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Post by SG88 on Apr 5, 2024 13:05:50 GMT -5
It is a QB driven league and you're ****ed upon arrival if you don't have a good one. As a fan of a team that has been in QB purgatory for a very long time, I know this first hand. We all should. Where is the proof? If that was factual. Most teams would never configure the team around the QB to place the "guy that drives the league" in a position to fail. Most teams will never have the QB's back. They just draft or sign next schmuck to throw under the bus. I have statistical evidence that suggests the whole It's a QB driven league narrative is a ruse. Nick Foles is the only one that won't have a bust in Canton. Mahomes, Stafford, Brady, Wilson, and Peyton Manning all are heading there most likely.
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3days
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Post by 3days on Apr 5, 2024 13:13:27 GMT -5
I actually think I can see what the current FO is trying to do. If you look at where they have been putting their money and early draft picks it is “in the trenches” supporting the QB they chose. The issue has been the people they have selected. Neal is lookin like a bust and Jones certianly did not work out last season. Will it eventually work? Only if they get the right people in those roles. I don't see it. They are not trying to be good enough at anything. They seem to want to be fair a everything. That is a model for "let's play not to lose" instead of "let's play to win". I see no difference than Gettelman / Shumer and Reese / McAdoo. Prime example. Our secondary was not half bad last year. A group that was on the verge of building their D around. What do they do. Let 2 main pieces walk away. Investing in a pass rush does not make the secondary better. A very compelling argument can be made for the opposite. There is a difference between agreeing with their strategy and not having a strategy. IMO they are prioritizing specific positions, Dline, CB, Oline, and deprioritizing RB, Safety, At least that is what they did this offseason.
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Post by TEM on Apr 5, 2024 13:17:08 GMT -5
Where is the proof? If that was factual. Most teams would never configure the team around the QB to place the "guy that drives the league" in a position to fail. Most teams will never have the QB's back. They just draft or sign next schmuck to throw under the bus. I have statistical evidence that suggests the whole It's a QB driven league narrative is a ruse. Ok. Post all of the QBs that have won the past 10 Super Bowls. I'm living in recent memory, not the distant past. That's all the statistical proof I need. I am in no way claiming a QB is not a piece. Drew Brees 1 win Arron Rodgers 1 win . Brett Farve 1 win. Nick Foles, Russell Wilson, Joe Flaco all proof. As soon as the team around them faltered. They had no ability to put the team on their back. QBs do not win. Football teams do. If it is a So called QB driven league. Why does he need 10 additional competent players around him on offense? Anyone should be able to fill those roles. If the QB is the God of football and Qb is so damn important. Why does the league hold the draft? They could just streamline it every year and hold only a QB draft every year. And the rest of the team picked for them out of a hat.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 5, 2024 13:23:51 GMT -5
I seriously doubt that. The Bills are still the class of that division. Not if Allen goes back to being the Allen he was without Diggs. His production was way down in the second half of the season and he did nothing in the playoffs. 2 TD's in the last 10 weeks including the postseason. Big reason why they moved on. Allen is a good QB with or without Diggs. I would hardly crown the Jets just yet.
