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Post by PennState1 on Jan 25, 2021 11:20:24 GMT -5
Watching the Chiefs all year and again last night, gave me extreme TE envy. Having a guy like Kelce is such an advantage as no one can really cover the guy. Thoughts?
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Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 25, 2021 11:26:03 GMT -5
Watching the Chiefs all year and again last night, gave me extreme TE envy. Having a guy like Kelce is such an advantage as no one can really cover the guy. Thoughts? I like Pitts and would be a fan of taking him at 11, but Kelce may be the best TE in NFL history. It's like saying I was watching Brady or Mahomes and think we should take a QB. Pitts is a TE, thats all he and Kelce have in common at this point. The duo of Kelce and Hill is the most dynamic duo in league history. There may have been tandems like Rice and Taylor and Bruce and Holt that were more productive statistics, but Kelce and Hill can't be covered. On the vast majority of plays Mahomes has the option to throw to them in spots where a HS QB can make the pass. We just about never get throws like that created for our QBs. And Im not blaming that on the coaches, you need the guys with that physical skill. We had it with Beckham for awhile before his injuries. We need to get some of that back.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 25, 2021 12:24:46 GMT -5
Unless something terrible happens to Kelce, he's pretty easily going to be the best TE in NFL history. No one, not Tony G, not Gates, Not Gronk, have done what he's been doing for 5 straight years now. He puts up receiver numbers at TE, every. single. year. Maybe Tony G would have had he spent the bulk of his career in a more modern NFL (spent some of his career in it) that really didn't have a problem emphasizing a TE...but Kelce is just incredible.
Also a willing blocker.
A guy like Pitts is super intriguing because you see qualities that remind you of a guy like Kelce, and everyone wants to be the next team that has a guy like that. If we feel good about a receiver in free agency, and smith plus chase are gone in April...I'm down with Pitts. An offense that has Barkley, Pitts, top free agent, shep, and slayton sounds pretty fun to me.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 25, 2021 12:35:47 GMT -5
Watching the Chiefs all year and again last night, gave me extreme TE envy. Having a guy like Kelce is such an advantage as no one can really cover the guy. Thoughts? I like Pitts and would be a fan of taking him at 11, but Kelce may be the best TE in NFL history. It's like saying I was watching Brady or Mahomes and think we should take a QB. Pitts is a TE, thats all he and Kelce have in common at this point. The duo of Kelce and Hill is the most dynamic duo in league history. There may have been tandems like Rice and Taylor and Bruce and Holt that were more productive statistics, but Kelce and Hill can't be covered. On the vast majority of plays Mahomes has the option to throw to them in spots where a HS QB can make the pass. We just about never get throws like that created for our QBs. And Im not blaming that on the coaches, you need the guys with that physical skill. We had it with Beckham for awhile before his injuries. We need to get some of that back. Great offense. All Kelce does it run a few yards and stand there. Average speed and athleticism. There have been more skilled TE's but Kelce is amazingly productive. But there is nothing athletically superior about him as a player. Great hands, great route runner, some quickness. A classic TE. Pitts is a different player entirely.
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Post by lt56 on Jan 25, 2021 12:38:30 GMT -5
Kelce was a 3rd Round Pick! Really don't need to take a TE in the 1st Round to find a good one
Raiders TE Waller one of the Best TE's currently, a 6th Round Pick Receiver converted into a TE.
