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Post by bluebuddha on Jul 16, 2019 20:59:48 GMT -5
Just like how the Giants cut promptly cut Josh Brown?  now i dont know if skill level or color of skin was the reason, but it certainly is interesting that one can be suspended or cut and one can remain on the team. I believe the Giants cut Brown because he lied to the Giants about the extent he was physically abusing his wife. Also the NFL concluded its investigation and suspended Brown. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 23:05:35 GMT -5
now i dont know if skill level or color of skin was the reason, but it certainly is interesting that one can be suspended or cut and one can remain on the team. Do you think that one was widely reported in the media and one was essentially unknown to the public might have been a factor? no , it was pretty much reported all over nfl media and sights, even non giant fans knew or remember it.(i still see postings about it on social media today) im thinking it had to do more with him being more valuable to the org at the time. this kid its easier to cut bait with. with brown we needed him more. i seem to remember plax having an domestic violence charge and the giants let it slide basically (i could be wrong on the timeline there) |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 17, 2019 6:20:05 GMT -5
Do you think that one was widely reported in the media and one was essentially unknown to the public might have been a factor? no , it was pretty much reported all over nfl media and sights, even non giant fans knew or remember it.(i still see postings about it on social media today) im thinking it had to do more with him being more valuable to the org at the time. this kid its easier to cut bait with. with brown we needed him more. i seem to remember plax having an domestic violence charge and the giants let it slide basically (i could be wrong on the timeline there)
"We reopened the investigation based on new info," the league texted ESPN on Friday. "Concluded there was a violation of our personal conduct policy and imposed 6 game suspension which he accepted without appeal." In a statement later Friday, the league referred to documents released in October 2016 by the King County (Washington) Sheriff's Office as part of its investigation into a 2015 incident between Brown and his then-wife. "These documents, which previously had been withheld from the public and the NFL, contained information regarding a series of other incidents separate from the May 2015 incident," the statement said.
The decision comes on the same day that Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott was granted a preliminary injunction from a U.S. District Court judge in Texas that will allow him to continue to play this season. Elliott was suspended for six games on Aug. 11 for a violation of the league's personal conduct policy. Although Brown remains unsigned after the Giants released him in October 2016, he will start serving the six-game suspension immediately, starting with this week's games. www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20629879/nfl-suspends-former-new-york-giants-kicker-josh-brown-six-more-games |
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Post by TEM on Jul 17, 2019 6:31:03 GMT -5
Explain . If you think being in a toxic environment that may lead to an altercation is intelligent. Good luck with that. Your comments equate women with children and not responsible for their actions and requires the man to be in control of the situation absolving her of any responsibility of her actions. I find that exceedingly insulting. It was such a horrible and shocking insult that "wow" was the best I could manage as a response yesterday. I'm still quite flabbergasted by it. It was pretty blatant in meaning what I said. It seems you can not assimilate it . OH well. F bomb got it instantly. So the interpretation was decipherable. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 8:06:39 GMT -5
ok, this is going nowhere. I am shocked you have employees and never had to deal with an accusation of conduct you didn't personally witness and the investigation to determine what happened. I was just a supervisor of bar/waitstaff and I have had to do conduct investigations, many of them. They are not particularly difficult, just a bit time consuming. Right now the only info we have is a police report. I’m suppose to go out and look to see if there are cameras., then ask to see the tape? I guess that depends, did an incident occur on your property and had cameras? You might want to look at them. I think you are thinking a conduct investigation is akin to a criminal investigation. It isn't, confirming some facts, like was the employee even there, generally isn't difficult. One of the dishwashers was assaulted in the ally behind the restaurant I worked in late night and he was the only one still there. He defended himself and ended up killing his attacker. Police reported to the scene, saw no evidence of a struggle and arrested him charged with murder. Video camera in the ally showed what happened and it worked out in the end. You would have fired him based on the initial police report. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 8:09:02 GMT -5
