|
Post by thetruth on Jan 7, 2020 18:37:17 GMT -5
No one wants to answer that question I believe it. There was rumors of this not long ago, and odd that his time in Carolina which was met with good winning seasons ended with being fired after only 4 years. It’s all speculation but I would not be shocked if this has truth to it. And if this is true we have a major problem in our organization. Yup, but we already knew that.
|
|
|
Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 7, 2020 18:55:58 GMT -5
BJ Hill might not have sacks but has played pretty good. Carter is playing all over the defense and had another 5 sack season .Hernandez is fine these are second year players that will get better, add that to what you just listed. Both drafts were productive the first one was tougher didn't even have a full year to prepare and dealt with the Cancer for 7 months. Think it will be even better this year. This ship wasn't turning on a dime. It's now year 3 of the new GM regime though. What are your expectations for the season? This rebuild should be in full swing. Real progress should be made. The team STILL has an OL problem and there are still a ton of holes to fill. You feel good about it? OL needs to get better but the QB needs to get the ball out they went from the bottom to middle of the pack I expect them to start winning.
|
|
|
Post by Delicreep on Jan 7, 2020 18:59:47 GMT -5
Good story, except that Rhule gave the Giants a chance to match the Panthers' offer and the Giants declined.
The offer wasn't all financial. Rhule wanted more power in selecting personnel. He wasn't going to get that. As per Ben Allbright Understandable...now help me take the leap that it was DG that he didn't want any part of. If he had an offer for 60 million AND personnel control from the Panthers, doesn't it make sense for him to ask the same of the Giants?
|
|
|
Post by jmike on Jan 7, 2020 20:05:03 GMT -5
Well first off we have some future hope at the QB position, so that alone makes us better off. There are other reasons. But my answer originally was simply referring to the reality that all people will not agree on the same opinion of the status of the team.
Head coach's impact is much more immediate that the general manager's. If it was just the losing with Shurmur, he likely wouldn't and shouldn't have been fired. It was the way he was losing and repeating same errors in judgement.
|
|
|
Post by cruzsoldier on Jan 8, 2020 0:16:28 GMT -5
Who leaked this story about Rhule trying to match? Was it someone in the Giants organization or Rhule himself? You know, there is a ton of value in public relations. Evidenced here. No one knows the truth, sadly. However, our resident insider YAtitle mentioned that coaches didn't want to sign with the Giants. quite simply because of Gettlemen. If history has taught me anything, its that YA generally has some pretty good sources in that building. People believe whatever narrative they want to believe. Gettleman has been accused of being a liar by the players publicly and he has said things that have been dishonest ask Eli “ years left” Manning or Odell “didn’t sign him to trade him” Beckham. Gettleman has been full of it since he’s been here and quite frankly this team is looking like another dumpster fire heading into next year. Hiring a HC with no experience is probably going to be an excuse Gettleman will use to save his job next year.
|
|
|
Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Jan 8, 2020 1:15:42 GMT -5
Can we all agree we are no better off than we were 3 years ago. Gettleman should have been shit canned with Shurmur Now if this new hc is a bust we got to find a new gm and new hc No, they are much better than they were 3 years ago....and one would have to be totally clueless to think otherwise. If you think we have our QB of the future you’re right. But I do agree that if we were going to fire Shurmur Gettleman should’ve been shown the door too. And this is coming from a guy that like how Dave has drafted
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on May 15, 2020 6:42:13 GMT -5
Welp, add trading up for DeAndre Baker who obviously had character concerns coming out of college to the list now...
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on May 15, 2020 7:21:54 GMT -5
Who leaked this story about Rhule trying to match? Was it someone in the Giants organization or Rhule himself? You know, there is a ton of value in public relations. Evidenced here. No one knows the truth, sadly. However, our resident insider YAtitle mentioned that coaches didn't want to sign with the Giants. quite simply because of Gettlemen. If history has taught me anything, its that YA generally has some pretty good sources in that building. If anything is true on these boards, that would be it.
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on May 15, 2020 7:24:15 GMT -5
Hey, I have been generally supportive of DG but more than willing to point out his swings and misses. JR was the worst imo with a Deandre Baker situation just about every year. That has nothing to do however with DGs misses piling up. His thin ice has a layer of water developing on top as we speak.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on May 15, 2020 8:01:29 GMT -5
Welp, add trading up for DeAndre Baker who obviously had character concerns coming out of college to the list now... He got a Kings ransom for OBJ IMO but this Baker situation is a different matter altogether. This is on the level of getting kicked in the nuts with metal tipped boots.....
