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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 20:37:57 GMT -5
Sort of ironically, Rich Gannon is about the only QB I can think of that was in the league for several years before he blossomed with the Raiders and became an MVP after like 10+ years in the league He was pretty much a middling QB up until about 1999, then he had 4 pretty good years with the Raiders. He had a strange career. So there is hope for Jones! Well, probably not.
He was a 2X all-pro and 4X pro bowler in addition to the MVP. Plus like you said, he experienced the lows and the highs of that position, so his opinion has value.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 17, 2024 20:38:53 GMT -5
"A one trick poney" imagine that, Saquon and perhaps the worst OL in the NFL? Not sure I agree with Gannon. I think our offense was designed to limit the negative impact of our OL which was decidedly horrendous. Run the ball to have more second and 6 situations, then use more short passing routes, sign a TE presence in Waller who might have given DJ some easy catch and runs. I could be wrong but I don't think it was all about SB. It was either Saquon or his first read and then run it if it wasn't there.People think Jones can't process beyond the first read which Rich's co-host mentioned, but Rich disagreed saying, you're talking about a guy who went to Duke. This kid has a brain. he needs to be protected and he needs a legitimate tight end, and some legitimate receivers. With all due respect to guys like Hogins, Slayton, and Robinson, that's not scaring anybody. Jones was sacked 17 times in a 7 day span, think about that? Every play, no, 95% yes that O line was bad. The pass blocking was horrible all the time the run blocking was better but still sucked. Did Jones miss some plays yes becuase he was getting killed ,if fans honestly can't see the connection and ignore that we just didn't loose Jones but had 3QB's get hurt and lost 4 kickers add in Saquan for a week or two add in the the O line was never the same players for what 11 games or any of the other injuries(waller) , any and all criticism of Jones must include all those facts or it's null and void. I will tell you respectfully say fans don't understand the game of football. If they did they would know that every Offensive play is designed to score a touchdown, everyone. As well as every Defensive scheme is designed to stop the Offense on every play. My Question to you is, does that happen, NO , of course not. Plays break down for a multitude of different reasons on both sides of the ball and I look at that. If Jones miss's an open man, why, was the open man open during the progression and the pocket collapsed ,did Jones see a better chance to pick up the first down and run? Was his line of vision blocked, maybe we in the stands and on TV can see it but at ground level with 6"5 and 6"6 linemen in your face rushing towards you could you see him? None of this we know but we judge them anyway and fans judge them like they know better, they don't.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 20:38:57 GMT -5
Which leads us to the thought of Alt at 6. Should we do it? IMPO we should grab a true #1 with that said I trust Schoen and Daboll whatever they do is fine with me, Bowers, Alt all good picks. I still think we grab a QB but later rounds. good lord. Bowers at #6 lol so we really fill no voids. Brilliant
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 20:39:59 GMT -5
Which leads us to the thought of Alt at 6. Should we do it? probably 👍 you do need receivers though. It’s a wide open league now. Almost everybody has a stud WR. Of course, they all have OL which block better and QBs they trust. I keep hearing WR's are a deep position. Maybe we should sign alt and go WR @ 2?