ok, this is going nowhere. I am shocked you have employees and never had to deal with an accusation of conduct you didn't personally witness and the investigation to determine what happened. I was just a supervisor of bar/waitstaff and I have had to do conduct investigations, many of them. They are not particularly difficult, just a bit time consuming. You aren't trying to crack the case, just determine if the accusation seems plausible enough to take action. Let's clarify who I hire: I hire maintenance men and custodians, who have master keys to all the apartments. Apartments rented largely by college students between 19 and 25, half of whom are female Apartments paid for by doting, overly protective moms and dads, who are laser focused on their children and their security. I can not imagine saying to a father who has read the story of my maintenance man standing on a woman's neck and tell him, "don't worry, I asked him about it and he said he totally didn't do it...totally. You should feel your 19 year old daughter is safe with me and not go rent an apartments across the street, where none of their employees are accused of a horrific assault".Love to hear from some parents out there...is he a keeper? Well, if that is how you would handle it, yes, it will go badly. Why would you handle it like that? |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 8:11:54 GMT -5
Your comments equate women with children and not responsible for their actions and requires the man to be in control of the situation absolving her of any responsibility of her actions. I find that exceedingly insulting. It was such a horrible and shocking insult that "wow" was the best I could manage as a response yesterday. I'm still quite flabbergasted by it. It was pretty blatant in meaning what I said. It seems you can not assimilate it . OH well. F bomb got it instantly. So the interpretation was decipherable. I would agree, what you said was quite blatent. |
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 17, 2019 8:19:04 GMT -5
Right now the only info we have is a police report. I’m suppose to go out and look to see if there are cameras., then ask to see the tape? I guess that depends, did an incident occur on your property and had cameras? You might want to look at them. I think you are thinking a conduct investigation is akin to a criminal investigation. It isn't, confirming some facts, like was the employee even there, generally isn't difficult. One of the dishwashers was assaulted in the ally behind the restaurant I worked in late night and he was the only one still there. He defended himself and ended up killing his attacker. Police reported to the scene, saw no evidence of a struggle and arrested him charged with murder. Video camera in the ally showed what happened and it worked out in the end. You would have fired him based on the initial police report. The business doesn't necessarily have to do its own investigation ... it can just wait for the outcome of the criminal proceedings. If the guy pleads guilty or is found guilty, he is gone; if the charges are dropped or he is acquitted, his suspension is lifted |
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Post by jay051 on Jul 17, 2019 8:35:17 GMT -5
Wait for more info? How dare you not jump to a snap judgement and demand the death penalty.
If this is true he will never play in the NFL again. We see it time and time again the NFL has no tolerance for marginal players when they do this. If you are a good play you can get away with some stuff. If you are a great player you can kill people. You can be marginal and do things like this.
Ray Lewis yes. Rae Carruth, no (I almost didn't post this, but figured what the hey!!) Difference is that Ray Lewis wasnt convicted of murder compared to Ray Carruth who was convicted. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 8:35:46 GMT -5
I guess that depends, did an incident occur on your property and had cameras? You might want to look at them. I think you are thinking a conduct investigation is akin to a criminal investigation. It isn't, confirming some facts, like was the employee even there, generally isn't difficult. One of the dishwashers was assaulted in the ally behind the restaurant I worked in late night and he was the only one still there. He defended himself and ended up killing his attacker. Police reported to the scene, saw no evidence of a struggle and arrested him charged with murder. Video camera in the ally showed what happened and it worked out in the end. You would have fired him based on the initial police report. The business doesn't necessarily have to do its own investigation ... it can just wait for the outcome of the criminal proceedings. If the guy pleads guilty or is found guilty, he is gone; if the charges are dropped or he is acquitted, his suspension is lifted They could, but businesses generally don't want to leave stuff hanging out there long enough for the justice system to complete its work. If a person attached with your company gets press related to a violent incident, you really need to address it immediately and reach a determination as quickly as possible. Unless you have something that shows the person to be clearly innocent, letting them go is the best course of action. One hotel I worked at handled it simply, if you missed or were late for work because you were arrested for any reason you were terminated. Simple policy and negated the need to address to investigate things that occurred off property. Most people in that hotel work 6 days a week, so it would be generally difficult to get arrested and not miss a shift. Not a perfect policy, but fair and well known on the day of orientation. Also allowed to reapply for a job, so if it turns out to be a BS charge, they could get their job back. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 17, 2019 8:54:15 GMT -5
