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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 9:39:11 GMT -5
It was too coordinated. I know it from the field I am in . Most speeches are ruff drafts and jumbled mess of loop backs to make a point. We have marketing people on staff that refined and edited them to ensure smooth flow of the output of the speech. If you listened to Matt Rhule's speech. It was more of a church sermon than a speech. Probably because he father was a pastor of a congregation. It was also unrefined and had gaffes in it that a HC should never say . Judge's was cohesive. . His speech was too correctly to the point and linier not have had help. You are not born with that kind of writing continuity . That is learned with experience. he's educated, has masters degree, and approaching a Phd. I assume he has written many papers etc. Maybe he had help and maybe he didnt. What does it matter either way? You say its a "learned expereince". Maybe he learned it.....no? Did he prepare and practice it? I am sure he did. Why wouldnt he. I can agree with that.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 12, 2020 9:41:53 GMT -5
he has to start somewhere. You dont get a track record out of thin air. I am sure Judge realizes he's the newbie coach. He will gain respect by respecting the players and coaches. A good coach build enthusiasm. Tall order but it has to be done. I agree. it is a tall order. Can it be done? Especially when players take into account the parameters of their physical well being as important. IMO: that ship has sailed. That is not the NFL today . Playing sick. injured going full bore in practice are not in the arsenal of todays highly paid NFL players. They want to get paid. Taking one for the team and risking IR interferes with that plan. I think that is next to impossible to get all 53 to buy into that mindset. he or any coach will never have "all 53". You get create/leaders and go from there
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2020 9:53:22 GMT -5
Write his speech? It's not politics dude, the guy prepared his own intro haha. And it wasn't the football cliches that impressed everyone it was his speaking ability, confidence, and command of a room. We can all be impressed with those qualities and be excited without thinking he's the next Vince Lombardi. Politicians have speaking ability confidence and command of the room also. They use speech writers. That is not the point I was making. Talk is talk and impressive speech is only a splendid use of vocabulary to ensue an aura of competence. Implementation of stratagem on the other hand has been proven to be much more difficult to master than the word spoken to convey it. Some of the greatest coaches in the NFL have been soft spoken and reserved. Men of few words. It has never been the size of the coaches thesaurus that makes an good NFL coach. It is always been his decision making as it pertains to the situation at hand. I like his ideology , but remain reserved until he proves it to be demonstrated on the field. And the only point I was making is the guy didn't use a speech writer and that was a ridiculous statement. Otherwise...I don't see the need to be the guy that says "slow down he hasn't won anything yet." We get it, no one is saying otherwise. Let people be excited about a guy that actually commands a room after Shurm and Mac.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2020 9:54:12 GMT -5
The talk is the easy part but so many get that wrong too. He sounds sincere and not just "canned" answers. if Judge had a "bad" presser he'd be getting mauled for it. He has to start some where and the presser is the first real exposure ti the fans and the media. He inspires trust right from the start IMO. As I said it was well scripted .He had the right people helping him write his speech.( a good sign for a judge of talent) As far as implementation that is the difficult task. John Mara said that Judge wrote his own speech and had no media training. The speech was the same thing he said in the interview. You don’t introduce your self with a speech written by someone else...
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 9:55:29 GMT -5
As I said it was well scripted .He had the right people helping him write his speech.( a good sign for a judge of talent) As far as implementation that is the difficult task. John Mara said that Judge wrote his own speech and had no media training. The speech was the same thing he said in the interview. You don’t introduce your self with a speech written by someone else... I said I though he had help writing it. It read like it did.
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Post by straightrazorman on Jan 12, 2020 9:56:48 GMT -5
So ... you don’t know. Got it I think he had a speech writer. at the same time you can't say he didn't. My logic is. It sounded as if he did. I respect your opinion, but I don't think he had a speech writer, here's why. The man has been coaching since, when, 2005? That's ample time to develop a strong coaching philosophy. Add to that he's a doctoral candidate whose last step in that endeavor is to defend his thesis, which he wrote. He also seems to me, to be very firm and articulate in explaining his coaching philosophy during interviews with the media in which they are trying (like all reporters) to trip him up. He's, evidently, had this philosophy his whole life due to the way in which he was raised. During his introductory presser he pulled a piece of yellow note paper from his pocket, but I didn't see him referring to it during his opening statement. There were no teleprompters, so he he wasn't reading a prepared text. He knew exactly what he wanted to say and he said it without any stumbling. To me it was very impressive and no-nonsense. I can only hope that he can translate that into performance on the field.