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 5, 2024 13:43:28 GMT -5
Not if Allen goes back to being the Allen he was without Diggs. His production was way down in the second half of the season and he did nothing in the playoffs. 2 TD's in the last 10 weeks including the postseason. Big reason why they moved on. Allen is a good QB with or without Diggs. I would hardly crown the Jets just yet. Allen has not been good without Diggs, but that includes his first couple of years in the NFL. NAME GP CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG YDS/G TD TD% INT INT% SCK SCKY RATE Josh Allen - Diggs 66 1,549 2,364 65.5 17,540 7.4 265.8 137 5.8 57 2.4 109 637 96.9 Josh Allen - W/O Diggs 28 440 781 56.3 5,163 6.6 184.4 30 3.8 21 2.7 66 450 78.2
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Post by McCherry on Apr 5, 2024 14:00:05 GMT -5
His production was way down in the second half of the season and he did nothing in the playoffs. 2 TD's in the last 10 weeks including the postseason. Big reason why they moved on. Allen is a good QB with or without Diggs. I would hardly crown the Jets just yet. Allen has not been good without Diggs, but that includes his first couple of years in the NFL. NAME GP CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG YDS/G TD TD% INT INT% SCK SCKY RATE Josh Allen - Diggs 66 1,549 2,364 65.5 17,540 7.4 265.8 137 5.8 57 2.4 109 637 96.9 Josh Allen - W/O Diggs 28 440 781 56.3 5,163 6.6 184.4 30 3.8 21 2.7 66 450 78.2 Of course Allen's numbers are going to be lesser his first two years in the league without Diggs. In 2023 he carried the team through the last stretch of the season without a lot of contribution from Diggs. The Bills lost to KC on a makeable FG, so I don't buy the idea that Allen can't succeed w/o him.
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Post by Danke Schoen on Apr 5, 2024 14:02:55 GMT -5
How many games has Salah had Rodgers as his QB vs Zack Wilson, Mike White, Josh Johnson, Joe Flacco, and Chris Streveler? Rodgers will be 41 on December 2nd coming off a torn Achilles and their O-line is still a laughing stock. Not ready to crown them yet. Rodgers is still a top 10 QB, easily. And their OL was bolstered with Tyron Smith (all pro last year) and John Simpson. Plus there's a chance they land one of the top OL in the draft. I hate the jets more than anyone... but let's be realistic.
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 5, 2024 14:34:50 GMT -5
We are all tired of the losing and peaking at mediocrity like we did in 2022 and 2016 for that matter. However that hasn't slowed down their bottom line, which means that there isn't really any incentive for them to change tactics. I'm sure that they care about winning, but it isn't a priority IMO. I honestly think they want to win and are embarrassed. But I agree that if losing affected their $$ significantly, they would have faster to make changes.
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 5, 2024 14:37:28 GMT -5
Rodgers will be 41 on December 2nd coming off a torn Achilles and their O-line is still a laughing stock. Not ready to crown them yet. Rodgers is still a top 10 QB, easily. And their OL was bolstered with Tyron Smith (all pro last year) and John Simpson. Plus there's a chance they land one of the top OL in the draft. I hate the jets more than anyone... but let's be realistic. There are a whole lot of IFs for the Jets, though. IF Rodgers stays healthy, IF Tyron Smith can play a full season (hasn't done that since 2015), IF this Simpson guy is any good (PFF grades him similar to Runyan Jr...I know, PFF). The Jets no doubt have a talented team, but it's also reliant on a lot of old injury prone guys at key positions. That generally does not hold up.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 5, 2024 15:10:49 GMT -5
With Buffalo jettison half of their defense plus Diggs. The Jets and Miami own the AFC East. Both probably make the playoffs. I seriously doubt that. The Bills are still the class of that division. No Way. Their defense is going to be a big risk for them. They lost their 3 starters in their secondary, plus Floyd Leonard their OLB/ Edge. 2 WR's, Diggs being the big one. Their in trouble MC. Yes they do have Josh Allen, Their going to be a run first offense. That may/ should save Allen from so much wear and tear.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 5, 2024 15:16:31 GMT -5
With Buffalo jettison half of their defense plus Diggs. The Jets and Miami own the AFC East. Both probably make the playoffs. I think the Dolphins lost a bunch of good players this off season. They might be in the same situation as the Bills. I agree, luckily for them they might be able to outscore their opponents despite their weaknesses. But they better replace Hunt at Guard if they want their offense to be as potent. ( I think that's their 1st rd pick)
