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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 20:23:30 GMT -5
I'm not so sure how Gettleman, Shurmur, et al knew what they had in Webb going into the draft. "You don't really know until a backup actually plays a whole game. Even then it takes a while for acclimation to the regular season" Exactly my point. He could have had 8 games of experience under his belt. Which would have given the new regime significant film to study and shape their philosophy. Well they have just as much college film on him as they do the others who were drafted this year. Webb's film looks just as good if not better than any of them. Plus they have a little bit of preseason film on him from last summer as well. I know what you're saying but it's relatively the same scenario.
People really let the media get them all hyped up for the latest group of QB's (not saying you, I just mean generally speaking). They have to so people keep tuning into their programming for draft coverage. If they just said "overall this group of QB's just isn't that great, it looks like they'll all turn out to be busts aside from maybe one of them" it would lose interest for many people at a time when very little is going on in football related media; the talking heads just need something to talk about and a lot of fans are hoping their team can get one of those nice shiny new top QB prospects. The medias job is to create the perception that almost every draft class is 2004 all over again, especially as guys such as Eli are going to retire within the next 3-5 years and they are the faces of the NFL and will go down as legends.
It's understandable but the majority of them turn out to be a Mark Sanchez or worse. If one of those QB's from this past draft class turns into a 10-15 year franchise QB then that's great for the entertainment of those fans but it really won't make me feel any different on how the Giants drafted this off-season.
I was fully on board with not being sold on any of the top 4 QBs in this year's draft. Just ask @bronxpinstripes... he and I discussed it ad naseum.
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Post by nick030567 on Jun 6, 2018 20:34:34 GMT -5
Well they have just as much college film on him as they do the others who were drafted this year. Webb's film looks just as good if not better than any of them. Plus they have a little bit of preseason film on him from last summer as well. I know what you're saying but it's relatively the same scenario.
People really let the media get them all hyped up for the latest group of QB's (not saying you, I just mean generally speaking). They have to so people keep tuning into their programming for draft coverage. If they just said "overall this group of QB's just isn't that great, it looks like they'll all turn out to be busts aside from maybe one of them" it would lose interest for many people at a time when very little is going on in football related media; the talking heads just need something to talk about and a lot of fans are hoping their team can get one of those nice shiny new top QB prospects. The medias job is to create the perception that almost every draft class is 2004 all over again, especially as guys such as Eli are going to retire within the next 3-5 years and they are the faces of the NFL and will go down as legends.
It's understandable but the majority of them turn out to be a Mark Sanchez or worse. If one of those QB's from this past draft class turns into a 10-15 year franchise QB then that's great for the entertainment of those fans but it really won't make me feel any different on how the Giants drafted this off-season.
I was fully on board with not being sold on any of the top 4 QBs in this year's draft. Just ask @bronxpinstripes ... he and I discussed it ad naseum. Well I did say not you, I was speaking generally. We're both in the same boat then. I personally (but of course we'll have to see) think this years QB class was empty hype. I just don't see any of them becoming nfl legends or truly reliable franchise QB's, Maybe one of them but I don't think it's one of those years where you can't go wrong, opposed to 2004 where you couldn't go wrong with Rivers, Ben or Eli as players. But I felt that most of the football media was essentially hyping them as can't miss prospects that will all pan out as franchise QB's. Even if I'm wrong I don't think that will determine how good of a team the Giants are moving forward.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 20:36:52 GMT -5
I was fully on board with not being sold on any of the top 4 QBs in this year's draft. Just ask @bronxpinstripes ... he and I discussed it ad naseum. Well I did say not you, I was speaking generally. We're both in the same boat then. I personally (but of course we'll have to see) think this years QB class was empty hype. I just don't see any of them becoming nfl legends or truly reliable franchise QB's, Maybe one of them but I don't think it's one of those years where you can't go wrong, similar to 2004 where you couldn't go wrong with Rivers, Ben or Eli as players. But I felt that most of the football media was essentially hyping them as can't miss prospects that will all pan out as franchise QB's. Even if I'm wrong I don't think that will determine how good of a team the Giants are moving forward.