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Post by McCherry on Apr 17, 2024 20:40:35 GMT -5
Unless we install a Giant cement wall to protect any QB i cannot trust the players will. We keep discovering Fools gold. Which leads us to the thought of Alt at 6. Should we do it? They've already said they want to give Neal first crack at RT. Now we're benching him? And if you're moving Neal to Guard, then why are we paying Runyan starter money? Drafting Alt would mean Schoen botched the hell out of free agency. No, I believe this is the OL they intend to have. I really can't see an OL being drafted before the mid to later rounds.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 17, 2024 20:41:31 GMT -5
IMPO we should grab a true #1 with that said I trust Schoen and Daboll whatever they do is fine with me, Bowers, Alt all good picks. I still think we grab a QB but later rounds. good lord. Bowers at #6 lol so we really fill no voids. Brilliant So you think we are fine at TE, wow.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 20:51:40 GMT -5
probably 👍 you do need receivers though. It’s a wide open league now. Almost everybody has a stud WR. Of course, they all have OL which block better and QBs they trust. I keep hearing WR's are a deep position. Maybe we should sign alt and go WR @ 2? there are a lot of receivers. Yes. If two go earlier than expected then suddenly the crop gets thin
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 20:53:55 GMT -5
good lord. Bowers at #6 lol so we really fill no voids. Brilliant So you think we are fine at TE, wow. so lost. Value and slot is obviously not on your radar as we aren’t fine at QB, DE, WR, CB, etc either. and go look at the TEs picked in the 1st Round over the last 20 years and look at the results.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 21:12:50 GMT -5
Glad someone realizes how bad Daboll's offensive scheme was last season. But we need to cut Daboll some slack given that he didn't have much to work with. really cannot make this up. He had a bad scheme b/c he didn’t have enough pieces for a good scheme. priceless
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 17, 2024 21:27:26 GMT -5
probably 👍 you do need receivers though. It’s a wide open league now. Almost everybody has a stud WR. Of course, they all have OL which block better and QBs they trust. I keep hearing WR's are a deep position. Maybe we should sign alt and go WR @ 2? We have one of the best LT's in the league. You want to put him at RT? Then what to do with Neal?
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 21:31:21 GMT -5
I keep hearing WR's are a deep position. Maybe we should sign alt and go WR @ 2? We have one of the best LT's in the league. You want to put him at RT? Then what to do with Neal? Anybody want to help or should I just say Guard?
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 22:20:28 GMT -5
I keep hearing WR's are a deep position. Maybe we should sign alt and go WR @ 2? We have one of the best LT's in the league. You want to put him at RT? Then what to do with Neal?
Neal has given us zero reason to believe he's the answer at RT.
And if we consider a southpaw QB obviously that position becomes more important than ever.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 17, 2024 22:41:53 GMT -5
Is Alt as much of a “lock” as Neal was? Just curious.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 17, 2024 22:49:44 GMT -5
It was either Saquon or his first read and then run it if it wasn't there.People think Jones can't process beyond the first read which Rich's co-host mentioned, but Rich disagreed saying, you're talking about a guy who went to Duke. This kid has a brain. he needs to be protected and he needs a legitimate tight end, and some legitimate receivers. With all due respect to guys like Hogins, Slayton, and Robinson, that's not scaring anybody. Jones was sacked 17 times in a 7 day span, think about that? Every play, no, 95% yes that O line was bad. The pass blocking was horrible all the time the run blocking was better but still sucked. Did Jones miss some plays yes becuase he was getting killed ,if fans honestly can't see the connection and ignore that we just didn't loose Jones but had 3QB's get hurt and lost 4 kickers add in Saquan for a week or two add in the the O line was never the same players for what 11 games or any of the other injuries(waller) , any and all criticism of Jones must include all those facts or it's null and void. I will tell you respectfully say fans don't understand the game of football. If they did they would know that every Offensive play is designed to score a touchdown, everyone. As well as every Defensive scheme is designed to stop the Offense on every play. My Question to you is, does that happen, NO , of course not. Plays break down for a multitude of different reasons on both sides of the ball and I look at that. If Jones miss's an open man, why, was the open man open during the progression and the pocket collapsed ,did Jones see a better chance to pick up the first down and run? Was his line of vision blocked, maybe we in the stands and on TV can see it but at ground level with 6"5 and 6"6 linemen in your face rushing towards you could you see him? None of this we know but we judge them anyway and fans judge them like they know better, they don't. Hey Red, you could just say he sucks, no need to waste all those words with your bullshit. We’ve all seen him play for the past half a decade. Just stop.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 18, 2024 3:45:10 GMT -5
Jones was sacked 17 times in a 7 day span, think about that? Every play, no, 95% yes that O line was bad. The pass blocking was horrible all the time the run blocking was better but still sucked. Did Jones miss some plays yes becuase he was getting killed ,if fans honestly can't see the connection and ignore that we just didn't loose Jones but had 3QB's get hurt and lost 4 kickers add in Saquan for a week or two add in the the O line was never the same players for what 11 games or any of the other injuries(waller) , any and all criticism of Jones must include all those facts or it's null and void. I will tell you respectfully say fans don't understand the game of football. If they did they would know that every Offensive play is designed to score a touchdown, everyone. As well as every Defensive scheme is designed to stop the Offense on every play. My Question to you is, does that happen, NO , of course not. Plays break down for a multitude of different reasons on both sides of the ball and I look at that. If Jones miss's an open man, why, was the open man open during the progression and the pocket collapsed ,did Jones see a better chance to pick up the first down and run? Was his line of vision blocked, maybe we in the stands and on TV can see it but at ground level with 6"5 and 6"6 linemen in your face rushing towards you could you see him? None of this we know but we judge them anyway and fans judge them like they know better, they don't. Hey Red, you could just say he sucks, no need to waste all those words with your bullshit. We’ve all seen him play for the past half a decade. Just stop. I've notice facts bother you, shame.
