Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,438
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Post by Modog on Sept 19, 2023 7:36:07 GMT -5
I agree 100%... we were supposed to beat the Cardinals, who are very obviously tanking. DJ played good the second half but he was not perfect. I still feel his ball placement is horrible. Had he hit Hyatt in stride, that was a TD. He also underthrew a few other throws. The one to Slayton was obvious. DJ has a habit of throwing hospital passes to his players. Ones to Waller and Saquon stick out from the other night. Basically a pass to a reciever where a defender will be able to make a play almost immediately. Lack of proper ball placement makes this worse. Our 5th year starter, 40m a year QB should know better.
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Post by jmike on Sept 19, 2023 8:04:00 GMT -5
I agree 100%... we were supposed to beat the Cardinals, who are very obviously tanking. DJ played good the second half but he was not perfect. I still feel his ball placement is horrible. Had he hit Hyatt in stride, that was a TD. He also underthrew a few other throws. The one to Slayton was obvious. DJ has a habit of throwing hospital passes to his players. Ones to Waller and Saquon stick out from the other night. Basically a pass to a reciever where a defender will be able to make a play almost immediately. Lack of proper ball placement makes this worse. Our 5th year starter, 40m a year QB should know better. Could you please provide a game in football where a QB played perfectly for an entire half? Thank you. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Sept 19, 2023 8:14:03 GMT -5
I agree 100%... we were supposed to beat the Cardinals, who are very obviously tanking. DJ played good the second half but he was not perfect. I still feel his ball placement is horrible. Had he hit Hyatt in stride, that was a TD. He also underthrew a few other throws. The one to Slayton was obvious. DJ has a habit of throwing hospital passes to his players. Ones to Waller and Saquon stick out from the other night. Basically a pass to a reciever where a defender will be able to make a play almost immediately. Lack of proper ball placement makes this worse. Our 5th year starter, 40m a year QB should know better. Players don’t tank. And if you watched that game and thought to yourself, “Dobbs is playing like he’s tanking so the Cards get the #1 pick so they can replace me,” then I don’t know what to tell you. |
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,438
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Post by Modog on Sept 19, 2023 8:42:22 GMT -5
I agree 100%... we were supposed to beat the Cardinals, who are very obviously tanking. DJ played good the second half but he was not perfect. I still feel his ball placement is horrible. Had he hit Hyatt in stride, that was a TD. He also underthrew a few other throws. The one to Slayton was obvious. DJ has a habit of throwing hospital passes to his players. Ones to Waller and Saquon stick out from the other night. Basically a pass to a reciever where a defender will be able to make a play almost immediately. Lack of proper ball placement makes this worse. Our 5th year starter, 40m a year QB should know better. Players don’t tank. And if you watched that game and thought to yourself, “Dobbs is playing like he’s tanking so the Cards get the #1 pick so they can replace me,” then I don’t know what to tell you. Players don't tank. Everybody knows this. But Owners, GMs, and even coaches do. |
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Post by shocknaweny on Sept 19, 2023 8:47:04 GMT -5
Next week is the test. Can't believe they have a west coast Thursday game. Ya that's ridiculous |
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,438
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Post by Modog on Sept 19, 2023 8:47:35 GMT -5
I agree 100%... we were supposed to beat the Cardinals, who are very obviously tanking. DJ played good the second half but he was not perfect. I still feel his ball placement is horrible. Had he hit Hyatt in stride, that was a TD. He also underthrew a few other throws. The one to Slayton was obvious. DJ has a habit of throwing hospital passes to his players. Ones to Waller and Saquon stick out from the other night. Basically a pass to a reciever where a defender will be able to make a play almost immediately. Lack of proper ball placement makes this worse. Our 5th year starter, 40m a year QB should know better. Could you please provide a game in football where a QB played perfectly for an entire half? Thank you. Problem is it's not a one game sample size. Good QBs are supposed to make good throws everygame. Sam Howell in his third game had a "Wow" throw to Terry McLaurin. In DJs 4 years I have yet to see DJ do anything close to that |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Sept 19, 2023 8:51:12 GMT -5
Players don’t tank. And if you watched that game and thought to yourself, “Dobbs is playing like he’s tanking so the Cards get the #1 pick so they can replace me,” then I don’t know what to tell you. Players don't tank. Everybody knows this. But Owners, GMs, and even coaches do. You think the owner, GM and coaches of the Cardinals were “very obviously” tanking in week 2? How did that translate onto the field and can you pinpoint a few examples where it was very obvious? Thank you. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Sept 19, 2023 8:53:49 GMT -5
Could you please provide a game in football where a QB played perfectly for an entire half? Thank you. Problem is it's not a one game sample size. Good QBs are supposed to make good throws everygame. Sam Howell in his third game had a "Wow" throw to Terry McLaurin. In DJs 4 years I have yet to see DJ do anything close to that The first and third throws in this montage are almost identical to that Howell throw. |
