Modog
Special Teams
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Post by Modog on Dec 15, 2021 14:23:39 GMT -5
Mara has said he believes Joe Judge is a future Bill Belichick. Mara is also on record saying when he interviewed Daniel Jones pre-draft in 2019, he reminded him of a young Eli Manning. An insider recently mentioned Mara is in the room on EVERY every decison. Knowing Gettleman will be asked to retire, instead of being fired, I think its pretty obvious alot of the moves made in the DG era were actually influenced by Mara himself. It's about time Giants fans call him out for what he is, a meddling owner. Judge I think he has the ability if given time. As for Mara being a meddling owner ,well, very few people /families that have Billion dollar Companies sit back and do nothing. The problem with that is GM and coaches if they dont do a good job get replaced but when owners are making bad decisions fans are stuck with them. |
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 15, 2021 14:33:14 GMT -5
If the evaluation process by way of scouts and player personnel is flawed then the system is broken. The new GM still gets flawed data. Does the new GM have the ability to fire some in the player personnel and scouting dept? If not expect very similar results as we're getting now. Like an Oline that can't be fixed in 10+ years. Pathetic. Of course, but you're right that the scouting for the 2022 draft is complete. The new GM can make his own assessments, but the draft board is already set. His real influence won't be felt until the '23 draft. That's if they make changes to the scouting department, which I hope they do. yeah if it's Abrahams it'll be set for him. If it's someone else and they've been doing their own scouting, ect, they might have some influence even for the 22 draft and can get who he wants |
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 15, 2021 14:36:14 GMT -5
This was Mara meddling where he should not have been.  lol yup, and classic............  |
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Post by myronguyton29 on Dec 15, 2021 14:37:09 GMT -5
If the evaluation process by way of scouts and player personnel is flawed then the system is broken. The new GM still gets flawed data. Does the new GM have the ability to fire some in the player personnel and scouting dept? If not expect very similar results as we're getting now. Like an Oline that can't be fixed in 10+ years. Pathetic. yes something is terribly wrong. I read the other day that we have four offensive line assistant coaches. Almost one-on-one coaching and we can't get these guys to stop whiffing. wow a cryin freakin shame |
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mendy
Starter
Posts: 4,010
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Post by mendy on Dec 15, 2021 14:48:24 GMT -5
Yes , they can . Cardinals did. Ah yeah, you're right. The cardinals did it. What a precedent EVERY team should follow in suite now. Not what I said. .You said he couldn't , all I was doing is giving an example of it being done. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 15, 2021 14:52:33 GMT -5
Judge I think he has the ability if given time. As for Mara being a meddling owner ,well, very few people /families that have Billion dollar Companies sit back and do nothing. The problem with that is GM and coaches if they dont do a good job get replaced but when owners are making bad decisions fans are stuck with them. Fans are fickle .They can always move on to another team . Owners are just that Owners . |
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,997
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Post by te88 on Dec 15, 2021 14:55:17 GMT -5
Lol thread title: tell me Joe Judge is a bad HC without telling me Joe Judge is a bad HC.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 15, 2021 15:09:51 GMT -5
John Mara needs to clean house last time he canned TC and kept Reese around I don't see this reverse stupidity working any better Judge should go with Gettlemen then make your commitment to the new pairing. Or...............since he likes Judge, Keep Abrams as GM for a year and if it blows up you scrap it all and start new .Dump Judge ,Abrams ,Jones ,Barkley all of it. He will have no fans left in the building the minute the boat starts to rock fans have had enough of the same old same old. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 15:28:24 GMT -5
Mara loves his right hand.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 15, 2021 15:43:29 GMT -5
Or...............since he likes Judge, Keep Abrams as GM for a year and if it blows up you scrap it all and start new .Dump Judge ,Abrams ,Jones ,Barkley all of it. He will have no fans left in the building the minute the boat starts to rock fans have had enough of the same old same old. I don't think that is what the Giants are thinking about. Yes I know it's nice for us fans to feel important and that what we say or do matters to the team we root for but it doesn't . Why, because people will pay , people will always pay because they want to be there when it does turn around it makes it that much sweeter.I know many don't want to hear about the old days but it was worse then. we still had legitimate players and it was still bad , we had good football Coach's in Arnsparger and McVay , Perkins and still nothing and Parcells first year people were mad................but we all know what happen . |
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Post by InDabsWeTrust on Dec 15, 2021 15:45:22 GMT -5
