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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 19:48:42 GMT -5
Raanan's opinion ... .... he declared we need an edge, and believes Paye is a 4-3 and a 3-4 projection (seems he sees what I see)...and all edge is a reach at 11. Believes 15-20 they "begin". He also suggests the Giants take Smith/Waddle or Slater before any edge...unless they trade back for edge. Those first 3 picks are offense...a LOT of mocks suggest this as well...most. Again, this is all his opinion...and rehashed. He gives scenarios, "IF" he passes his concussions..."IF" Surtain is there with an Edge...yada. I don't disagree with any of this. Waddle and Smith are my first picks too. But if they're gone along with Slayton, edge comes into play. Trade back or not. I'd take a Surtain before edge, as would Art Stapleton
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Post by McCherry on Apr 17, 2021 19:49:21 GMT -5
I don't disagree with any of this. Waddle and Smith are my first picks too. But if they're gone along with Slayton, edge comes into play. Trade back or not. I'd take a Surtain before edge, as would Art Stapleton I don't think the Giants would. I think they're perfectly ok with taking an edge at 11 if they have to.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 19:58:00 GMT -5
It's so hard being right all the time. If Parsons isn't there, trade back to 15 and get Paye plus picks. Been saying this all along. OK...I believe you can double down on your draft genius status AND school a total draft dufus. Who is the player(s) there at 11 that will bring us the trade? Bonus if you can name the team. New England for Mac Jones
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 19:59:56 GMT -5
I'd take a Surtain before edge, as would Art Stapleton I don't think the Giants would. I think they're perfectly ok with taking an edge at 11 if they have to. I don't see it, and it would be a reach just to gamble on some player with obvious warts, from medical, character to scheme fit Silly mistake to reach for need in any draft... Slater, Smith, Waddle and Surtain before any edge at 11 ... one will be there.
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Post by Delicreep on Apr 17, 2021 20:06:13 GMT -5
OK...I believe you can double down on your draft genius status AND school a total draft dufus. Who is the player(s) there at 11 that will bring us the trade? Bonus if you can name the team. New England for Mac Jones So let it be written...
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Post by McCherry on Apr 17, 2021 20:33:44 GMT -5
I don't think the Giants would. I think they're perfectly ok with taking an edge at 11 if they have to. I don't see it, and it would be a reach just to gamble on some player with obvious warts, from medical, character to scheme fit Silly mistake to reach for need in any draft... Slater, Smith, Waddle and Surtain before any edge at 11 ... one will be there. Again, only if those players aren’t there. And I agree. One should be there but you never know.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 20:39:04 GMT -5
I don't see it, and it would be a reach just to gamble on some player with obvious warts, from medical, character to scheme fit Silly mistake to reach for need in any draft... Slater, Smith, Waddle and Surtain before any edge at 11 ... one will be there. Again, only if those players aren’t there. And I agree. One should be there but you never know. If all are not, that means limited QB's are taken (3)... we should then take a remaining QB Cause if we go edge, we're 6-11 and going new QB with the new GM
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te88
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Post by te88 on Apr 17, 2021 20:41:15 GMT -5
It's so hard being right all the time. If Parsons isn't there, trade back to 15 and get Paye plus picks. Been saying this all along. Ugh I wouldn’t take him at 15 either. These Edge prospects blow 🤮 🤮 🤮
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 21:35:31 GMT -5
It's so hard being right all the time. If Parsons isn't there, trade back to 15 and get Paye plus picks. Been saying this all along. Ugh I wouldn’t take him at 15 either. These Edge prospects blow 🤮 🤮 🤮 Lol...my my....everyone is certainly dramatic in their opinions of things they can't control. Our "knowledge" about any of these things is speculation at best. Some mock drafts have him going in the top 10.