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Post by inthezone on Sept 19, 2023 9:00:27 GMT -5
Players don't tank. Everybody knows this. But Owners, GMs, and even coaches do. You think the owner, GM and coaches of the Cardinals were “very obviously” tanking in week 2? How did that translate onto the field and can you pinpoint a few examples where it was very obvious? Thank you. One example was the Jones scrambled right with a player in front of him on a long 3rd down and it seemed that defender let him get by him for the 1st down. I'm not saying for sure that this was done on purpose but there is no excuse he didn't tackle Jones short of the 1st and looked real bad. The Giants have had a few secondary players who were allergic to tackling so that could be the case here also. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Sept 19, 2023 9:06:13 GMT -5
You think the owner, GM and coaches of the Cardinals were “very obviously” tanking in week 2? How did that translate onto the field and can you pinpoint a few examples where it was very obvious? Thank you. One example was the Jones scrambled right with a player in front of him on a long 3rd down and it seemed that defender let him get by him for the 1st down. I'm not saying for sure that this was done on purpose but there is no excuse he didn't tackle Jones short of the 1st and looked real bad. The Giants have had a few secondary players who were allergic to tackling so that could be the case here also. I have no words to describe how off base and far of a reach that example is. Sorry. I guess McKinney was tanking for Caleb Williams when he let Dobbs truck him en route to the end zone? |
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,438
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Post by Modog on Sept 19, 2023 9:08:46 GMT -5
Players don't tank. Everybody knows this. But Owners, GMs, and even coaches do. You think the owner, GM and coaches of the Cardinals were “very obviously” tanking in week 2? How did that translate onto the field and can you pinpoint a few examples where it was very obvious? Thank you. Look it's difficult to pinpoint tanking on the field when it comes to coaching. We know the players play hard always. But just look at the cardinals offseason roster moves to get a picture of what they are trying to accomplish www.google.com/amp/s/lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2023/08/31/arizona-cardinals-tanking/amp/ |
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Post by bluebuddha on Sept 19, 2023 9:14:39 GMT -5
Could you please provide a game in football where a QB played perfectly for an entire half? Thank you. Problem is it's not a one game sample size. Good QBs are supposed to make good throws everygame. Sam Howell in his third game had a "Wow" throw to Terry McLaurin. In DJs 4 years I have yet to see DJ do anything close to that What sites give you player breakdown per half and quarter? I am curious. I remember when Cam Newton hung 5 or 6 tds on us with 300 plus yards and 100 plus yards rushing. Nfl.com only has cumulative stats so I can't see what he did in a Quarter. I remember Vick having an insane game too. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2023 9:19:45 GMT -5
Was good they came back, but this will not be the norm.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Sept 19, 2023 9:27:32 GMT -5
You think the owner, GM and coaches of the Cardinals were “very obviously” tanking in week 2? How did that translate onto the field and can you pinpoint a few examples where it was very obvious? Thank you. Look it's difficult to pinpoint tanking on the field when it comes to coaching. We know the players play hard always. But just look at the cardinals offseason roster moves to get a picture of what they are trying to accomplish www.google.com/amp/s/lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2023/08/31/arizona-cardinals-tanking/amp/It’s hard to pinpoint because it doesn’t happen. The thought of NFL players tanking so their team can select a college player, who potentially supplants one of them, is laughable IMO |
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Post by inthezone on Sept 19, 2023 9:36:56 GMT -5
One example was the Jones scrambled right with a player in front of him on a long 3rd down and it seemed that defender let him get by him for the 1st down. I'm not saying for sure that this was done on purpose but there is no excuse he didn't tackle Jones short of the 1st and looked real bad. The Giants have had a few secondary players who were allergic to tackling so that could be the case here also. I have no words to describe how off base and far of a reach that example is. Sorry. I guess McKinney was tanking for Caleb Williams when he let Dobbs truck him en route to the end zone? Hey you asked and that was what came to mind when I saw that play again. Still no excuse he didn't stop Jones short of the 1st and if it was a Giants player who did it I would hope you would be furious like I would be. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Sept 19, 2023 9:40:01 GMT -5
I have no words to describe how off base and far of a reach that example is. Sorry. I guess McKinney was tanking for Caleb Williams when he let Dobbs truck him en route to the end zone? Hey you asked and that was what came to mind when I saw that play again. Still no excuse he didn't stop Jones short of the 1st and if it was a Giants player who did it I would hope you would be furious like I would be. I’ve seen plenty of missed tackles by the Giants. Yes, I’m frustrated when I see it. No, I don’t believe it was intentional in order to hope the Giants move up a spot in the draft 9 months from now. |