Packers TE Robert Tonyan was Undrafted and is also a Receiver converted into a TE and had 11 TD's this season
Yeah, I think we can wait on a TE and find one later while Engram is going into his contract year. He is only 26 and he has all the Physical Tools, maybe try to Fix him and get the best out of him before spending yet another 1st on a TE
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Post by fifthavephil on Jan 25, 2021 12:40:18 GMT -5
Kelcie wouldn’t be as effective Without ,there ( Chiefs ) speedy receivers ( Hill, Watkins, Hardiman , Robinson and Pringle ). Plus, Reids offensive play schemes are very modern and there running game is very good.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 25, 2021 12:42:29 GMT -5
Kelcie wouldn’t be as effective Without ,there Chiefs speedy receivers ( Hill, Watkins, Hardiman , Robinson and Pringle ). Plus, Reids offensive play schemes are very modern and there running game is very good. I agree completely. Add in a QB who doesn't ever get sacked and is amazing at slipping the ball through tight windows underneath. They literally threw 10 yards passes all game long. The Bills let themselves get cover 2ed to death.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 25, 2021 13:41:09 GMT -5
I like Pitts and would be a fan of taking him at 11, but Kelce may be the best TE in NFL history. It's like saying I was watching Brady or Mahomes and think we should take a QB. Pitts is a TE, thats all he and Kelce have in common at this point. The duo of Kelce and Hill is the most dynamic duo in league history. There may have been tandems like Rice and Taylor and Bruce and Holt that were more productive statistics, but Kelce and Hill can't be covered. On the vast majority of plays Mahomes has the option to throw to them in spots where a HS QB can make the pass. We just about never get throws like that created for our QBs. And Im not blaming that on the coaches, you need the guys with that physical skill. We had it with Beckham for awhile before his injuries. We need to get some of that back. Great offense. All Kelce does it run a few yards and stand there. Average speed and athleticism. There have been more skilled TE's but Kelce is amazingly productive. But there is nothing athletically superior about him as a player. Great hands, great route runner, some quickness. A classic TE. Pitts is a different player entirely. That average speed and athleticism still gobbles up a lot of yards with all that open space because teams are forced to defend the entire field because of their weapons...
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jan 25, 2021 19:33:51 GMT -5
Kelce is a monster. And with Reids schemes and the safeties having to stay deep. Kelce is so big a DB is so undersized against him. And a LBer is just overmatched.
Pitts might be this type player. He might very well be worth the 11th pick. We would still need the speed guy to open the defense for him. And Pitts is fast enough to play WR. If Saquon comes back strong next year and we would have 2 players like Pitts and a deep threat we could be that crazy team that can't be stopped.
A lot of "ifs".
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Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 26, 2021 9:19:25 GMT -5
Kelcie wouldn’t be as effective Without ,there ( Chiefs ) speedy receivers ( Hill, Watkins, Hardiman , Robinson and Pringle ). Plus, Reids offensive play schemes are very modern and there running game is very good. Kelce has 5 straight 1000 yard seasons and 2 of those came with Alex Smith and predated all the WRs you listed. He's the best TE in league history. Gronk probably holds the title right now, but Kelce isnt slowing down.
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Post by fifthavephil on Jan 26, 2021 10:18:47 GMT -5
Kelcie wouldn’t be as effective Without ,there ( Chiefs ) speedy receivers ( Hill, Watkins, Hardiman , Robinson and Pringle ). Plus, Reids offensive play schemes are very modern and there running game is very good. Kelce has 5 straight 1000 yard seasons and 2 of those came with Alex Smith and predated all the WRs you listed. He's the best TE in league history. Gronk probably holds the title right now, but Kelce isnt slowing down. And Evan (TE ) Engram this year , was a Pro Bowler !!!
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 26, 2021 10:36:14 GMT -5
Kelce was a 3rd Round Pick! Really don't need to take a TE in the 1st Round to find a good one Raiders TE Waller one of the Best TE's currently, a 6th Round Pick Receiver converted into a TE. Packers TE Robert Tonyan was Undrafted and is also a Receiver converted into a TE and had 11 TD's this season Yeah, I think we can wait on a TE and find one later while Engram is going into his contract year. He is only 26 and he has all the Physical Tools, maybe try to Fix him and get the best out of him before spending yet another 1st on a TE I agree with you about finding a good TE after round 1, it just takes is doing your homework before you make a choice..
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 26, 2021 10:37:40 GMT -5
Kelce has 5 straight 1000 yard seasons and 2 of those came with Alex Smith and predated all the WRs you listed. He's the best TE in league history. Gronk probably holds the title right now, but Kelce isnt slowing down. And Evan (TE ) Engram this year , was a Pro Bowler !!! Engram making the pro bowl just goes to show what a farce those selections are...