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 17, 2021 21:42:29 GMT -5
Based on the math, I don't see a realistic scenario where Edge is the BPA at #11. There will be plenty of top end talent at other positions of need available. We can grab someone like Collins, Tryon, or Jones later in the draft. Someone else mentioned it, and I actually remember reading or hearing about this last off-season, but I'm not sure if Graham's defense prioritizes the Edge position. While I believe a bonafide Edge player would help any defense, perhaps the story after the draft will be how DG didn't address Edge until Day 3, if at all. If we do go Edge in Round 1, here's what I hope..... - Smith, Pitts, Chase, Waddle, Slater, Sewell, AVT, Parsons, and Surtain are all gone
- We trade back with the Patriots, Bears, or whoever and stack additional draft picks
- Phillips is the name called
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te88
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Post by te88 on Apr 18, 2021 4:49:44 GMT -5
Based on the math, I don't see a realistic scenario where Edge is the BPA at #11. There will be plenty of top end talent at other positions of need available. We can grab someone like Collins, Tryon, or Jones later in the draft. Someone else mentioned it, and I actually remember reading or hearing about this last off-season, but I'm not sure if Graham's defense prioritizes the Edge position. While I believe a bonafide Edge player would help any defense, perhaps the story after the draft will be how DG didn't address Edge until Day 3, if at all. If we do go Edge in Round 1, here's what I hope..... - Smith, Pitts, Chase, Waddle, Slater, Sewell, AVT, Parsons, and Surtain are all gone
- We trade back with the Patriots, Bears, or whoever and stack additional draft picks
- Phillips is the name called
It is true that Edge isn’t as key of a position for this D. They could use more talent there for sure but the OLBs are not where the primary pass rush comes from. The other post you’re taking about actually had it right. In a general sense the OLBs in this D primarily contain to force things into the middle where the big guns are (Williams and Lawrence) This is another reason I have to think they won’t reach for an edge but you never know.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 18, 2021 6:43:03 GMT -5
my thoughts are that there is no way fewer than 3 QBs are getting picked top 10 this year, I'm thinking more like 4, and possibly 5. The prospects that I prefer for us, in order are:
Chase Sewell Pitts Slater Smith Waddle
After that, I would probably rank AVT, Darrisaw, PS II and Parsons all about equal, and would be fine with any of them, if my preferred players are all gone. I would not be upset if they traded down in this scenario either, in fact that would probably be my 7th choice in order. Unless we were offered a really favorable deal, I would not trade down if one of the above is still on the boards.
To me, there is a pretty decent drop off after that, and will be rather pissed off with any other player at 11.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 18, 2021 7:04:51 GMT -5
The problem is that if wait until after the first or second round to draft an Edge, we will be drafting a developmental player (like Carter and Xman) who is unlikely to make a significant contribution in year one.
I would be open to drafting an Edge in the first if: (1) the OT’s, Pitts and the 3 WR’s are gone; AND (2) we trade back.
I also think that we will have some good Edge options in the second, if we go WR/OT in the first
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 18, 2021 8:05:32 GMT -5
Based on the math, I don't see a realistic scenario where Edge is the BPA at #11. There will be plenty of top end talent at other positions of need available. We can grab someone like Collins, Tryon, or Jones later in the draft. Someone else mentioned it, and I actually remember reading or hearing about this last off-season, but I'm not sure if Graham's defense prioritizes the Edge position. While I believe a bonafide Edge player would help any defense, perhaps the story after the draft will be how DG didn't address Edge until Day 3, if at all. If we do go Edge in Round 1, here's what I hope..... - Smith, Pitts, Chase, Waddle, Slater, Sewell, AVT, Parsons, and Surtain are all gone
- We trade back with the Patriots, Bears, or whoever and stack additional draft picks
- Phillips is the name called
It is true that Edge isn’t as key of a position for this D. They could use more talent there for sure but the OLBs are not where the primary pass rush comes from. The other post you’re taking about actually had it right. In a general sense the OLBs in this D primarily contain to force things into the middle where the big guns are (Williams and Lawrence) This is another reason I have to think they won’t reach for an edge but you never know. I tend to agree. Parsons is the only defender I'd be excited to draft, but even he wouldn't be that exciting due to the obvious red flags. My gut tells me Slater, Smith, and Waddle are at the top of DG/JJ's big boards (realistically available at #11). If those three aren't available, I think there's a real chance we trade back. One of the top five QB's should fall to us at 11, making it logical for a team like the Bears or Patriots to pick up the phone. The drop off in talent across the top 50-ish players doesn't seem drastic, so acquiring additional picks would be a smart move.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 18, 2021 8:35:35 GMT -5
The problem is that if wait until after the first or second round to draft an Edge, we will be drafting a developmental player (like Carter and Xman) who is unlikely to make a significant contribution in year one. I would be open to drafting an Edge in the first if: (1) the OT’s, Pitts and the 3 WR’s are gone; AND (2) we trade back. I also think that we will have some good Edge options in the second, if we go WR/OT in the first do you put AVT and Darrisaw in this group? Some people do, some don't, just curious. Personally, I consider them a tier down. slightly.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 18, 2021 9:41:47 GMT -5
Me personally? No.