No, I know. I just just reiterating my stance because I'm still getting familiar with everyone in this community.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 21:00:12 GMT -5
The draft QB with the 2nd pick crowd is under the impression that if any 1 of the 4 QB become franchise QB, then the Giants made a HUGE mistake. Completely flawed logic. #1- Baker Mayfield was selected first so that leaves us with selecting 1 of 3 QB. So if one of the 3 remaining QB becomes legit franchise QB, that gives us just a 33% chance of selecting the correct one. That's a ridiculously low percentage to take a chance on with the #2 pick with a potential all pro RB sitting right there for the taking. Now if all 3 remaining QB become all pro caliber then you can actually argue the Giants may have swung and foul tipped on this pick. Lets say Rosen becomes the best of the bunch and it's not even close. Does this mean the Giants missed out on him more than the Jets, Browns and Buffalo? Not even close. These teams will be kicking themselves in the head for selecting the inferior QB. If Barkley becomes all pro, then it really didn't hurt the Giants at all. Most of the draft QB crowd wanted any of the 4 QB over Barkley. But DG wanted the sure thing with the pick instead and not the shiny object. This logic makes no sense That’s cool. Have yet to feel otherwise with you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 22:37:57 GMT -5
I'm not so sure how Gettleman, Shurmur, et al knew what they had in Webb going into the draft. "You don't really know until a backup actually plays a whole game. Even then it takes a while for acclimation to the regular season" Exactly my point. He could have had 8 games of experience under his belt. Which would have given the new regime significant film to study and shape their philosophy. Well they have just as much college film on him as they do the others who were drafted this year. Webb's film looks just as good if not better than any of them. So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks?
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Post by Fletch842 on Jun 7, 2018 6:34:15 GMT -5
As long as Barkley is a success, who cares how the QB's do. There can be reasonable scenarios where one or more of the QB's turn into franchise guys, and Barkley becomes a great back and helps us to SB Win #5!! Defining "success/successful" gets very subjective in these types of discussions. Out of curiosity what's your take on what it would take for Barkley to be successful and/or a success? I agree that defining success is quite subjective, and has numerous answers. Personally, I'm looking for him to reassert our running game, forcing defenses to play closer to the line, opening things up for guys like Odell and Engram, at least in the short term. Ultimately, I'd like to see him play in the realm that Tiki got to under TC (this is a very high watermark, but for a #2 pick is not unreasonable to me).
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Post by Speedman on Jun 7, 2018 7:42:46 GMT -5
Well they have just as much college film on him as they do the others who were drafted this year. Webb's film looks just as good if not better than any of them. So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks? Webb may turn out to be a bargain.
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Post by nick030567 on Jun 7, 2018 8:37:06 GMT -5
Well they have just as much college film on him as they do the others who were drafted this year. Webb's film looks just as good if not better than any of them. So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks? Might be overlooked because of where he played. He only had one season at Cal, and the other three were with teams that weren't very reputable. Maybe even the fact that the teams he was on weren't all that great. Imagine if Eli wasn't a Manning, do you think being on those Ole Miss teams would've gotten him enough recognition to be drafted 1st overall? Ole Miss Qb's typically aren't drafted too high. Eli probably would've been a round 2 or 3 selection. The top Qb's are usual on some of the best teams with some of the biggest names such as USC (and look how their Qb's turn out, terrible). Scouts and teams constantly make mistakes all the time and go for those flashy prospects because they are on a good team which makes them also look better than they might be. It obviously makes scouts interested and likewise picking one of those guys makes their fan base pleased and gives the fans some hope to get hyped up with. It gets them to buy new merch and fills their stadium for at least the first half of the season. Scouts and GM's make mistakes all the time. Just because they're so called "experts" doesn't mean i'm going to follow them without question. They aren't gods they're freaking football scouts and most of them aren't too bright.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 8:42:44 GMT -5
Well they have just as much college film on him as they do the others who were drafted this year. Webb's film looks just as good if not better than any of them. So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks? It’s the same reason why Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24 and Alex Smith #1 overall. The same reason why Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round. Same reason why Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, etc were all picked in the top 10, 5 or #1 overall... ...because GMs are fallible.
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Post by Fletch842 on Jun 7, 2018 8:52:17 GMT -5
So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks? It’s the same reason why Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24 and Alex Smith #1 overall. The same reason why Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round. Same reason why Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, etc were all picked in the top 10, 5 or #1 overall... ...because GMs are fallible. except for DG!!!
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Post by nick030567 on Jun 7, 2018 9:15:49 GMT -5
So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks? It’s the same reason why Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24 and Alex Smith #1 overall. The same reason why Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round. Same reason why Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, etc were all picked in the top 10, 5 or #1 overall... ...because GMs are fallible. Exactly! And just like I said above most of those "top prospects" or soon to be Hall of Famers played for the big name universities on really good teams. Where did Rodgers play? Oh that's right, Cal, just like Webb lol. An overlooked team. In addition where did Wilson play? North Carolina State University. Another team that isn't a real flashy big name football program for QBs outside of Rivers. Typically these days it seems that You either have to play for a flashy university, one of the teams in the big bowl game or have some crazy athleticism to be ranked high by the "experts." And I think that this is becoming much more prevalent as the years pass.