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Jan 26, 2021 12:10:27 GMT -5
Daniel Jeremiah has Pitts ranked at the #3 overall prospect: www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-1-0"Pitts is a long, lean tight end prospect with excellent speed, ball skills and production. He has lined up inline, flexed in the slot and split out wide. He runs routes like a wideout. The former Gator has burst off the line, sets up defenders and explodes out of the break point. He beat upper-echelon SEC cornerbacks on a weekly basis. He builds speed to separate down the seam and tracks the ball naturally down the field. Pitts has an enormous catch radius. He uses his speed to pile up yards after the catch. He showed tremendous improvement as a blocker in 2020. He fits up, doing his best to wrestle and stay attached. He will fall off at times, but the effort is there. Overall, Pitts is a unique talent with the ability to take over a game. He is the definition of a mismatch player."
He looks like he would be a good pick to me at this point. Whoops, looks like NFL.com automatically redirects the link.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 26, 2021 13:14:07 GMT -5
Kelce was a 3rd Round Pick! Really don't need to take a TE in the 1st Round to find a good one Raiders TE Waller one of the Best TE's currently, a 6th Round Pick Receiver converted into a TE. Packers TE Robert Tonyan was Undrafted and is also a Receiver converted into a TE and had 11 TD's this season Yeah, I think we can wait on a TE and find one later while Engram is going into his contract year. He is only 26 and he has all the Physical Tools, maybe try to Fix him and get the best out of him before spending yet another 1st on a TE I agree with you about finding a good TE after round 1, it just takes is doing your homework before you make a choice.. A bunch of us are all over 2 TEs The guy we call Baby Gronk from Penn state in tbe 2nd Charlie Kolar from Iowa State in the 3rd ... These are more traditional styled guys ..
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 26, 2021 13:20:01 GMT -5
Daniel Jeremiah has Pitts ranked at the #3 overall prospect: www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-1-0"Pitts is a long, lean tight end prospect with excellent speed, ball skills and production. He has lined up inline, flexed in the slot and split out wide. He runs routes like a wideout. The former Gator has burst off the line, sets up defenders and explodes out of the break point. He beat upper-echelon SEC cornerbacks on a weekly basis. He builds speed to separate down the seam and tracks the ball naturally down the field. Pitts has an enormous catch radius. He uses his speed to pile up yards after the catch. He showed tremendous improvement as a blocker in 2020. He fits up, doing his best to wrestle and stay attached. He will fall off at times, but the effort is there. Overall, Pitts is a unique talent with the ability to take over a game. He is the definition of a mismatch player."
He looks like he would be a good pick to me at this point. Whoops, looks like NFL.com automatically redirects the link. A huge segment of this fan base aren't open-minded about players like this on offense because they want Bavaro 2.0 Those guys are the unicorns of TEs.. A guy like this used like he should be,which is a very big bodied hybrid slot playmaker that can be moved all over the field and be a good blocker in a secondary role would indeed he a nightmare.. People ignore the pink elephant in the room regarding Engram in that when he is assigned blocking assignments separated from the tackle box on linebackers and dbs he is really good at this and those blocks help spring 4 yard runs into bigger gash type rums I would be more than OK with him taken at 11
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Post by SG88 on Jan 26, 2021 15:56:35 GMT -5
Count me in for being onboard with Kyle Pitts in Giants blue.
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Post by SG88 on Jan 26, 2021 15:57:56 GMT -5
Daniel Jeremiah has Pitts ranked at the #3 overall prospect: www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-s-top-50-2021-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-1-0"Pitts is a long, lean tight end prospect with excellent speed, ball skills and production. He has lined up inline, flexed in the slot and split out wide. He runs routes like a wideout. The former Gator has burst off the line, sets up defenders and explodes out of the break point. He beat upper-echelon SEC cornerbacks on a weekly basis. He builds speed to separate down the seam and tracks the ball naturally down the field. Pitts has an enormous catch radius. He uses his speed to pile up yards after the catch. He showed tremendous improvement as a blocker in 2020. He fits up, doing his best to wrestle and stay attached. He will fall off at times, but the effort is there. Overall, Pitts is a unique talent with the ability to take over a game. He is the definition of a mismatch player."