Let's clarify who I hire: I hire maintenance men and custodians, who have master keys to all the apartments. Apartments rented largely by college students between 19 and 25, half of whom are female Apartments paid for by doting, overly protective moms and dads, who are laser focused on their children and their security. I can not imagine saying to a father who has read the story of my maintenance man standing on a woman's neck and tell him, "don't worry, I asked him about it and he said he totally didn't do it...totally. You should feel your 19 year old daughter is safe with me and not go rent an apartments across the street, where none of their employees are accused of a horrific assault".Love to hear from some parents out there...is he a keeper? Well, if that is how you would handle it, yes, it will go badly. Why would you handle it like that? What would you suggest I tell that father who has asked about my maintenance man standing on a woman's neck, and what that means for his daughters safety? There's a police report...there's a news story, and then there's my answer. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 17, 2019 8:56:17 GMT -5
I guess that depends, did an incident occur on your property and had cameras? You might want to look at them. I think you are thinking a conduct investigation is akin to a criminal investigation. It isn't, confirming some facts, like was the employee even there, generally isn't difficult. One of the dishwashers was assaulted in the ally behind the restaurant I worked in late night and he was the only one still there. He defended himself and ended up killing his attacker. Police reported to the scene, saw no evidence of a struggle and arrested him charged with murder. Video camera in the ally showed what happened and it worked out in the end. You would have fired him based on the initial police report. The business doesn't necessarily have to do its own investigation ... it can just wait for the outcome of the criminal proceedings. If the guy pleads guilty or is found guilty, he is gone; if the charges are dropped or he is acquitted, his suspension is lifted I could suspend him without pay, but I guess I never have understood why that is helpful to people. It could be literally a year if it goes to trial. |
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Post by SG88 on Jul 17, 2019 8:58:09 GMT -5
Here's my advice to Moore or any man that is in a heated argument with a woman that may turn physical: Run away like you're Carl Lewis and don't return to the place (if it is your home) without law enforcement. It is way easier said than done though, especially when you have been drinking and we all know that alcohol impairs judgment. On a serious note, a lot of the posts in this thread are totally on point. In regards to the NFL, I am not sure that the team would act this swiftly if Moore was good at his trade. The Josh Brown situation was handled horribly by this organization even with evidence. They didn't even cut him until the PR shit storm became overwhelming.
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 17, 2019 9:03:59 GMT -5
Here's my advice to Moore or any man that is in a heated argument with a woman that may turn physical: Run away like you're Carl Lewis and don't return to the place (if it is your home) without law enforcement. It is way easier said than done though, especially when you have been drinking and we all know that alcohol impairs judgment. On a serious note, a lot of the posts in this thread are totally on point. In regards to the NFL, I am not sure that the team would act this swiftly if Moore was good at his trade. T he Josh Brown situation was handled horribly by this organization even with evidence. They didn't even cut him until the PR shit storm became overwhelming. Not often I use the word inexcusable, but.... |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 9:12:09 GMT -5
Well, if that is how you would handle it, yes, it will go badly. Why would you handle it like that? What would you suggest I tell that father who has asked about my maintenance man standing on a woman's neck, and what that means for his daughters safety? There's a police report...there's a news story, and then there's my answer. That safety of your tenants is your top priority. That he has been suspended and all his access to the property has been removed as well as changing the locks pending a short investigation into the allegations. That you do not tolerate this type of behavior by your employees even when not working. Do whatever you want though. Just don't cry to me if some crazy destroys your life based on a completely fabricated accusation, because you support and encourage such actions. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 9:14:45 GMT -5
Here's my advice to Moore or any man that is in a heated argument with a woman that may turn physical: Run away like you're Carl Lewis and don't return to the place (if it is your home) without law enforcement. It is way easier said than done though, especially when you have been drinking and we all know that alcohol impairs judgment. On a serious note, a lot of the posts in this thread are totally on point. In regards to the NFL, I am not sure that the team would act this swiftly if Moore was good at his trade. The Josh Brown situation was handled horribly by this organization even with evidence. They didn't even cut him until the PR shit storm became overwhelming. That is the problem with the NFL. They have shown quite clearly that they do not care about bad actions by their players. They only care if it brings bad press. They will and have swept anything they can under the rug. They are not the only sports league that does this either. |
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Post by giants8493 on Jul 17, 2019 9:15:37 GMT -5
Just like how the Giants cut promptly cut Josh Brown? They should have cut him too. My hunch is they must be considering the NFLPA and how they would react to the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. Players are unionized but thats garbage. If this guy makes the team this year we would be in trouble anyway and now this? He would be the 4th safety assuming Love sticks at CB |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 17, 2019 9:17:46 GMT -5
