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Post by lasion2 on Dec 13, 2021 16:49:09 GMT -5
Chris is John’s brother I thought…?
Anywho. I’m not a big conspiracy guy, but the very recent spat of posts/interviews etc that appear to be pushing blame to DG (obviously warranted) and off Chris smells and awful lot like a pr/marketing campaign
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Post by SG88 on Dec 13, 2021 18:15:33 GMT -5
Banks is on their payroll. He would never single out a person on his paycheck. He would lose his job if he did. No, Banks has never held criticism of the team back ,never. Some people last week were quoting him for speaking out, now he's a puppet because he is going against the Mob. Actually, I have hardly seen people criticizing Chris Mara outside of these message boards. What is this mob you're talking about? The Giants fan public that I interact with away from here is mainly calling for Gettleman's job. When a team is bad for this long, I look at the common denominators. Chris Mara is one of those. The Mara family name is on his paycheck and W2. If he has called them out individually, it would be the first time I've heard about it. |
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Post by SG88 on Dec 13, 2021 18:34:14 GMT -5
This does not mean that he ranks higher than the GM in the front office hierarchy, any more than it means Jonathan Tisch is dictating personnel decisions. Tisch is treasurer whereas player personnel is a directly related to football operations. Dave may indeed have final say on all personnel decisions, but having the president's brother in there sure seems to muddy the picture.
The Giants have been known for years as having too many people involved in their player personnel decision making. It is what it is with this team |
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Post by TEM on Dec 13, 2021 18:44:36 GMT -5
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 13, 2021 19:04:02 GMT -5
CONSPIRACY THEORIES
Psychologists usually attribute belief in conspiracy theories and finding a conspiracy where there is none to a number of psychopathological conditions such as paranoia, schizotypy, narcissism, and insecure attachment,[4] or to a form of cognitive bias called "illusory pattern perception".[5][6] However, the current scientific consensus holds that most conspiracy theorists are not pathological, precisely because their beliefs ultimately rely on cognitive tendencies that are neurologically hardwired in the human species and probably have deep evolutionary origins, including natural inclinations towards anxiety and agency detection
Conspiracy theories usually deny consensus or cannot be proven using the historical or scientific method,
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Dec 13, 2021 19:16:26 GMT -5
This was plausible until they snuck in the part about other teams wanting him. Come on man.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 13, 2021 19:20:30 GMT -5
I know "Fredo" is often the hot take scapegoat here (much like Garrett was) but Carl Banks was just on WFAN and was talking about Chris Mara. Banks was very elusive about his assessment, clearly not being able to discuss his sources or inside information, but he had this message for the fans who are calling for Chris Mara's head on a stake: "You don't know as much about Chris Mara's role and ability as you think you know." He did elaborate a bit more saying that Chris Mara is a highly intelligent football mind that is good at what he does. And that many franchises have reached out for him to be their personnel leader. Banks is a company man. I take his word with that in mind Banks is anything but, he loves the Giants and calls them out, players coaches, GM, he never holds back if he had nothing good to say maybe he wouldn't answer the question but he would not defend him if he didn't believe it to be true. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 13, 2021 19:22:02 GMT -5
And these guys from Giants insider don't pull any punches either they will tell you where it's at. |
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Post by TEM on Dec 13, 2021 19:25:04 GMT -5
