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Post by vinnie on Apr 16, 2024 16:12:56 GMT -5
it’s not that I don’t want a QB at 6, it’s that it’s easy for me to say take a QB at 6 when it’s not my ass on the ejection-seat after signing DJ and taking a QB at 6. If they love a QB at 6 I don’t think they let him go. You risk it. But are we assuming the top 4 QBs are same-same warm bodies and you’ll bet your career on any of them? if they’re missing a QB at the end of 25 but they’re winning more games and the roster is filling out (particularly the o line), JS Will keep his job. We won 6 with garbage at QB. I think you can trot garbage out at QB and win more than 6 if the garbage isn’t running for their life. It’s not skipping a QB, it’s making sure you don’t pick another Neal, and the probability of that is just much higher picking a QB. I won’t be throwing anything if they pick a QB. Not at all. I’ll just be crossing my fingers that they’ve got it right this time. They got it wrong with DJ. I get making a mistake. It’s going to happen. You can make 2 at QB. Just get it right. QB. WR. Trade down. Get it right. Personally, I just don't see this crop of QBs worthy of trading up for, not that i wouldn't want us to trade up if there were a prospect that I really liked. So it's not ANY qb, it's THESE qbs... I get that, but I’m not impressed with any of next year’s either. I’m sure there will be a couple guys that rise to the top unexpectedly but there will probably be a lot more QB needy teams picking in front of us as well. The longer we wait the more we’ll have to give up unless somehow they nab Penix or Nix and they happen to work out. I mean look at what Minn is having to give up in this draft, imagine if that were us next year when there’s only 2-3 QB’s considered worth drafting in the top 10.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 16, 2024 16:26:24 GMT -5
I can’t wait to hear the discussion next year about how many future first round picks we’ll have to give up just to step up to the plate for a QB, let alone take a swing at one, when this year we’re already at the plate. Everyone pretty much acknowledges that at least half of all QB’s taken in the first round will be a bust so they don’t want the Giants to risk takin one with the 6th pick with a stud WR there and they don’t want the Giants to give up future picks to move up and get one. In all probability we’ll be taking the exact same risk on drafting a QB next year but will have to give up much, much, much more. So when exactly do you guys plan on addressing the QB? Do you think we should just throw away valuable 2nd and 3d round picks on a QB that has less than a 5-10% chance of becoming a starter? Are you relying on finding the next Purdy, Romo or Brady? I don’t understand the logic of not wanting to get a QB now because it’s a big risk but wanting to wait another year when that same risk will cost you that many more picks, and I guarantee you, this roster will still need a lot of work next year and we’ll want those picks. it’s not that I don’t want a QB at 6, it’s that it’s easy for me to say take a QB at 6 when it’s not my ass on the ejection-seat after signing DJ and taking a QB at 6. If they love a QB at 6 I don’t think they let him go. You risk it. But are we assuming the top 4 QBs are same-same warm bodies and you’ll bet your career on any of them? if they’re missing a QB at the end of 25 but they’re winning more games and the roster is filling out (particularly the o line), JS Will keep his job. We won 6 with garbage at QB. I think you can trot garbage out at QB and win more than 6 if the garbage isn’t running for their life. It’s not skipping a QB, it’s making sure you don’t pick another Neal, and the probability of that is just much higher picking a QB. I won’t be throwing anything if they pick a QB. Not at all. I’ll just be crossing my fingers that they’ve got it right this time. They got it wrong with DJ. I get making a mistake. It’s going to happen. You can make 2 at QB. Just get it right. QB. WR. Trade down. Get it right. Well is the object to just win more games and be relevant, like the cowboys, or to win a Super Bowl? At some point they are going to have to risk a pick on a QB. Say we win more games over the next two years (which I think we will) but still aren’t close to competing with the big dogs due to our QB, and end up picking somewhere around the 17-20 range. What do you think it would cost for us to move into the the top 3 to get that “sure fire” QB that everyone thinks will be our savior or are we going to still give up future picks to move up to 10 or something and hope we find the next Mahomes? I understand most of these QB’s have warts and they all will next year, the year after and the year after that. I also understand the bust rate is quite high for 1st round QB’s, and that includes the prospects that are allegedly “can’t miss”. My point is, as time goes by we’re probably going to have o sacrifice more and more of our future to take a risk on a QB so if we’re going to have to do it, why not try now when we’ll have to give up much less? I’m also more confident there will be blue chip receivers in every draft and even if there aren’t many, there are plenty of good second options, can’t say the same for QB’s.
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miggs
Starter
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Post by miggs on Apr 16, 2024 16:51:16 GMT -5
Good poll result. Too bad those who want a QB at no.6 dominant this board.
