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Post by GameTime on Oct 15, 2019 14:05:25 GMT -5
But I just don't realistically see this team winning the division or a playoff spot this year, regardless of how poorly DAL and PHI are playing. Yes I want DAL to lose, and not get into the playoffs..........and I want revenge for the last game. However with this schedule I do not see that many more wins coming to us. Face it we are looking at another top ten draft pick next spring......which is fine. as fans we can get excited for this but who really expects to get into the playoffs?? This season is not about that....not even close. If Dallas and Philly weren't sucking it wouldn't even be a thought. The Giants will be lucky/fortunate to win 5 or 6 games.
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Oct 15, 2019 15:24:08 GMT -5
But I just don't realistically see this team winning the division or a playoff spot this year, regardless of how poorly DAL and PHI are playing. Yes I want DAL to lose, and not get into the playoffs..........and I want revenge for the last game. However with this schedule I do not see that many more wins coming to us. Face it we are looking at another top ten draft pick next spring......which is fine. I didn’t think there was anyone on this message board that thought the Giants would be in the playoffs, aside from a few lost souls. I don’t think there was even a handful that thought before the season began that the Giants would make the playoffs this year. I think most wanted to see a successful transition from Eli to Jones, and great production from all the rookie and 2nd year players, especially on defense. Thus far there are some positive signs, but we will all know more after the next 8 games.
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 15, 2019 18:37:38 GMT -5
I'm finding the optimism pretty funny after a few bad games by the Eagles and Cowboys.. Some teams develop and get better as the season goes on and that all I'm hoping for. Then next year they better continue their great drafts and score a few real good FAs so we can truly discuss the chances of winning the division and maybe a playoff game.. I actually think backing into a division title at 8 and 8 would be more harmful than missing out by a game at 7-9 both would mean we were playing better at the end of the season and gelling as an team but it would be a fools gold type season.
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Post by Eazy E on Oct 15, 2019 19:23:57 GMT -5
Wait a minute. I dont care how but even if we somehow "luck" into winning an NFC East Title, how is that a bad thing. Every year I yearn for being able to look in the rear view mirror and see Dallas, Philly, and the Redskins. It doesnt matter how its accomplished. Its why the game is played. You compete to win now not to look forward to the next 2 or 3 years. You put it all on the line out there to win. If its 8-8 then so be it if it happens. Thats not a waste. We have only won the NFC East title 7 times in the last 50 years. If a fan cant support his team for doing that then I dont know what to tell you.
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 15, 2019 19:26:46 GMT -5
Wait a minute. I dont care how but even if we somehow "luck" into winning an NFC East Title, how is that a bad thing. Every year I yearn for being able to look in the rear view mirror and see Dallas, Philly, and the Redskins. It doesnt matter how its accomplished. Its why the game is played. You compete to win now not to look forward to the next 2 or 3 years. You put it all on the line out there to win. If its 8-8 then so be it if it happens. Thats not a waste. We have only won the NFC East title 7 times in the last 50 years. If a fan cant support his team for doing that then I dont know what to tell you. emoji
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Post by lasion2 on Oct 15, 2019 20:42:43 GMT -5
I'm finding the optimism pretty funny after a few bad games by the Eagles and Cowboys.. Some teams develop and get better as the season goes on and that all I'm hoping for. Then next year they better continue their great drafts and score a few real good FAs so we can truly discuss the chances of winning the division and maybe a playoff game.. I actually think backing into a division title at 8 and 8 would be more harmful than missing out by a game at 7-9 both would mean we were playing better at the end of the season and gelling as an team but it would be a fools gold type season. I understand what your saying. But, I have some questions. As a disclaimer; this is just mental gymnastics. I haven’t seen anything to budge the 6-10 prediction. Which decisions do you think would be compromised between a 7-9 and 8-8 season? We are obligated to spend 89% of the cap. Even at 8-8 I think the worts will show. The needs would still be apparent, right? The draft pick slides to 15-20-ish, which may mean we look at the prospects differently, but I don’t think 8-8 makes us, or DG, complacent to stand put. I really think the offseason would progress the same way. RT in FA WR, LT, LB in draft. I could see WR morphing to TE if value isn’t there....you see where I’m going
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Post by Parademon1 on Oct 15, 2019 21:05:45 GMT -5
Wait a minute. I dont care how but even if we somehow "luck" into winning an NFC East Title, how is that a bad thing. Every year I yearn for being able to look in the rear view mirror and see Dallas, Philly, and the Redskins. It doesnt matter how its accomplished. Its why the game is played. You compete to win now not to look forward to the next 2 or 3 years. You put it all on the line out there to win. If its 8-8 then so be it if it happens. Thats not a waste. We have only won the NFC East title 7 times in the last 50 years. If a fan cant support his team for doing that then I dont know what to tell you. NY has won the NFCE 8X:
86' 89' 90' 97' 00' 05' 08' 11'
Still pretty pathetic that they only have 8 div titles in half a century. Good news is they tend to make the most of it by going to the SB 4x outta the 8 times they won the div.