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 10:00:22 GMT -5
Politicians have speaking ability confidence and command of the room also. They use speech writers. That is not the point I was making. Talk is talk and impressive speech is only a splendid use of vocabulary to ensue an aura of competence. Implementation of stratagem on the other hand has been proven to be much more difficult to master than the word spoken to convey it. Some of the greatest coaches in the NFL have been soft spoken and reserved. Men of few words. It has never been the size of the coaches thesaurus that makes an good NFL coach. It is always been his decision making as it pertains to the situation at hand. I like his ideology , but remain reserved until he proves it to be demonstrated on the field. And the only point I was making is the guy didn't use a speech writer and that was a ridiculous statement. Otherwise...I don't see the need to be the guy that says "slow down he hasn't won anything yet." We get it, no one is saying otherwise. Let people be excited about a guy that actually commands a room after Shurm and Mac.So I should be part of the flock? Yeah ok. As I said I like what he said. Can he produce what he said? What NFL player is going to blindly follow his you must play injured, play sick put the team before you family? Just those 3 alone are next to impossible to impose. Who today would want to play for A HC under those conditions not named Bill Belichick. At least with NE there is a shot at a ring. After BB is gone that mindset follows.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 12, 2020 10:11:27 GMT -5
And the only point I was making is the guy didn't use a speech writer and that was a ridiculous statement. Otherwise...I don't see the need to be the guy that says "slow down he hasn't won anything yet." We get it, no one is saying otherwise. Let people be excited about a guy that actually commands a room after Shurm and Mac.So I should be part of the flock? Yeah ok. As I said I like what he said. Can he produce what he said? What NFL player is going to blindly follow his you must play injured, play sick put the team before you family? Just those 3 alone are next to impossible to impose. Who today would want to play for A HC under those conditions not named Bill Belichick. At least with NE there is a shot at a ring. After BB is gone that mindset follows. Did Judge say that? I dont remember that As far as "blindly" following. No one expects that.....especially Coach JJ.....
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 10:12:23 GMT -5
I agree. it is a tall order. Can it be done? Especially when players take into account the parameters of their physical well being as important. IMO: that ship has sailed. That is not the NFL today . Playing sick. injured going full bore in practice are not in the arsenal of todays highly paid NFL players. They want to get paid. Taking one for the team and risking IR interferes with that plan. I think that is next to impossible to get all 53 to buy into that mindset. he or any coach will never have "all 53". You get create/leaders and go from there You are side stepping the point. What players in todays NFL would do what he wants player to conform to? I think the only ones that will buy into it is the getting paid league minimum and practice squad players.
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Post by straightrazorman on Jan 12, 2020 10:13:02 GMT -5
So I should be part of the flock? Yeah ok. As I said I like what he said. Can he produce what he said? What NFL player is going to blindly follow his you must play injured, play sick put the team before you family. Jut those 3 alone are next to impossible to impose. I think we are talking about degrees of difference, here. Of course, he's not going to insist that someone who is sick or injured to the point of not being able to function has to practice or play in a game. I think he's trying to say that he wants tough players who will ignore non-dibilitating, nagging injuries or illnesses. He wants tough hard-nosed team players, not prima donnas (like someone I can think of who didn't like drinking water). He has stated that if you don't put in the work, someone who does will take your place on the field and you can sit on the bench.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 12, 2020 10:15:34 GMT -5
he or any coach will never have "all 53". You get create/leaders and go from there You are side stepping the point. What players in todays NFL would do what he wants player to conform to? I think the only ones that will buy into it is the getting paid league minimum and practice squad players. what does he want the players to conform to? What did he say in his presser that pointed out anything unreasonable? I listened to three interviews and never heard anything that sounded like a fantasy in today's NFL
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Jan 12, 2020 10:25:34 GMT -5
How do you know that anyone helped him write his speech? It was too coordinated. I know it from the field I am in . Most speeches are ruff drafts and jumbled mess of loop backs to make a point. We have marketing people on staff that refined and edited them to ensure smooth flow of the output of the speech. If you listened to Matt Rhule's speech. It was more of a church sermon than a speech. Probably because he father was a pastor of a congregation. It was also unrefined and had gaffes in it that a HC should never say . Judge's was cohesive. . His speech was too correctly to the point and linier not have had help. You are not born with that kind of writing continuity . That is learned with experience. This is comedy gold coming from a poster who uses periods in the most bizarre ways. Perhaps you need a speech writer to help with your posts.
