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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 12:20:09 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon.
He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help.
Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line?
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 12:22:00 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? So now the Giants are a no-trick pony?
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Post by jmike on Apr 17, 2024 12:24:51 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? So now the Giants are a no-trick pony?
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 12:29:59 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? So now the Giants are a no-trick pony? 1st things first. Protect your 40 million dollar investment first and foremost and go from there.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 17, 2024 12:30:08 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? "A one trick poney" imagine that, Saquon and perhaps the worst OL in the NFL? Not sure I agree with Gannon. I think our offense was designed to limit the negative impact of our OL which was decidedly horrendous. Run the ball to have more second and 6 situations, then use more short passing routes, sign a TE presence in Waller who might have given DJ some easy catch and runs. I could be wrong but I don't think it was all about SB.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 12:56:04 GMT -5
So now the Giants are a no-trick pony? 1st things first. Protect your 40 million dollar investment first and foremost and go from there. Unless we install a Giant cement wall to protect any QB i cannot trust the players will. We keep discovering Fools gold.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 17, 2024 13:18:28 GMT -5
So now the Giants are a no-trick pony? 1st things first. Protect your 40 million dollar investment first and foremost and go from there. Mehā¦I think itās time Schoen folds āem and cuts his 40 million dollar loss. I know what you mean Rosey, but it made me think of this song.
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Post by ratbastich on Apr 17, 2024 13:35:37 GMT -5
In 2022 the offense was designed to limit Daniel Jones' mistakes by cutting down on turnovers and trying to salvage him. Even before going into the season, in camp, Daboll had said that he was not going to hold him back and figured that the limitations that were put on Jones previously were probably what led to his problems. I think they gave him enough leash so that he could grow but not get too wild. They were in his ear and were developing him. This last year, they took the reins off and shit went south quick. They got punched in the pee pee.
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Post by nygiantfanalways on Apr 17, 2024 13:42:09 GMT -5
In 2022 the offense was designed to limit Daniel Jones' mistakes by cutting down on turnovers and trying to salvage him. Even before going into the season, in camp, Daboll had said that he was not going to hold him back and figured that the limitations that were put on Jones previously were probably what led to his problems. I think they gave him enough leash so that he could grow but not get too wild. They were in his ear and were developing him. This last year, they took the reins off and shit went south quick. They got punched in the pee pee. The problem with Jones is he doesn't see the whole field well. Maybe its because his eyes are too close together. IDK. It also seems he has a problem processing the information fast enough. This was very apparent when he went down and the backups had to play. The backups saw the field and processed the information way better. Just my opinion.
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 17, 2024 13:42:52 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line?
Why did Tommy Devito and Tyrod Taylor both look more explosive in that same hamstrung offense? Also, who's to say DJ isn't changing the plays at the line? If he isn't, that seems like more of an indictment on DJ and his ability to process a defense. Based on his post snap reads, I can actually see that being the case.
Enough with the excuses. DJ is a bottom half of the league QB. He's a game manager who can win games when everything around him is in place. When you're making nearly 20% of the total cap then you need to do more than that. You need to be able to pick up slack and make others around you better. DJ does neither.
Honestly, as much as I'm not a fan of DJ, the idea of running it back with him, Luck, and Devito wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the injury clause. With that clause in place, our hand is essentially forced to draft a QB this season. We cannot go into 2025 owing DJ ~$50M. That's the epitome of QB hell.
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te88
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Post by te88 on Apr 17, 2024 13:45:34 GMT -5
I do think there is an angle you can argue that the Giants are going to be better off without Saquon. Itās going to naturally cause them to balance things out.
When Saquon was drafted one of the issues you could predict right away was that they were going to feed him a lot of touches no matter what.
Unfortunately Saquon was never the Swiss Army knife kind of RB that is ideal these days if youāre going to run the whole O through him. He makes his plays starting behind the line of scrimmage most of the timeā¦whether itās a hand off, toss or a catch on a wheel/flat.
Not a guy you would see split out wide or in the slot much. I remember everyone saying he had āgreat handsā but I never saw it really. Just run of the mill pass catching RB checkdown stuff.