What team with dire Qb needs and the fear of fans not packing their stadiums for the first half of the season (or any part of the season) was going to choose Davis Webb? He's not a big name QB, and didn't play on any good teams. He only played at Cal one season and prior to that played at the lowly (in prospects eyes) texas tech.
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Post by Fletch842 on Jun 7, 2018 9:55:52 GMT -5
It’s the same reason why Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24 and Alex Smith #1 overall. The same reason why Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round. Same reason why Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, etc were all picked in the top 10, 5 or #1 overall... ...because GMs are fallible. Exactly! And just like I said above most of those "top prospects" or soon to be Hall of Famers played for the big name universities on really good teams. Where did Rodgers play? Oh that's right, Cal, just like Webb lol. An overlooked team. In addition where did Wilson play? North Carolina State University. Another team that isn't a real flashy big name football program for QBs outside of Rivers. Typically these days it seems that You either have to play for a flashy university, one of the teams in the big bowl game or have some crazy athleticism to be ranked high by the "experts." And I think that this is becoming much more prevalent as the years pass.
What team with dire Qb needs and the fear of fans not packing their stadiums for the first half of the season (or any part of the season) was going to choose Davis Webb? He's not a big name QB, and didn't play on any good teams. He only played at Cal one season and prior to that played at the lowly (in prospects eyes) texas tech.
I think Wilson went to Wisconsin, not NCSU but your point is well taken.
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Post by nick030567 on Jun 7, 2018 10:38:32 GMT -5
Exactly! And just like I said above most of those "top prospects" or soon to be Hall of Famers played for the big name universities on really good teams. Where did Rodgers play? Oh that's right, Cal, just like Webb lol. An overlooked team. In addition where did Wilson play? North Carolina State University. Another team that isn't a real flashy big name football program for QBs outside of Rivers. Typically these days it seems that You either have to play for a flashy university, one of the teams in the big bowl game or have some crazy athleticism to be ranked high by the "experts." And I think that this is becoming much more prevalent as the years pass.
What team with dire Qb needs and the fear of fans not packing their stadiums for the first half of the season (or any part of the season) was going to choose Davis Webb? He's not a big name QB, and didn't play on any good teams. He only played at Cal one season and prior to that played at the lowly (in prospects eyes) texas tech.
I think Wilson went to Wisconsin, not NCSU but your point is well taken. You're right about that, I was mistaken
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 10:43:51 GMT -5
Pretty sure he started at NCSU and played his last season at Wisconsin.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 11:29:34 GMT -5
So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks? Webb may turn out to be a bargain. ...or, he may turn out to be the next Ryan Nassib.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 11:31:29 GMT -5
So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks? Might be overlooked because of where he played. He only had one season at Cal, and the other three were with teams that weren't very reputable. Maybe even the fact that the teams he was on weren't all that great. Imagine if Eli wasn't a Manning, do you think being on those Ole Miss teams would've gotten him enough recognition to be drafted 1st overall? Ole Miss Qb's typically aren't drafted too high. Eli probably would've been a round 2 or 3 selection. The top Qb's are usual on some of the best teams with some of the biggest names such as USC (and look how their Qb's turn out, terrible). Scouts and teams constantly make mistakes all the time and go for those flashy prospects because they are on a good team which makes them also look better than they might be. It obviously makes scouts interested and likewise picking one of those guys makes their fan base pleased and gives the fans some hope to get hyped up with. It gets them to buy new merch and fills their stadium for at least the first half of the season. Scouts and GM's make mistakes all the time. Just because they're so called "experts" doesn't mean i'm going to follow them without question. They aren't gods they're freaking football scouts and most of them aren't too bright. Yeah, I guess not everybody can play quarterback at a football powerhouse like Wyoming.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 11:42:26 GMT -5
So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks? It’s the same reason why Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24 and Alex Smith #1 overall. The same reason why Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round. Same reason why Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, etc were all picked in the top 10, 5 or #1 overall... ...because GMs are fallible. Except there's a difference between a first-round bust and a lower-round "gem". On the first-round bust, only one GM made a mistake. It's understandable. On a low-round "gem", 32 GMs made a mistake. A LOT less likely.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 11:44:50 GMT -5
It’s the same reason why Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24 and Alex Smith #1 overall. The same reason why Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round. Same reason why Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, etc were all picked in the top 10, 5 or #1 overall... ...because GMs are fallible. Exactly! And just like I said above most of those "top prospects" or soon to be Hall of Famers played for the big name universities on really good teams. Where did Rodgers play? Oh that's right, Cal, just like Webb lol. An overlooked team. In addition where did Wilson play? North Carolina State University. Another team that isn't a real flashy big name football program for QBs outside of Rivers. Typically these days it seems that You either have to play for a flashy university, one of the teams in the big bowl game or have some crazy athleticism to be ranked high by the "experts." And I think that this is becoming much more prevalent as the years pass.
