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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 20, 2024 11:01:00 GMT -5
Rich Gannon spoke about this. Two things. First, he’s a product of Duke. Football intelligence is not Daniel Jones’ problem. And lastly, the Giants have not allowed him to change the play according to Rich. Was Gannon saying Jones isn't allowed to audible? Because that's not correct. Jones’ animated fourth-quarter exchange with QB coach Shea Tierney and head coach Brian Daboll, it turns out, happened because Jones changed offensive coordinator Mike Kafka’s play at the line and called his number for the go-ahead QB sneak touchdown.
Jones told the Daily News he saw a “good look” to plunge in from 1-yard out, rather than handing the ball off. And he was assuring Tierney and Daboll on the sideline afterward that he trusts what he sees.
www.nydailynews.com/2022/10/28/daniel-jones-audible-at-goal-line-fired-up-giants-qb-and-coaches/
Yes. That's what he said. It's sounded strange but his entire point was Jones has basically been playing with one arm tied behind his back.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 20, 2024 11:05:31 GMT -5
Playing at Duke doesn’t make someone football smart, I’d actually argue it hampers them or covers for their ineptitude based on their level of competition. Did you watch his senior year at Duke, he was constantly throwing into double and triple coverage, not checking down when he should have, not reading the defense…the same shit he still does. DJ may be a smart dude when it comes to non football subjects, he’s actually probably very smart, but I would trust most SEC, Big 12, Pac 10 QB’s football intelligence over a Duke QB, even if those other QB’s are dumb as a box of rocks off the field. Why do you think they haven’t let him change the play? Whenever someone questions a coaches decision related to a player, I always hear “the coaches know the players better than we do, they work with them every day”. Based on that logic, if anything, Dabs not letting him change the play only confirms he doesn’t trust DJ’s judgement and he does actually have a lower football IQ then his few supporters give him credit for. So True. I work with people that are credentialed from ivy league schools and very smart and are certified in various field of expertise. In a controlled environment these guys can digest information and pass tests. Now these same guys put in a real world situation where they have to make decision fail because they can't digest all the information in that situation fast enoughto respond with a solution. They freeze. It like the toilet desinger vs plumber. Knowing information and applying it are different. This board is filled with smart guys who know football. It is easy to make decsion for a GM or QB after the fact with information by talking head or ex players. Much harder to make a decision in real-time as a GM or coach or worse a QB during the ultimate chaotic situations during games. QBs that excel make chaotic sitiuations on the field thier home. Leaders learn how to be comfortable in umcomfortable environments. DJ very rarely looks comfortable on field to me. Everything looks laborious and robotic when he is under center. Yup, same in my line of work. We have people that promote to leadership positions because they are extremely book smart, study well and have great memories but some of them lose all their composure when the shit hits the fan in real life situations and common sense goes out the window. They then have to rely on their crew, who are under them, to bail their asses out on a regular basis. I’m sure hit happens in most lines of work, including the grid iron.
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 20, 2024 11:07:16 GMT -5
Was Gannon saying Jones isn't allowed to audible? Because that's not correct. Jones’ animated fourth-quarter exchange with QB coach Shea Tierney and head coach Brian Daboll, it turns out, happened because Jones changed offensive coordinator Mike Kafka’s play at the line and called his number for the go-ahead QB sneak touchdown.
Jones told the Daily News he saw a “good look” to plunge in from 1-yard out, rather than handing the ball off. And he was assuring Tierney and Daboll on the sideline afterward that he trusts what he sees.
www.nydailynews.com/2022/10/28/daniel-jones-audible-at-goal-line-fired-up-giants-qb-and-coaches/
Yes. That's what he said. It's sounded strange but his entire point was Jones has basically been playing with one arm tied behind his back.
Makes sense.. Since he looks like a player playing with one arm tied behind his back.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 20, 2024 11:08:49 GMT -5
I can totally relate to the reasons no longer mattering aspect to this. The fact is that the Giants and Jones tried and it just hasn’t worked out. From that aspect alone it seems like it may serve both parties well to go their separate ways. With that said, the Giants are tied to Jones for at least this year so he’s going to have this one last opportunity to prove himself. The Giants prioritized Oline in free agency so that bodes well no matter who’s behind center and my guess is they must prioritize WR and/or TE as well. I understand the thought here but I will throw this out(and get shit every time I do) , Simms didn't become the Simms we all love till Season 6 of his career after he was benched by the Coach we all love the year before. Yes Jones has to play well/better, the entire team does is my point. I get that as Phil's career is one of perseverance for sure.