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,438
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Post by Modog on Sept 19, 2023 9:43:59 GMT -5
Problem is it's not a one game sample size. Good QBs are supposed to make good throws everygame. Sam Howell in his third game had a "Wow" throw to Terry McLaurin. In DJs 4 years I have yet to see DJ do anything close to that The first and third throws in this montage are almost identical to that Howell throw. I don't know man. To me it looks like DJ puts too much air in his throws, they seem to hang in the air. While Howells pass looks much cleaner, like a guided missle. Maybe this is just the arm strength difference. But what do I know |
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,438
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Post by Modog on Sept 19, 2023 10:01:16 GMT -5
It’s hard to pinpoint because it doesn’t happen. The thought of NFL players tanking so their team can select a college player, who potentially supplants one of them, is laughable IMO We are talking in circles. No one ever said the players tank. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 19, 2023 10:53:57 GMT -5
Could you please provide a game in football where a QB played perfectly for an entire half? Thank you. Problem is it's not a one game sample size. Good QBs are supposed to make good throws everygame. Sam Howell in his third game had a "Wow" throw to Terry McLaurin. In DJs 4 years I have yet to see DJ do anything close to that This doesn't answer my question. |
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Post by jmike on Sept 19, 2023 10:57:04 GMT -5
The first and third throws in this montage are almost identical to that Howell throw. I don't know man. To me it looks like DJ puts too much air in his throws, they seem to hang in the air. While Howells pass looks much cleaner, like a guided missle. Maybe this is just the arm strength difference. But what do I know You probably don't want me to answer that. |
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Post by GameTime on Sept 19, 2023 12:28:47 GMT -5
Could you please provide a game in football where a QB played perfectly for an entire half? Thank you. Problem is it's not a one game sample size. Good QBs are supposed to make good throws everygame. Sam Howell in his third game had a "Wow" throw to Terry McLaurin. In DJs 4 years I have yet to see DJ do anything close to that so thats a "wow" pass to you? Great pass yeah but "wow"? DJ's 31 yard pass to Hyatt last game was a much better pass and more "wow". At least IMO. Or the tight window throw TD to Hodgins. A great pass. You are either biased or dont really watch the games. While Jones is not a bonafide franchise QB yet he has made many passes that rival what you posted. I am taking nothing away from Howell at all mind you. He looks like has all the tools needed to succeed. |
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Merlin
Special Teams
Posts: 401
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Post by Merlin on Sept 19, 2023 12:39:46 GMT -5
It’s hard to pinpoint because it doesn’t happen. The thought of NFL players tanking so their team can select a college player, who potentially supplants one of them, is laughable IMO We are talking in circles. No one ever said the players tank. GMs are the only ones that tank. A coach won't tank as he is usually defined by his record and will be fired after the following season (if not that season) if those prized draft picks don't lead to playoffs or cusp. The extent of a GM tanking is selling off some veteran talent for draft capital, and pushing for the coach to play a younger player with potential over a veteran. Like cutting Mcoy for Dobbs. We only view Cards as tanking due to allowing Murray to take his time healing. And trading down at the draft picking up another future first. Giants were expected to be a rebuilding team last yr and made the playoffs. Chiefs were a retooling team who won the SB. Not saying Cards are a playoff team. But people misevaluate the capabilities of a team every season. They can have a losing record but also possible they compete is almost every game. Lions had a 3-13-1 first year with Dan Campbell. But you could tell it was a team that competed in every game. |
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,438
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Post by Modog on Sept 19, 2023 14:29:49 GMT -5
We are talking in circles. No one ever said the players tank. GMs are the only ones that tank. A coach won't tank as he is usually defined by his record and will be fired after the following season (if not that season) if those prized draft picks don't lead to playoffs or cusp. The extent of a GM tanking is selling off some veteran talent for draft capital, and pushing for the coach to play a younger player with potential over a veteran. Like cutting Mcoy for Dobbs. We only view Cards as tanking due to allowing Murray to take his time healing. And trading down at the draft picking up another future first. Giants were expected to be a rebuilding team last yr and made the playoffs. Chiefs were a retooling team who won the SB. Not saying Cards are a playoff team. But people misevaluate the capabilities of a team every season. They can have a losing record but also possible they compete is almost every game. Lions had a 3-13-1 first year with Dan Campbell. But you could tell it was a team that competed in every game. Coaches do tank but very rarely. It depends on what page the coach and GM are on. The most obvious example of a coach tanking would be Doug Peterson in the last game of the season sitting Jalen Hurts for Nate Sudfield back in 2021 www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2925523-doug-pedersons-eagles-tank-job-wasnt-worth-losing-the-locker-room.amp.html |