Saquons value was that he could turn a busted or low-value play into a big play or even a score. But sometimes what you need is a guy who can make plays within design. For a RB coming out of the backfield the design is dependent on the OL, and if the RB can break 1 tackle or make a guy miss then you get the āextraā
We need to āspread it aroundā and be putting the ball in the hands of the open guy - regardless of who it is - instead of forcing things or designing things or pinning hopes on one player
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 17, 2024 13:54:03 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? I don't think he can. He doesn't see the blitz . He doesn't read post snap coverages. He needs improvement in that area. How many times did a free blitzer level DJ. You think if he knew the protections and read the defense he would see it. You think a offense designed around Saquon would be advantageous for a QB but it wasn't for DJ. Even when he does see it he is indecisive. There is a reason 3 coaches and 4 coordinators have not let DJ call the shots yet or give him more options. The play that cemented DJ lack of situational awareness was the play against the Eagles in the playoffs where it was a 2 and 3 and he decided to run out of bounds for a 3 yard loss to make it 3rd and 6 . He could have easily thrown it away. I just shook my head.
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Post by ratbastich on Apr 17, 2024 14:00:18 GMT -5
In 2022 the offense was designed to limit Daniel Jones' mistakes by cutting down on turnovers and trying to salvage him. Even before going into the season, in camp, Daboll had said that he was not going to hold him back and figured that the limitations that were put on Jones previously were probably what led to his problems. I think they gave him enough leash so that he could grow but not get too wild. They were in his ear and were developing him. This last year, they took the reins off and shit went south quick. They got punched in the pee pee. The problem with Jones is he doesn't see the whole field well. Maybe its because his eyes are too close together. IDK. It also seems he has a problem processing the information fast enough. This was very apparent when he went down and the backups had to play. The backups saw the field and processed the information way better. Just my opinion. According to that photo, his eyes are askew hahahah. He has Chameleon eyes and should see everything
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 17, 2024 14:02:07 GMT -5
I do think there is an angle you can argue that the Giants are going to be better off without Saquon. Itās going to naturally cause them to balance things out. When Saquon was drafted one of the issues you could predict right away was that they were going to feed him a lot of touches no matter what.Unfortunately Saquon was never the Swiss Army knife kind of RB that is ideal these days if youāre going to run the whole O through him. He makes his plays starting behind the line of scrimmage most of the timeā¦whether itās a hand off, toss or a catch on a wheel/flat. Not a guy you would see split out wide or in the slot much. I remember everyone saying he had āgreat handsā but I never saw it really. Just run of the mill pass catching RB checkdown stuff. Saquons value was that he could turn a busted or low-value play into a big play or even a score. But sometimes what you need is a guy who can make plays within design. For a RB coming out of the backfield the design is dependent on the OL, and if the RB can break 1 tackle or make a guy miss then you get the āextraā We need to āspread it aroundā and be putting the ball in the hands of the open guy - regardless of who it is - instead of forcing things or designing things or pinning hopes on one player I don't believe SB got at lot of touches at all. He only had 5 games last year where he touched the ball more than 20 times. Same in 2022. *Also Saquon caught 90 plus passes for 700 plus yards in 2018. Wr2 numbers borderline WR1 on bad teams. Darius Slayton numbers and he is the number 1 WR on the Giants the last 4 years.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Apr 17, 2024 14:36:40 GMT -5
Sort of ironically, Rich Gannon is about the only QB I can think of that was in the league for several years before he blossomed with the Raiders and became an MVP after like 10+ years in the league
He was pretty much a middling QB up until about 1999, then he had 4 pretty good years with the Raiders. He had a strange career.
