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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2019 14:31:55 GMT -5
I'd be a bit surprised if they fired Shurmur, even if we lose the rest of the games. Not shocked, but I do not expect them to fire him. I dont know. We have now had 2 different players publicly admit they either dont know what they are supposed to be doing, or that they haven't practiced for their stated position. Put that together with an obviously furious owner, and my bet is Shurmur is going to be told during this bye week that his ass is on the line. Just MO. You may very well be correct. I just don't expect it. They will rearrange the deck chairs on this Titanic and give Shurmur one more season, this is what I have come to expect from the Giants.
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 14, 2019 14:55:44 GMT -5
I dont know. We have now had 2 different players publicly admit they either dont know what they are supposed to be doing, or that they haven't practiced for their stated position. Put that together with an obviously furious owner, and my bet is Shurmur is going to be told during this bye week that his ass is on the line. Just MO. You may very well be correct. I just don't expect it. They will rearrange the deck chairs on this Titanic and give Shurmur one more season, this is what I have come to expect from the Giants. That’s smart. Let’s move some chairs before the ship sinks.
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Post by krappdetector on Nov 14, 2019 15:06:48 GMT -5
Things not going well is one thing. But if a big part of the reason why things are not going well is that you realize that the HC is incompetent, then IMO it is the right thing to do. Admist the mistake and move on. The only people I've heard say that Shurmur is incompetent (not disagreeing) is the fan base. I don't listen or read anything from the media, so I don't know if they are. The last I checked, neither one has a say. And based on the history during a fof how the Giants operate, they are going to give him more than one year in a full rebuild. Not saying it's the right thing to do. Saying it's the Giants way of doing things. In a full rebuild the number and complexity of variables makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to determine where the weakest links are; that's the nature of the process. When the point arrives that FAILURE IS ESTABLISHED then the evidence must be weighed to determine the causes and action should be taken. I do not think that point has been reached yet, nor is it likely to be reached until next season at the earliest. Until then major decisions made in haste or frustration could aggravate the problem thus setting the process back badly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 15:07:43 GMT -5
Bettcher and Hunter will go before Shurmur. It's the Giants way That’s the Giants way when the head coach was Tom Coughlin. In this case our head coach has done nothing but lose as a head coach. Also the Giants way was to wait till the offseason before making any significant changes. That went out the window when Mara fired McAdoo and Reese mid season. The Giants are a loyal and patient franchise, consistent losing will not always be met with patience. 1st year was another "continuity" year because Mara wanted to try and win with Eli. 2nd year is a total rebuild. That is very different than "consistent" losing year after year. The Giants pulled the trigger on the rebuild KNOWING (me included) that this was likely going to be a worse year than last. It comes as no surprise to them, and I'm surprised it has shocked anyone here. The McAdope and Reese firings IS out of character for the Giants, but it's far from a new pattern. The circumstances of the lockerroom mutiny warranted an immediate and definitive response. Shurmur will get 2020. As a matter of fact, I believe EVERYONE will. Some players will be replaced, but not coaches. If we are not any better by the end of 2020, then all bets are off. I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but that is how it will go down. No matter how much bitching goes on here.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 15:08:49 GMT -5
The only people I've heard say that Shurmur is incompetent (not disagreeing) is the fan base. I don't listen or read anything from the media, so I don't know if they are. The last I checked, neither one has a say. And based on the history during a fof how the Giants operate, they are going to give him more than one year in a full rebuild. Not saying it's the right thing to do. Saying it's the Giants way of doing things. In a full rebuild the number and complexity of variables makes it very difficult, if not impossible, to determine where the weakest links are; that's the nature of the process. When the point arrives that FAILURE IS ESTABLISHED then the evidence must be weighed to determine the causes and action should be taken. I do not think that point has been reached yet, nor is it likely to be reached until next season at the earliest. Until then decisions made in haste or frustration could aggravate the problem thus setting the process back badly. Agreed
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 16:01:55 GMT -5
No. He is a coordinator. A damn good one. But just a coordinator If Baltimore is smart they’ll just pay him HC money to stay. Doubt he even wants a HC job
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2019 16:03:29 GMT -5
I would love Rhule
I would also take Saban if he ever wanted to leave Bama.