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on May 15, 2020 8:20:17 GMT -5
Welp, add trading up for DeAndre Baker who obviously had character concerns coming out of college to the list now... Certainly doesn't help his "batting average", which Mara said had to get better.....
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on May 15, 2020 8:28:13 GMT -5
Welp, add trading up for DeAndre Baker who obviously had character concerns coming out of college to the list now... He got a Kings ransom for OBJ IMO but this Baker situation is a different matter altogether. This is on the level of getting kicked in the nuts with metal tipped boots..... Agree to disagree about the value returned in Odell being traded. As my thread pointed out the other day, Odell was easily the best WR we ever had. 3 of his seasons here were top 10 seasons all time for a WR for the Giants. It was completely mismanaged. "I didnt just give him an extension to trade him." I would expect 2 first rounders for a player of his caliber. Or at least 1 top 10. We paid him $14m to play for the Browns last year by the way.
|
|
|
Post by hadenough on May 15, 2020 8:35:39 GMT -5
He got a Kings ransom for OBJ IMO but this Baker situation is a different matter altogether. This is on the level of getting kicked in the nuts with metal tipped boots..... Agree to disagree about the value returned in Odell being traded. As my thread pointed out the other day, Odell was easily the best WR we ever had. 3 of his seasons here were top 10 seasons all time for a WR for the Giants. It was completely mismanaged. "I didnt just give him an extension to trade him." I would expect 2 first rounders for a player of his caliber. Or at least 1 top 10. We paid him $14m to play for the Browns last year by the way. There's no way they were getting 2 first rounders. Just look at the most recent WR trades. Hopkins, Diggs, Cooper. None produced 2 first rounders. Only 1 first rounder. And the Giants actually got the highest 1st round pick out of those trades. That was a good trade. Odell's value has only decreased over the past year.
|
|
|
Post by hadenough on May 15, 2020 8:36:25 GMT -5
This is a big year for DG. He set everything up for this year. If this year doesn't pan out...it's time to go.
|
|
|
Post by jb456 on May 15, 2020 9:08:09 GMT -5
He got a Kings ransom for OBJ IMO but this Baker situation is a different matter altogether. This is on the level of getting kicked in the nuts with metal tipped boots..... Agree to disagree about the value returned in Odell being traded. As my thread pointed out the other day, Odell was easily the best WR we ever had. 3 of his seasons here were top 10 seasons all time for a WR for the Giants. It was completely mismanaged. "I didnt just give him an extension to trade him." I would expect 2 first rounders for a player of his caliber. Or at least 1 top 10. We paid him $14m to play for the Browns last year by the way. He definitely was the best WR we ever had but DG got what he could for him at the time. (He got a first, a third and a decent player). Would I have hoped for more? Sure. Should the Giants have traded him before they handed him that stupid contract? Yup! The one thing I really like about DG is that he knows when he messed up and moves to adjust it. Now, after another season of injury and decent showing in Cleveland, what do you think OBJ is worth at most? A high 3rd rounder, maybe a 2nd at most (I honestly don't think they could get a second rounder for him) ? He isn't turning any team into a contender and also carries a ridiculous cap hit along with his ridiculous distracting me first personality. I need to wear my watch while playing a football game, no one can tell me what to do. He kind of reminds me of Veruca from Charlie and the Chocolate factory.... OBJ is the worst player to have on a young team. He may be a good final piece for a team that's contending with a strong veteran core but that's about it...
|
|
|
Post by McCherry on May 15, 2020 9:12:24 GMT -5
the quarantine is clearly affecting some more than others...
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on May 15, 2020 9:38:05 GMT -5
If we are going to be balanced (meaningless to some) we got Slayton and Connelly in the fifth round last year.
Even though I really like them both, it probably doesn't completely off set DGs doozy of a **** up with Baker but at least it tells a more complete story regarding the GM. Add Jones and Lawrence to that draft and it might be a wash.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on May 15, 2020 10:25:49 GMT -5
Agree to disagree about the value returned in Odell being traded. As my thread pointed out the other day, Odell was easily the best WR we ever had. 3 of his seasons here were top 10 seasons all time for a WR for the Giants. It was completely mismanaged. "I didnt just give him an extension to trade him." I would expect 2 first rounders for a player of his caliber. Or at least 1 top 10. We paid him $14m to play for the Browns last year by the way. He definitely was the best WR we ever had but DG got what he could for him at the time. (He got a first, a third and a decent player). Would I have hoped for more? Sure. Should the Giants have traded him before they handed him that stupid contract? Yup! The one thing I really like about DG is that he knows when he messed up and moves to adjust it. Now, after another season of injury and decent showing in Cleveland, what do you think OBJ is worth at most? A high 3rd rounder, maybe a 2nd at most (I honestly don't think they could get a second rounder for him) ? He isn't turning any team into a contender and also carries a ridiculous cap hit along with his ridiculous distracting me first personality. I need to wear my watch while playing a football game, no one can tell me what to do. He kind of reminds me of Veruca from Charlie and the Chocolate factory....