CONSPIRACY THEORIESPsychologists usually attribute belief in conspiracy theories and finding a conspiracy where there is none to a number of psychopathological conditions such as paranoia, schizotypy, narcissism, and insecure attachment,[4] or to a form of cognitive bias called "illusory pattern perception".[5][6] However, the current scientific consensus holds that most conspiracy theorists are not pathological, precisely because their beliefs ultimately rely on cognitive tendencies that are neurologically hardwired in the human species and probably have deep evolutionary origins, including natural inclinations towards anxiety and agency detection Conspiracy theories usually deny consensus or cannot be proven using the historical or scientific method, How is it a conspiracy theory if the facts all start with a single event? Chris Mara's rise within the organization in 2011. Is it a coincidence that the entire franchise went into chaos shortly after his appointment to senior VP of PP? How is it same exact problems no matter who the HC and GM are never go away. Conspiracies are mostly based on smoke . There is fire here. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 13, 2021 19:25:48 GMT -5
No, Banks has never held criticism of the team back ,never. Some people last week were quoting him for speaking out, now he's a puppet because he is going against the Mob. Actually, I have hardly seen people criticizing Chris Mara outside of these message boards. What is this mob you're talking about? The Giants fan public that I interact with away from here is mainly calling for Gettleman's job. When a team is bad for this long, I look at the common denominators. Chris Mara is one of those. The Mara family name is on his paycheck and W2. If he has called them out individually, it would be the first time I've heard about it. Pretty sure none of the Mara's are signing checks. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Dec 13, 2021 19:29:55 GMT -5
And these guys from Giants insider don't pull any punches either they will tell you where it's at. And they would know since the are in fact the Giants "insiders."  |
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Post by DandyDon on Dec 13, 2021 19:45:06 GMT -5
This doesn't have to do with any individual in the Giants organization. It has to do with the organization itself.
John Mara thinks hiring GMs and HCs separately, influenced by him is a good idea. Like putting them in competition to each other is a good thing.
He can kick as many objects in his suite as he wants, and leak that to fans as long as he wants. The problem is John Mara. Until he realizes that, nothing much will change.
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Post by allnygin on Dec 13, 2021 19:46:12 GMT -5
oh yeah.. clearly Chris has had no say or impact in decision making over the years.. why's he on the payroll? I don't care who the **** it is, clearly the entire FO including Chris is garbage... you're not a shitty franchise for 10 years if you have the right ppl in place. but lets say banks is correct
"we don't know his ability" like we think we do.. GREAT - idc, give him more say then.. I don't care what it takes whos responsible whos not.. FIX IT
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Post by allnygin on Dec 13, 2021 19:49:31 GMT -5
CONSPIRACY THEORIESPsychologists usually attribute belief in conspiracy theories and finding a conspiracy where there is none to a number of psychopathological conditions such as paranoia, schizotypy, narcissism, and insecure attachment,[4] or to a form of cognitive bias called "illusory pattern perception".[5][6] However, the current scientific consensus holds that most conspiracy theorists are not pathological, precisely because their beliefs ultimately rely on cognitive tendencies that are neurologically hardwired in the human species and probably have deep evolutionary origins, including natural inclinations towards anxiety and agency detection Conspiracy theories usually deny consensus or cannot be proven using the historical or scientific method, First wikipedia now definitions. Nobody was asking. FYI |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 13, 2021 19:52:22 GMT -5
And these guys from Giants insider don't pull any punches either they will tell you where it's at. And they would know since the are in fact the Giants "insiders." LOL good one Rosie keeping it light as usual. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 13, 2021 20:02:13 GMT -5