I can't believe as a Yankees to say this that the Mets future with their new owner and possible Buck Showalter as manager has a better future than our Mara owned Giants.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 15:55:30 GMT -5
Not firing Joe Judge after this season would be malpractice, and the worst decision by the Giants in my lifetime. Well there…. a decision we agree on. |
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Post by allnygin on Dec 15, 2021 16:00:54 GMT -5
Ah yeah, you're right. The cardinals did it. What a precedent EVERY team should follow in suite now. Not what I said. .You said he couldn't , all I was doing is giving an example of it being done. I think the larger point went right over your head then. |
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Dec 15, 2021 18:21:21 GMT -5
Not what I said. .You said he couldn't , all I was doing is giving an example of it being done. I think the larger point went right over your head then. Maybe you just didn't do a good job explaining your point? |
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Post by allnygin on Dec 15, 2021 18:29:17 GMT -5
I think the larger point went right over your head then. Maybe you just didn't do a good job explaining your point? Guess so. Might need to remember the need to break things down barney style for folks like you. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Dec 15, 2021 18:53:47 GMT -5
Well I'm a lot older and a Giant fan for over 60 years. This isn't even close to the worse decision the Giants have made in " my lifetime".But I understand your point. I'm not sure at all that Judge doesn't get another year. Most fans agree that a HC deserves that 3rd year. I do think most people feel a new GM is certain. I'm not sure about that. I can't think of another coach who was given a third year after winning less games in their second. Most coaches get two years to at least get the team moving in the right direction. What were those worse decisions in your lifetime? You do make a good point MC, that 3rd year is to finish off what you've built usually. There's a good argument against anything built the last 2 years. The worse decisions I remember since I was watching have been 10 years old in 1957. I year after they won the championship over the Bears. New York was deep Blue in Giant fans all over the place. They shared the same stadium as the Yanks and NY fans were use to winning championships. But by time the 60's came along I was deep into Giant Blue. And after losing 2 consecutive championship games to the Colts Giant coach Jim Lee Howell didn't retire and decided to stay to win another championship. So in '59 with that decision we let Vince Lombardi leaves for G.B. figuring we bring him back when Howell retires.(Maybe the worse decision in Giant history). With that option already decided in '60 Tom Landry leaves to take over an expansion team in Dallas. ( the 2nd worse decision). Both these assts. were under contracts and we let them walk. When Howell retires in 61 Rozelle doesn't let Lombardi to walk out of his contract because the 2 leagues are at war bigtime at this point and he doesn't want to set a precedent and have coaches and players jumping leagues. We get Allie Sherman for 3 years and lose 3 straight championship games. Then whatever happened behind the scenes with Parcells and he's out just before the season. Rumors over his marriage and an affair somewhere in the Giant organization. Who knows ? Nobody ever said. Belichek out in 1 or 2 days so we get Ray Handley. Almost had a seizure as I typed his name. The worse coach in Giant history, Period ! As the 17 years of losing has now started the parade of coaches McVay, Arnsparger ( I actually thought he was going to be good. He was a real good DC under Schula in Miami). Bad drafts, coaches, dopey decision by Wellington Mara. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree, does it ? We have had great decades in the 60's 80's and the Eli era. And now were in this mess. Hope I didn't bore you with what I remember. Hope I made you smile a little. I love this stupid team but boy can they piss you off. Some people have family members like this. |
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 15, 2021 19:18:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure about that. I can't think of another coach who was given a third year after winning less games in their second. Most coaches get two years to at least get the team moving in the right direction. What were those worse decisions in your lifetime? You do make a good point MC, that 3rd year is to finish off what you've built usually. There's a good argument against anything built the last 2 years. The worse decisions I remember since I was watching have been 10 years old in 1957. I year after they won the championship over the Bears. New York was deep Blue in Giant fans all over the place. They shared the same stadium as the Yanks and NY fans were use to winning championships. But by time the 60's came along I was deep into Giant Blue. And after losing 2 consecutive championship games to the Colts Giant coach Jim Lee Howell didn't retire and decided to stay to win another championship. So with that decision we let Vince Lombardi leaves for G.B. figuring we bring him back when Howell retires.