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Post by GameTime on Aug 26, 2021 9:57:06 GMT -5
We allowed Eli to grow but we want Jones to be great year 1 week 1 lol Eli’s first three years as a starter: 11-5 8-8 10-6 *Incredible Super Bowl run/win. Why are you constantly comparing the two? they shouldn't even be compared. The situations were totally different. TC vs Judge Better team to learn under ETC... However that does not absolve Jones from having to get it done this season or he will be an after thought.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 26, 2021 10:11:43 GMT -5
Hypothetically, if Jones struggles this year to a point where he looks like last year, even with weapons, are you guys ok with looking for a QB next year in the draft or FA? I think you have to. Unfortunately because that might set the clock back. Sadly in this era you can't take 5 to 7 years to develop a franchise QB Gettleman castrated this badly by neglecting to add the talent required outside for him to throw to until he got an edict from Mara
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 26, 2021 10:51:08 GMT -5
Eli’s first three years as a starter: 11-5 8-8 10-6 *Incredible Super Bowl run/win. Why are you constantly comparing the two? they shouldn't even be compared. The situations were totally different. TC vs Judge Better team to learn under ETC... However that does not absolve Jones from having to get it done this season or he will be an after thought. Great moments in corollary stat gathering.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2021 11:28:35 GMT -5
I think you have to. Unfortunately because that might set the clock back. Sadly in this era you can't take 5 to 7 years to develop a franchise QB Gettleman castrated this badly by neglecting to add the talent required outside for him to throw to until he got an edict from Mara Getty has shit the bed with the oline also..
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Post by lt56 on Aug 26, 2021 11:49:40 GMT -5
Not sure what to expect from DJ honestly
if he struggles this season, Garrett likely gets fired and we look to either trade for Aaron Rodgers (wishful thinking) or we use one of our 2 First Round Picks and draft Spencer Rattler, Matt Corral, Sam Howell or whoever is suppose to the top QB's in the 2022 NFL Draft. So yeah DJ needs a break out season no more excuses
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Post by McCherry on Aug 26, 2021 11:55:50 GMT -5
I think you have to. Unfortunately because that might set the clock back. Sadly in this era you can't take 5 to 7 years to develop a franchise QB Gettleman castrated this badly by neglecting to add the talent required outside for him to throw to until he got an edict from Mara I think it was availability more than anything. The Giants made the move for Golloday because it was the first real opportunity since trading Beckham.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 26, 2021 12:07:44 GMT -5
Not sure what to expect from DJ honestly So yeah DJ needs a break out season no more excuses no doubt. Thats the what 2021 is all about
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Post by Kruunch on Aug 26, 2021 14:14:16 GMT -5
Hypothetically, if Jones struggles this year to a point where he looks like last year, even with weapons, are you guys ok with looking for a QB next year in the draft or FA? I think you have to. Unfortunately because that might set the clock back. The clock will be broken at that point. If he musters 11 touchdowns in a 17 game season. He needs to be on the next bus out of town.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2021 14:16:04 GMT -5
my biggest fear, jones looks 'meh', not awful but not too good, and its just kinda in limbo. though im leaning towards he really has to look 'very good' like, we win a couple game because he stepped up in the 4th, ,made some plays in spite of the pocket blowing up around him, or leads a good drive to come from behind. those sorts of things that other peoples quarterbacks seem to do.....
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Post by GameTime on Aug 26, 2021 14:23:05 GMT -5
my biggest fear, jones looks 'meh', not awful but not too good, and its just kinda in limbo. though im leaning towards he really has to look 'very good' like, we win a couple game because he stepped up in the 4th, ,made some plays in spite of the pocket blowing up around him, or leads a good drive to come from behind. those sorts of things that other peoples quarterbacks seem to do..... "meh" wont cut it. He needs to be very good or else he will be replaced next season
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Post by leonperry on Aug 26, 2021 14:34:50 GMT -5
I do not foresee a positive outcome for Jones here; in fact, I see his window slamming shut this year.
This is not because I'm convinced he sucks (I think he eventually will be solid average, but not in a Giant uniform) but because apart from an objective eval of his performance this year, he is to an unusual degree attached to the baggage of others- firstly, DG who made the controversial & unpopular pick & has himself been a controversial overall- and a yet to be successful- GM.
Jones is attached to the baggage of fans who are tired of losing on one hand and the expectation of success in the offense w/ the addition of weapons for Jones to work with (along with the perennial hope for a better OL), and i get the vibe that no patience will be shown to Jones, let alone the team overall, if they do not have a much more successful year than recent years. This is an impartial prediction; I'm not saying it would be justified or not given what has and may yet happen.