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Post by SG88 on Oct 15, 2019 23:23:58 GMT -5
Lose to Az Sunday & at 2-5, all this positive talk will go away. 10 days off to get healthy, at home vs a 29th ranked D that has trouble stopping the run & an O that has a 5'10 QB behind center. If they can't beat this team, they will have tons of trouble beating anyone else this season. And it would be oh so nice to see this team leading comfortably going into the 4th qt but it is them, so I expect a last second nail biter cuz for so long, this team hasn't had the talent level to win games by 10+ on a consistent basis like NE does. Last time NY beat opponents by 10+ on consecutive weeks was 2014, in weeks 3-4-5, they beat: Houston 30-17 Redskins 45-14 Atlanta 30-20 To get to 3-2, went 3-8 rest of the way to finish 6-10. Murray's playing well on a team with a lot less offensive weapons than we have That guy stays ragging on Kyler Murray, especially about his height. The Giants haven't really stopped any QB that doesn't play for Washington. Murray is going to light us up and it will take more than 30 points to beat them. IMO, the teams are evenly matched and the game could go either way.
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Post by DandyDon on Oct 15, 2019 23:36:58 GMT -5
Wait a minute. I dont care how but even if we somehow "luck" into winning an NFC East Title, how is that a bad thing. Every year I yearn for being able to look in the rear view mirror and see Dallas, Philly, and the Redskins. It doesnt matter how its accomplished. Its why the game is played. You compete to win now not to look forward to the next 2 or 3 years. You put it all on the line out there to win. If its 8-8 then so be it if it happens. Thats not a waste. We have only won the NFC East title 7 times in the last 50 years. If a fan cant support his team for doing that then I dont know what to tell you. NY has won the NFCE 8X:
86' 89' 90' 97' 00' 05' 08' 11'
Still pretty pathetic that they only have 8 div titles in half a century. Good news is they tend to make the most of it by going to the SB 4x outta the 8 times they won the div.
Yeah, and we are 5th in the most Superbowls won in that time frame. I'll take the SB wins over division titles. Figures dont lie, but peeps with an agenda can figure. www.statista.com/statistics/266516/number-of-super-bowl-wins-by-nfl-team/
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Post by giantlegacy on Oct 15, 2019 23:49:51 GMT -5
I actually think backing into a division title at 8 and 8 would be more harmful than missing out by a game at 7-9 both would mean we were playing better at the end of the season and gelling as an team but it would be a fools gold type season. I understand what your saying. But, I have some questions. As a disclaimer; this is just mental gymnastics. I haven’t seen anything to budge the 6-10 prediction. Which decisions do you think would be compromised between a 7-9 and 8-8 season? We are obligated to spend 89% of the cap. Even at 8-8 I think the worts will show. The needs would still be apparent, right? The draft pick slides to 15-20-ish, which may mean we look at the prospects differently, but I don’t think 8-8 makes us, or DG, complacent to stand put. I really think the offseason would progress the same way. RT in FA WR, LT, LB in draft. I could see WR morphing to TE if value isn’t there....you see where I’m going 7-9/8-8 missing the playoffs and backing into the playoffs even with warts means up to 10 spots in the draft,where we would be looking at players that are borderline same value you would find well into the 2nd round. Not that I'm ever into tanking,but it could mean the difference between getting CeeDee Lamb,Ruggs or Simmons and being forced to shift through whatever is left.