The question is, do we believe in Daniel Jones as much as we believed in Phil? As much as I'd like to, I'm just not sure. I do see things about Daniel's game that frustrate the hell out of me.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 20, 2024 11:16:31 GMT -5
Was Gannon saying Jones isn't allowed to audible? Because that's not correct. Jones’ animated fourth-quarter exchange with QB coach Shea Tierney and head coach Brian Daboll, it turns out, happened because Jones changed offensive coordinator Mike Kafka’s play at the line and called his number for the go-ahead QB sneak touchdown.
Jones told the Daily News he saw a “good look” to plunge in from 1-yard out, rather than handing the ball off. And he was assuring Tierney and Daboll on the sideline afterward that he trusts what he sees.
www.nydailynews.com/2022/10/28/daniel-jones-audible-at-goal-line-fired-up-giants-qb-and-coaches/
Yes. That's what he said. It's sounded strange but his entire point was Jones has basically been playing with one arm tied behind his back.
I’ve always heard he wasn’t allowed to change plays either but don’t have confirmation. I wonder if this was a rare one time thing, seems odd that at the end of the article it’s almost like he’s not supposed to and was defending his decision to Tierney and Daboll by saying “he was assuring Tierney and Daboll on the sideline afterward that he trusts what he sees.” Either way, if he is allowed to change plays there’s way too many times he should have based on what the defense was showing. I’d almost give him a pass if he wasn’t allowed to change plays because far too often have we (the fans) and broadcasters see what the defense was doing before he hiked the ball and I’m not getting paid 40 million dollars to figure it out. The San Francisco game comes to mind when he got clobbered by the defender who was clearly going to blitz, if anything, he should have seen it coming and got rid of the ball. I remember watching Eli and Peyton during that game and Peyton was pretty critical but even Eli made a somewhat critical comment which he rarely does, especially towards DJ.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 20, 2024 11:36:01 GMT -5
Was Gannon saying Jones isn't allowed to audible? Because that's not correct. Jones’ animated fourth-quarter exchange with QB coach Shea Tierney and head coach Brian Daboll, it turns out, happened because Jones changed offensive coordinator Mike Kafka’s play at the line and called his number for the go-ahead QB sneak touchdown.
Jones told the Daily News he saw a “good look” to plunge in from 1-yard out, rather than handing the ball off. And he was assuring Tierney and Daboll on the sideline afterward that he trusts what he sees.
www.nydailynews.com/2022/10/28/daniel-jones-audible-at-goal-line-fired-up-giants-qb-and-coaches/
Yes. That's what he said. It's sounded strange but his entire point was Jones has basically been playing with one arm tied behind his back.
I don't doubt you, I'm just pointing out that his information is clearly wrong. Maybe it's situational, but there were plenty of times where Jones has changed the play. Hell, we even know Taylor was allowed to change plays. The goal line play at Buffalo was an infamous example.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 20, 2024 11:36:04 GMT -5
For years there have been reasons why DJ hasn’t performed to draft expectations. I think a lot of those reasons have been valid. I’ve always rooted for DJ and have wanted him to have the opportunities to be what he was suppose to be. But it’s 2024 and we’re now at the point that the team needs to move on from DJ regardless of whether he’s been given a fair situation to perform in or not. I supported JS and Dabs basically operating as if DJ’s first two years with them were the only two years that mattered. But in 2024 he’s a scary injury risk. He can’t claim unfamiliarity with the playbook or an offence ill designed for his skill set, you reach a point that the reasons why no longer matter. I can totally relate to the reasons no longer mattering aspect to this. The fact is that the Giants and Jones tried and it just hasn’t worked out. From that aspect alone it seems like it may serve both parties well to go their separate ways. With that said, the Giants are tied to Jones for at least this year so he’s going to have this one last opportunity to prove himself. The Giants prioritized Oline in free agency so that bodes well no matter who’s behind center and my guess is they must prioritize WR and/or TE as well. . Their thought process (my opinion): 1. We’re not picking up the 5th year. We have to see who he is. 2. So that’s a better year than he’s had since his rookie season, he handled to spotlight and won a playoff game, and we really didn’t give him anyone to throw too. 3. This negotiation isn’t what we wanted, but he got better with us and it’s not crazy to think he could improve again with more targets and a 2nd year in this system. But he may not so we need an out in case this goes to shit. 4. So that’s not what we expected to see but his games were with the worst version of our o for the entire season. Things improved when SB and Thomas came back. Regardless, an ACL and another neck injury, even if he plays great can he stay healthy? We have him in 24’ no matter what but we’re going to need legit options based on health alone. Logical to me.