Jones also has baggage following Eli and having been compared to Eli, though I think that's really not that much of a factor with most and/ or as some might think.
all this is to say that If DJ is finished after 3 yrs here like Darnold was with the Jets then that doesn't necessarily mean by any means that he got a raw deal and therefore wasn't totally the right call to get rid of him. I am saying that however good he ends up being, for better or worse, will not be good enough in the window I believe he has available to him to continue past this year as this team's QB...
edit: what jedi said is exactly what I would say Jones has to do to come back. Previous yrs that "in between" kind of level would likely have given someone in his place another year to prove himself, I think that will not happen this time around
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Post by GameTime on Aug 27, 2021 10:04:07 GMT -5
10-7
thats the prediction that matters
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Post by myronguyton on Aug 27, 2021 14:29:06 GMT -5
If things go according to my optimism
17 games 4,268 yards passing 63.5% completion percentage 35 passing tds 5 rushing tds 14 int 6 fumbles 12 wins
If they don't
12 games 2,942 yards passing 59.2% completion percentage 15 passing tds 3 rushing tds 7 fumbles 5 wins
And his replacement will be drafted in april 2022
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Aug 30, 2021 2:38:38 GMT -5
DJ will be sacked a record 90 times.
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Post by Rangers13 on Aug 30, 2021 6:36:09 GMT -5
DJ will be sacked a record 90 times. lol, so the good news is those sacks are spread over 17 games vs 16?
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 7:22:12 GMT -5
15 games played 62% completion rate 3800 yards 28 TD’s 15 INT’s 7 fumbles I think this is a winner. Jones needs to stop turning the ball over in the red zone. Does anyone have access to the analytics that break down Jones turnovers in the red zone? It just seems like he turns it over a lot more in the end zone (Maybe 30 - 40%) vs the rest of the field...
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 7:28:24 GMT -5
DJ will be sacked a record 90 times. Dude must be partially shell shocked. At least he is holding onto the ball now instead of fumbling but the Oline looks like garbage again. Also, the problems I predicted for the Oline were from the right side. Now, it appears that Jones needs to worry about his blind side. Thomas gave up 2 sacks and a hold in 1/2 of football? As bad as Solder was in 2019 (And he was very bad), this is worse and Thomas's play falls would make him a bubble player if it weren't for him being drafted #4. What a ****ing mess the line is again..... Edit - I'm not absolving Jones of his errors. Turning the ball over in the endzone are unacceptable and he needs to learn how to eat a sack or throw the ball away. Busted play, under pressure within 1 second. C'mon guy....
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 30, 2021 7:31:15 GMT -5
15 games played 62% completion rate 3800 yards 28 TD’s 15 INT’s 7 fumbles I think this is a winner. Jones needs to stop turning the ball over in the red zone. Does anyone have access to the analytics that break down Jones turnovers in the red zone? It just seems like he turns it over a lot more in the end zone (Maybe 30 - 40%) vs the rest of the field... I think 250 yards a game (over 4K ) for the ywar
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 7:40:14 GMT -5
I think this is a winner. Jones needs to stop turning the ball over in the red zone. Does anyone have access to the analytics that break down Jones turnovers in the red zone? It just seems like he turns it over a lot more in the end zone (Maybe 30 - 40%) vs the rest of the field... I think 250 yards a game (over 4K ) for the ywar I wouldn't be surprised he has the skills. I thought he looked good yesterday (Excluding that ****ing interception) considering Thomas did his best to repeat his early rookie season performance. WTF.... The Patriots are a decent team and the Giants held there own without pretty much any of their off season weapons. The only issue is that Jones hasn't practiced with any of them yet. The Giants are going to need at least 1/4 of a season to get their offense into full gear. Hopefully they can win some low scoring games because I don't see this team putting up more that 24 points on the board early in the year...
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Post by vinnie on Aug 30, 2021 7:47:09 GMT -5
Hypothetically, if Jones struggles this year to a point where he looks like last year, even with weapons, are you guys ok with looking for a QB next year in the draft or FA? For the love of god yes, they should have never drafted him in the first place. I don’t know what to think of him (although I’m not liking what I’ve been seeing) but he was set up to fail from day 1 thanks to our awesome GM. My opinion doesn’t matter though, the 120 year old talking corpse Gil Brandt compared Jones to Peyton Manning and Jones’s coach, Dave Cutliffe (who also happened to coach Eli Manning) said he was a great QB and if that isn’t enough than David Gettleman used the 6th overall pick on Jones so he’s clearly a great QB, we just haven’t tapped into his potential yet.