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Post by vinnie on Apr 5, 2024 15:30:24 GMT -5
Not if Allen goes back to being the Allen he was without Diggs. His production was way down in the second half of the season and he did nothing in the playoffs. 2 TD's in the last 10 weeks including the postseason. Big reason why they moved on. Allen is a good QB with or without Diggs. I would hardly crown the Jets just yet. I’m sure there were other factors involved but I don’t think it was just a coincidence. Can you guess what year Diggs came to the Bills? www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htm
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Post by repeatchamps on Apr 5, 2024 15:31:46 GMT -5
Rodgers will be 41 on December 2nd coming off a torn Achilles and their O-line is still a laughing stock. Not ready to crown them yet. Rodgers is still a top 10 QB, easily. And their OL was bolstered with Tyron Smith (all pro last year) and John Simpson. Plus there's a chance they land one of the top OL in the draft. I hate the jets more than anyone... but let's be realistic. Smith is at the end of the road. He had a solid season last year but he is wearing down and misses time every year. Simpson is definitely a nice move and a decent upgrade for them. Will need a lot more from the other 3/5 of their O-line though assuming Tyron Smith and John Simpson works out which is certainly far from a guarantee.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 5, 2024 16:46:38 GMT -5
His production was way down in the second half of the season and he did nothing in the playoffs. 2 TD's in the last 10 weeks including the postseason. Big reason why they moved on. Allen is a good QB with or without Diggs. I would hardly crown the Jets just yet. I’m sure there were other factors involved but I don’t think it was just a coincidence. Can you guess what year Diggs came to the Bills? www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleJo02.htmLike I replied to Nick, any QB's numbers are going to be better in year's 3-6 than their first two years in the league. This year will be a more fair comparison, but Allen carried the team without much contribution from Diggs down the stretch last year. Once they fired Dorsey, Diggs wasn't featured as much and had their best stretch of the season. They have some other good players on offense and will load up in the draft.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 5, 2024 16:49:29 GMT -5
So let me get this straight. We suck and We've sucked. We are most likely going to suck this year as well. Speaking of wells. As long as this FO and HC "the outside guys" keeping using the wishing well team management approach as every other FO since Accorsi has been doing. We will continue to suck. Does anyone see any directional determination from Reese forward that can be concluded? What I see is a reactive form of misconstruction. There is a hole in the dam in this spot. Stick your thumb in it. There is crack over here, here is a piece of chewing gum. Oh, wait here is another gusher of water leaking. Here is a wine bottle cork........ After Ernie left. We have a QB. Let's put the best "Athletes" not players around him. They'll be the thumb in the dam that is needed. Draft a WR. He'll ''fix the failing dam". He is the chewing gum that is needed. Draft a RB "touched by the hand of God" That alone suggest we do not a supporting cast around him. He is the cork of salvation...... There is and has been no directional dedication to anyone that has been deemed the savior of the future. Am I correct in this??? IDK Does anyone on this site see any visible path to a championship going forward? I fail to be able to connect the dots to what the FO / HC or any of them in the past decade have been attempting to accomplish. Other then we are doing this to band aid that. I understand the frustration but Fans have proven over and over again we don't know anything on how to run a professional Football team. Sadly history repeats it's self and we are in a down cycle again but we are one of the most successful Super bowl Franchise in the last 40 years, 5 Super Bowl appearance's winning 4. Yes we haven't done well since 2011 ,to me we are due for a turn around and honestly believe this is the team to start it.
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 5, 2024 16:52:01 GMT -5
Like I replied to Nick, any QB's numbers are going to be better in year's 3-6 than their first two years in the league.This year will be a more fair comparison, but Allen carried the team without much contribution from Diggs down the stretch last year. Once they fired Dorsey, Diggs wasn't featured as much. They have some other good players on offense and will load up in the draft. Daniel Jones disagrees with that statement.