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smitty
Special Teams
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Post by smitty on Apr 16, 2024 19:29:19 GMT -5
Joe Alt.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 16, 2024 19:39:53 GMT -5
As a Notre Dame fan I think Alt is great and will probably have a fantastic career in the NFL. I'm not sure if I'd want to draft him and try to move him to RT. If we didn't have one of the best LTs in the NFL I'd be all over taking him. I wouldn't be mad if the draft him though.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 16, 2024 19:43:02 GMT -5
So obvious what they need….and whom they need to draft this year. A QB Don't be shy, say the who. Put that name on digital paper for all of eternity.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 16, 2024 19:45:46 GMT -5
I think that some of the people wanting a receiver are sleeping on Wandale Robinson. If he ever gets a QB who can get him the ball consistently, he can break out for us in a big way. I want a WR and my constant posts about Robinson last year should tell you I'm not sleeping on him. I think he is unrecoverable. Especially in that short/quick passing game. I am also a huge fan of Hyatt. I really just think that we need that third WR (a true #1) to make this an elite group of WRs. We need that dominant guy. Slayton is a nice piece but not that dominant #1.
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Post by SG88 on Apr 16, 2024 20:47:36 GMT -5
I think that some of the people wanting a receiver are sleeping on Wandale Robinson. If he ever gets a QB who can get him the ball consistently, he can break out for us in a big way. I want a WR and my constant posts about Robinson last year should tell you I'm not sleeping on him. I think he is unrecoverable. Especially in that short/quick passing game. I am also a huge fan of Hyatt. I really just think that we need that third WR (a true #1) to make this an elite group of WRs. We need that dominant guy. Slayton is a nice piece but not that dominant #1. Good post and well said.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 16, 2024 21:07:56 GMT -5
Question is after the top 3 trading up is pretty risky with whats left . I would commend the balls to do it but there isn't an Eli Manning waiting as the 4th best option I don't think anyway. I want the QB but not another 4 years of we new he couldn't do this or that and wasted the 6th pick while Nabers and Odunze might be killing it for someone else. Daniel Jones misses deep open receivers on a consistent basis....wide open. Shell shocked or whatever...any WR will be of no use until they get the see all calm cool and collected QB, and OL...IOL until the right tackle becomes a leak...then the flood again and our useless 6 pick X. QB please...trade up and get em. If they trade up I hope your right but fear we will be saying the same things about who ever they draft as we are saying about Jones because were not getting Williams or Maye or Daniels. I have faith in you Aris hope your right if they go that route.
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Aris
Special Teams
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Post by Aris on Apr 17, 2024 2:05:13 GMT -5
Daniel Jones misses deep open receivers on a consistent basis....wide open. Shell shocked or whatever...any WR will be of no use until they get the see all calm cool and collected QB, and OL...IOL until the right tackle becomes a leak...then the flood again and our useless 6 pick X. QB please...trade up and get em. If they trade up I hope your right but fear we will be saying the same things about who ever they draft as we are saying about Jones because were not getting Williams or Maye or Daniels. I have faith in you Aris hope your right if they go that route. My QB rankings Caleb Maye Daniels JJ Penix Nix They still should have taken Rosen over Barkley, and I hated both of The Beach Boys that year. Rosen was the most NFL ready, if you watch the tape. His issues were growing up elite, love of the game...and all those rumblings of being not liked by his teammates and a leader of none. Allen was my choice that year cause loved his arm talent and ability to run, which means I threw a dart and it hit...nothing more. 20 pages of TEM debate of Josh Allen's numbers in college vs potential mean nothing, except TEM was probably correct and Allen simply went to the correct environment .... but he had football player in him vs just QB. That's not a stat. If they took Rosen, or a QB that year...and he sat a year behind Eli...you never know the "what if" scenario. Each QB has to be drafted into a perfect environment for his talents and many are simply ruined into back up or bust material because of a where, who and when ...it's why Jayden Daniels is going Kliff Kingsbury this year, and why Maye is a nice fit here, until he probably, statistically, is not. You take the QB when you need one and hope that dart hits....and we're too close to not worry about some draft picks going the other way.....next year they become a lot of future 1's for that probable fail. All a IMHO of course....as there has to be a limit to your risk reward and how much you give up. The ONLY probable in any draft, any year...as well as free agency.... is whomever Irish Mike wants being the player we know will be the absolute wrong pick.
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Post by TEM on Apr 17, 2024 6:51:53 GMT -5
The conscience on the site is a small sample size (46 participants) 60% for a WR. it does mirror the overall favorability of the larger size I conducted 8 months 6,800 precipitants in online mock drafts with a 100% probability total.