Just Sewell and Slater. I would put Darrisaw and AVT in the mix for a trade-back scenario
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Post by snyder55 on Apr 18, 2021 10:04:45 GMT -5
It's so hard being right all the time. If Parsons isn't there, trade back to 15 and get Paye plus picks. Been saying this all along. that scenario is starting to look better and better to me, actually I'm not too fond of Parsons behavior but I can over look it just as I did with LT as long as he brings it on the field...
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 18, 2021 11:46:48 GMT -5
As of today. We have $93,201,506 or 50.4% of the cap space dedicated to Offense. And we have $88,992,799 or 48% of the cap spent on Defense. This is showing we have very little Dead Cap and unused money . Statistically teams that spend 44% and over on Offense and 41% and over on Defense make the playoffs 85% of the time. Thank you Tem, I thought that was a very telling stat.
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te88
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Post by te88 on Apr 18, 2021 14:05:50 GMT -5
The problem is that if wait until after the first or second round to draft an Edge, we will be drafting a developmental player (like Carter and Xman) who is unlikely to make a significant contribution in year one. I would be open to drafting an Edge in the first if: (1) the OT’s, Pitts and the 3 WR’s are gone; AND (2) we trade back. I also think that we will have some good Edge options in the second, if we go WR/OT in the first The Edges are 2nd round caliber prospects. If there was a way to get one of them in the 2nd or late in the first then that I could stomach. They all have issues. Plenty of better players to take in the top 20 picks though. I doubt the Giants will draft a 1st round OL but I would take one of the “second tier” OL before an edge even in a trade back to 15-20. I would only trade back if some of these top guys (WRs and OL) are all cleaned out before 11. Otherwise I don’t think a trade back gets you enough to make it worth leaving one of those guys on the table. I would also support drafting Surtain at 11. He and Parsons are the only defenders worth it. Best case for trade back is you get some desperate fool like Ryan Pace call up and overbid in a panic so he can draft a QB that slid.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 18, 2021 15:37:34 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 15:46:36 GMT -5
Yeah, that stands out on film Exactly...not sure why he's in discussion for us...he's a scheme nightmare. This is the most important aspect of drafting...scheme fit. Thanks for the link GL...he's a 4-3 hand in the dirt DE...and not even in that scheme is he a worth an 11 pick. Just need to watch some film on him and you see a good player, in a 4-3.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 18, 2021 15:47:36 GMT -5
Yeah, that stands out on film Exactly...not sure why he's in discussion for us...he's a scheme nightmare. This is the most important aspect of drafting...scheme fit. Thanks for the link GL...he's a 4-3 hand in the dirt DE...and not even in that scheme is he a worth an 11 pick. Just need to watch some film on him and you see a good player, in a 4-3. Yet look at the groupies in the comments that trash Chris' evaluation of him ..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 15:53:21 GMT -5
Yeah, that stands out on film Exactly...not sure why he's in discussion for us...he's a scheme nightmare. This is the most important aspect of drafting...scheme fit. Thanks for the link GL...he's a 4-3 hand in the dirt DE...and not even in that scheme is he a worth an 11 pick. Just need to watch some film on him and you see a good player, in a 4-3. Yet look at the groupies in the comments that trash Chris' evaluation of him .. Haha...yeah, seems some still believe we are still running a 4-3 defense
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 18, 2021 15:54:09 GMT -5
Yet look at the groupies in the comments that trash Chris' evaluation of him .. Haha...yeah, seems some still believe we are still running a 4-3 defense gRaHm cAn sChEmE HiM
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 16:03:22 GMT -5
Haha...yeah, seems some still believe we are still running a 4-3 defense gRaHm cAn sChEmE HiM Haha...I'm believing coach Graham can scheme a bendy OLB whom can move within coverage and blitz....not sure how you utilize Paye in what he does well, vs what he can't do....can't create bend and coverage, or lift a players IQ. We're not talking a Young, Garrett or Bosa here...he's a decent 4-3 hand in the dirt DE....probably a good mid to late first round pick for a team that runs a 4-3 If Parsons had no issues with all that crap, well...he's a player I can see coach Graham scheme away.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 18, 2021 16:13:19 GMT -5