CONSPIRACY THEORIESPsychologists usually attribute belief in conspiracy theories and finding a conspiracy where there is none to a number of psychopathological conditions such as paranoia, schizotypy, narcissism, and insecure attachment,[4] or to a form of cognitive bias called "illusory pattern perception".[5][6] However, the current scientific consensus holds that most conspiracy theorists are not pathological, precisely because their beliefs ultimately rely on cognitive tendencies that are neurologically hardwired in the human species and probably have deep evolutionary origins, including natural inclinations towards anxiety and agency detection Conspiracy theories usually deny consensus or cannot be proven using the historical or scientific method, How is it a conspiracy theory if the facts all start with a single event? Chris Mara's rise within the organization in 2011. Is it a coincidence that the entire franchise went into chaos shortly after his appointment to senior VP of PP? How is it same exact problems no matter who the HC and GM are never go away. Conspiracies are mostly based on smoke . There is fire here. TEM with all do respect and I am not saying Chris Mara is or isn't the problem. But the problem with the Giants started way before 2011, they had a solid team and nucleus 2006 2007, the trouble with drafting started as early as 2008 or 2009. You don't just get bad in a year, 2012 wheels started falling off the guys from that 2007 nucleus were old and the draft didn't yield their replacements, it has been bad since 2008 the earliest and 2009 the latest as far as drafting goes. That is 13 or 14 years, the problem starts 3 or 4 years before the losing starts when the existing talent is no longer effective. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 13, 2021 20:05:11 GMT -5
oh yeah.. clearly Chris has had no say or impact in decision making over the years.. why's he on the payroll? I don't care who the **** it is, clearly the entire FO including Chris is garbage... you're not a shitty franchise for 10 years if you have the right ppl in place. but lets say banks is correct "we don't know his ability" like we think we do.. GREAT - idc, give him more say then.. I don't care what it takes whos responsible whos not.. FIX IT If they hire from outside the truth will come out, a new GM isn't keeping any dead weight around unless he thinks people can help them win they aren't gonna be around. |
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Post by Martin on Dec 13, 2021 20:09:57 GMT -5
oh yeah.. clearly Chris has had no say or impact in decision making over the years.. why's he on the payroll? I don't care who the **** it is, clearly the entire FO including Chris is garbage... you're not a shitty franchise for 10 years if you have the right ppl in place. but lets say banks is correct "we don't know his ability" like we think we do.. GREAT - idc, give him more say then.. I don't care what it takes whos responsible whos not.. FIX IT If they hire from outside the truth will come out, a new GM isn't keeping any dead weight around unless he thinks people can help them win they aren't gonna be around. Chris Mara isn't going anywhere as long his brother is CEO. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 13, 2021 20:18:08 GMT -5
If they hire from outside the truth will come out, a new GM isn't keeping any dead weight around unless he thinks people can help them win they aren't gonna be around. Chris Mara isn't going anywhere as long his brother is CEO. He might still be working for them but maybe his role would be diminished. |
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te88
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Post by te88 on Dec 13, 2021 21:46:09 GMT -5
The reasons we are left to speculate on Chris are obvious. He is above Gettleman in terms of hierarchy and in charge of player personnel while our personnel is substandard. There is also someone inside this organization who loves to feed the media. I cannot help but think Chris is that man. He is not above Gettleman. He is technically third behind Abrams in terms of structure. They should all go, but the Chris Mara 'Fredo" conspiracy is a pile of nonsense. This is not correct The Hiearchy is: John Mara, President and CEO Chris Mara is a Senior Vice President Gettleman is the only other Senior Vice President Now here is the key part: The Football Operations and Player Personnel departments are SEPARATE, each with their own EVP. Chris does NOT “report” to Dave. His direct report is his brother John. Gettleman as an EVP Football Ops has no power over an equal EVP of Player Personnel. Chris Mara is also in the ownership group for good measure. Please see this org chart: www.giants.com/team/front-office-roster/ |
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te88
Special Teams
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Post by te88 on Dec 13, 2021 21:48:08 GMT -5
This does not mean that he ranks higher than the GM in the front office hierarchy, any more than it means Jonathan Tisch is dictating personnel decisions. Tisch is treasurer whereas player personnel is a directly related to football operations. Dave may indeed have final say on all personnel decisions, but having the president's brother in there sure seems to muddy the picture.