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Apr 18, 2024 5:27:27 GMT -5
Glad someone realizes how bad Daboll's offensive scheme was last season. But we need to cut Daboll some slack given that he didn't have much to work with. really cannot make this up. He had a bad scheme b/c he didn’t have enough pieces for a good scheme. priceless That's not what I'm or Gannon are saying. Daboll's schemes were just bad. Priceless.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 5:48:01 GMT -5
I will tell you respectfully say fans don't understand the game of football. If they did they would know that every Offensive play is designed to score a touchdown, everyone. As well as every Defensive scheme is designed to stop the Offense on every play. My Question to you is, does that happen, NO , of course not. Plays break down for a multitude of different reasons on both sides of the ball and I look at that. If Jones miss's an open man, why, was the open man open during the progression and the pocket collapsed ,did Jones see a better chance to pick up the first down and run? Was his line of vision blocked, maybe we in the stands and on TV can see it but at ground level with 6"5 and 6"6 linemen in your face rushing towards you could you see him? None of this we know but we judge them anyway and fans judge them like they know better, they don't. so many holes 🕳️ 🕳️ it would take too long to clean up your take. .
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Post by Roswell on Apr 18, 2024 6:02:58 GMT -5
I’d have no problem with a top 3 WR or Alt. Either one fills a huge need.
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Post by Delicreep on Apr 18, 2024 6:09:28 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? I don't think he can. He doesn't see the blitz . He doesn't read post snap coverages. He needs improvement in that area. How many times did a free blitzer level DJ. You think if he knew the protections and read the defense he would see it. You think a offense designed around Saquon would be advantageous for a QB but it wasn't for DJ. Even when he does see it he is indecisive. There is a reason 3 coaches and 4 coordinators have not let DJ call the shots yet or give him more options. The play that cemented DJ lack of situational awareness was the play against the Eagles in the playoffs where it was a 2 and 3 and he decided to run out of bounds for a 3 yard loss to make it 3rd and 6 . He could have easily thrown it away. I just shook my head. But other than those things, Jones is great.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 18, 2024 6:17:50 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? also Kiper on Nfln the other night as well talked about the O line and WR situation as in him never having a no. 1 sure other qb's make WR's look better and such but I'm curious to see if he can be at least a decent qb if he has a little bit of help. Not everything perfect around him but just things that are decent........