So there is hope for Jones! Well, probably not.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 14:46:30 GMT -5
Sort of ironically, Rich Gannon is about the only QB I can think of that was in the league for several years before he blossomed with the Raiders and became an MVP after like 10+ years in the league He was pretty much a middling QB up until about 1999, then he had 4 pretty good years with the Raiders. He had a strange career. So there is hope for Jones! Well, probably not. Cousins is the closest i can think of
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nyg2
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Post by nyg2 on Apr 17, 2024 14:49:40 GMT -5
In 2022 the offense was designed to limit Daniel Jones' mistakes by cutting down on turnovers and trying to salvage him. Even before going into the season, in camp, Daboll had said that he was not going to hold him back and figured that the limitations that were put on Jones previously were probably what led to his problems. I think they gave him enough leash so that he could grow but not get too wild. They were in his ear and were developing him. This last year, they took the reins off and shit went south quick. They got punched in the pee pee. The problem with Jones is he doesn't see the whole field well. Maybe its because his eyes are too close together. IDK. It also seems he has a problem processing the information fast enough. This was very apparent when he went down and the backups had to play. The backups saw the field and processed the information way better. Just my opinion. I'm sure he would beg to differ....
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Post by McCherry on Apr 17, 2024 15:22:43 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? Tiki retiring was the best thing for Eli. I think there's something to it. And Barkley isn't half the player Barber was even in his 10th season. If Jones is playing, let him sling it.
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Apr 17, 2024 15:28:20 GMT -5
Glad someone realizes how bad Daboll's offensive scheme was last season. But we need to cut Daboll some slack given that he didn't have much to work with.
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Post by SG88 on Apr 17, 2024 15:44:36 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? They hamstrung him because he stunk when they tried to give him more advanced concepts to work with. It made next to no sense giving a QB that limited the kind of money that we did. They should have franchised him at most. Damn, he totally hoodwinked this organization. The guy basically forgot how to play the moment he got the š° š
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Post by inconvenientruth on Apr 17, 2024 15:58:09 GMT -5
The problem with Jones is he doesn't see the whole field well. Maybe its because his eyes are too close together. IDK. It also seems he has a problem processing the information fast enough. This was very apparent when he went down and the backups had to play. The backups saw the field and processed the information way better. Just my opinion.Ā I'm sure he would beg to differ.... He's sees to much is the problem š Can't make line checks if you can't read defences. If you can't read defences, you understand why Jones is a 1-read and run QB. He has not counter when you crash down on the first option (usually a flat route) I wish we could put an all-pro OL around him to prove this. It will make him better, maximize his below average QB play. What does that get us?
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te88
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Post by te88 on Apr 17, 2024 16:20:35 GMT -5
I do think there is an angle you can argue that the Giants are going to be better off without Saquon. Itās going to naturally cause them to balance things out. When Saquon was drafted one of the issues you could predict right away was that they were going to feed him a lot of touches no matter what.Unfortunately Saquon was never the Swiss Army knife kind of RB that is ideal these days if youāre going to run the whole O through him. He makes his plays starting behind the line of scrimmage most of the timeā¦whether itās a hand off, toss or a catch on a wheel/flat. Not a guy you would see split out wide or in the slot much. I remember everyone saying he had āgreat handsā but I never saw it really. Just run of the mill pass catching RB checkdown stuff. Saquons value was that he could turn a busted or low-value play into a big play or even a score. But sometimes what you need is a guy who can make plays within design. For a RB coming out of the backfield the design is dependent on the OL, and if the RB can break 1 tackle or make a guy miss then you get the āextraā We need to āspread it aroundā and be putting the ball in the hands of the open guy - regardless of who it is - instead of forcing things or designing things or pinning hopes on one player I don't believe SB got at lot of touches at all. He only had 5 games last year where he touched the ball more than 20 times. Same in 2022. *Also Saquon caught 90 plus passes for 700 plus yards in 2018. Wr2 numbers borderline WR1 on bad teams. Darius Slayton numbers and he is the number 1 WR on the Giants the last 4 years. As I said, those catches and yards came on checkdown Charlie plays. He was not a dynamic pass catcher for the Giants. If anything those number simply signal the issue with Saquon where they were quick to give up on plays and check down to him because they had nobody else o open or didnāt have the confidence to push the ball downfield. Yes the new regime started to use him more appropriately than past ones, still not ideal running an O through this player.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 17, 2024 18:18:54 GMT -5