Player................................ the 6th pick probability Caleb Williams...................................0.8% Marvin Harrison Jr..............................1% Drake Maye........................................2.7% Joe Alt................................................13.8% Brock Bowers.....................................6% Olumuyiwa Fashanu..........................6.3% Jayden Daniels..................................7% Bo Nix................................................0.6% Michael Penix Jr................................2.8% J.J. McCarthy.....................................8.2% Malik Nabers......................................31.1% Rome Odunze....................................15.1% Jer'Zhan Newton.................................0.6% Taliese Fuaga......................................1.1% Dallas Turner........................................2.1% Jared Verse..........................................0.8%
total.......................................................100%
The 2 WRs have the highest probability of being picked.
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 17, 2024 8:08:11 GMT -5
If we're talking about what we're hoping for, and not what we expect, then I have a few scenarios depending on how the board falls.
- Best scenario #1: Maye or Daniels somehow fall in our laps at #6. Not having to give up any assets for a QB with top-8 potential would absolutely be ideal.
- Best scenario #2: Trade back and draft Nix. This draft is unusually deep at positions of need, and we only have six picks. That's not enough. Even if it's not on day-1, I expect us to trade back at some point.
- Best scenario #3: Trade up for Maye. The idea of giving away more assets doesn't excite me, but the idea of landing our potential franchise QB does. As much as I like Daniels, he has too many questions/concerns for my liking to trade up for.
- Best scenario #4: Draft the best WR at #6, then draft Nix in rd-2. I don't think Nix makes it past Denver, but if this were to actually play out I'd be giddy. Nix looks pro ready on day-1 in my opinion, and finally drafting a WR1 to compliment him would be awesome.
- Best scenario #5: Draft McCarthy or Nix at #6. Doesn't feel like the greatest use of the #6 pick, but we need a QB and both have starting potential.
- Worst scenarios: Trading up for any QB not named Caleb or Maye....trading up for any non-QB position.....not drafting a QB.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 17, 2024 8:13:11 GMT -5
If they trade up I hope your right but fear we will be saying the same things about who ever they draft as we are saying about Jones because were not getting Williams or Maye or Daniels. I have faith in you Aris hope your right if they go that route. My QB rankings Caleb Maye Daniels JJ Penix Nix They still should have taken Rosen over Barkley, and I hated both of The Beach Boys that year. Rosen was the most NFL ready, if you watch the tape. His issues were growing up elite, love of the game...and all those rumblings of being not liked by his teammates and a leader of none. Allen was my choice that year cause loved his arm talent and ability to run, which means I threw a dart and it hit...nothing more. 20 pages of TEM debate of Josh Allen's numbers in college vs potential mean nothing, except TEM was probably correct and Allen simply went to the correct environment .... but he had football player in him vs just QB. That's not a stat. If they took Rosen, or a QB that year...and he sat a year behind Eli...you never know the "what if" scenario. Each QB has to be drafted into a perfect environment for his talents and many are simply ruined into back up or bust material because of a where, who and when ...it's why Jayden Daniels is going Kliff Kingsbury this year, and why Maye is a nice fit here, until he probably, statistically, is not. You take the QB when you need one and hope that dart hits....and we're too close to not worry about some draft picks going the other way.....next year they become a lot of future 1's for that probable fail. All a IMHO of course....as there has to be a limit to your risk reward and how much you give up. The ONLY probable in any draft, any year...as well as free agency.... is whomever Irish Mike wants being the player we know will be the absolute wrong pick. I admittedly wanted Rosen that year, over all the other QB’s. I’m not saying he would have succeeded in the NFL but I’m honestly shocked how many people (a lot of DJ fans in particular) use Rosen as an example of an overrated QB who was all hype when Rosen was arguably put in worse situations than Jones ever was, or at least similar. He had something like two different HC’s and or OC’s in his first two years, was thrown into the fire from the get go, shitty O line, not much for weapons on offense…then he was shipped off by a new coach and GM after his rookie season to a situation just as bad. He played a total of 24 games with 3 different teams in 3 years, how is that overlooked or not talked about but Jones has 5 years worth of excuses. Why is it Jones gets every excuse in the book but Rosen is used as the poster child of a highly rated QB bust? Jones has had 5 years (going on 6) as a starter but Rosen had what, 2-3 years before being kicked to the curb.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 17, 2024 8:22:10 GMT -5
Just in case anyone missed my prior ~10-15 posts about Maye, beginning while he was in college, put me on record as him being a bust or average AT BEST (I’ll go with 15% chance he’ll be average; 100% chance he’ll be average or worse).
If we draft him, and I do think Schoen likes him the most, then hopefully someone will pull this post up in 2-3 years to call me out for being dead wrong. I would gladly welcome it. I would beg for it, I will even quote myself if no one else does.