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mikethenygfan
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Post by mikethenygfan on Oct 16, 2019 6:04:09 GMT -5
But I just don't realistically see this team winning the division or a playoff spot this year, regardless of how poorly DAL and PHI are playing. Yes I want DAL to lose, and not get into the playoffs..........and I want revenge for the last game. However with this schedule I do not see that many more wins coming to us. Face it we are looking at another top ten draft pick next spring......which is fine. if we had stuck with eli there might have been a chance to make the playoffs, bring on the shit storm.
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Post by mikethenygfan on Oct 16, 2019 6:06:55 GMT -5
Lose to Az Sunday & at 2-5, all this positive talk will go away. 10 days off to get healthy, at home vs a 29th ranked D that has trouble stopping the run & an O that has a 5'10 QB behind center. If they can't beat this team, they will have tons of trouble beating anyone else this season. And it would be oh so nice to see this team leading comfortably going into the 4th qt but it is them, so I expect a last second nail biter cuz for so long, this team hasn't had the talent level to win games by 10+ on a consistent basis like NE does. Last time NY beat opponents by 10+ on consecutive weeks was 2014, in weeks 3-4-5, they beat: Houston 30-17 Redskins 45-14 Atlanta 30-20 To get to 3-2, went 3-8 rest of the way to finish 6-10. murray has been pretty good so i dont get what the 5’10 comment has to do with anything. Also cardinals are getting there all pro corner back from suspension.
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Oct 16, 2019 6:58:32 GMT -5
But I just don't realistically see this team winning the division or a playoff spot this year, regardless of how poorly DAL and PHI are playing. Yes I want DAL to lose, and not get into the playoffs..........and I want revenge for the last game. However with this schedule I do not see that many more wins coming to us. Face it we are looking at another top ten draft pick next spring......which is fine. if we had stuck with eli there might have been a chance to make the playoffs, bring on the shit storm. Hahahahaha....no chance sunshine.....and I am a big Eli supporter. First and foremost, this year’s Giants are NOT a playoff team. I think they are much improved, but not a playoff team. As for the QB position, Jones is better than Eli at this point, and even Eli knows it. Eli had a great run with the Giants but all good things must come to an end......and for Eli it has.
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Post by mikethenygfan on Oct 16, 2019 7:09:18 GMT -5
if we had stuck with eli there might have been a chance to make the playoffs, bring on the shit storm. Hahahahaha....no chance sunshine.....and I am a big Eli supporter. First and foremost, this year’s Giants are NOT a playoff team. I think they are much improved, but not a playoff team. As for the QB position, Jones is better than Eli at this point, and even Eli knows it. Eli had a great run with the Giants but all good things must come to an end......and for Eli it has. jones had one good game. I am all aboard the jones hype train he is our future. I just think eli can still play and is a good vet that could have played better then jones against the vikings and the patriots. I dont think jones is better then eli right now. But he will be.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 7:14:42 GMT -5
Hahahahaha....no chance sunshine.....and I am a big Eli supporter. First and foremost, this year’s Giants are NOT a playoff team. I think they are much improved, but not a playoff team. As for the QB position, Jones is better than Eli at this point, and even Eli knows it. Eli had a great run with the Giants but all good things must come to an end......and for Eli it has. jones had one good game. I am all aboard the jones hype train he is our future. I just think eli can still play and is a good vet that could have played better then jones against the vikings and the patriots. I dont think jones is better then eli right now. But he will be. So you think Eli would've been able to make up some of those double digit losses and turn them into a playoff team.. I don't agree with this and I also feel that Jones is currently better than Eli.