Football Ops and Player Personnel are separate departments each with their own EVP (Chris and Dave). There are only two EVPs in the organization (Chris and Dave). Both report to John Mara, not to each other. www.giants.com/team/front-office-roster/ |
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te88
Special Teams
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Post by te88 on Dec 13, 2021 22:03:28 GMT -5
Chris Mara isn't going anywhere as long his brother is CEO. He might still be working for them but maybe his role would be diminished. Only John can fire him. He’s an SVP. GM is also an SVP and doesn’t have the power. Chris is also in the ownership group in his own right. He only leaves if he does so voluntarily. I’m sure his level of influence ebbs and flows depending on GM and Coach but he was given that SVP title and on paper the entire PP department is his, whereas Football Ops is the GMs. |
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Post by cruzsoldier on Dec 13, 2021 22:08:50 GMT -5
I know "Fredo" is often the hot take scapegoat here (much like Garrett was) but Carl Banks was just on WFAN and was talking about Chris Mara. Banks was very elusive about his assessment, clearly not being able to discuss his sources or inside information, but he had this message for the fans who are calling for Chris Mara's head on a stake: "You don't know as much about Chris Mara's role and ability as you think you know." He did elaborate a bit more saying that Chris Mara is a highly intelligent football mind that is good at what he does. And that many franchises have reached out for him to be their personnel leader. This sounds like Carl kissing up to management you know he’s an employee of the Giants so I take any opinion of people employed by Mara with a grain of salt. |
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Post by cdngfan on Dec 13, 2021 22:19:54 GMT -5
interesting. I wonder if this is good PR, or true. This is yet another sign that Mara criticism has an impact. Fans looking forward to a new GM would get faster improvement if they just ignored the selection and started banging the “Mara’s step back” drum. A new GM gives relief to our owners, and worse, teaches them that firing people appeases the fan base. It’s why we’re about to have 3 GMs in 5 years and 5 HCs in 6 years. It’s just PR to hide the fact that they can’t figure out what’s wrong. |
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Post by cdngfan on Dec 13, 2021 22:22:56 GMT -5
CONSPIRACY THEORIESPsychologists usually attribute belief in conspiracy theories and finding a conspiracy where there is none to a number of psychopathological conditions such as paranoia, schizotypy, narcissism, and insecure attachment,[4] or to a form of cognitive bias called "illusory pattern perception".[5][6] However, the current scientific consensus holds that most conspiracy theorists are not pathological, precisely because their beliefs ultimately rely on cognitive tendencies that are neurologically hardwired in the human species and probably have deep evolutionary origins, including natural inclinations towards anxiety and agency detection Conspiracy theories usually deny consensus or cannot be proven using the historical or scientific method, How is it a conspiracy theory if the facts all start with a single event? Chris Mara's rise within the organization in 2011. Is it a coincidence that the entire franchise went into chaos shortly after his appointment to senior VP of PP? How is it same exact problems no matter who the HC and GM are never go away. Conspiracies are mostly based on smoke . There is fire here. Thank you. The Mara’s aren’t doing it on purpose. They’re not indifferent to how we play as long as the stands are full. Those are conspiracy theories. They just don’t know what they’re doing, and they’re too attached and feel too much responsibility to their family’s legacy to see it. |
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Post by McCherry on Dec 13, 2021 22:32:51 GMT -5
I know "Fredo" is often the hot take scapegoat here (much like Garrett was) but Carl Banks was just on WFAN and was talking about Chris Mara. Banks was very elusive about his assessment, clearly not being able to discuss his sources or inside information, but he had this message for the fans who are calling for Chris Mara's head on a stake: "You don't know as much about Chris Mara's role and ability as you think you know." He did elaborate a bit more saying that Chris Mara is a highly intelligent football mind that is good at what he does. And that many franchises have reached out for him to be their personnel leader. This sounds like Carl kissing up to management you know he’s an employee of the Giants so I take any opinion of people employed by Mara with a grain of salt. Then you don't know Carl. He'd quit before he ever kissed up to management to push their propaganda. |
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Post by allnygin on Dec 13, 2021 22:37:42 GMT -5
I mean from the outside it makes sense, but Carl isn't going to just say what he said for the sake of saying what he's said. If he feels that way there's a reason not just bc he's a "company man".... Its easy to be frustrated as a fan, just get it right this offseason for once.