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Post by bavarobeast on Apr 17, 2024 8:26:54 GMT -5
Just in case anyone missed my prior ~10-15 posts about Maye, beginning while he was in college, put me on record as him being a bust or average AT BEST (I’ll go with 15% chance he’ll be average; 100% chance he’ll be average or worse). I agree wholeheartedly. I have never been that impressed with Maye. I have us taking him in my mock not because I want him but I’m afraid the Giants will take him if he is available. Still might replace him with Penix or McCarthy but I think McCarthy goes before number six. I would almost rather have Nix than Maye - in fact I would rather have him and that says a lot about what I think of Maye. But not Nix at 6
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Post by Nite on Apr 17, 2024 8:42:55 GMT -5
Just in case anyone missed my prior ~10-15 posts about Maye, beginning while he was in college, put me on record as him being a bust or average AT BEST (I’ll go with 15% chance he’ll be average; 100% chance he’ll be average or worse). If we draft him, and I do think Schoen likes him the most, then hopefully someone will pull this post up in 2-3 years to call me out for being dead wrong. I would gladly welcome it. I would beg for it, I will even quote myself if no one else does. Experts/scouts: Bust to average Mara (Giants): Sign that boy up!!
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 17, 2024 8:42:57 GMT -5
it’s not that I don’t want a QB at 6, it’s that it’s easy for me to say take a QB at 6 when it’s not my ass on the ejection-seat after signing DJ and taking a QB at 6. If they love a QB at 6 I don’t think they let him go. You risk it. But are we assuming the top 4 QBs are same-same warm bodies and you’ll bet your career on any of them? if they’re missing a QB at the end of 25 but they’re winning more games and the roster is filling out (particularly the o line), JS Will keep his job. We won 6 with garbage at QB. I think you can trot garbage out at QB and win more than 6 if the garbage isn’t running for their life. It’s not skipping a QB, it’s making sure you don’t pick another Neal, and the probability of that is just much higher picking a QB. I won’t be throwing anything if they pick a QB. Not at all. I’ll just be crossing my fingers that they’ve got it right this time. They got it wrong with DJ. I get making a mistake. It’s going to happen. You can make 2 at QB. Just get it right. QB. WR. Trade down. Get it right. Well is the object to just win more games and be relevant, like the cowboys, or to win a Super Bowl? At some point they are going to have to risk a pick on a QB. Say we win more games over the next two years (which I think we will) but still aren’t close to competing with the big dogs due to our QB, and end up picking somewhere around the 17-20 range. What do you think it would cost for us to move into the the top 3 to get that “sure fire” QB that everyone thinks will be our savior or are we going to still give up future picks to move up to 10 or something and hope we find the next Mahomes? I understand most of these QB’s have warts and they all will next year, the year after and the year after that. I also understand the bust rate is quite high for 1st round QB’s, and that includes the prospects that are allegedly “can’t miss”. My point is, as time goes by we’re probably going to have o sacrifice more and more of our future to take a risk on a QB so if we’re going to have to do it, why not try now when we’ll have to give up much less? I’m also more confident there will be blue chip receivers in every draft and even if there aren’t many, there are plenty of good second options, can’t say the same for QB’s. my point isn’t that you skip QB because the risk is too great. If you’re scouting team is really excited about a QB, then go get him. I don’t get the “we better take a QB” opinion. That’s the equivalent of “you better find a wife this month”. Can you? Of course. Does it make sense to say “it better be now”? That’s entirely dependent on the candidates. So the fair point of “when will we be in a better position to take a QB” is still dependent on what we think of the candidates. You’re right, if we win more games the cost of acquiring the draft position to pick a rockstar QB gets more expensive. No argument from me on that. But my general opinion is too many teams are saviour hunting and i think it’s a waste of time and resources. The cost benefit analysis of it is horrible. Discounting rookies, looking at QBs with a minimum of two seasons under their belt, how many teams in the NFl have a QB that can beat the Chiefs? Maybe 4? I think Allen can, but hasn’t yet and I don’t know if he ever will. So what’s the point of sticking with Allen if realistically he can’t win Buffalo a championship? To boil down a post that’s too long to begin with. I think the goal should be to find a good enough QB. Finding a GOAT is pure ass luck in my opinion coupled with having the perfect mix of coaching and roster (and in some cases corresponding divisional incompetence) to have the right environment to grow a GOAT. The only way these good but not great teams can acquire a Mahomes is to become horrible and then get lucky. The other alternative is to try and get lucky staying “good enough” long enough that luck helps you win from that position. Either way, luck is a huge component of championships. So if we pick a QB at 6, or move up and grab one, I’ll be waiting to see how it turns out. If we don’t pick a QB, even if ones available at at 6 I won’t be disappointed. I don’t see building a championship team conventionally. And in fact when you’re rooting for a team in the league with a potential GOAT QB playing somewhere else, you have to envision a different way of developing and winning a championship. You’re not going to out-Mahomes Mahomes.