(Maybe the worse decision in Giant history). With that option already decided Tom Landry leaves to take over an expansion team in Dallas. ( the 2nd worse decision). Both these assts. were under contracts and we let them walk. When Howell retires in 61 Rozelle doesn't let Lombardi to walk out of his contract because the 2 leagues are at war bigtime at this point and he doesn't want to set a precedent and have coaches and players jumping leagues. We get Allie Sherman for 3 years and lose 3 straight championship games. Then whatever happened behind the scenes with Parcells and he's out just before the season. Rumors over his marriage and an affair somewhere in the Giant organization. Who knows ? Nobody ever said. Belichek out in 1 or 2 days so we get Ray Handley. Almost had a seizure as I typed his name. The worse coach in Giant history, Period ! As the 17 years of losing has now started the parade of coaches McVay, Arnsparger ( I actually thought he was going to be good. He was a real good DC under Schula in Miami). Bad drafts, coaches, dopey decision by Wellington Mara. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree, does it ? We have had great decades in the 60's 80's and the Eli era. And now were in this mess. Hope I didn't bore you with what I remember. Hope I made you smile a little. I love this stupid team but boy can they piss you off. Some people have family members like this. I thought Landry had retired the year before, and Mara essentially recommended him to the newly formed Pokes? At least that's how I remember hearing it (slightly before my time). |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Dec 15, 2021 19:23:03 GMT -5
You do make a good point MC, that 3rd year is to finish off what you've built usually. There's a good argument against anything built the last 2 years. The worse decisions I remember since I was watching have been 10 years old in 1957. I year after they won the championship over the Bears. New York was deep Blue in Giant fans all over the place. They shared the same stadium as the Yanks and NY fans were use to winning championships. But by time the 60's came along I was deep into Giant Blue. And after losing 2 consecutive championship games to the Colts Giant coach Jim Lee Howell didn't retire and decided to stay to win another championship. So with that decision we let Vince Lombardi leaves for G.B. figuring we bring him back when Howell retires.(Maybe the worse decision in Giant history). With that option already decided Tom Landry leaves to take over an expansion team in Dallas. ( the 2nd worse decision). Both these assts. were under contracts and we let them walk. When Howell retires in 61 Rozelle doesn't let Lombardi to walk out of his contract because the 2 leagues are at war bigtime at this point and he doesn't want to set a precedent and have coaches and players jumping leagues. We get Allie Sherman for 3 years and lose 3 straight championship games. Then whatever happened behind the scenes with Parcells and he's out just before the season. Rumors over his marriage and an affair somewhere in the Giant organization. Who knows ? Nobody ever said. Belichek out in 1 or 2 days so we get Ray Handley. Almost had a seizure as I typed his name. The worse coach in Giant history, Period ! As the 17 years of losing has now started the parade of coaches McVay, Arnsparger ( I actually thought he was going to be good. He was a real good DC under Schula in Miami). Bad drafts, coaches, dopey decision by Wellington Mara. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree, does it ? We have had great decades in the 60's 80's and the Eli era. And now were in this mess. Hope I didn't bore you with what I remember. Hope I made you smile a little. I love this stupid team but boy can they piss you off. Some people have family members like this. I thought Landry had retired the year before, and Mara essentially recommended him to the newly formed Pokes? At least that's how I remember hearing it (slightly before my time). Lombardi left in '59 for G.B. and Landry took over Dallas in '60 their expansion year. I'm 99% sure but it was a long time ago. |
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Post by PennState1 on Dec 15, 2021 19:28:50 GMT -5
Mara has said he believes Joe Judge is a future Bill Belichick. Mara is also on record saying when he interviewed Daniel Jones pre-draft in 2019, he reminded him of a young Eli Manning. An insider recently mentioned Mara is in the room on EVERY every decison. Knowing Gettleman will be asked to retire, instead of being fired, I think its pretty obvious alot of the moves made in the DG era were actually influenced by Mara himself. It's about time Giants fans call him out for what he is, a meddling owner. What is there to love? Literally NOTHING! Burn it down |
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 15, 2021 19:28:58 GMT -5
I thought Landry had retired the year before, and Mara essentially recommended him to the newly formed Pokes? At least that's how I remember hearing it (slightly before my time). Lombardi left in '59 for G.B. and Landry took over Dallas in '60 their expansion year. I'm 99% sure but it was a long time ago. yep, I was born in '64, so that was before my time...  |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Dec 15, 2021 19:33:25 GMT -5
Lombardi left in '59 for G.B. and Landry took over Dallas in '60 their expansion year. I'm 99% sure but it was a long time ago. yep, I was born in '64, so that was before my time... You were just getting old enough to get interested during our crapiest period. The 80's era with Simms and LT are your meat and potatoes. You got to see our greatest player ever. |
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Post by Fletch842 on Dec 15, 2021 19:38:42 GMT -5