What team with dire Qb needs and the fear of fans not packing their stadiums for the first half of the season (or any part of the season) was going to choose Davis Webb? He's not a big name QB, and didn't play on any good teams. He only played at Cal one season and prior to that played at the lowly (in prospects eyes) texas tech.
I don't know if you ever heard of Webb's predecessor at Cal, but he was a #1 overall pick. Kind of blows a hole in your conspiracy theory, don't you think? Read more: thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/149/flawed-draft-logic?page=4#ixzz5Hl67Pomf
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Post by nick030567 on Jun 7, 2018 13:07:33 GMT -5
Exactly! And just like I said above most of those "top prospects" or soon to be Hall of Famers played for the big name universities on really good teams. Where did Rodgers play? Oh that's right, Cal, just like Webb lol. An overlooked team. In addition where did Wilson play? North Carolina State University. Another team that isn't a real flashy big name football program for QBs outside of Rivers. Typically these days it seems that You either have to play for a flashy university, one of the teams in the big bowl game or have some crazy athleticism to be ranked high by the "experts." And I think that this is becoming much more prevalent as the years pass.
What team with dire Qb needs and the fear of fans not packing their stadiums for the first half of the season (or any part of the season) was going to choose Davis Webb? He's not a big name QB, and didn't play on any good teams. He only played at Cal one season and prior to that played at the lowly (in prospects eyes) texas tech.
I don't know if you ever heard of Webb's predecessor at Cal, but he was a #1 overall pick. Kind of blows a hole in your conspiracy theory, don't you think? Read more: thegiantsboard.proboards.com/thread/149/flawed-draft-logic?page=4#ixzz5Hl67PomfGotta love that CIA created term conspiracy theory lol. But using conspiracy theory does allow you to discredit people real easily without actually taking a closer at what they're saying. Look most of what I said is pretty accurate. I didn't say that's the way it goes all the time, I said typically. Meaning often but not always. I believe I did include athletic freaks such as Lamar Jackson. And there are those instances where a QB that was involved with a less prestigious program will be ranked high, I wasn't being an absolutist. I also stated that Webb played one season at Cal, which is probably a more reputable program than many universtities. In addition he played his previous at Texas Tech and statistically those seasons don't look that awe inspiring. That doesn't give most scouts enough confidence to draft someone in the first round. I also stated that how the TEAM the Qb was on performs for the season probably has some weight on how high a QB is ranked. My general premise is that the media hypes up every QB draft class and thus for many it steers their perception on that draft class, especially when you believe your team needs a QB.
The thing is that most of those who are agreeing with my general opinion are just stating that they don't believe the melodramatic and short sighted narrative that not drafting one of the QB's out of this years draft will harm the Giants irreparably. There will be future drafts with other good QB prospects. Not any of us (from what I've seen, could be wrong)have stated that Webb will be the starter. or that Webb will be great. Just that (which is totally realistic and rational) he has just as much of a chance to succeed as any of the Qb's taken out of this years first round. It's on him as to whether he manifests himself as a starting QB when given the opportunity. He has to be mentally prepared and back it up with the physical attributes that he already has.
Just look up the guys highlights and other game film, he really looks quite good. Basically just as good with his arm as any of the top ranked prospects for THIS years draft, I wasn't referring to last years or 2016s draft. He Fits the ball in tight spaces down the field, accurate, strong arm, pretty good mobility in the pocket and pretty quick on his feet. Generally always looks comfortable and confident. He's a good prospect and has all the tools, he just has to continue to improve. He just wasn't a flashy prospect and he didn't play on good enough teams to raise his ranking.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 13:25:28 GMT -5
It’s the same reason why Aaron Rodgers was drafted 24 and Alex Smith #1 overall. The same reason why Wilson was drafted in the 3rd round. Same reason why Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, Matt Leinert, Mark Sanchez, Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, Rick Mirer, etc were all picked in the top 10, 5 or #1 overall... ...because GMs are fallible. Except there's a difference between a first-round bust and a lower-round "gem". On the first-round bust, only one GM made a mistake. It's understandable. On a low-round "gem", 32 GMs made a mistake. A LOT less likely. Fair point. I wonder what the comparison of the cumulative first round "busts" to the mid-late (3rd round and later) gems is.