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Post by mikethenygfan on Oct 16, 2019 7:20:48 GMT -5
jones had one good game. I am all aboard the jones hype train he is our future. I just think eli can still play and is a good vet that could have played better then jones against the vikings and the patriots. I dont think jones is better then eli right now. But he will be. So you think Eli would've been able to make up some of those double digit losses and turn them into a playoff team.. I don't agree with this and I also feel that Jones is currently better than Eli. i dont think eli would have thrown as many picks or fumbled as much as jones. Jones is making alot of rookie mistaskes and that’s perfectly fine and expected. I think eli would have at the very least been a better game manager then jones. Your right i doubt eli wins those games the vikings and patriots are 2 really good teams and we have a lot of key injuries. I still think eli is the better qb right now but hes old now and it was the right move to go with jones. Also dont you think if we kept eli in that would mean the coach and gm were actually trying to win which would mean maybe we sign a rb 3 weeks ago or go after one of these vet middle linebackers? Those moves would have greatly impacted the vikings and patriots games.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 7:45:35 GMT -5
So you think Eli would've been able to make up some of those double digit losses and turn them into a playoff team.. I don't agree with this and I also feel that Jones is currently better than Eli. i dont think eli would have thrown as many picks or fumbled as much as jones. Jones is making alot of rookie mistaskes and that’s perfectly fine and expected. I think eli would have at the very least been a better game manager then jones. Your right i doubt eli wins those games the vikings and patriots are 2 really good teams and we have a lot of key injuries. I still think eli is the better qb right now but hes old now and it was the right move to go with jones. Also dont you think if we kept eli in that would mean the coach and gm were actually trying to win which would mean maybe we sign a rb 3 weeks ago or go after one of these vet middle linebackers? Those moves would have greatly impacted the vikings and patriots games. I will have to disagree again since I think they are trying to win and I don't think Eli would've won the Bucs game. There personnel decisions have been questioned over and over from all of us these past two years. I'm in the camp that they are missing too much with those choices so the lack of winning is about them being bad at their jobs. I'm giving them until the 2020 season to see if this direction is a successful one or not. I hope I'm wrong about them and time will tell us in a year or two.
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Post by southerner on Oct 16, 2019 9:12:44 GMT -5
So you think Eli would've been able to make up some of those double digit losses and turn them into a playoff team.. I don't agree with this and I also feel that Jones is currently better than Eli. i dont think eli would have thrown as many picks or fumbled as much as jones. Jones is making alot of rookie mistaskes and that’s perfectly fine and expected. I think eli would have at the very least been a better game manager then jones. Your right i doubt eli wins those games the vikings and patriots are 2 really good teams and we have a lot of key injuries. I still think eli is the better qb right now but hes old now and it was the right move to go with jones. Also dont you think if we kept eli in that would mean the coach and gm were actually trying to win which would mean maybe we sign a rb 3 weeks ago or go after one of these vet middle linebackers? Those moves would have greatly impacted the vikings and patriots games. Eli might not have made as many mistakes but he also would not have made many plays Jones made with his arm and feet......not to mention he would have been sacked MANY more times. Had Eli still been starting, the Giants would be 1-5 at best, and would not have scored as much. Give it up, it is over for Eli.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 16, 2019 10:37:02 GMT -5
Hahahahaha....no chance sunshine.....and I am a big Eli supporter. First and foremost, this year’s Giants are NOT a playoff team. I think they are much improved, but not a playoff team. As for the QB position, Jones is better than Eli at this point, and even Eli knows it. Eli had a great run with the Giants but all good things must come to an end......and for Eli it has. jones had one good game. I am all aboard the jones hype train he is our future. I just think eli can still play and is a good vet that could have played better then jones against the vikings and the patriots. I dont think jones is better then eli right now. But he will be. A big part of this has to do with the athleticism that younger players offer as well as the evolution of the game and its continued steering toward the college game. Are there a couple of things that a veteran QB brings to the table that may be critical to a team's success in the playoffs that a young/rookie can not? Absolutely I believe there are. That said, there are things that a younger more athletic player brings to a team that a veteran no longer can. Look at how many new QBS there are succeeding in the league right now. See how many older QBs this year shouldn't get their jobs back. It's like 25% of the league. Now some of them will because their teams are financially and/or emotionally (or both) bound to them, but the results clearly show that they should not. There are a lot of big names on that list, and Manning is certainly one of them.
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Post by Roosevelt on Oct 16, 2019 11:23:48 GMT -5
But I just don't realistically see this team winning the division or a playoff spot this year, regardless of how poorly DAL and PHI are playing. Yes I want DAL to lose, and not get into the playoffs..........and I want revenge for the last game. However with this schedule I do not see that many more wins coming to us. Face it we are looking at another top ten draft pick next spring......which is fine.