Haha...I'm believing coach Graham can scheme a bendy OLB whom can move within coverage and blitz....not sure how you utilize Paye in what he does well, vs what he can't do....can't create bend and coverage, or lift a players IQ. We're not talking a Young, Garrett or Bosa here...he's a decent 4-3 hand in the dirt DE....probably a good mid to late first round pick for a team that runs a 4-3 If Parsons had no issues with all that crap, well...he's a player I can see coach Graham scheme away. If Parsons had no personal issues he would be the first defensive player taken and probably top 7 Remember all of us were mocking him willingly with our first rounder..especially when it looked like we were going to be in tbe 7-12 range in November, Until news of his issues leaked
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 16:24:37 GMT -5
Haha...I'm believing coach Graham can scheme a bendy OLB whom can move within coverage and blitz....not sure how you utilize Paye in what he does well, vs what he can't do....can't create bend and coverage, or lift a players IQ. We're not talking a Young, Garrett or Bosa here...he's a decent 4-3 hand in the dirt DE....probably a good mid to late first round pick for a team that runs a 4-3 If Parsons had no issues with all that crap, well...he's a player I can see coach Graham scheme away. If Parsons had no personal issues he would be the first defensive player taken and probably top 7 Remember all of us were mocking him willingly with our first rounder..especially when it looked like we were going to be in tbe 7-12 range in November, Until news of his issues leaked Yep we were..those are some serious red flags...but a seriously tight fit on our scheme, with the guy who knows him well. Meh, we need offense this year...Jones needs a WR or 2, a RG and another running back that can catch the ball... in case Barkley has setbacks. If Jones stalls, we're gonna have to make big decisions after this year...oh heard a rumor the Eagles are trying to jump back in front of us for Waddle.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 18, 2021 17:58:26 GMT -5
If Parsons had no personal issues he would be the first defensive player taken and probably top 7 Remember all of us were mocking him willingly with our first rounder..especially when it looked like we were going to be in tbe 7-12 range in November, Until news of his issues leaked Yep we were..those are some serious red flags...but a seriously tight fit on our scheme, with the guy who knows him well. Meh, we need offense this year...Jones needs a WR or 2, a RG and another running back that can catch the ball... in case Barkley has setbacks. If Jones stalls, we're gonna have to make big decisions after this year...oh heard a rumor the Eagles are trying to jump back in front of us for Waddle. Let them. Drafted a WR in the first last year, then use draft capital to move up to take another WR in the first this year? The Matt Millen school of team building
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 19, 2021 6:47:57 GMT -5
Yep we were..those are some serious red flags...but a seriously tight fit on our scheme, with the guy who knows him well. Meh, we need offense this year...Jones needs a WR or 2, a RG and another running back that can catch the ball... in case Barkley has setbacks. If Jones stalls, we're gonna have to make big decisions after this year...oh heard a rumor the Eagles are trying to jump back in front of us for Waddle. Let them. Drafted a WR in the first last year, then use draft capital to move up to take another WR in the first this year? The Matt Millen school of team building exactly what I though of, same goes for the rumors of Dallas moving up for Pitts.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 19, 2021 11:41:01 GMT -5
It's so hard being right all the time. If Parsons isn't there, trade back to 15 and get Paye plus picks. Been saying this all along. that scenario is starting to look better and better to me, actually I'm not too fond of Parsons behavior but I can over look it just as I did with LT as long as he brings it on the field... LT just loved that white, he wasnt an issue in the locker room as far as I know
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