yep, I was born in '64, so that was before my time... You were just getting old enough to get interested during our crapiest period. The 80's era with Simms and LT are your meat and potatoes. You got to see our greatest player ever. that is right when I started watching regularly. My dad was not a die-hard sports fan, so when I was a kid, was more interested in playing outside. Once I got to college, I discovered the joy of drinking beer and watching football on Sundays, been hooked hard ever since. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Dec 15, 2021 19:42:14 GMT -5
You were just getting old enough to get interested during our crapiest period. The 80's era with Simms and LT are your meat and potatoes. You got to see our greatest player ever. that is right when I started watching regularly. My dad was not a die-hard sports fan, so when I was a kid, was more interested in playing outside. Once I got to college, I discovered the joy of drinking beer and watching football on Sundays, been hooked hard ever since. In the words of Bruce Willis in "Die Hard"... "Welcome to the party pal". (when he threw the dead body from the window on the cop car) |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2021 20:02:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure about that. I can't think of another coach who was given a third year after winning less games in their second. Most coaches get two years to at least get the team moving in the right direction. What were those worse decisions in your lifetime? You do make a good point MC, that 3rd year is to finish off what you've built usually. There's a good argument against anything built the last 2 years. The worse decisions I remember since I was watching have been 10 years old in 1957. I year after they won the championship over the Bears. New York was deep Blue in Giant fans all over the place. They shared the same stadium as the Yanks and NY fans were use to winning championships. But by time the 60's came along I was deep into Giant Blue. And after losing 2 consecutive championship games to the Colts Giant coach Jim Lee Howell didn't retire and decided to stay to win another championship. So in '59 with that decision we let Vince Lombardi leaves for G.B. figuring we bring him back when Howell retires.(Maybe the worse decision in Giant history). With that option already decided in '60 Tom Landry leaves to take over an expansion team in Dallas. ( the 2nd worse decision). Both these assts. were under contracts and we let them walk. When Howell retires in 61 Rozelle doesn't let Lombardi to walk out of his contract because the 2 leagues are at war bigtime at this point and he doesn't want to set a precedent and have coaches and players jumping leagues. We get Allie Sherman for 3 years and lose 3 straight championship games. Then whatever happened behind the scenes with Parcells and he's out just before the season. Rumors over his marriage and an affair somewhere in the Giant organization. Who knows ? Nobody ever said. Belichek out in 1 or 2 days so we get Ray Handley. Almost had a seizure as I typed his name. The worse coach in Giant history, Period ! As the 17 years of losing has now started the parade of coaches McVay, Arnsparger ( I actually thought he was going to be good. He was a real good DC under Schula in Miami). Bad drafts, coaches, dopey decision by Wellington Mara. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree, does it ? We have had great decades in the 60's 80's and the Eli era. And now were in this mess. Hope I didn't bore you with what I remember. Hope I made you smile a little. I love this stupid team but boy can they piss you off. Some people have family members like this. I never heard of that with Parcells. I remember he left shortly after the SuperBowl because he had a heart attack or something, no? |
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Post by Martin on Dec 15, 2021 20:03:59 GMT -5
If the evaluation process by way of scouts and player personnel is flawed then the system is broken. The new GM still gets flawed data. Does the new GM have the ability to fire some in the player personnel and scouting dept? If not expect very similar results as we're getting now. Like an Oline that can't be fixed in 10+ years. Pathetic. But let’s not forget that the scouts can only recommend. They cannot force the team to value the pick the way they do. Take that scout for the Giants who wanted the team to take Brady and Accorsi took Ralph Brown instead.. I know in theory that's the case but this Giants organization seems to run ass backwards so I don't know what real authority a Giants GM really has to make big personnel changes. |
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Post by Martin on Dec 15, 2021 20:06:30 GMT -5
If the evaluation process by way of scouts and player personnel is flawed then the system is broken. The new GM still gets flawed data. Does the new GM have the ability to fire some in the player personnel and scouting dept? If not expect very similar results as we're getting now. Like an Oline that can't be fixed in 10+ years. Pathetic. yes something is terribly wrong. I read the other day that we have four offensive line assistant coaches. Almost one-on-one coaching and we can't get these guys to stop whiffing. Unbelievable, do they also go home with them and prepare lunch? |
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Post by Roosevelt on Dec 15, 2021 20:09:55 GMT -5
Of course the GM can fire scouts.But let’s not forget that the scouts can only recommend. They cannot force the team to value the pick the way they do. Take that scout for the Giants who wanted the team to take Brady and Accorsi took Ralph Brown instead.. I know in theory that's the case but this Giants organization seems to run ass backwards so I don't know what real authority a Giants GM really has to make big personnel changes.