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Post by DJones19 on Aug 30, 2021 7:52:07 GMT -5
We allowed Eli to grow but we want Jones to be great year 1 week 1 lol Eli’s first three years as a starter: 11-5 8-8 10-6 *Incredible Super Bowl run/win. Why are you constantly comparing the two? Eli 11-5 as a rookie? When Eli was a rookie Hall of Famer Kurt Warner got benched when the team was in the playoff hunt at 5-4 and Eli lost every meaningful that followed. He went 1-6 and won the last game of the season by a couple points, not sure if the other team was playing its starters. Some of the veterans of the Giants were furious..Eli only completed 48% of his passes that year. So it was a miserable start for Manning...much more than Jones's fabled comeback victory against Tampa in Jones's very first game. Jones almost set the TD record for a rookie QB with journeyman head coach Pat Shurmur. Did you know that Jones is the only rookie quarterback in NFL history to throw for 350 passing yards with five touchdowns and zero interceptions in a single game?
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Post by ratbastich on Aug 30, 2021 7:56:57 GMT -5
Hypothetically, if Jones struggles this year to a point where he looks like last year, even with weapons, are you guys ok with looking for a QB next year in the draft or FA? Yes, because some his failings from last year and his rookie year(he can be excused for that one) were things that were knocks on him coming from college (holding the ball too long, throwing it up for grabs, fumbling). If the Giants don't feel he is showing any type of improvement they need to pull the ripcord and take advantage of that extra first round pick. I hope he is the one and I hope he improves significantly so we can use those picks for other needs, but they need to be honest with their assessments and not do things they normally do by holding on to a lost cause in the hopes it gets better (ie. William Joseph, Ereck Flowers).
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 8:00:37 GMT -5
Hypothetically, if Jones struggles this year to a point where he looks like last year, even with weapons, are you guys ok with looking for a QB next year in the draft or FA? For the love of god yes, they should have never drafted him in the first place. I don’t know what to think of him (although I’m not liking what I’ve been seeing) but he was set up to fail from day 1 thanks to our awesome GM. My opinion doesn’t matter though, the 120 year old talking corpse Gil Brandt compared Jones to Peyton Manning and Jones’s coach, Dave Cutliffe (who also happened to coach Eli Manning) said he was a great QB and if that isn’t enough than David Gettleman used the 6th overall pick on Jones so he’s clearly a great QB, we just haven’t tapped into his potential yet. It was his first preseason game and he was under stupid pressure. Im not absolving the guy of that idiotic interception but he looked to be in control of the offense against a decent team. I'm not sold on DJ in the lease (Im at 35% to maybe 40%) he becomes a franchise QB but you also have to understand the conditions that he is operating under. Bad Oline, no Barkely, No Goliday. Forget the Oline for a second, Barkley and Golliday are supposed to be the 2 biggest contributors on offense. Game breaking RB and #1 WR. Just having them on the feild (Healthy or not) would open things up. You didn't like anything you saw in that last drive DJ had? Smith wasn't wide open and the safety was draped all over him.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 30, 2021 8:11:45 GMT -5
For the love of god yes, they should have never drafted him in the first place. I don’t know what to think of him (although I’m not liking what I’ve been seeing) but he was set up to fail from day 1 thanks to our awesome GM. My opinion doesn’t matter though, the 120 year old talking corpse Gil Brandt compared Jones to Peyton Manning and Jones’s coach, Dave Cutliffe (who also happened to coach Eli Manning) said he was a great QB and if that isn’t enough than David Gettleman used the 6th overall pick on Jones so he’s clearly a great QB, we just haven’t tapped into his potential yet. It was his first preseason game and he was under stupid pressure. Im not absolving the guy of that idiotic interception but he looked to be in control of the offense against a decent team. I'm not sold on DJ in the lease (Im at 35% to maybe 40%) he becomes a franchise QB but you also have to understand the conditions that he is operating under. Bad Oline, no Barkely, No Goliday. Forget the Oline for a second, Barkley and Golliday are supposed to be the 2 biggest contributors on offense. Game breaking RB and #1 WR. Just having them on the feild (Healthy or not) would open things up. You didn't like anything you saw in that last drive DJ had? Smith wasn't wide open and the safety was draped all over him. I understand the conditions clearly which is also why I said he was set up to fail from Day 1. Who’s fault was that? I also understand that he led the league in turnovers 2 years ago and threw 11 TD’s and 10 INT’s last year. I don’t care how bad your supporting cast is, that’s f’ing pathetic. I never said I didn’t like anything I saw but let’s be real, those stats are very misleading. Did DJ even throw a pass over 10 yards? You can blame it on the O line, the receivers, etc but this is his 3rd year and I’m done with the excuses. He was the 6th overall pick and the Eagles just traded a 6th round pick for a QB that had better stats than DJ did and was on a worse team. This is looking bad.
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Post by vinnie on Aug 30, 2021 8:14:38 GMT -5
Hypothetically, if Jones struggles this year to a point where he looks like last year, even with weapons, are you guys ok with looking for a QB next year in the draft or FA? Yes, because some his failings from last year and his rookie year(he can be excused for that one) were things that were knocks on him coming from college (holding the ball too long, throwing it up for grabs, fumbling). If the Giants don't feel he is showing any type of improvement they need to pull the ripcord and take advantage of that extra first round pick. I hope he is the one and I hope he improves significantly so we can use those picks for other needs, but they need to be honest with their assessments and not do things they normally do by holding on to a lost cause in the hopes it gets better (ie. William Joseph, Ereck Flowers). Very well said!