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Post by TCHOF on Jun 7, 2018 13:25:30 GMT -5
So, if that's the case, then...why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks? Might be overlooked because of where he played. He only had one season at Cal, and the other three were with teams that weren't very reputable. Maybe even the fact that the teams he was on weren't all that great. Imagine if Eli wasn't a Manning, do you think being on those Ole Miss teams would've gotten him enough recognition to be drafted 1st overall? Ole Miss Qb's typically aren't drafted too high. Eli probably would've been a round 2 or 3 selection. The top Qb's are usual on some of the best teams with some of the biggest names such as USC (and look how their Qb's turn out, terrible). Scouts and teams constantly make mistakes all the time and go for those flashy prospects because they are on a good team which makes them also look better than they might be. It obviously makes scouts interested and likewise picking one of those guys makes their fan base pleased and gives the fans some hope to get hyped up with. It gets them to buy new merch and fills their stadium for at least the first half of the season. Scouts and GM's make mistakes all the time. Just because they're so called "experts" doesn't mean i'm going to follow them without question. They aren't gods they're freaking football scouts and most of them aren't too bright. Yeah, I don’t see this at all.
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Post by GameTime on Jun 7, 2018 13:49:16 GMT -5
Any player drafted on any other team has zero bearing on what that player would have been if he were a NYG. Hindsight with this mean nothing. Holding the Giants responsible for the success or failure of player they never drafted makes for good conversation but it means nothing in reality
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Post by nick030567 on Jun 7, 2018 13:54:40 GMT -5
Might be overlooked because of where he played. He only had one season at Cal, and the other three were with teams that weren't very reputable. Maybe even the fact that the teams he was on weren't all that great. Imagine if Eli wasn't a Manning, do you think being on those Ole Miss teams would've gotten him enough recognition to be drafted 1st overall? Ole Miss Qb's typically aren't drafted too high. Eli probably would've been a round 2 or 3 selection. The top Qb's are usual on some of the best teams with some of the biggest names such as USC (and look how their Qb's turn out, terrible). Scouts and teams constantly make mistakes all the time and go for those flashy prospects because they are on a good team which makes them also look better than they might be. It obviously makes scouts interested and likewise picking one of those guys makes their fan base pleased and gives the fans some hope to get hyped up with. It gets them to buy new merch and fills their stadium for at least the first half of the season. Scouts and GM's make mistakes all the time. Just because they're so called "experts" doesn't mean i'm going to follow them without question. They aren't gods they're freaking football scouts and most of them aren't too bright. Yeah, I don’t see this at all. Well thats not surprising
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 13:56:48 GMT -5
Any player drafted on any other team has zero bearing on what that player would have been if he were a NYG. Hindsight with this mean nothing. Holding the Giants responsible for the success or failure of player they never drafted makes for good conversation but it means nothing in reality If Lauletta turns out to be better than Mayfield, Darnold, Allen or Rosen would you agree the Giants got great value and hit a home run with that draft pick?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 14:24:15 GMT -5
Gotta love that CIA created term conspiracy theory lol. But using conspiracy theory does allow you to discredit people real easily without actually taking a closer at what they're saying. Look most of what I said is pretty accurate. I didn't say that's the way it goes all the time, I said typically. Meaning often but not always. I believe I did include athletic freaks such as Lamar Jackson. And there are those instances where a QB that was involved with a less prestigious program will be ranked high, I wasn't being an absolutist. I also stated that Webb played one season at Cal, which is probably a more reputable program than many universtities. In addition he played his previous at Texas Tech and statistically those seasons don't look that awe inspiring. That doesn't give most scouts enough confidence to draft someone in the first round. I also stated that how the TEAM the Qb was on performs for the season probably has some weight on how high a QB is ranked. My general premise is that the media hypes up every QB draft class and thus for many it steers their perception on that draft class, especially when you believe your team needs a QB.