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Post by Nite on Apr 17, 2024 8:48:07 GMT -5
I can’t wait to hear the discussion next year about how many future first round picks we’ll have to give up just to step up to the plate for a QB, let alone take a swing at one, when this year we’re already at the plate. Everyone pretty much acknowledges that at least half of all QB’s taken in the first round will be a bust so they don’t want the Giants to risk takin one with the 6th pick with a stud WR there and they don’t want the Giants to give up future picks to move up and get one. In all probability we’ll be taking the exact same risk on drafting a QB next year but will have to give up much, much, much more. So when exactly do you guys plan on addressing the QB? Do you think we should just throw away valuable 2nd and 3d round picks on a QB that has less than a 5-10% chance of becoming a starter? Are you relying on finding the next Purdy, Romo or Brady? I don’t understand the logic of not wanting to get a QB now because it’s a big risk but wanting to wait another year when that same risk will cost you that many more picks, and I guarantee you, this roster will still need a lot of work next year and we’ll want those picks. The problem with a lot of fans is that they would rather wallow in mediocrity than take a chance at being good (or at least functional). By not taking a chance nothing will change. I think that attitude permeates the FO of this team. Until I see otherwise that will be my pov.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 17, 2024 8:50:39 GMT -5
If they trade up I hope your right but fear we will be saying the same things about who ever they draft as we are saying about Jones because were not getting Williams or Maye or Daniels. I have faith in you Aris hope your right if they go that route. My QB rankings Caleb Maye Daniels JJ Penix Nix They still should have taken Rosen over Barkley, and I hated both of The Beach Boys that year. Rosen was the most NFL ready, if you watch the tape. His issues were growing up elite, love of the game...and all those rumblings of being not liked by his teammates and a leader of none. Allen was my choice that year cause loved his arm talent and ability to run, which means I threw a dart and it hit...nothing more. 20 pages of TEM debate of Josh Allen's numbers in college vs potential mean nothing, except TEM was probably correct and Allen simply went to the correct environment .... but he had football player in him vs just QB. That's not a stat. If they took Rosen, or a QB that year...and he sat a year behind Eli...you never know the "what if" scenario. Each QB has to be drafted into a perfect environment for his talents and many are simply ruined into back up or bust material because of a where, who and when ...it's why Jayden Daniels is going Kliff Kingsbury this year, and why Maye is a nice fit here, until he probably, statistically, is not. You take the QB when you need one and hope that dart hits....and we're too close to not worry about some draft picks going the other way.....next year they become a lot of future 1's for that probable fail. All a IMHO of course....as there has to be a limit to your risk reward and how much you give up. The ONLY probable in any draft, any year...as well as free agency.... is whomever Irish Mike wants being the player we know will be the absolute wrong pick. LOL I would actually be really happy with Maye he is aggressive and can layer throws change speeds and throw off different platforms he does need time to get his feet right but here he would have that Caleb isn't happening.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 17, 2024 8:54:25 GMT -5
Just in case anyone missed my prior ~10-15 posts about Maye, beginning while he was in college, put me on record as him being a bust or average AT BEST (I’ll go with 15% chance he’ll be average; 100% chance he’ll be average or worse). If we draft him, and I do think Schoen likes him the most, then hopefully someone will pull this post up in 2-3 years to call me out for being dead wrong. I would gladly welcome it. I would beg for it, I will even quote myself if no one else does. Sorry for my long response on that other post but I didn’t see this when I drafted that book. This was a huge part of the point Im making. If we passed over Maye at 6 it doesn’t sound like you’d be pissed. Neither would I. I’d feel the same way if they draft a QB. JUST BE RIGHT. I don’t think we can afford a boom/bust pick at 6. Pick whomever your scouts are saying is as sure thing a pick as you have seen. We need at starter who turns ou and makes a big difference in games. It really doesn’t matter what position they play. If you don’t have someone like that available at 6, ESPECIALLY if there’s a QB on the board, then absolutely rip off some other GM who is saviour shopping. Picks are more chances at getting your scouting right. JS won’t be fired until 25 anyway. Use the whole clock.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Apr 17, 2024 8:54:34 GMT -5