What would you suggest I tell that father who has asked about my maintenance man standing on a woman's neck, and what that means for his daughters safety? There's a police report...there's a news story, and then there's my answer. That safety of your tenants is your top priority. That he has been suspended and all his access to the property has been removed as well as changing the locks pending a short investigation into the allegations. That you do not tolerate this type of behavior by your employees even when not working. Do whatever you want though. Just don't cry to me if some crazy destroys your life based on a completely fabricated accusation, because you support and encourage such actions. What exactly is your "short investigation" going to accomplish? If the charges are not dropped and there isn't a complete exoneration, the public will have it's say: we don't want monsters around our kids. Short of that exoneration, what could your investigation possibly do to make the parents feel comfortable with this man around their children? |
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Post by SG88 on Jul 17, 2019 9:21:00 GMT -5
Here's my advice to Moore or any man that is in a heated argument with a woman that may turn physical: Run away like you're Carl Lewis and don't return to the place (if it is your home) without law enforcement. It is way easier said than done though, especially when you have been drinking and we all know that alcohol impairs judgment. On a serious note, a lot of the posts in this thread are totally on point. In regards to the NFL, I am not sure that the team would act this swiftly if Moore was good at his trade. The Josh Brown situation was handled horribly by this organization even with evidence. They didn't even cut him until the PR shit storm became overwhelming. That is the problem with the NFL. They have shown quite clearly that they do not care about bad actions by their players. They only care if it brings bad press. They will and have swept anything they can under the rug. They are not the only sports league that does this either. I agree. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 9:21:06 GMT -5
Just like how the Giants cut promptly cut Josh Brown? They should have cut him too. My hunch is they must be considering the NFLPA and how they would react to the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. Players are unionized but thats garbage. If this guy makes the team this year we would be in trouble anyway and now this? He would be the 4th safety assuming Love sticks at CB If this accusation has any credibility he should be and will be gone. If it somehow didn't make the news because they were too busy virtue signalling over the latest Trump tweet, then most likely nothing would happen to the kid. Then months later they can act shocked about the extent of the violence and release him then when the press gets bad. Josh Brown should have been gone long before he was, the team showed its true organizational character when waiting until it became bad press to not act. There was no new information and there was enough previous information to make anything that might have been new, irrelevant. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 9:25:49 GMT -5
That safety of your tenants is your top priority. That he has been suspended and all his access to the property has been removed as well as changing the locks pending a short investigation into the allegations. That you do not tolerate this type of behavior by your employees even when not working. Do whatever you want though. Just don't cry to me if some crazy destroys your life based on a completely fabricated accusation, because you support and encourage such actions. What exactly is your "short investigation" going to accomplish? If the charges are not dropped and there isn't a complete exoneration, the public will have it's say: we don't want monsters around our kids. Short of that exoneration, what could your investigation possibly do to make the parents feel comfortable with this man around their children? Well, you would have already fired him based on initial police report. So any complete exoneration is irrelevant. Waiting to find out if the charges are utter BS is why you suspend first pending investigation. If you question why you shouldn't just accept initial reports, look at the Jussie Smollet case. Initial reports looked like a horrible hate crime not the self inflicted attention seeking that it was. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 17, 2019 9:28:58 GMT -5
What exactly is your "short investigation" going to accomplish? If the charges are not dropped and there isn't a complete exoneration, the public will have it's say: we don't want monsters around our kids. Short of that exoneration, what could your investigation possibly do to make the parents feel comfortable with this man around their children? Well, you would have already fired him based on initial police report. So any complete exoneration is irrelevant. Waiting to find out if the charges are utter BS is why you suspend first pending investigation. If you question why you shouldn't just accept initial reports, look at the Jussie Smollet case. Initial reports looked like a horrible hate crime not the self inflicted attention seeking that it was. I'll ask again... if the charges are not dropped and there isn't a complete exoneration, the public will have it's say: we don't want monsters around our kids. Short of that exoneration, what could your investigation possibly do to make the parents feel comfortable with this man around their children?