OBJ is the worst player to have on a young team. He may be a good final piece for a team that's contending with a strong veteran core but that's about it... 100% without question. I wanted him traded a while back while he had much more value. Odell is a punk, always has been. His GB game in the playoffs and boat trip showed me he didnt care. I got killed here for calling him a team cancer and a straight up diva. You dont win with those guys. I was shocked we gave him an extension. His value now? Dirt. So as Im glad DG saw he was wrong keeping him and tried to get value from him, im disappointed it took that long. If he traded him before the extension, in his 4th year, it would have been different. This was just another thing I added to my list with Dave. Really, it all started with him drafting a RB #2 over all. And then we got all the terrible FA contracts, Solder to Ogletree, to the contract with Odell, to trading for Wiliams in a sell season, to his drafts which are still TBD in my opinion (except it looks like an F for Baker now). Just keep on adding to the checklist of missteps with him IMO.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on May 15, 2020 10:28:22 GMT -5
If we are going to be balanced (meaningless to some) we got Slayton and Connelly in the fifth round last year. Even though I really like them both, it probably doesn't completely off set DGs doozy of a **** up with Baker but at least it tells a more complete story regarding the GM. Add Jones and Lawrence to that draft and it might be a wash. We know not enough of Slayton or Connelly at all to be considering them great players. Slayton does appear to be a great find though but we need another year or 2 of constant production. We have seen great looking WRs flame out quick before. Hopefully he is not one of them. Connelly has a tough mountain to climb to get to be a great pick now. I liked what I saw pre injury, but that injury is brutal. I certainly have no issue giving DG credit on his good moves too. Vernon for Zeitler being one of them,
|
|
drew
Special Teams
Posts: 190
|
Post by drew on May 15, 2020 12:51:14 GMT -5
the quarantine is clearly affecting some more than others... Not me. I've been wanted Gettleman fired since the day he was hired. Truly an awful hire. Everything he does reminds me of why Carolina ran him out of town.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on May 15, 2020 12:59:26 GMT -5
Agree to disagree about the value returned in Odell being traded. As my thread pointed out the other day, Odell was easily the best WR we ever had. 3 of his seasons here were top 10 seasons all time for a WR for the Giants. It was completely mismanaged. "I didnt just give him an extension to trade him." I would expect 2 first rounders for a player of his caliber. Or at least 1 top 10. We paid him $14m to play for the Browns last year by the way. You're kidding, right? Talk about about damning with faint praise, the best WR the Giants ever had? Is there a more meaningless metric than that? Two 1st rounders or a top 10 1st rounder is ridiculous. It would have been great if they could get that but there are only so many Jerry Joneses in the league. Hopkins netted a 2nd rounder and the overpaid David Johnson and he is better than Beckham. This valuation feels like a guy house is so special its worth more than every house in the neighborhood. Those people never get their houses sold until they return to reality. Yeah thats Bill O Brien being a bad GM. I think everyone is saying that. Terrible deal for the Texans.
|
|
|
Post by Sarcasman on May 15, 2020 13:13:04 GMT -5
You're kidding, right? Talk about about damning with faint praise, the best WR the Giants ever had? Is there a more meaningless metric than that? Two 1st rounders or a top 10 1st rounder is ridiculous. It would have been great if they could get that but there are only so many Jerry Joneses in the league. Hopkins netted a 2nd rounder and the overpaid David Johnson and he is better than Beckham. This valuation feels like a guy house is so special its worth more than every house in the neighborhood. Those people never get their houses sold until they return to reality. Yeah thats Bill O Brien being a bad GM. I think everyone is saying that. Terrible deal for the Texans. I deleted my response because I hadn't read ahead and then I saw that others had addressed your idea of the market. The Giants did great on that trade. I'm ignoring the mess in the Giants management string that caused them to resign him before trading him, that is what it is. And the market is the market. The Giants won that trade going away as of now. If Beckham returns to being the player he was in 2015 and consistently delivers those numbers and stays on the field, then we'd have to relook at it. But as of right now and I know it's premature, there is no question.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on May 15, 2020 14:13:01 GMT -5
We have not had a footsie thread on a while .