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 18, 2024 6:20:17 GMT -5
probably 👍 you do need receivers though. It’s a wide open league now. Almost everybody has a stud WR. Of course, they all have OL which block better and QBs they trust. I keep hearing WR's are a deep position. Maybe we should sign alt and go WR @ 2? I've been hearing WR's will be deep through maybe and it sounded like thru the first 3 rounds; like 17 to 20 of them at the least
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 6:28:38 GMT -5
I keep hearing WR's are a deep position. Maybe we should sign alt and go WR @ 2? I've been hearing WR's will be deep through maybe and it sounded like thru the first 3 rounds; like 17 to 20 of them at the least Imo, it’s more like 10-12 with 3-4 who appear to be studs and many others with a lot of upside yet more in question than the top ones. In this league you can find many who can catch a football yet the battle for a top receiver is fierce imo. I can see many of these WR being the #2 receiver on many teams yet clearly a #1 on the Giants.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 18, 2024 6:34:47 GMT -5
I’d have no problem with a top 3 WR or Alt. Either one fills a huge need. IMPO we should grab a true #1 with that said I trust Schoen and Daboll whatever they do is fine with me, Bowers, Alt all good picks. I still think we grab a QB but later rounds. I agree and like you see many holes that can be filled ,really isn't a bad pick to be made. Bowers has been suggested due to Waller 's retirement issue. If he goes we need one being that the draft seems to be deep in WR a TE isn't far fetched.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 18, 2024 6:40:47 GMT -5
Hey Red, you could just say he sucks, no need to waste all those words with your bullshit. We’ve all seen him play for the past half a decade. Just stop. I've notice facts bother you, shame. Facts don’t bother me, you do. I actually like facts and well educated opinions which is why I don’t like you.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 18, 2024 6:47:32 GMT -5
I actually like facts and well educated opinions Odd, your posts don't seem to reflect that.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 18, 2024 6:48:45 GMT -5
Hey Red, you could just say he sucks, no need to waste all those words with your bullshit. We’ve all seen him play for the past half a decade. Just stop. I've notice facts bother you, shame. Hey Red, how many of Jones injuries were caused either by non contact or from him not sliding or getting out of bounds? I’m pretty sure the O line didn’t cause Jones to try and run over a defender that weighed 100 lbs more than him at the goal line. How many of those 4 kickers were hurt because they were hit by defenders? How many times has Tyrod been hurt prior to playing behind the Giants O line? Jones never had a good line but to blame every injury Jones, the kickers or the other QB’s had on the O line is one of the most ignorant things I’ve ever seen you write and that’s tough to beat. The only one not seeing the connection is you…to the surprise of no one. And now you’ve resorted to making the excuse for Jones not seeing open receivers, on many more occasions than any QB should, is because we’re not in his shoes? 😂 Were you drinking last night or was that post just your normal altered football mental status, ya know, Red being Red, Mendy being Red, Red being Mendy, Mendy being Miggs, Miggs being Red?
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Post by vinnie on Apr 18, 2024 6:56:59 GMT -5
I actually like facts and well educated opinions Odd, your posts don't seem to reflect that. Oh Red, you’re a gem. A delusional gem.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 18, 2024 6:57:47 GMT -5
We have one of the best LT's in the league. You want to put him at RT? Then what to do with Neal?
Neal has given us zero reason to believe he's the answer at RT.
And if we consider a southpaw QB obviously that position becomes more important than ever.
Alt is an excellent prospect, but he's pretty much only played on the left side. Analysts speculate that he'll be able to make the move to the right if needed, but that still is speculation. In our situation, I prefer Fuaga, since he is a natural RT. I still think we should take Nabers, Odunze or Harrison Jr if any are available over the tackles though...
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 7:03:18 GMT -5
I’d have no problem with a top 3 WR or Alt. Either one fills a huge need. IMPO we should grab a true #1 with that said I trust Schoen and Daboll whatever they do is fine with me, Bowers, Alt all good picks. I still think we grab a QB but later rounds. I agree and like you see many holes that can be filled ,really isn't a bad pick to be made. Bowers has been suggested due to Waller 's retirement issue. If he goes we need one being that the draft seems to be deep in WR a TE isn't far fetched. lazy take ignoring the past two decades of TEs, including 🦄 unicorns, drafted in Round 1 and the results.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 18, 2024 7:20:20 GMT -5
I've been hearing WR's will be deep through maybe and it sounded like thru the first 3 rounds; like 17 to 20 of them at the least Imo, it’s more like 10-12 with 3-4 who appear to be studs and many others with a lot of upside yet more in question than the top ones. In this league you can find many who can catch a football yet the battle for a top receiver is fierce imo. I can see many of these WR being the #2 receiver on many teams yet clearly a #1 on the Giants. true I can see that as well
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