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Merlin
Special Teams
Posts: 401
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Post by Merlin on Sept 19, 2023 15:04:55 GMT -5
GMs are the only ones that tank. A coach won't tank as he is usually defined by his record and will be fired after the following season (if not that season) if those prized draft picks don't lead to playoffs or cusp. The extent of a GM tanking is selling off some veteran talent for draft capital, and pushing for the coach to play a younger player with potential over a veteran. Like cutting Mcoy for Dobbs. We only view Cards as tanking due to allowing Murray to take his time healing. And trading down at the draft picking up another future first. Giants were expected to be a rebuilding team last yr and made the playoffs. Chiefs were a retooling team who won the SB. Not saying Cards are a playoff team. But people misevaluate the capabilities of a team every season. They can have a losing record but also possible they compete is almost every game. Lions had a 3-13-1 first year with Dan Campbell. But you could tell it was a team that competed in every game. Coaches do tank but very rarely. It depends on what page the coach and GM are on. The most obvious example of a coach tanking would be Doug Peterson in the last game of the season sitting Jalen Hurts for Nate Sudfield back in 2021 www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2925523-doug-pedersons-eagles-tank-job-wasnt-worth-losing-the-locker-room.amp.htmlSure, but those are completely different circumstances than this past Sunday. Tanking the last game of the season is very different than trying to tank the whole season start to finish. Doug Pederson's benching of Jalen Hurts outraged Eagles players and led to sideline confrontations, per reportPederson then got fired that offseason and didn't get to reap the benefits of the higher pick with Philly. Pederson also won a SB and thought he had the equity to do such a thing.
Arizona letting Murray heal up 110%, trading down in the draft. Favoring some young inexperienced players over a some vets within the team building process is the extent of Cards tanking. Everything else is full throttle. |
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Post by presumablygunner on Sept 20, 2023 5:15:07 GMT -5
Jones Jones Jones 😕
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Post by GameTime on Sept 20, 2023 6:00:55 GMT -5
hope the last 2 quarters were more of what we see as opposed to the first 6. |
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Post by Martin on Sept 20, 2023 8:31:45 GMT -5
hope the last 2 quarters were more of what we see as opposed to the first 6. The Oline is not fixed yet so very aggressive strong defenses are going to create havoic. I don't expect what we saw to continue in that same way with SF and other real good D's. What was most impressive was Jones being aggressive and not hanging around in the pocket to long. It seems he understands more about the internal clock in the pocket and how he needs to manage it using his athletic ability. What I notice is they playing calling doesn't have to call designed RPO's like they did last year. Jones seems to "feel" the rush better BUT against the Cowboys there was just no time to navigate anything. No QB in the NFL can make an adjustment given only 1.6 sec average time. The oline has to get better at least improve game over game. I have more confidence in Jones than ever and belive with half way decent oline he can take over a game. We saw that last week but make no mistake we are gonna lose a bunch of games because of this oline. |
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Post by Danke Schoen on Sept 20, 2023 8:37:14 GMT -5
Unsure you repeat Jones’ name three times in a video about the receivers making plays. |
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Post by GameTime on Sept 20, 2023 9:38:02 GMT -5
hope the last 2 quarters were more of what we see as opposed to the first 6. The Oline is not fixed yet so very aggressive strong defenses are going to create havoic. I don't expect what we saw to continue in that same way with SF and other real good D's. What was most impressive was Jones being aggressive and not hanging around in the pocket to long. It seems he understands more about the internal clock in the pocket and how he needs to manage it using his athletic ability. What I notice is they playing calling doesn't have to call designed RPO's like they did last year. Jones seems to "feel" the rush better BUT against the Cowboys there was just no time to navigate anything. No QB in the NFL can make an adjustment given only 1.6 sec average time. The oline has to get better at least improve game over game. I have more confidence in Jones than ever and belive with half way decent oline he can take over a game. We saw that last week but make no mistake we are gonna lose a bunch of games because of this oline. His pocket awareness took several steps forward last season. Should only continue to get better. Its a necessity. |
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Post by cdngfan on Sept 20, 2023 10:06:59 GMT -5
Dallas and Philly are in the conversation for winning the conference. We’re not competitive against them yet.
49ers are in that conversation too.
If we’re competitive against the 49ers, that’s a 200% improvement from where we are right now.
Still doesn’t make this team “good”. But they’re trash right now. If they make it really hard on the 49ers. They improve from “trash” to “recycling”.
Which is still trash, but could be something more with some work.
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