He looks like he would be a good pick to me at this point. Whoops, looks like NFL.com automatically redirects the link. A huge segment of this fan base aren't open-minded about players like this on offense because they want Bavaro 2.0 Those guys are the unicorns of TEs.. A guy like this used like he should be,which is a very big bodied hybrid slot playmaker that can be moved all over the field and be a good blocker in a secondary role would indeed he a nightmare.. People ignore the pink elephant in the room regarding Engram in that when he is assigned blocking assignments separated from the tackle box on linebackers and dbs he is really good at this and those blocks help spring 4 yard runs into bigger gash type rums I would be more than OK with him taken at 11 Our fanbase loves living in the past. Even the official site caters to their needs by bringing up stuff that happened more than 10 years ago on a regular basis.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 26, 2021 16:27:52 GMT -5
I agree with you about finding a good TE after round 1, it just takes is doing your homework before you make a choice.. A bunch of us are all over 2 TEs The guy we call Baby Gronk from Penn state in tbe 2nd Charlie Kolar from Iowa State in the 3rd ... These are more traditional styled guys .. if we do take a TE early he better be able to block...
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 26, 2021 16:40:41 GMT -5
A huge segment of this fan base aren't open-minded about players like this on offense because they want Bavaro 2.0 Those guys are the unicorns of TEs.. A guy like this used like he should be,which is a very big bodied hybrid slot playmaker that can be moved all over the field and be a good blocker in a secondary role would indeed he a nightmare.. People ignore the pink elephant in the room regarding Engram in that when he is assigned blocking assignments separated from the tackle box on linebackers and dbs he is really good at this and those blocks help spring 4 yard runs into bigger gash type rums I would be more than OK with him taken at 11 Our fanbase loves living in the past. Even the official site caters to their needs by bringing up stuff that happened more than 10 years ago on a regular basis. BBV is run by someone who openly lives in 1990 and advocates how much he wishes we could build a team exactly like this,right down to going back to the goober cheap bland boring looking GIANTS logo ..... Which os where most of tbe geriatric prehistoric goobers that I rightfully trash post .....
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Post by Kase1 on Jan 26, 2021 17:05:04 GMT -5
Kelce was a 3rd Round Pick! Really don't need to take a TE in the 1st Round to find a good one Raiders TE Waller one of the Best TE's currently, a 6th Round Pick Receiver converted into a TE. Packers TE Robert Tonyan was Undrafted and is also a Receiver converted into a TE and had 11 TD's this season Yeah, I think we can wait on a TE and find one later while Engram is going into his contract year. He is only 26 and he has all the Physical Tools, maybe try to Fix him and get the best out of him before spending yet another 1st on a TE Tom Brady was a 6th round pick, does that mean we dont need to take one in the 1st round Deacon Jones was drafted in the 14th round, does that mean we dont need to draft someone in ANY round to rush the passer Richard Sherman was drafted in the 5th, does that mean we dont need to draft a CB before then This logic is absurd, you draft players you want and need, doesnt mean picks and positions are mutually exclusive. Its not like ANY TE you draft above where Travis Kelce was drafted is a waste of assets. If I had to guess, id say that you were 1 of those people who said Quentin Nelson shouldnt go in the 1st round because he is a guard, right
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Post by Kase1 on Jan 26, 2021 17:05:40 GMT -5
Kyle Pitts is QUICKLY becoming my favorite pick if we miss out on Chase, Smith or Sewell
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 26, 2021 17:12:13 GMT -5
Kelce was a 3rd Round Pick! Really don't need to take a TE in the 1st Round to find a good one Raiders TE Waller one of the Best TE's currently, a 6th Round Pick Receiver converted into a TE. Packers TE Robert Tonyan was Undrafted and is also a Receiver converted into a TE and had 11 TD's this season Yeah, I think we can wait on a TE and find one later while Engram is going into his contract year. He is only 26 and he has all the Physical Tools, maybe try to Fix him and get the best out of him before spending yet another 1st on a TE getting a player like Kelce in the 3rd round is a good example of a team doing its homework really well before the draft..