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 9:36:51 GMT -5
Well, you would have already fired him based on initial police report. So any complete exoneration is irrelevant. Waiting to find out if the charges are utter BS is why you suspend first pending investigation. If you question why you shouldn't just accept initial reports, look at the Jussie Smollet case. Initial reports looked like a horrible hate crime not the self inflicted attention seeking that it was. I'll ask again... if the charges are not dropped and there isn't a complete exoneration, the public will have it's say: we don't want monsters around our kids. Short of that exoneration, what could your investigation possibly do to make the parents feel comfortable with this man around their children?
Nothing. Which is why I suggested that suspending pending investigation into it is a reasonable step to take. You are firing based on initial police report. Exoneration would take a bit longer. You are firing a guy based on a report that could be completely fabricated. Waiting to find out if it is, seems reasonable. I really don't understand why this is so controversial to you. Is a measured and reasoned response such a foreign concept these days? |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 17, 2019 9:41:08 GMT -5
I'll ask again... if the charges are not dropped and there isn't a complete exoneration, the public will have it's say: we don't want monsters around our kids. Short of that exoneration, what could your investigation possibly do to make the parents feel comfortable with this man around their children?
Nothing. Which is why I suggested that suspending pending investigation into it is a reasonable step to take. You are firing based on initial police report. Exoneration would take a bit longer. You are firing a guy based on a report that could be completely fabricated. Waiting to find out if it is, seems reasonable. I really don't understand why this is so controversial to you. Is a measured and reasoned response such a foreign concept these days? So a short investigation that you admit will accomplish nothing. It's not controversial to me at all, I don't understand the pretense that this ends any other way than being forced to let him go, barring a complete exoneration. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 9:54:38 GMT -5
Nothing. Which is why I suggested that suspending pending investigation into it is a reasonable step to take. You are firing based on initial police report. Exoneration would take a bit longer. You are firing a guy based on a report that could be completely fabricated. Waiting to find out if it is, seems reasonable. I really don't understand why this is so controversial to you. Is a measured and reasoned response such a foreign concept these days? So a short investigation that you admit will accomplish nothing. It's not controversial to me at all, I don't understand the pretense that this ends any other way than being forced to let him go, barring a complete exoneration. No, a short investigation allows you to find out if he will be or has been completely exonerated. The "investigation" could be simply waiting for more information from the police. Each situation and circumstance is different. In the Moore case, they basically have suspended him waiting to see if the police determine that nothing happened. In another case it may be waiting to see security footage. Another could be finding out the time of incident and he was working on the AC in 5b when it happened which was 20 miles away from where the alleged incident occurred. So an investigation is both helpful and prudent. |
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 17, 2019 10:15:19 GMT -5
OMG...