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mendy
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Posts: 3,946
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Post by mendy on Apr 20, 2024 14:09:17 GMT -5
I understand the thought here but I will throw this out(and get shit every time I do) , Simms didn't become the Simms we all love till Season 6 of his career after he was benched by the Coach we all love the year before. Yes Jones has to play well/better, the entire team does is my point. I get that as Phil's career is one of perseverance for sure.
The question is, do we believe in Daniel Jones as much as we believed in Phil? As much as I'd like to, I'm just not sure. I do see things about Daniel's game that frustrate the hell out of me.
That's my point, we didn't believe in Phil then, he had been benched. Parcel's said it was the biggest mistake he ever made.
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Post by Bigjeep on Apr 20, 2024 18:03:37 GMT -5
Jones is not the long term answer! He's had his chances! It's time for a change!
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Post by ocgiant on Apr 20, 2024 19:01:47 GMT -5
So is it...
Those that are willing to give up draft picks, so the Giants jump ahead on JJ, Daniels or Maye for the QB of the future or
Those that sit tight and pick a stud WR1, then maybe wheel and deal for a QB in Round 2
Or trade with Denver for a future first-round pick (they will suck so high pick), CB Patrick Surtain II and the round one 12th selection this year take a WR in a deep class or BPA, then the Giants could still get a QB & 2 first round picks in '25. Now the Giants have a defense with a stud CB tandem to go with a stout DL all of a sudden the Giant's D is freaking exciting to watch. This would be a heck of a draft day option who knows...
Cannot wait for the post draft "angst" that be flyin' around here.
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Post by Nite on Apr 20, 2024 19:27:51 GMT -5
Shure....
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 20, 2024 22:04:59 GMT -5
I get that as Phil's career is one of perseverance for sure.
The question is, do we believe in Daniel Jones as much as we believed in Phil? As much as I'd like to, I'm just not sure. I do see things about Daniel's game that frustrate the hell out of me.
That's my point, we didn't believe in Phil then, he had been benched. Parcel's said it was the biggest mistake he ever made.
Ok, but while you may have been among the fans that didn't believe in Simms, I wasn't one of them.
I "knew" Parcells ****ed up. I remember saving Giants articles back then and Dave Anderson's 'Parcells, you picked the wrong man' was one of them.
But just because I happened to believe in Phil when folks like yourself admittedly didn't, doesn't mean I blindly support every Giants QB or player for that matter. It's all a matter of what you see in that player.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 20, 2024 22:06:23 GMT -5
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Post by fifthavephil on Apr 20, 2024 23:50:13 GMT -5
Danny and the Dreamers Danny and the Juniors
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mendy
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Posts: 3,946
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Post by mendy on Apr 21, 2024 4:26:45 GMT -5
That's my point, we didn't believe in Phil then, he had been benched. Parcel's said it was the biggest mistake he ever made.
Ok, but while you may have been among the fans that didn't believe in Simms, I wasn't one of them.
I "knew" Parcells ****ed up. I remember saving Giants articles back then and Dave Anderson's 'Parcells, you picked the wrong man' was one of them.
But just because I happened to believe in Phil when folks like yourself admittedly didn't, doesn't mean I blindly support every Giants QB or player for that matter. It's all a matter of what you see in that player.
Never said I was one of the non believers but back then Phil did have an injury history.
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Post by inthezone on Apr 21, 2024 6:14:42 GMT -5
The biggest issues with Jones have been his inability to understand where the blitz is coming which does make it seem like he doesn't understand what the defense is doing. I don't even know if he changes the plays to match up with what the defense is showing but without that the offense isn't putting the players in the best position to succeed and the results are what we've witnessed these past few years. Basically I don't think it matters how good his physical skills are if he can't understand what the defenses are throwing at him meaning he can be shut down which we have also seen makes it easy to defend even by rookie CBs. Rich Gannon spoke about this. Two things. First, he’s a product of Duke. Football intelligence is not Daniel Jones’ problem. And lastly, the Giants have not allowed him to change the play according to Rich. How is this not an issue? The game is all about match ups and that is done at the line of scrimmage.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 21, 2024 7:48:38 GMT -5
Jones is not the long term answer! He's had his chances! It's time for a change!
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