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Post by McCherry on Dec 13, 2021 22:49:49 GMT -5
He is not above Gettleman. He is technically third behind Abrams in terms of structure. They should all go, but the Chris Mara 'Fredo" conspiracy is a pile of nonsense. This is not correct The Hiearchy is: John Mara, President and CEO Chris Mara is a Senior Vice President Gettleman is the only other Senior Vice President Now here is the key part: The Football Operations and Player Personnel departments are SEPARATE, each with their own EVP. Chris does NOT “report” to Dave. His direct report is his brother John. Gettleman as an EVP Football Ops has no power over an equal EVP of Player Personnel. Chris Mara is also in the ownership group for good measure. Please see this org chart: www.giants.com/team/front-office-roster/Chris Mara is an owner, he can have whatever title he wants... He'll have a nice title next year after everyone else is fired... Gettleman has final say on all personnel decisions. |
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Post by TEM on Dec 14, 2021 4:42:05 GMT -5
How is it a conspiracy theory if the facts all start with a single event? Chris Mara's rise within the organization in 2011. Is it a coincidence that the entire franchise went into chaos shortly after his appointment to senior VP of PP? How is it same exact problems no matter who the HC and GM are never go away. Conspiracies are mostly based on smoke . There is fire here. TEM with all do respect and I am not saying Chris Mara is or isn't the problem. But the problem with the Giants started way before 2011, they had a solid team and nucleus 2006 2007, the trouble with drafting started as early as 2008 or 2009. You don't just get bad in a year, 2012 wheels started falling off the guys from that 2007 nucleus were old and the draft didn't yield their replacements, it has been bad since 2008 the earliest and 2009 the latest as far as drafting goes. That is 13 or 14 years, the problem starts 3 or 4 years before the losing starts when the existing talent is no longer effective. I agree it probably started before it. But statistically you have to go on when the problem started. We had proven Superbowl winning QB. Chris comes in and all of a sudden, we can't win? KG is scapegoated, logic goes out the window.. Here we are today. When you look at what is going on here . There is only one conclusion that can be made . The Maras are not stupid, John is a lawyer. Chris was a scout for most of his life. So why can these two individule who have been around football their entire life be so inept? The only answer is it is done with purpose to convince Steve Tisch to allow the Maras to have full control of the team once again. Now all of a sudden how great Chris is being injected into the news cycle. He is going to be our next GM, as the brothers wanted before Reese. Tisch put the kibosh on that plan originally. So make the team so bad that Steve is willing to do anything to fix it. That includes allowing the Maras have control of the team. Here is the evidence. How is our Offensive line so bad for going on 9 years straight? 2 GMs, 6 OCs ,7 O-line coaches and 4 HCs and probably (a guess) 30 different offensive linemen in that time frame. Not one inclination of it being better from one season to the next. It defies the laws of averages. It also defies NFL coaching. I do not buy the GMs HCs and O-line coaches are all that incompetent in the exact missing skillset on offensive line philosophy. How does anyone on this board not believe this has been done with purpose? |
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mikethenygfan
Special Teams
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Post by mikethenygfan on Dec 14, 2021 6:57:48 GMT -5
CONSPIRACY THEORIESPsychologists usually attribute belief in conspiracy theories and finding a conspiracy where there is none to a number of psychopathological conditions such as paranoia, schizotypy, narcissism, and insecure attachment,[4] or to a form of cognitive bias called "illusory pattern perception".[5][6] However, the current scientific consensus holds that most conspiracy theorists are not pathological, precisely because their beliefs ultimately rely on cognitive tendencies that are neurologically hardwired in the human species and probably have deep evolutionary origins, including natural inclinations towards anxiety and agency detection Conspiracy theories usually deny consensus or cannot be proven using the historical or scientific method, How is it a conspiracy theory if the facts all start with a single event? Chris Mara's rise within the organization in 2011. Is it a coincidence that the entire franchise went into chaos shortly after his appointment to senior VP of PP? How is it same exact problems no matter who the HC and GM are never go away. Conspiracies are mostly based on smoke . There is fire here. i know the giants won the superbowl in 2011 but they were in decline before that especially the oline. They failed to replace alot of the big names that were getting old. |
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