I should have said that "of course the GM can remove any scout not related to the Mara's or Tisch's."
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Post by NAVY2323(ret) on Dec 15, 2021 20:57:46 GMT -5
Another translation:
If you’re expecting an outside the box new age GM hire don’t hold your breath. Maybe we can get another dinosaur who the game is well past to call the shots. F*** this guy.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Dec 15, 2021 21:09:59 GMT -5
You do make a good point MC, that 3rd year is to finish off what you've built usually. There's a good argument against anything built the last 2 years. The worse decisions I remember since I was watching have been 10 years old in 1957. I year after they won the championship over the Bears. New York was deep Blue in Giant fans all over the place. They shared the same stadium as the Yanks and NY fans were use to winning championships. But by time the 60's came along I was deep into Giant Blue. And after losing 2 consecutive championship games to the Colts Giant coach Jim Lee Howell didn't retire and decided to stay to win another championship. So in '59 with that decision we let Vince Lombardi leaves for G.B. figuring we bring him back when Howell retires.(Maybe the worse decision in Giant history). With that option already decided in '60 Tom Landry leaves to take over an expansion team in Dallas. ( the 2nd worse decision). Both these assts. were under contracts and we let them walk. When Howell retires in 61 Rozelle doesn't let Lombardi to walk out of his contract because the 2 leagues are at war bigtime at this point and he doesn't want to set a precedent and have coaches and players jumping leagues. We get Allie Sherman for 3 years and lose 3 straight championship games. Then whatever happened behind the scenes with Parcells and he's out just before the season. Rumors over his marriage and an affair somewhere in the Giant organization. Who knows ? Nobody ever said. Belichek out in 1 or 2 days so we get Ray Handley. Almost had a seizure as I typed his name. The worse coach in Giant history, Period ! As the 17 years of losing has now started the parade of coaches McVay, Arnsparger ( I actually thought he was going to be good. He was a real good DC under Schula in Miami). Bad drafts, coaches, dopey decision by Wellington Mara. The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree, does it ? We have had great decades in the 60's 80's and the Eli era. And now were in this mess. Hope I didn't bore you with what I remember. Hope I made you smile a little. I love this stupid team but boy can they piss you off. Some people have family members like this. I never heard of that with Parcells. I remember he left shortly after the SuperBowl because he had a heart attack or something, no? Yes. He did have a heart attack I think. But I thought that was after he left the Giants. Not sure. But that rumor was around for years. Like I said who knows ? |
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Post by cdngfan on Dec 15, 2021 21:59:42 GMT -5
Mara has said he believes Joe Judge is a future Bill Belichick. Mara is also on record saying when he interviewed Daniel Jones pre-draft in 2019, he reminded him of a young Eli Manning. An insider recently mentioned Mara is in the room on EVERY every decison. Knowing Gettleman will be asked to retire, instead of being fired, I think its pretty obvious alot of the moves made in the DG era were actually influenced by Mara himself. It's about time Giants fans call him out for what he is, a meddling owner. We call out Mara here every other thread. We know of his meddling and lay the entire demise of the Giants at his feet. The problem is, he's the owner and there isn't anything we as fans can do about it. He has to recognize that he is at fault instead of all the GMs and HCs he brings in or fires. Just my opinion, the Mara’s didn’t want to fire Reese, McAdoo, or Garrett when they did. I have no evidence of it other than stories of those hires being greatly favoured by ownership and that the Giants signal all the time that the see mid season firings as panicked management. It certainly doesn’t make any strategic sense to fire mid season other than virtue signalling that they hear the outcry. The more fans talk about how the Mara’s stepping back could help the franchise, the higher the probability it works. Other than supporting the Coughlin hire (who we certainly can’t call a beloved coach like Parcells) John Mara has literally no success hiring a GM or HC. This breaks down to a probability argument for me. Does Mara hire a winner before he realizes he can’t? I think he comes to his senses before he hires a winner. |
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