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 10:44:13 GMT -5
So I should be part of the flock? Yeah ok. As I said I like what he said. Can he produce what he said? What NFL player is going to blindly follow his you must play injured, play sick put the team before you family? Just those 3 alone are next to impossible to impose. Who today would want to play for A HC under those conditions not named Bill Belichick. At least with NE there is a shot at a ring. After BB is gone that mindset follows. Did Judge say that? I dont remember that As far as "blindly" following. No one expects that.....especially Coach JJ..... Listen to it. He said play sick .play injured issues at home. do not matter . Put it behind you the team must come first. ( para phrased) But that what he was saying. 14:51 to 15:45
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 10:45:08 GMT -5
You are side stepping the point. What players in todays NFL would do what he wants player to conform to? I think the only ones that will buy into it is the getting paid league minimum and practice squad players. what does he want the players to conform to? What did he say in his presser that pointed out anything unreasonable? I listened to three interviews and never heard anything that sounded like a fantasy in today's NFL Look at the section of the video I pointed out.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 12, 2020 10:53:32 GMT -5
Did Judge say that? I dont remember that As far as "blindly" following. No one expects that.....especially Coach JJ..... Listen to it. He said play sick .play injured issues at home. do not matter . Put it behind you the team must come first. ( para phrased) But that what he was saying. 14:51 to 15:45 ah yes....I do remember that. I heard that as basically.....you are paid to play so just be here and play. He also stated elsewhere in the interview that payers are human beings and not robots. So I dont expect him to be unreasonable to a players issues if they are such that they may need to attend to them.
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 11:05:16 GMT -5
Listen to it. He said play sick .play injured issues at home. do not matter . Put it behind you the team must come first. ( para phrased) But that what he was saying. 14:51 to 15:45 ah yes....I do remember that. I heard that as basically.....you are paid to play so just be here and play. He also stated elsewhere in the interview that payers are human beings and not robots. So I dont expect him to be unreasonable to a players issues if they are such that they may need to attend to them. I caught that also. Contradictory statements. You are paid to play..... When is injured or sick, or have family issues that need attending part of the deal? So who is he the proclaimed humanist, or the guy that makes demands on his players that dismiss well being? I don't disagree with what he said. I have the old school mentality also. I also understand the modern NFL player. They lash out if they feel disrespected. As I said, it easier said than it is feasible.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2020 11:15:13 GMT -5
And the only point I was making is the guy didn't use a speech writer and that was a ridiculous statement. Otherwise...I don't see the need to be the guy that says "slow down he hasn't won anything yet." We get it, no one is saying otherwise. Let people be excited about a guy that actually commands a room after Shurm and Mac.So I should be part of the flock? Yeah ok. As I said I like what he said. Can he produce what he said? What NFL player is going to blindly follow his you must play injured, play sick put the team before you family? Just those 3 alone are next to impossible to impose. Who today would want to play for A HC under those conditions not named Bill Belichick. At least with NE there is a shot at a ring. After BB is gone that mindset follows. What flock? The one that liked his press conference? You're taking a position that doesn't need to be taken and acting like you have some sort of original stance by saying "but can he do it?" No one is suggesting that question has been answered.
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 11:29:17 GMT -5
Than what did you mean by this statement?
"Let people be excited about a guy that actually commands a room after Shurm and Mac."
I shouldn't say anything that may question how it is possible to do what he states . That is group think or flock mentality. If I am taking anyone's excitement a way. Than it was built on false pretense. I like his ideas. I question will the mind of the current NFL player be persuaded to do as he suggests" Do what is not best in mind for themselves"
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Post by bringsimmsback on Jan 12, 2020 11:38:51 GMT -5
he has to start somewhere. You dont get a track record out of thin air. I am sure Judge realizes he's the newbie coach. He will gain respect by respecting the players and coaches. A good coach build enthusiasm. Tall order but it has to be done. I agree. it is a tall order. Can it be done? Especially when players take into account the parameters of their physical well being as important. IMO: that ship has sailed. That is not the NFL today . Playing sick. injured going full bore in practice are not in the arsenal of todays highly paid NFL players. They want to get paid. Taking one for the team and risking IR interferes with that plan. I think that is next to impossible to get all 53 to buy into that mindset. It sounded great while he was saying it. When I had time to reflect on his ideology . Is it feasible in todays NFL? That is another side to that you place the team above all else demand. If the players feel disrespected by unreasonable expatiations. The locker room can be lost rapidly. Example: Coach I have a sore knee .I need a few. Get out there and practice. The player blows an MCL. The entire team just witnessed what transpired. What is the scenario after that? Keep in mind that we don't know exactly what he means at this point. Your example seems a bit extreme and isn't how I interpreted his words. I think the medical staff has a lot to say in situations like you described. Another thing to consider is that no matter what he says, he is still limited by the CBA. I do agree, however, that those things he can implement, that push the limits in the name of gaining toughness and a return to fundamentals, will be harder to achieve in today's NFL. There has been an effort to pick "good locker room" guys, however, and the team is disproportionately young so he may have an easier time selling this here than elsewhere. He can also point out - the way you are used to has resulted in years of loosing whereas my way has a proven track record where I come from.