I don't believe SB got at lot of touches at all. He only had 5 games last year where he touched the ball more than 20 times. Same in 2022. *Also Saquon caught 90 plus passes for 700 plus yards in 2018. Wr2 numbers borderline WR1 on bad teams. Darius Slayton numbers and he is the number 1 WR on the Giants the last 4 years. As I said, those catches and yards came on checkdown Charlie plays. He was not a dynamic pass catcher for the Giants. If anything those number simply signal the issue with Saquon where they were quick to give up on plays and check down to him because they had nobody else o open or didnāt have the confidence to push the ball downfield. Yes the new regime started to use him more appropriately than past ones, still not ideal running an O through this player. No ELI and SB more Explosive plays than DJ and SB Eli Manning average 11.3 yards per completion in 2018 Saquon 7.9 yards per reception in 2018, 16 20+ yard plays, 7 40+ plus yard plays Dj 10.1 yards per completion in 2022 playoff year SAquon 5.9 yards per reception in 2022 playoff year, 9 20+ yards plays , 2 40+ yards plays
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 19:57:55 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? "A one trick poney" imagine that, Saquon and perhaps the worst OL in the NFL? Not sure I agree with Gannon. I think our offense was designed to limit the negative impact of our OL which was decidedly horrendous. Run the ball to have more second and 6 situations, then use more short passing routes, sign a TE presence in Waller who might have given DJ some easy catch and runs. I could be wrong but I don't think it was all about SB. It was either Saquon or his first read and then run it if it wasn't there. People think Jones can't process beyond the first read which Rich's co-host mentioned, but Rich disagreed saying, you're talking about a guy who went to Duke. This kid has a brain. he needs to be protected and he needs a legitimate tight end, and some legitimate receivers. With all due respect to guys like Hogins, Slayton, and Robinson, that's not scaring anybody.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 19:58:57 GMT -5
1st things first. Protect your 40 million dollar investment first and foremost and go from there. Unless we install a Giant cement wall to protect any QB i cannot trust the players will. We keep discovering Fools gold. Which leads us to the thought of Alt at 6. Should we do it?
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 20:01:35 GMT -5
1st things first. Protect your 40 million dollar investment first and foremost and go from there. Mehā¦I think itās time Schoen folds āem and cuts his 40 million dollar loss. I know what you mean Rosey, but it made me think of this song.
I'm not sure his ego will allow that just yet. I'm not saying that based on his personality, but if Daniel and the offense don't bounce back that is a serious blow to Schoen/Daboll.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 20:14:31 GMT -5
In 2022 the offense was designed to limit Daniel Jones' mistakes by cutting down on turnovers and trying to salvage him. Even before going into the season, in camp, Daboll had said that he was not going to hold him back and figured that the limitations that were put on Jones previously were probably what led to his problems. I think they gave him enough leash so that he could grow but not get too wild. They were in his ear and were developing him. This last year, they took the reins off and shit went south quick. They got punched in the pee pee.
I can't buy that and I'll tell you why. Because if that's the case then that would mean that Joe, Brian, and John Mara sat down and after careful consideration and analysis decided to over-pay a QB2 to the tune of about $85 million for two wasted seasons.
And if that's the case then the regime needs to be shown the door along with Daniel Jones.
You can't have it any other way.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 17, 2024 20:16:08 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? They hamstrung him because he stunk when they tried to give him more advanced concepts to work with. It made next to no sense giving a QB that limited the kind of money that we did. They should have franchised him at most. Damn, he totally hoodwinked this organization. The guy basically forgot how to play the moment he got the š° š
You're not alone with this opinion but see post #26 for my take on this.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 17, 2024 20:30:59 GMT -5
Unless we install a Giant cement wall to protect any QB i cannot trust the players will. We keep discovering Fools gold. Which leads us to the thought of Alt at 6. Should we do it? probably š you do need receivers though. Itās a wide open league now. Almost everybody has a stud WR. Of course, they all have OL which block better and QBs they trust.
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Apr 17, 2024 20:31:06 GMT -5
Unless we install a Giant cement wall to protect any QB i cannot trust the players will. We keep discovering Fools gold. Which leads us to the thought of Alt at 6. Should we do it? IMPO we should grab a true #1 with that said I trust Schoen and Daboll whatever they do is fine with me, Bowers, Alt all good picks. I still think we grab a QB but later rounds.
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