If they trade up I hope your right but fear we will be saying the same things about who ever they draft as we are saying about Jones because were not getting Williams or Maye or Daniels. I have faith in you Aris hope your right if they go that route. My QB rankings Caleb Maye Daniels JJ Penix Nix They still should have taken Rosen over Barkley, and I hated both of The Beach Boys that year. Rosen was the most NFL ready, if you watch the tape. His issues were growing up elite, love of the game...and all those rumblings of being not liked by his teammates and a leader of none. Allen was my choice that year cause loved his arm talent and ability to run, which means I threw a dart and it hit...nothing more. 20 pages of TEM debate of Josh Allen's numbers in college vs potential mean nothing, except TEM was probably correct and Allen simply went to the correct environment .... but he had football player in him vs just QB. That's not a stat. If they took Rosen, or a QB that year...and he sat a year behind Eli...you never know the "what if" scenario. Each QB has to be drafted into a perfect environment for his talents and many are simply ruined into back up or bust material because of a where, who and when ...it's why Jayden Daniels is going Kliff Kingsbury this year, and why Maye is a nice fit here, until he probably, statistically, is not. You take the QB when you need one and hope that dart hits....and we're too close to not worry about some draft picks going the other way.....next year they become a lot of future 1's for that probable fail. All a IMHO of course....as there has to be a limit to your risk reward and how much you give up. The ONLY probable in any draft, any year...as well as free agency.... is whomever Irish Mike wants being the player we know will be the absolute wrong pick. Actually this makes more sense my issue is if 1 through 3 Caleb Daniels and Maye go not sure bout giving up capital for JJ he is young tho and can get better.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 17, 2024 9:10:30 GMT -5
I can’t wait to hear the discussion next year about how many future first round picks we’ll have to give up just to step up to the plate for a QB, let alone take a swing at one, when this year we’re already at the plate. Everyone pretty much acknowledges that at least half of all QB’s taken in the first round will be a bust so they don’t want the Giants to risk takin one with the 6th pick with a stud WR there and they don’t want the Giants to give up future picks to move up and get one. In all probability we’ll be taking the exact same risk on drafting a QB next year but will have to give up much, much, much more. So when exactly do you guys plan on addressing the QB? Do you think we should just throw away valuable 2nd and 3d round picks on a QB that has less than a 5-10% chance of becoming a starter? Are you relying on finding the next Purdy, Romo or Brady? I don’t understand the logic of not wanting to get a QB now because it’s a big risk but wanting to wait another year when that same risk will cost you that many more picks, and I guarantee you, this roster will still need a lot of work next year and we’ll want those picks. The problem with a lot of fans is that they would rather wallow in mediocrity than take a chance at being good (or at least functional). By not taking a chance nothing will change. I think that attitude permeates the FO of this team. Until I see otherwise that will be my pov. So are you extending JS contract if he picks a QB that tanks because he took a shot at being great? Do you not extend his contract because he took a WR? Are you firing him if he wins 10 games in 25 but doesn’t come close to a championship? Stop trying to be mediocre is a view from the comfort of our chairs where a big swing and a miss frankly doesn’t impact us at all. A big swing and a miss for a GM who has probably already had a big swing and a miss in DJ’s contract is most likely fatal. Unless you’re going to guarantee your GM a job, moving from horrible to mediocre is going to be what every GM strives for because it keeps them employed. I’m not disagreeing with you. But taking big chances to be great starts with ownership, not the GM. I don’t think we have that owner. That was sorta Dan Synder though. “Take huge improbable risks and make sure they turn out or you’re fired” was his management style.
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Post by bavarobeast on Apr 17, 2024 9:29:52 GMT -5
The problem with a lot of fans is that they would rather wallow in mediocrity than take a chance at being good (or at least functional). By not taking a chance nothing will change. I think that attitude permeates the FO of this team. Until I see otherwise that will be my pov. So are you extending JS contract if he picks a QB that tanks because he took a shot at being great? Do you not extend his contract because he took a WR? Are you firing him if he wins 10 games in 25 but doesn’t come close to a championship? Stop trying to be mediocre is a view from the comfort of our chairs where a big swing and a miss frankly doesn’t impact us at all. A big swing and a miss for a GM who has probably already had a big swing and a miss in DJ’s contract is most likely fatal. Unless you’re going to guarantee your GM a job, moving from horrible to mediocre is going to be what every GM strives for because it keeps them employed. I’m not disagreeing with you. But taking big chances to be great starts with ownership, not the GM. I don’t think we have that owner. That was sorta Dan Synder though. “Take huge improbable risks and make sure they turn out or you’re fired” was his management style. The current Giants formula has been a failure. Doing the same shit over and over again with the same result is ignorant. Roll the dice and don’t think twice. It’s time to shake it up. I wouldn’t consider any of the top quarterbacks a huge improbable risk. It’s time for this “let’s not make a mistake” fanbase to grow a pair as well as the front office. When people say well Daniel Jones was a failure quarterback at pick six why would we do that again? - that is a ridiculous take. If we pick a QB at 6 that has absolutely nothing to do with six years ago when we picked our quarterback at number six. My comment is not directed at you specifically. You generally have a great take on things and I understand where you’re coming from to an extent but me personally I’m tired of this hesitant nervous in the service when it comes to the draft.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 17, 2024 9:35:34 GMT -5