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 11:48:17 GMT -5
I agree. it is a tall order. Can it be done? Especially when players take into account the parameters of their physical well being as important. IMO: that ship has sailed. That is not the NFL today . Playing sick. injured going full bore in practice are not in the arsenal of todays highly paid NFL players. They want to get paid. Taking one for the team and risking IR interferes with that plan. I think that is next to impossible to get all 53 to buy into that mindset. It sounded great while he was saying it. When I had time to reflect on his ideology . Is it feasible in todays NFL? That is another side to that you place the team above all else demand. If the players feel disrespected by unreasonable expatiations. The locker room can be lost rapidly. Example: Coach I have a sore knee .I need a few. Get out there and practice. The player blows an MCL. The entire team just witnessed what transpired. What is the scenario after that? Keep in mind that we don't know exactly what he means at this point. Your example seems a bit extreme and isn't how I interpreted his words. I think the medical staff has a lot to say in situations like you described. Another thing to consider is that no matter what he says, he is still limited by the CBA. I do agree, however, that those things he can implement, that push the limits in the name of gaining toughness and a return to fundamentals, will be harder to achieve in today's NFL. There has been an effort to pick "good locker room" guys, however, and the team is disproportionately young so he may have an easier time selling this here than elsewhere. He can also point out - the way you are used to has resulted in years of loosing whereas my way has a proven track record where I come from. That comment was straight out of BB coaching standards book. I agree with them. You build character through adversity. Belichick has the clout to bring that to the player. IMO: It will take Judge years to gain that kind of trust. As it stands now . He has 2. That is my concern. What is his plan B, if the players want to do what is in their best interests. In todays NFL environment that is the norm. Can he work around that and still field a good team?
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Post by GameTime on Jan 12, 2020 11:58:00 GMT -5
ah yes....I do remember that. I heard that as basically.....you are paid to play so just be here and play. He also stated elsewhere in the interview that payers are human beings and not robots. So I dont expect him to be unreasonable to a players issues if they are such that they may need to attend to them. I caught that also. Contradictory statements. You are paid to play..... When is injured or sick, or have family issues that need attending part of the deal? So who is he the proclaimed humanist, or the guy that makes demands on his players that dismiss well being? I don't disagree with what he said. I have the old school mentality also. I also understand the modern NFL player. They lash out if they feel disrespected. As I said, it easier said than it is feasible. to become a successful NFL HC is no easy task as we all know. Its starts with a good foundation which in Judge's case is currently in progress of being built.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Jan 12, 2020 12:12:26 GMT -5
Keep in mind that we don't know exactly what he means at this point. Your example seems a bit extreme and isn't how I interpreted his words. I think the medical staff has a lot to say in situations like you described. Another thing to consider is that no matter what he says, he is still limited by the CBA. I do agree, however, that those things he can implement, that push the limits in the name of gaining toughness and a return to fundamentals, will be harder to achieve in today's NFL. There has been an effort to pick "good locker room" guys, however, and the team is disproportionately young so he may have an easier time selling this here than elsewhere. He can also point out - the way you are used to has resulted in years of loosing whereas my way has a proven track record where I come from. That comment was straight out of BB coaching standards book. I agree with them. You build character through adversity. Belichick has the clout to bring that to the player. IMO: It will take Judge years to gain that kind of trust. As it stands now . He has 2. That is my concern. What is his plan B, if the players want to do what is in their best interests. In todays NFL environment that is the norm. Can he work around that and still field a good team. BB got it to work before he had the clout so maybe Judge can as well. Judge has the advantage of having some of BB's sheen on him and being way more charismatic than BB (I feel comfortable saying that already, which says something in itself). Of course, he almost definitely isn't the football genius BB is. All is hope and wishes at this point. We keep on referring to BB (and to a lesser extent, Saban), but this guy reminds me more of Coughlin. Coughlin's way worked in Jacksonville without the type of clout BB has and he didn't have to make significant changes until he had to deal with a team with more established veteran leaders here in New York (Strahan reportedly hated him until he "softened" up a bit). Looking at Coughlin and his adjustments may be more illuminating that looking at BB.