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Post by TEM on Apr 5, 2024 16:53:39 GMT -5
So let me get this straight. We suck and We've sucked. We are most likely going to suck this year as well. Speaking of wells. As long as this FO and HC "the outside guys" keeping using the wishing well team management approach as every other FO since Accorsi has been doing. We will continue to suck. Does anyone see any directional determination from Reese forward that can be concluded? What I see is a reactive form of misconstruction. There is a hole in the dam in this spot. Stick your thumb in it. There is crack over here, here is a piece of chewing gum. Oh, wait here is another gusher of water leaking. Here is a wine bottle cork........ After Ernie left. We have a QB. Let's put the best "Athletes" not players around him. They'll be the thumb in the dam that is needed. Draft a WR. He'll ''fix the failing dam". He is the chewing gum that is needed. Draft a RB "touched by the hand of God" That alone suggest we do not a supporting cast around him. He is the cork of salvation...... There is and has been no directional dedication to anyone that has been deemed the savior of the future. Am I correct in this??? IDK Does anyone on this site see any visible path to a championship going forward? I fail to be able to connect the dots to what the FO / HC or any of them in the past decade have been attempting to accomplish. Other then we are doing this to band aid that. I understand the frustration but Fans have proven over and over again we don't know anything on how to run a professional Football team. Sadly history repeats it's self and we are in a down cycle again but we are one of the most successful Super bowl Franchise in the last 40 years, 5 Super Bowl appearance's winning 4. Yes we haven't done well since 2011 ,to me we are due for a turn around and honestly believe this is the team to start it. I want the same thing I just do not see the path.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 5, 2024 17:15:23 GMT -5
Like I replied to Nick, any QB's numbers are going to be better in year's 3-6 than their first two years in the league. This year will be a more fair comparison, but Allen carried the team without much contribution from Diggs down the stretch last year. Once they fired Dorsey, Diggs wasn't featured as much and had their best stretch of the season. They have some other good players on offense and will load up in the draft. Eh…not QB’s named Daniel Jones. It will be interesting to see how he does if they don’t have a true #1 WR this year.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 5, 2024 17:16:15 GMT -5
Like I replied to Nick, any QB's numbers are going to be better in year's 3-6 than their first two years in the league.This year will be a more fair comparison, but Allen carried the team without much contribution from Diggs down the stretch last year. Once they fired Dorsey, Diggs wasn't featured as much. They have some other good players on offense and will load up in the draft. Daniel Jones disagrees with that statement. Haha…I just replied to Mike with the post above before I saw yours.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 5, 2024 17:20:04 GMT -5
I understand the frustration but Fans have proven over and over again we don't know anything on how to run a professional Football team. Sadly history repeats it's self and we are in a down cycle again but we are one of the most successful Super bowl Franchise in the last 40 years, 5 Super Bowl appearance's winning 4. Yes we haven't done well since 2011 ,to me we are due for a turn around and honestly believe this is the team to start it. I want the same thing I just do not see the path. It 's fotball at the end of the day. Don't take it so seriously. If it stirs up bad feelings inside take a break from it. We don't have enough experience or information to think we have the right answers. No use worrying about it. Whatever your plan is for directional determination will align with whatever they do once they start winning. Until then nothing you can do to change it course especially on the message board. You need to take your complaints higher if you want to see change. Send Mara and Joe a detailed plan on your directional vision and how your are going to guarantee those expectations. You never know, it just may be the missing piece they been looking for.
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Post by TEM on Apr 5, 2024 17:39:26 GMT -5
I want the same thing I just do not see the path. It 's football at the end of the day. Don't take it so seriously. If it stirs up bad feelings inside take a break from it. We don't have enough experience or information to think we have the right answers. No use worrying about it. Whatever your plan is for directional determination will align with whatever they do once they start winning. Until then nothing you can do to change it course especially on the message board. You need to take your complaints higher if you want to see change. Send Mara and Joe a detailed plan on your directional vision and how your are going to guarantee those expectations. You never know, it just may be the missing piece they been looking for. I have way more things in my life right now that I can lose sleep over. Football is not one of them.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 5, 2024 17:58:50 GMT -5
At least we're not the Jets. If RT is secure they might be scary. They are in position for a nice player at #10 too. More OL, maybe Bowers, another WR?