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 27, 2021 11:29:42 GMT -5
Gronk, Gates, Tony G and Kelce all have something in common. They can catch AND block. If a TE can't block he will struggle to find success catching the ball.
I have finally started watching some games of Pitts and I think he can be successful. He isn't a mauling blocker that blows people off their spot, but he certainly doesn't shy away from blocking and does a decent job keeping lanes open. The only bad parts of his blocking, which many TEs struggle with, is when he has to move and block. He seems to struggle when asked to move in space and block. While in line and planting he does a very good job though.
I'm on board with Pitts. Will our coaches have to develop his blocking more? Yes. But if our coaches can coach/train these players we are doomed no matter who we take. I still prefer a top 3 WR if there, but I got no issue going with Pitts. The added benefit is that we don't have to rely on Engram at that point, or maybe even can trade him for a mid round pick.
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Post by Nite on Jan 27, 2021 13:06:50 GMT -5
We might have a shot at one of the stud WRs since there will be upwards of 4 maybe 5 1st round QBs going into the draft and one of them might fall to us. We need to have at least one bonafide weapon that can at least decoy the defense and open the field to the rest of the players
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Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 27, 2021 13:45:59 GMT -5
The more I think about Pitts, the more I'm against him UNLESS we see him as a WR. This league is AWFUL at identifying special TEs, just awful. And on top of that the position has very few elite players. Kelce, Kittle, Waller, and Andrews are the 4 top at the position in a rather drastic decline even among them. 0 of them were taken in Round 1. The last elite TE taken in Round 1 was Tony G in 1997. Pitts lined up at WR 30% of his snaps. I'm interested to see his 40 time and what type of separation he was able to get off the LOS when facing competent corners at WR. I want to improve this offense, but TE in Round 1 is just too risky. If they see Pitts as the biggest WR in the NFL and decide he has the speed to not have corners draped over him at all times, then great.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 27, 2021 13:57:40 GMT -5
The more I think about Pitts, the more I'm against him UNLESS we see him as a WR. This league is AWFUL at identifying special TEs, just awful. And on top of that the position has very few elite players. Kelce, Kittle, Waller, and Andrews are the 4 top at the position in a rather drastic decline even among them. 0 of them were taken in Round 1. The last elite TE taken in Round 1 was Tony G in 1997. Pitts lined up at WR 30% of his snaps. I'm interested to see his 40 time and what type of separation he was able to get off the LOS when facing competent corners at WR. I want to improve this offense, but TE in Round 1 is just too risky. If they see Pitts as the biggest WR in the NFL and decide he has the speed to not have corners draped over him at all times, then great. How many 6'6 240 lb players have ever been even decent WRs in the league... He is a big bodied hybrid slot WR/H back that can block good enough in secondary roles and a weapon that can be moved all around the field pre snap to cause issues pre snap for the defense Change him into a WR he becomes Funchess 2.0
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Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 27, 2021 14:07:54 GMT -5
The more I think about Pitts, the more I'm against him UNLESS we see him as a WR. This league is AWFUL at identifying special TEs, just awful. And on top of that the position has very few elite players. Kelce, Kittle, Waller, and Andrews are the 4 top at the position in a rather drastic decline even among them. 0 of them were taken in Round 1. The last elite TE taken in Round 1 was Tony G in 1997. Pitts lined up at WR 30% of his snaps. I'm interested to see his 40 time and what type of separation he was able to get off the LOS when facing competent corners at WR. I want to improve this offense, but TE in Round 1 is just too risky. If they see Pitts as the biggest WR in the NFL and decide he has the speed to not have corners draped over him at all times, then great. How many 6'6 240 lb players have ever been even decent WRs in the league... He is a big bodied hybrid slot WR/H back that can block good enough in secondary roles and a weapon that can be moved all around the field pre snap to cause issues pre snap for the defense Change him into a WR he becomes Funchess 2.0 Then don't take him. My point is there are 3 players in the NFL at the TE position whose production you'd want if you could draft it at # 11. Those players are Kelce, Kittle, Waller. None of them were taken in Round 1. Prior to them the elite TEs were Gronk(Round 2), Graham(Round 3), Witten(Round 3) and Gates a converted basketball player. The last time the NFL indentified an elite college TE in Round 1 was Tony G in 1997. Scouts have no clue how to find an elite TE. So the idea Pitts is gonna be that is a pipe dream. The only TE drafted in Round 1 going back to 2000 to have a single 1000 year season was Kellen Winslow, who had 1 and made 1 Pro Bowl before washing out of the league That's going back a 20 year period. We took 2 round 1 TEs in that span.