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 8:53:08 GMT -5
It was his first preseason game and he was under stupid pressure. Im not absolving the guy of that idiotic interception but he looked to be in control of the offense against a decent team. I'm not sold on DJ in the lease (Im at 35% to maybe 40%) he becomes a franchise QB but you also have to understand the conditions that he is operating under. Bad Oline, no Barkely, No Goliday. Forget the Oline for a second, Barkley and Golliday are supposed to be the 2 biggest contributors on offense. Game breaking RB and #1 WR. Just having them on the feild (Healthy or not) would open things up. You didn't like anything you saw in that last drive DJ had? Smith wasn't wide open and the safety was draped all over him. I understand the conditions clearly which is also why I said he was set up to fail from Day 1. Who’s fault was that? I also understand that he led the league in turnovers 2 years ago and threw 11 TD’s and 10 INT’s last year. I don’t care how bad your supporting cast is, that’s f’ing pathetic. I never said I didn’t like anything I saw but let’s be real, those stats are very misleading. Did DJ even throw a pass over 10 yards? You can blame it on the O line, the receivers, etc but this is his 3rd year and I’m done with the excuses. He was the 6th overall pick and the Eagles just traded a 6th round pick for a QB that had better stats than DJ did and was on a worse team. This is looking bad. He threw a 23 yard TD into tight coverage with a safety draped all over him. Go to 4:27. Jones, like every other QB in the league needs play makers. The best QB's in the league (Jones is not close to this) need play makers. At a minimum, Jones needs his #1 receiver on the field to open things up. Think about it, what Giants WR yesterday would another team love to have? Would any team trade a 3rd round pick for any of the Giants WR's yesterday? Nope... Also, how many deep passes could Jones or any QB throw yesterday behind that Oline. I saw 2-3 defenders getting pressure on Jones during certain plays. Unacceptable. the entire Offensive coaching staff should be running laps today. You aren't developing any young QB if you throw them into these conditions....
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Post by vinnie on Aug 30, 2021 10:35:19 GMT -5
I understand the conditions clearly which is also why I said he was set up to fail from Day 1. Who’s fault was that? I also understand that he led the league in turnovers 2 years ago and threw 11 TD’s and 10 INT’s last year. I don’t care how bad your supporting cast is, that’s f’ing pathetic. I never said I didn’t like anything I saw but let’s be real, those stats are very misleading. Did DJ even throw a pass over 10 yards? You can blame it on the O line, the receivers, etc but this is his 3rd year and I’m done with the excuses. He was the 6th overall pick and the Eagles just traded a 6th round pick for a QB that had better stats than DJ did and was on a worse team. This is looking bad. …You aren't developing any young QB if you throw them into these conditions.... Which is why DG sucks. He drafted a QB with no O line or WR’s. Even if DJ had his new “weapons”, the line sucks so bad they probably wouldn’t even have enough time to get open.
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Post by jb456 on Aug 30, 2021 10:40:25 GMT -5
…You aren't developing any young QB if you throw them into these conditions.... Which is why DG sucks. He drafted a QB with no O line or WR’s. Even if DJ had his new “weapons”, the line sucks so bad they probably wouldn’t even have enough time to get open. It's getting to the point where I don't think many sane people could argue with you. Now, say the Giants move on from Jones in 2022, should they spend a bunch of draft assets to move up and get their guy when the Oline is still a mess? It's a really bad situation because no QB will develop behind the line the Giants currently have. The QB will be defaulted as a 1 or 2 read Qb because there isn't enough time to go through his progressions before getting pulverized....
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Aug 31, 2021 7:12:35 GMT -5
For what it is worth, Fantasy pundits reaction after the 3rd preseason game was drastic. They have all but eliminated Daniel Jones, and any Giant offensive player from real consideration, besides a late round choice of Shepard. It was suggested a new rebuild would probably begin in 2022, signaling this year’s fantasy stats would be very low. There were some still pushing Saquon because of volume, but not many. EVERYONE is avoiding Golliday. I am just the messenger on this one.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 31, 2021 9:11:30 GMT -5
For what it is worth, Fantasy pundits reaction after the 3rd preseason game was drastic. They have all but eliminated Daniel Jones, and any Giant offensive player from real consideration, besides a late round choice of Shepard. It was suggested a new rebuild would probably begin in 2022, signaling this year’s fantasy stats would be very low. There were some still pushing Saquon because of volume, but not many. EVERYONE is avoiding Golliday. I am just the messenger on this one. Let us know when the Madden numbers come out, then we’ll really know when it’s time to panic.
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