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 5, 2024 18:10:57 GMT -5
The two of you will be greatly missed. Where are you going? Safe travels!
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 5, 2024 18:14:19 GMT -5
The two of you will be greatly missed. Where are you going? Safe travels! No place. I'm not the one crying.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 5, 2024 18:21:35 GMT -5
Where are you going? Safe travels! No place. I'm not the one crying. Worst news I’ve heard all year.
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 5, 2024 18:25:36 GMT -5
I don't see it. They are not trying to be good enough at anything. They seem to want to be fair a everything. That is a model for "let's play not to lose" instead of "let's play to win". I see no difference than Gettelman / Shumer and Reese / McAdoo. Prime example. Our secondary was not half bad last year. A group that was on the verge of building their D around. What do they do. Let 2 main pieces walk away. Investing in a pass rush does not make the secondary better. A very compelling argument can be made for the opposite. There is a difference between agreeing with their strategy and not having a strategy. IMO they are prioritizing specific positions, Dline, CB, Oline, and deprioritizing RB, Safety, At least that is what they did this offseason. Odd, because Schoen has heavily invested in a mentally retired TE and HEAVILY invested in a bad passing QB. Had he not done that, unlikely X and SB are on different rosters. Teams don't get better letting top 5 players, at their position, walk for nada, no matter their positions. Fans like to act like Schoen is still cleaning up Gettleman’s mistakes...but he's really dealing with his own miscues.
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 5, 2024 18:28:54 GMT -5
Where are you going? Safe travels! No place. I'm not the one crying. Thanks for the support, Miggs! 6 win seasons are a bottom 5 roster are frustrating!
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Post by McCherry on Apr 5, 2024 19:06:00 GMT -5
At least we're not the Jets. If RT is secure they might be scary. They are in position for a nice player at #10 too. More OL, maybe Bowers, another WR? WR, OL… Just another young prospect’s NFL dreams destroyed.
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Post by sickntired on Apr 5, 2024 19:10:55 GMT -5
I've been a Giants fan since 1986. Ok. I've seen the highs and lows.. Ok.. 86,90 07' and 11' were good years ok. What have we done since then? The OL has been in rebuilt for the last 12 years. The running game was a strong point, during that time and we've released our best running option to a divisional rival. Our Best WR was traded after being signed to a huge contract. We held onto Shepherd and Slayton, like they were the best show on turf. Waller is playing the Farve and Rogers hostage card, Mara wants Daboll to pipe down. Wink maintained a strong defense, but bumped heads with the HC and went to MI. We have no idea who will call plays on offense, and still, who is the QB? WTF is going on????We went from Historic to DESTROY IT, I'm FKN Tired of this below mediocre product. The NY faithful can't even talk SHTT to our divisional opponents like we want to because we haven't beat them consistently for years!! FIX THIS ****IN MESS ASAP!!! and FK anyone who has a problem with what I'm saying. THIS SHIT IS UNNACEPTABLE, for anyone that has defended, bought a jersey, paid for tickets, parking space, threw a playoff party, cable streaming, took off work the following day, and any loyalty for this franchise. TAKE THE NFC EAST OVER AGAIN!! I stopped posting like this. People don’t take it seriously because everyone basically knows what’s ****ed up.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 5, 2024 20:28:09 GMT -5
I’m glass half full with this GM/HC regime. This year could change that.
We’ve had a good year and a bad year. If the order of those years were flipped we’d be having a very different conversation today. So I’m not willing to ignore a playoff win in a 9 win year because it was 22’ instead of 23’. It means there’s been a good year and a bad year.
We were already on our 2nd head coach under Getty by this time in his tenure. We’re not a good football team yet, and you can’t be a 6 win team in your 4th year and realistically keep your job.
So much comes down to the o line. If it improves we may have some stability (finally) here. If it doesn’t, next year is an unquestionable hot seat year.
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