Based on what I saw from this team against New England, this team looks to me like it's headed in the right direction. They play hard and they look hungry. I have no issue where they stand right now.
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mikethenygfan
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Post by mikethenygfan on Oct 16, 2019 12:23:55 GMT -5
i dont think eli would have thrown as many picks or fumbled as much as jones. Jones is making alot of rookie mistaskes and that’s perfectly fine and expected. I think eli would have at the very least been a better game manager then jones. Your right i doubt eli wins those games the vikings and patriots are 2 really good teams and we have a lot of key injuries. I still think eli is the better qb right now but hes old now and it was the right move to go with jones. Also dont you think if we kept eli in that would mean the coach and gm were actually trying to win which would mean maybe we sign a rb 3 weeks ago or go after one of these vet middle linebackers? Those moves would have greatly impacted the vikings and patriots games. Eli might not have made as many mistakes but he also would not have made many plays Jones made with his arm and feet......not to mention he would have been sacked MANY more times. Had Eli still been starting, the Giants would be 1-5 at best, and would not have scored as much. Give it up, it is over for Eli. give it up? I never called for eli to be the starter again. I said many times im all in on jones. So you give it up.
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Post by Parademon1 on Oct 16, 2019 12:49:19 GMT -5
Lose to Az Sunday & at 2-5, all this positive talk will go away. 10 days off to get healthy, at home vs a 29th ranked D that has trouble stopping the run & an O that has a 5'10 QB behind center. If they can't beat this team, they will have tons of trouble beating anyone else this season. And it would be oh so nice to see this team leading comfortably going into the 4th qt but it is them, so I expect a last second nail biter cuz for so long, this team hasn't had the talent level to win games by 10+ on a consistent basis like NE does. Last time NY beat opponents by 10+ on consecutive weeks was 2014, in weeks 3-4-5, they beat: Houston 30-17 Redskins 45-14 Atlanta 30-20 To get to 3-2, went 3-8 rest of the way to finish 6-10. murray has been pretty good so i dont get what the 5’10 comment has to do with anything. Also cardinals are getting there all pro corner back from suspension. So you would be fine with a 5'10 QB being the franchise QB of this team? All a DC has to do is have the D-line play a disciplined outside containment on the guy & have him throw from within the pocket as much as possible & you're gonna get 4-5 batted balls minimum, a few picks & lots of incompletions. Don't let him roll out & have open lanes to throw into & he is pretty much neutered as a QB due to his hgt. Put your fastest LBer as a spy on him in obvious passing dns. It isn't rocket science on how to defend & neutralize a QB that's under 6ft tall. If our DC has trouble keeping this QB from hurting us thru the air, he really needs to get canned.
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Post by southerner on Oct 16, 2019 13:18:54 GMT -5
So you think Eli would've been able to make up some of those double digit losses and turn them into a playoff team.. I don't agree with this and I also feel that Jones is currently better than Eli. i dont think eli would have thrown as many picks or fumbled as much as jones. Jones is making alot of rookie mistaskes and that’s perfectly fine and expected. I think eli would have at the very least been a better game manager then jones. Your right i doubt eli wins those games the vikings and patriots are 2 really good teams and we have a lot of key injuries. I still think eli is the better qb right now but hes old now and it was the right move to go with jones. Also dont you think if we kept eli in that would mean the coach and gm were actually trying to win which would mean maybe we sign a rb 3 weeks ago or go after one of these vet middle linebackers? Those moves would have greatly impacted the vikings and patriots games. If Eli had been the QB against the Vikings and Pats, they would have scored less, had more three and outs, and given up more points as the defense would have spent a lot more time on the field. To suggest Eli would have possibly enabled the Giants to beat either or both of these teams is dilusional.
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Post by Parademon1 on Oct 16, 2019 13:28:19 GMT -5
Vikes owned Eli during his career. 2-6 record. 3-3 career record vs NE, including the 2 SBs. So "maybe" with a fully healthy team, Eli coulda gotten a split vs Minn/NE, maybe.