Same thing with David Shaw.
I know Shurmur isn’t the answer
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 14, 2019 16:26:09 GMT -5
I hearya.
I do still think that he may not be back next year. Especially if they lose out the rest of the way.
Sorry, but it's not the way they do things, right or wrong. And they EXPECTED (as did I) that the team would be worse this year. They fired McAdoo in his second season....after making the playoffs in his first.
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Post by TEM on Nov 14, 2019 16:26:34 GMT -5
Carrol was 7 and 9 in his 1st 2 seasons in Seattle Right now?......7-9 sounds like heaven. Carol was not in the a rebuild transition.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 14, 2019 16:38:08 GMT -5
lol. Sorry, but I don't agree. 2021 maybe.....but Shurmur will get at least 2 seasons with Jones. Good or bad. you may be right about this but those 2 seasons may not be as HC of the Giants, position coach maybe...
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Post by thetruth on Nov 14, 2019 16:38:39 GMT -5
Sorry, but it's not the way they do things, right or wrong. And they EXPECTED (as did I) that the team would be worse this year. They fired McAdoo in his second season....after making the playoffs in his first. You can't disrespect Eli and get away with it
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 14, 2019 16:41:21 GMT -5
Most of them have jobs, are retired or are dead. Great.. I'm glad to hear this. It's like asking for a brand new bike for Christmas as a kid and getting socks. Shurmur is our socks.. And not the comfortable kind, the ones where the elastic sucks and as you walk the sock goes into your shoe. I had a lot of those kind of socks when I was a kid and they are a pain in the ass..
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 14, 2019 16:48:17 GMT -5
Carrol was 7 and 9 in his 1st 2 seasons in Seattle right now a lot of us would jump at a 7and 9 record and be glad to get it.
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2019 16:50:24 GMT -5
You may very well be correct. I just don't expect it. They will rearrange the deck chairs on this Titanic and give Shurmur one more season, this is what I have come to expect from the Giants. That’s smart. Let’s move some chairs before the ship sinks. What have you seen from the Giants in the last 7 or so years that would lead you to believe they would do something smart?
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 14, 2019 16:52:03 GMT -5
I disagree. Firing your HC because you are in the first year of a rebuild and things aren't going well is a knee jerk over reaction. This is only going to happen in the impatient fan base's head. Shurmur will get at least another year. If it hasn't gotten any better (or gets worse) by the end of that season, then they will fire him. On the question of continuity while things are not going well, all one has to do is look at all the decisions made for the sake of continuity over the last 8 years. Not saying it;s the right way.......but it is the Giants way. As this team continues to lose every week I think that Shurmur could be fired. The current owners now have a history of doing this and that coach had the team winning much more then this current coach. its looking to me that hiring Shurmur was a mistake because he is simply not the right man for this particular job, he might be a good fit somewhere else but right now this is not the place for him because he doesn't have enough HC experience...
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 14, 2019 16:54:56 GMT -5
"Continuity" is why McAdoo was promoted to HC. What I don't quite grasp is: If you are firing your head coach it would mean things are not going well. Why would you want continuity in this situation? exactly, our team was not doing well with TC so we hire McAdoo for continuity..
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Post by jmike on Nov 14, 2019 16:58:23 GMT -5
I think a lot of the arguments are getting jumbled here. Some are discussing what they think will happen, while others are discussing what should happen.
To clarify my stance: What I think will happen is Shurmur will be the HC next season.
What I think should happen is Shurmur and his staff should be let go.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 14, 2019 16:58:45 GMT -5
Firing your HC because you are in the first year of a rebuild and things aren't going well is a knee jerk over reaction. Things not going well is one thing. But if a big part of the reason why things are not going well is that you realize that the HC is incompetent, then IMO it is the right thing to do. Admit the mistake and move on. some times cutting your losses is the right thing to.