Schraeger and Jeremiah are both floating Giant trade-ups for JJ … something to take notice of
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 17, 2024 9:39:22 GMT -5
I can’t wait to hear the discussion next year about how many future first round picks we’ll have to give up just to step up to the plate for a QB, let alone take a swing at one, when this year we’re already at the plate. Everyone pretty much acknowledges that at least half of all QB’s taken in the first round will be a bust so they don’t want the Giants to risk takin one with the 6th pick with a stud WR there and they don’t want the Giants to give up future picks to move up and get one. In all probability we’ll be taking the exact same risk on drafting a QB next year but will have to give up much, much, much more. So when exactly do you guys plan on addressing the QB? Do you think we should just throw away valuable 2nd and 3d round picks on a QB that has less than a 5-10% chance of becoming a starter? Are you relying on finding the next Purdy, Romo or Brady? I don’t understand the logic of not wanting to get a QB now because it’s a big risk but wanting to wait another year when that same risk will cost you that many more picks, and I guarantee you, this roster will still need a lot of work next year and we’ll want those picks. Solid post
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southerner
Starter
Bearer of Bad News
Posts: 4,213
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Post by southerner on Apr 17, 2024 9:46:10 GMT -5
If they can get the Vikings two first round picks, and their 3rd round for our 4th round pick…TAKE IT! Every year we hear about these can’t miss players near the top of the draft and at least 50% end up as busts. The QBs are way overrated……trade back is by far the best choice.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 9:51:10 GMT -5
If they can get the Vikings two first round picks, and their 3rd round for our 4th round pick…TAKE IT! Every year we hear about these can’t miss players near the top of the draft and at least 50% end up as busts. The QBs are way overrated……trade back is by far the best choice. Qb or trade back so yeah, those two #1s would be nice.
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Post by cdngfan on Apr 17, 2024 9:56:00 GMT -5
So are you extending JS contract if he picks a QB that tanks because he took a shot at being great? Do you not extend his contract because he took a WR? Are you firing him if he wins 10 games in 25 but doesn’t come close to a championship? Stop trying to be mediocre is a view from the comfort of our chairs where a big swing and a miss frankly doesn’t impact us at all. A big swing and a miss for a GM who has probably already had a big swing and a miss in DJ’s contract is most likely fatal. Unless you’re going to guarantee your GM a job, moving from horrible to mediocre is going to be what every GM strives for because it keeps them employed. I’m not disagreeing with you. But taking big chances to be great starts with ownership, not the GM. I don’t think we have that owner. That was sorta Dan Synder though. “Take huge improbable risks and make sure they turn out or you’re fired” was his management style. The current Giants formula has been a failure. Doing the same shit over and over again with the same result is ignorant. Roll the dice and don’t think twice. It’s time to shake it up. I wouldn’t consider any of the top quarterbacks a huge improbable risk. It’s time for this “let’s not make a mistake” fanbase to grow a pair as well as the front office. When people say well Daniel Jones was a failure quarterback at pick six why would we do that again? - that is a ridiculous take. If we pick a QB at 6 that has absolutely nothing to do with six years ago when we picked our quarterback at number six. My comment is not directed at you specifically. You generally have a great take on things and I understand where you’re coming from to an extent but me personally I’m tired of this hesitant nervous in the service when it comes to the draft. Well I think you’ve found management team. Giving DJ $160 million is a big swing. Letting SB walk is a big swing. Trading for Burns and giving him a huge deal is big swing. I agree with most of your comment. Anyone suggesting that picking DJ is a reason not to pick a QB is on a different planet. But I’m not going to let the frustration of Reese and Getty to bleed into evaluating JS. I think that’s common and I think it’s a mistake. I also think he made a mistake with the DJ contract but there’s no way to see that as anything other than taking a big chance. We see that from the perspective of watching him for 4 years and JS’ perspective was I’m going to evaluate his time with me, and I love that. My main point in talking about QB probabilities is to basically say that I’m going to be indifferent to taking or not taking a QB. Just get the decision right. This isn’t a conservative management team.