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Post by mikethenygfan on Oct 16, 2019 14:12:00 GMT -5
murray has been pretty good so i dont get what the 5’10 comment has to do with anything. Also cardinals are getting there all pro corner back from suspension. So you would be fine with a 5'10 QB being the franchise QB of this team? All a DC has to do is have the D-line play a disciplined outside containment on the guy & have him throw from within the pocket as much as possible & you're gonna get 4-5 batted balls minimum, a few picks & lots of incompletions. Don't let him roll out & have open lanes to throw into & he is pretty much neutered as a QB due to his hgt. Put your fastest LBer as a spy on him in obvious passing dns. It isn't rocket science on how to defend & neutralize a QB that's under 6ft tall. If our DC has trouble keeping this QB from hurting us thru the air, he really needs to get canned. dude the current front runner for mvp is 5’11.
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Post by mikethenygfan on Oct 16, 2019 14:13:54 GMT -5
i dont think eli would have thrown as many picks or fumbled as much as jones. Jones is making alot of rookie mistaskes and that’s perfectly fine and expected. I think eli would have at the very least been a better game manager then jones. Your right i doubt eli wins those games the vikings and patriots are 2 really good teams and we have a lot of key injuries. I still think eli is the better qb right now but hes old now and it was the right move to go with jones. Also dont you think if we kept eli in that would mean the coach and gm were actually trying to win which would mean maybe we sign a rb 3 weeks ago or go after one of these vet middle linebackers? Those moves would have greatly impacted the vikings and patriots games. If Eli had been the QB against the Vikings and Pats, they would have scored less, had more three and outs, and given up more points as the defense would have spent a lot more time on the field. To suggest Eli would have possibly enabled the Giants to beat either or both of these teams is dilusional. maybe your the delusional one thinking a rookie going through growing pains is the best chance at winning.
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Post by Fletch842 on Oct 16, 2019 14:49:34 GMT -5
So you would be fine with a 5'10 QB being the franchise QB of this team? All a DC has to do is have the D-line play a disciplined outside containment on the guy & have him throw from within the pocket as much as possible & you're gonna get 4-5 batted balls minimum, a few picks & lots of incompletions. Don't let him roll out & have open lanes to throw into & he is pretty much neutered as a QB due to his hgt. Put your fastest LBer as a spy on him in obvious passing dns. It isn't rocket science on how to defend & neutralize a QB that's under 6ft tall. If our DC has trouble keeping this QB from hurting us thru the air, he really needs to get canned. dude the current front runner for mvp is 5’11. That extra inch makes all the difference...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 15:28:22 GMT -5
If Eli had been the QB against the Vikings and Pats, they would have scored less, had more three and outs, and given up more points as the defense would have spent a lot more time on the field. To suggest Eli would have possibly enabled the Giants to beat either or both of these teams is dilusional. maybe your the delusional one thinking a rookie going through growing pains is the best chance at winning. Call me delusional if that's what a person who thinks Jones is the better option then Eli at this point to win games..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2019 15:34:33 GMT -5
Responses like this that makes a claim that it's so easy to "neutralize" players like Russell Wilson or Drew Brees are always fun to read. Of course when it doesn't happen over a long period of time and they end up in the HoF which shows everyone that the best laid out plans might only work in theory.
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Post by Sarcasman on Oct 17, 2019 13:53:19 GMT -5
i dont think eli would have thrown as many picks or fumbled as much as jones. Jones is making alot of rookie mistaskes and that’s perfectly fine and expected. I think eli would have at the very least been a better game manager then jones. Your right i doubt eli wins those games the vikings and patriots are 2 really good teams and we have a lot of key injuries. I still think eli is the better qb right now but hes old now and it was the right move to go with jones. Also dont you think if we kept eli in that would mean the coach and gm were actually trying to win which would mean maybe we sign a rb 3 weeks ago or go after one of these vet middle linebackers? Those moves would have greatly impacted the vikings and patriots games. If Eli had been the QB against the Vikings and Pats, they would have scored less, had more three and outs, and given up more points as the defense would have spent a lot more time on the field. To suggest Eli would have possibly enabled the Giants to beat either or both of these teams is dilusional. lol!
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