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 14, 2019 17:03:51 GMT -5
Sorry, not going to get into the "jmike semantics vortex" with you again. You understood my response perfectly fine. Firing Coughlin was after years of trying everything else. Even then they screwed that up by still keeping Jerry around. No, I do understand your post. It just didn't answer my question. Not semantics, I asked a question and your response didn't make sense as an answer to a question. Why would you want continuity in coaching if you just fired a coach for not performing? And yes, they did screw up keeping Jerry. firing Coughlin and keeping Jerry Reese was a total humiliation to TC and I think he let Mara know that when he snubbed him at the podium..
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 14, 2019 17:07:42 GMT -5
I dont know. We have now had 2 different players publicly admit they either dont know what they are supposed to be doing, or that they haven't practiced for their stated position. Put that together with an obviously furious owner, and my bet is Shurmur is going to be told during this bye week that his ass is on the line. Just MO. You may very well be correct. I just don't expect it. They will rearrange the deck chairs on this Titanic and give Shurmur one more season, this is what I have come to expect from the Giants. if things don't change with this team dramatically in the next few games I see no reason to keep Shurmur on, I like Shurmur but not that much..
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Post by snyder55 on Nov 14, 2019 17:08:55 GMT -5
No. He is a coordinator. A damn good one. But just a coordinator If Baltimore is smart they’ll just pay him HC money to stay. Doubt he even wants a HC job we have a coordinator right now and look what's happening...
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Post by scoostraw on Nov 14, 2019 17:13:51 GMT -5
I had a lot of those kind of socks when I was a kid and they are a pain in the ass.. Sounds like maybe you pulled them up WAY too high.
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Post by TEM on Nov 14, 2019 17:14:12 GMT -5
Carrol was 7 and 9 in his 1st 2 seasons in Seattle right now a lot of us would jump at a 7and 9 record and be glad to get it. As I said Carol was not in the middle of a rebuild . He also did not have a rookie QB . The point I was making. It takes time for a new staff to get a rhythm. Notwithstanding the tribulations that can occur wit a rookie QB and a brand new defense. The only thing that I can find is they did without forethought They did too much too quick. I give them credit for doing so in a robust manner, and taking a chance that it would be a quick fix. In reality most quick fixes create disorder in unpredictable ways I think now they realize this is going to take time to get this team working as a unit.
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Post by Kruunch on Nov 14, 2019 17:23:18 GMT -5
That’s smart. Let’s move some chairs before the ship sinks. What have you seen from the Giants in the last 7 or so years that would lead you to believe they would do something smart? They shut down the old boards. Does that count?
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Post by Morehead State on Nov 14, 2019 17:44:17 GMT -5
What have you seen from the Giants in the last 7 or so years that would lead you to believe they would do something smart? They shut down the old boards. Does that count? Pretty good....
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Post by TCHOF on Nov 14, 2019 19:46:02 GMT -5
Bettcher and Hunter will go before Shurmur. It's the Giants way ..........and Shula ,please let him go first. Why Shula?
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Post by spaceweather on Nov 14, 2019 20:11:28 GMT -5
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Post by DandyDon on Nov 14, 2019 20:59:58 GMT -5
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Post by giantlegacy on Nov 15, 2019 4:05:30 GMT -5
Because we didn't draft Jones to be a game manager (his history in the league as OC every qb was a game manager,which Jackon is albeit in gimmick offense) **** no
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Post by jaymas on Nov 15, 2019 7:09:06 GMT -5
As this team continues to lose every week I think that Shurmur could be fired. The current owners now have a history of doing this and that coach had the team winning much more then this current coach. It happened ONCE and it was because of the "benching" Eli fiasco (that Mara created) and because there was an outright mutiny in the lockerroom. That is not the case this year. It would be crazy to fire a HC after just one year for the rookie QB, and the players like Shurmur. He isn't going anywhere this off season. I don't think they are going to fire Shurmur, though I'd like them to because I don't think he's the guy. Would still love to somehow be wrong. That being said...if he keeps losing, things could be more interesting than we anticipated. At minimum this coaching staff is probably gonna have some changes.
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