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Aris
Special Teams
Posts: 498
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Post by Aris on Apr 17, 2024 10:02:14 GMT -5
My QB rankings Caleb Maye Daniels JJ Penix Nix They still should have taken Rosen over Barkley, and I hated both of The Beach Boys that year. Rosen was the most NFL ready, if you watch the tape. His issues were growing up elite, love of the game...and all those rumblings of being not liked by his teammates and a leader of none. Allen was my choice that year cause loved his arm talent and ability to run, which means I threw a dart and it hit...nothing more. 20 pages of TEM debate of Josh Allen's numbers in college vs potential mean nothing, except TEM was probably correct and Allen simply went to the correct environment .... but he had football player in him vs just QB. That's not a stat. If they took Rosen, or a QB that year...and he sat a year behind Eli...you never know the "what if" scenario. Each QB has to be drafted into a perfect environment for his talents and many are simply ruined into back up or bust material because of a where, who and when ...it's why Jayden Daniels is going Kliff Kingsbury this year, and why Maye is a nice fit here, until he probably, statistically, is not. You take the QB when you need one and hope that dart hits....and we're too close to not worry about some draft picks going the other way.....next year they become a lot of future 1's for that probable fail. All a IMHO of course....as there has to be a limit to your risk reward and how much you give up. The ONLY probable in any draft, any year...as well as free agency.... is whomever Irish Mike wants being the player we know will be the absolute wrong pick. Actually this makes more sense my issue is if 1 through 3 Caleb Daniels and Maye go not sure bout giving up capital for JJ he is young tho and can get better. I’ve watched enough tape of his good bad and ugly….he can be taught. All depends on what he’s actually thinking about during his meditation before games…if it’s about cheerleaders, being sacked or kegs of beer…we made a mistake. He is worth the dart ….IMHO of course
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Post by vinnie on Apr 17, 2024 10:23:15 GMT -5
Well is the object to just win more games and be relevant, like the cowboys, or to win a Super Bowl? At some point they are going to have to risk a pick on a QB. Say we win more games over the next two years (which I think we will) but still aren’t close to competing with the big dogs due to our QB, and end up picking somewhere around the 17-20 range. What do you think it would cost for us to move into the the top 3 to get that “sure fire” QB that everyone thinks will be our savior or are we going to still give up future picks to move up to 10 or something and hope we find the next Mahomes? I understand most of these QB’s have warts and they all will next year, the year after and the year after that. I also understand the bust rate is quite high for 1st round QB’s, and that includes the prospects that are allegedly “can’t miss”. My point is, as time goes by we’re probably going to have o sacrifice more and more of our future to take a risk on a QB so if we’re going to have to do it, why not try now when we’ll have to give up much less? I’m also more confident there will be blue chip receivers in every draft and even if there aren’t many, there are plenty of good second options, can’t say the same for QB’s. my point isn’t that you skip QB because the risk is too great. If you’re scouting team is really excited about a QB, then go get him. I don’t get the “we better take a QB” opinion. That’s the equivalent of “you better find a wife this month”. Can you? Of course. Does it make sense to say “it better be now”? That’s entirely dependent on the candidates. So the fair point of “when will we be in a better position to take a QB” is still dependent on what we think of the candidates. You’re right, if we win more games the cost of acquiring the draft position to pick a rockstar QB gets more expensive. No argument from me on that. But my general opinion is too many teams are saviour hunting and i think it’s a waste of time and resources. The cost benefit analysis of it is horrible. Discounting rookies, looking at QBs with a minimum of two seasons under their belt, how many teams in the NFl have a QB that can beat the Chiefs? Maybe 4? I think Allen can, but hasn’t yet and I don’t know if he ever will. So what’s the point of sticking with Allen if realistically he can’t win Buffalo a championship? To boil down a post that’s too long to begin with. I think the goal should be to find a good enough QB. Finding a GOAT is pure ass luck in my opinion coupled with having the perfect mix of coaching and roster (and in some cases corresponding divisional incompetence) to have the right environment to grow a GOAT. The only way these good but not great teams can acquire a Mahomes is to become horrible and then get lucky. The other alternative is to try and get lucky staying “good enough” long enough that luck helps you win from that position. Either way, luck is a huge component of championships. So if we pick a QB at 6, or move up and grab one, I’ll be waiting to see how it turns out. If we don’t pick a QB, even if ones available at at 6 I won’t be disappointed. I don’t see building a championship team conventionally. And in fact when you’re rooting for a team in the league with a potential GOAT QB playing somewhere else, you have to envision a different way of developing and winning a championship. You’re not going to out-Mahomes Mahomes. Nice response and very legitimate points. I guess part of my point of getting a QB this year, or next, is that I don’t see Jones as the answer, even if we build up the team around him. After this year, unless he suddenly turns into an All Pro, I don’t think his production (or lack thereof) will be worth what they pay him and I also think it can be replicated by most, if not all, of these rookies, including Maye who I don’t like. I think we would be better off with a QB on a rookie deal and spending the money we would have paid Jones on other positions of need, and there’s plenty. The risk of the rookie being worse than Jones is minimal IMO and is worth a shot. Add in the risk of Jones getting hurt again and cashing in on that injury clause and it would be catastrophic. We can’t keep kicking the Jones can down the road as his cap hit gets higher and higher but his play is the same or slightly better. He needs to be MUCH better than anything we’ve seen. Some people put him on a pedestal for the 2022 season, by most starting QB standards it was still pretty pathetic but for Jones it was considered great. This experiment needs to end. 6 f’in years and fundamentally he really hasn’t improved on anything, Dabs just covered up his weaknesses until other teams figured it out hence ending the 2022 season by winning 3 of the last 9 games.
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