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Post by giants8493 on Jul 17, 2019 13:13:34 GMT -5
They should have cut him too. My hunch is they must be considering the NFLPA and how they would react to the whole innocent until proven guilty thing. Players are unionized but thats garbage. If this guy makes the team this year we would be in trouble anyway and now this? He would be the 4th safety assuming Love sticks at CB If this accusation has any credibility he should be and will be gone. If it somehow didn't make the news because they were too busy virtue signalling over the latest Trump tweet, then most likely nothing would happen to the kid. Then months later they can act shocked about the extent of the violence and release him then when the press gets bad. Josh Brown should have been gone long before he was, the team showed its true organizational character when waiting until it became bad press to not act. There was no new information and there was enough previous information to make anything that might have been new, irrelevant. You are talking about Josh Brown now? I could be remembering wrong but I thought it was an accusation, than he played in one game, than the diary about how he considered himself a god and his family are his sex slaves came out. Once that broke out I thought he was gone. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 13:15:42 GMT -5
no , it was pretty much reported all over nfl media and sights, even non giant fans knew or remember it.(i still see postings about it on social media today) im thinking it had to do more with him being more valuable to the org at the time. this kid its easier to cut bait with. with brown we needed him more. i seem to remember plax having an domestic violence charge and the giants let it slide basically (i could be wrong on the timeline there)
"We reopened the investigation based on new info," the league texted ESPN on Friday. "Concluded there was a violation of our personal conduct policy and imposed 6 game suspension which he accepted without appeal." In a statement later Friday, the league referred to documents released in October 2016 by the King County (Washington) Sheriff's Office as part of its investigation into a 2015 incident between Brown and his then-wife. "These documents, which previously had been withheld from the public and the NFL, contained information regarding a series of other incidents separate from the May 2015 incident," the statement said.
The decision comes on the same day that Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott was granted a preliminary injunction from a U.S. District Court judge in Texas that will allow him to continue to play this season. Elliott was suspended for six games on Aug. 11 for a violation of the league's personal conduct policy. Although Brown remains unsigned after the Giants released him in October 2016, he will start serving the six-game suspension immediately, starting with this week's games. www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20629879/nfl-suspends-former-new-york-giants-kicker-josh-brown-six-more-games this is true, but it did not come as soon as it happened, he was allowed to play the rest of the season. in this case the giants suspended quickly. |
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Post by jmike on Jul 17, 2019 13:21:02 GMT -5
If this accusation has any credibility he should be and will be gone. If it somehow didn't make the news because they were too busy virtue signalling over the latest Trump tweet, then most likely nothing would happen to the kid. Then months later they can act shocked about the extent of the violence and release him then when the press gets bad. Josh Brown should have been gone long before he was, the team showed its true organizational character when waiting until it became bad press to not act. There was no new information and there was enough previous information to make anything that might have been new, irrelevant. You are talking about Josh Brown now? I could be remembering wrong but I thought it was an accusation, than he played in one game, than the diary about how he considered himself a god and his family are his sex slaves came out. Once that broke out I thought he was gone. There were several incidents going back several years with him. The details are fuzzy at this point for me, but as I recall any due diligence would have discovered that stuff for the Giants even if it was never well known to the general fan. |
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Post by Delicreep on Jul 17, 2019 13:40:38 GMT -5
"We reopened the investigation based on new info," the league texted ESPN on Friday. "Concluded there was a violation of our personal conduct policy and imposed 6 game suspension which he accepted without appeal." In a statement later Friday, the league referred to documents released in October 2016 by the King County (Washington) Sheriff's Office as part of its investigation into a 2015 incident between Brown and his then-wife. "These documents, which previously had been withheld from the public and the NFL, contained information regarding a series of other incidents separate from the May 2015 incident," the statement said.
The decision comes on the same day that Dallas Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott was granted a preliminary injunction from a U.S. District Court judge in Texas that will allow him to continue to play this season. Elliott was suspended for six games on Aug. 11 for a violation of the league's personal conduct policy. Although Brown remains unsigned after the Giants released him in October 2016, he will start serving the six-game suspension immediately, starting with this week's games. www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20629879/nfl-suspends-former-new-york-giants-kicker-josh-brown-six-more-games this is true, but it did not come as soon as it happened, he was allowed to play the rest of the season. in this case the giants suspended quickly. Right...the public was unaware of what what Brown did, and he was allowed to play (and I am sure the Giants knew) When it became public, the Giants cut him lose. Race had nothing to do with it. |
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