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Post by Kase1 on Jan 27, 2021 17:10:11 GMT -5
How many 6'6 240 lb players have ever been even decent WRs in the league... He is a big bodied hybrid slot WR/H back that can block good enough in secondary roles and a weapon that can be moved all around the field pre snap to cause issues pre snap for the defense Change him into a WR he becomes Funchess 2.0 Then don't take him. My point is there are 3 players in the NFL at the TE position whose production you'd want if you could draft it at # 11. Those players are Kelce, Kittle, Waller. None of them were taken in Round 1. Prior to them the elite TEs were Gronk(Round 2), Graham(Round 3), Witten(Round 3) and Gates a converted basketball player. The last time the NFL indentified an elite college TE in Round 1 was Tony G in 1997. Scouts have no clue how to find an elite TE. So the idea Pitts is gonna be that is a pipe dream. The only TE drafted in Round 1 going back to 2000 to have a single 1000 year season was Kellen Winslow, who had 1 and made 1 Pro Bowl before washing out of the league That's going back a 20 year period. We took 2 round 1 TEs in that span. So because other productive TE's weren't drafted in the 1st, NO TE should be drafted in the 1st??? If Kelce was in the draft this year would you take him at 11?? Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round, that doesn't mean that no QBs should be drafted before then. Your logic is cheap and shallow
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Post by 80sdreincarnate on Jan 27, 2021 18:14:21 GMT -5
Then don't take him. My point is there are 3 players in the NFL at the TE position whose production you'd want if you could draft it at # 11. Those players are Kelce, Kittle, Waller. None of them were taken in Round 1. Prior to them the elite TEs were Gronk(Round 2), Graham(Round 3), Witten(Round 3) and Gates a converted basketball player. The last time the NFL indentified an elite college TE in Round 1 was Tony G in 1997. Scouts have no clue how to find an elite TE. So the idea Pitts is gonna be that is a pipe dream. The only TE drafted in Round 1 going back to 2000 to have a single 1000 year season was Kellen Winslow, who had 1 and made 1 Pro Bowl before washing out of the league That's going back a 20 year period. We took 2 round 1 TEs in that span. So because other productive TE's weren't drafted in the 1st, NO TE should be drafted in the 1st??? If Kelce was in the draft this year would you take him at 11?? Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round, that doesn't mean that no QBs should be drafted before then. Your logic is cheap and shallow You are cherry picking examples. I am stating:
1) The position has 32 starters, 3 are elite. So the position itself has a 1/11 chance of drafting an impact player, period.
2) It's a proven fact over 20 years that 0 teams have identified a star TE in Round 1
This is not a case of positions having talent throughout the draft, this is over 20 years a constant that good TEs have not been found in Round 1. So whatever the qualities that are being recognized as most important in the top guys is clearly off in some way.
If you disagree tell me the Round 1 TE draft in the 23 years since Tony Gonzalez whose career you would want to draft at # 11 this year if you could?
Pitts is his own guy, but based on this history have scouts gotten smart when it comes to him after missing the boat on how good the top TE in the drafts will be for 2 decades? OJ Howard and Hockerson were the last 2 TEs hyped like this guy. Are their careers to this point turning around the Giants offense?
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