The thing is that most of those who are agreeing with my general opinion are just stating that they don't believe the melodramatic and short sighted narrative that not drafting one of the QB's out of this years draft will harm the Giants irreparably. There will be future drafts with other good QB prospects. Not any of us (from what I've seen, could be wrong)have stated that Webb will be the starter. or that Webb will be great. Just that (which is totally realistic and rational) he has just as much of a chance to succeed as any of the Qb's taken out of this years first round. It's on him as to whether he manifests himself as a starting QB when given the opportunity. He has to be mentally prepared and back it up with the physical attributes that he already has.
Just look up the guys highlights and other game film, he really looks quite good. Basically just as good with his arm as any of the top ranked prospects for THIS years draft, I wasn't referring to last years or 2016s draft. He Fits the ball in tight spaces down the field, accurate, strong arm, pretty good mobility in the pocket and pretty quick on his feet. Generally always looks comfortable and confident. He's a good prospect and has all the tools, he just has to continue to improve. He just wasn't a flashy prospect and he didn't play on good enough teams to raise his ranking.
This all began with me asking, "Why was Davis Webb drafted in the late-third round while the others were all grabbed in the first 10 picks?". The only possibility you suggested was a bias (I won't use the term "conspiracy theory" since it seems to bother you) against Webb because he played at Cal. Of course, there IS another possibility...that NFL scouts just saw something in Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and Wyoming's Josh Allen that they didn't see in Webb. And if that's the case, then it's something that all 32 NFL GMs appeared to see. Let me ask you something. Do you think that if Josh Allen, for example, was still on the board at #34 when the Giants picked again that Gettleman would have taken him? I do. I - and many others - would think him an absolute fool if he didn't. So, what does that tell you? Would Gettleman use a 2nd-round pick on a guy he thought had no better chance of success than a late-third rounder he already has on his roster? You may think that the first-rounders have no better chance of success than does Davis Webb. But the statistics don't back up your assertion. I don't really want to trot out the numbers I used to show this over at TAGF, but I can if you want me to. Btw, I can't help but point out that you explained the origins of the term "conspiracy theory" by introducing another conspiracy theory (that the CIA foisted the term on us, presumably to cover their own nefarious activities). Good stuff
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 14:30:26 GMT -5
Any player drafted on any other team has zero bearing on what that player would have been if he were a NYG. Hindsight with this mean nothing. Holding the Giants responsible for the success or failure of player they never drafted makes for good conversation but it means nothing in reality If Lauletta turns out to be better than Mayfield, Darnold, Allen or Rosen would you agree the Giants got great value and hit a home run with that draft pick? If he turns out to be better than one of them? Or, all of them?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 14:42:47 GMT -5
If Lauletta turns out to be better than Mayfield, Darnold, Allen or Rosen would you agree the Giants got great value and hit a home run with that draft pick? If he turns out to be better than one of them? Or, all of them? One of them. Two of them. Three of them. All of them. Or if he turns out to be just as good/productive than one of them. Two of them. Three of them. All of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 15:24:48 GMT -5
If he turns out to be better than one of them? Or, all of them? One of them. Two of them. Three of them. All of them. Or if he turns out to be just as good/productive than one of them. Two of them. Three of them. All of them. If he turns out better than one of them, then...no. Maybe one of them turns out to be putrid, and Lauletta's only slightly less putrid. If he turns out better than ALL of them, then...yes, clearly he would have been a great value. But that's not likely to happen. Also, if my Aunt Joan had a beard she'd be my Uncle Ed
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Post by GameTime on Jun 7, 2018 15:34:15 GMT -5
Any player drafted on any other team has zero bearing on what that player would have been if he were a NYG. Hindsight with this mean nothing. Holding the Giants responsible for the success or failure of player they never drafted makes for good conversation but it means nothing in reality If Lauletta turns out to be better than Mayfield, Darnold, Allen or Rosen would you agree the Giants got great value and hit a home run with that draft pick? Of course because he was drafted by the NYGS.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 15:38:46 GMT -5
One of them. Two of them. Three of them. All of them. Or if he turns out to be just as good/productive than one of them. Two of them. Three of them. All of them. If he turns out better than one of them, then...no. Maybe one of them turns out to be putrid, and Lauletta's only slightly less putrid. If he turns out better than ALL of them, then...yes, clearly he would have been a great value. But that's not likely to happen. Also, if my Aunt Joan had a beard she'd be my Uncle Ed It’s simple to me: if Lauletta turns out to be a starter we hit a home run and got great value for him. And I’ll be glad we didn’t waste a #2 overall pick on a QB. If only we didn’t draft a RB... A question specifically catered to you: what if he turns out to be just as good as Allen?
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