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on May 15, 2020 14:41:54 GMT -5
The offer wasn't all financial. Rhule wanted more power in selecting personnel. He wasn't going to get that. As per Ben Allbright Understandable...now help me take the leap that it was DG that he didn't want any part of. If he had an offer for 60 million AND personnel control from the Panthers, doesn't it make sense for him to ask the same of the Giants? you're wasting your time looking for common sense from some people on this board, kind of looks like some people just don't like DG no matter how much he accomplishes....
|
|
|
Post by TCHOF on May 15, 2020 14:45:05 GMT -5
Understandable...now help me take the leap that it was DG that he didn't want any part of. If he had an offer for 60 million AND personnel control from the Panthers, doesn't it make sense for him to ask the same of the Giants? you're wasting your time looking for common sense from some people on this board, kind of looks like some people just don't like DG no matter how much he accomplishes.... lol … what exactly has he accomplished?
|
|
|
Post by snyder55 on May 15, 2020 15:00:47 GMT -5
I have never lined up DGs accomplishments along side of his failures to evaluate him because this team is still very much a work in progress and not a finished product but I for one like what he's trying to do. One of the things I like about DG is that he isn't afraid to try something...
|
|
|
Post by Jomo on May 15, 2020 15:48:26 GMT -5
If we are going to be balanced (meaningless to some) we got Slayton and Connelly in the fifth round last year. Even though I really like them both, it probably doesn't completely off set DGs doozy of a **** up with Baker but at least it tells a more complete story regarding the GM. Add Jones and Lawrence to that draft and it might be a wash. We know not enough of Slayton or Connelly at all to be considering them great players. Slayton does appear to be a great find though but we need another year or 2 of constant production. We have seen great looking WRs flame out quick before. Hopefully he is not one of them. Connelly has a tough mountain to climb to get to be a great pick now. I liked what I saw pre injury, but that injury is brutal. I certainly have no issue giving DG credit on his good moves too. Vernon for Zeitler being one of them, Slayton and Connelly are correctly called "too early to tell." With Baker we know what we have. So, that does tilt things. DG has a decidedly mixed bag with us. This one puts a finger on the scales in the wrong direction. If he pulled a JR on us and leaned on Shurmur to play Baker to justify the #1, I would be done with him. We don't know that to be the case but why else would a kid who sleeps through meetings, looks lost on the field, start most or all of the games?
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on May 15, 2020 15:56:19 GMT -5
We know not enough of Slayton or Connelly at all to be considering them great players. Slayton does appear to be a great find though but we need another year or 2 of constant production. We have seen great looking WRs flame out quick before. Hopefully he is not one of them. Connelly has a tough mountain to climb to get to be a great pick now. I liked what I saw pre injury, but that injury is brutal. I certainly have no issue giving DG credit on his good moves too. Vernon for Zeitler being one of them, Slayton and Connelly are correctly called "too early to tell." With Baker we know what we have. So, that does tilt things. DG has a decidedly mixed bag with us. This one puts a finger on the scales in the wrong direction. If he pulled a JR on us and leaned on Shurmur to play Baker to justify the #1, I would be done with him. We don't know that to be the case but why else would a kid who sleeps through meetings, looks lost on the field, start most or all of the games? He was our most talented CB last year (with JEnkins) It just wasnt in the cards. Raw talent was there. They had to play him to try to get it out of him. HAve it click. Experience is needed for rookies. But so is passion and determination which he laked. Watch any of his Georgia games were he shuts down future WR pros like nothing. I think it was a mixture of bad coaching and his lazy ass entitled personality. The fame got to him before he displayed it. Plus, obviously he has a checkered past we are about to find out all about. And this was just needless to say, ridiculous behavior for a player, or any person for that matter. Its over now.
|
|
|
Post by Delicreep on May 15, 2020 17:39:28 GMT -5
Welp, add trading up for DeAndre Baker who obviously had character concerns coming out of college to the list now... High winds here took some trees down on the Culver farm...I blame DG.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on May 15, 2020 17:44:46 GMT -5
Welp, add trading up for DeAndre Baker who obviously had character concerns coming out of college to the list now... High winds here took some trees down on the Culver farm...I blame DG. My man...
|
|