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Post by TEM on Jan 12, 2020 12:20:42 GMT -5
I caught that also. Contradictory statements. You are paid to play..... When is injured or sick, or have family issues that need attending part of the deal? So who is he the proclaimed humanist, or the guy that makes demands on his players that dismiss well being? I don't disagree with what he said. I have the old school mentality also. I also understand the modern NFL player. They lash out if they feel disrespected. As I said, it easier said than it is feasible. to become a successful NFL HC is no easy task as we all know. Its starts with a good foundation which in Judge's case is currently in progress of being built. I Agree . It is hard to get better mentors than Saben at the NCAA level BB at the NFl level. IMO the biggest destroyer of a young HC is rigidity and not being able to change their ways of doing things. Forcing a nonworking approach has never produced the desired results no matter how much it is believed in. I think the down fall of our previous two HCs was in part because they lacked flexibility in their mindset. One of the things I did like in his speech and it should hanging on the wall of every HC's office. He basically stated. He will use the opposing team defense against them depending on how well defending the run or pass to dictate how may times he will pass or run.
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Post by GameTime on Jan 12, 2020 12:27:17 GMT -5
to become a successful NFL HC is no easy task as we all know. Its starts with a good foundation which in Judge's case is currently in progress of being built. I Agree . It is hard to get better mentors than Saben at the NCAA level BB at the NFl level. IMO the biggest destroyer of a young HC is rigidity and not being able to change their ways of doing things. Forcing a nonworking approach has never produced the desired results no matter how much it is believed in. I think the down fall of our previous two HCs was in part because they lacked flexibility in their mindset. One of the things I did like in his speech and it should hanging on the wall of every HC's office. He basically stated. He will use the opposing team defense against them depending on how well defending the run or pass to dictate how may times he will pass or run. building a team and not JUST collecting talentflexibilitymultiplesweek to week we changeTackling fundamentalsteacherson timeproper dresswork hardcompete every day for your jobaccountability of the position coachesconcentrate on what we can do and not what we cantall great stuff to build on
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gumby
Special Teams
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Post by gumby on Jan 12, 2020 14:48:05 GMT -5
I'll reserve judgement until after he starts putting in work. Talk is cheap. The questions were asked and even I knew what the proper answer was. Or rather, answers.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jan 12, 2020 23:35:14 GMT -5
I'll reserve judgement until after he starts putting in work. Talk is cheap. The questions were asked and even I knew what the proper answer was. Or rather, answers. So why didn't you apply for the job? I would have voted for you!
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Post by jmike on Jan 13, 2020 9:19:59 GMT -5
Or maybe he is just a good writer? He is most of the way to getting a doctorate, afterall, which would have given him ample opportunity to hone his writing. That could be the case. Being a good write and conveyor of ideas. Is not a indicator of competence as a HC. Only if he can do what he states. that is the hard part. Some of the player incentives he wants to implement . I think is next to impossible. One common theme I have heard about all successful head coaches is that they are good communicators with their players. His ability to write and convey that message in the way he did speaks directly to his communication skills. Which appears to be a necessary prerequisite to being a good HC.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2020 9:27:27 GMT -5
I dont buy that he had a speech writer. He answered 20 minutes of spontaneous questions that backed up every ideology he laid out. The guy is sharp, no doubt. He was prepared. Doesnt strike me as a guy that would have someone else tell him what to say. Theres no one helping him answer all those questions. This isnt an election, the guy already has the job. Ive never heard of that, a head coach have someone else prepare a "speech"; I guess perhaps its happened but ehhh, I dont see someone else telling judge what to say about his own character and beliefs.
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Jan 13, 2020 14:52:26 GMT -5
Judge talks a good game. I like what he said. Everything was scripted to correlate to what is necessary to be a HC. The talk is easy part. The implementation of what he said, will reflect his IQ and what his true resolve is. Was everything scripted with McAdoo too? Well if it was fire whoever told him to wear that suit lmao
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 13, 2020 15:01:33 GMT -5
Judge talks a good game. I like what he said. Everything was scripted to correlate to what is necessary to be a HC. The talk is easy part. The implementation of what he said, will reflect his IQ and what his true resolve is. The talk is the easy part but so many get that wrong too. He sounds sincere and not just "canned" answers. if Judge had a "bad" presser he'd be getting mauled for it. He has to start some where and the presser is the first real exposure ti the fans and the media. He inspires trust right from the start IMO. he went to his interview with out a note pad or anything he talked from what he believed so as far as his press conference goes I believe what you heard and saw was what he is and how he wants his team to operate.
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