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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 18, 2024 10:44:40 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? I don't think he can. He doesn't see the blitz . He doesn't read post snap coverages. He needs improvement in that area. How many times did a free blitzer level DJ. You think if he knew the protections and read the defense he would see it. You think a offense designed around Saquon would be advantageous for a QB but it wasn't for DJ. Even when he does see it he is indecisive. There is a reason 3 coaches and 4 coordinators have not let DJ call the shots yet or give him more options. The play that cemented DJ lack of situational awareness was the play against the Eagles in the playoffs where it was a 2 and 3 and he decided to run out of bounds for a 3 yard loss to make it 3rd and 6 . He could have easily thrown it away. I just shook my head.
I have a question and I don't mean to disparage you or anyone else who believes the same thing.
If you see this, why doesn't Rich Gannon, former NFL quarterback and league MVP, 2X All-Pro and 4X Pro Bowler?
And it's not just Rich. I've read fan's opinions on specific plays while listening to other pro quarterbacks discuss the very same play. Guys like Peyton Manning or Phil Simms.
I cannot imagine trusting my interpretation of a play over that of a former pro player who played the position. Especially a very successful one. How do you reconcile that?
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 18, 2024 10:49:15 GMT -5
I've been hearing WR's will be deep through maybe and it sounded like thru the first 3 rounds; like 17 to 20 of them at the least Imo, it’s more like 10-12 with 3-4 who appear to be studs and many others with a lot of upside yet more in question than the top ones. In this league you can find many who can catch a football yet the battle for a top receiver is fierce imo. I can see many of these WR being the #2 receiver on many teams yet clearly a #1 on the Giants.
Thus another reason we suck offensively.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 18, 2024 11:04:22 GMT -5
Remember back in 2019 when Jones replaced Eli and became the talk of the league for a couple weeks? Yes there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then, but this guy has the talent. The question is, can he stay healthy and has this team set him up to succeed? In watching this clip below, I noticed one thing. Many of Jones' top plays were to Golden Tate - pretty good receiver who was past his prime by the time he became a Giant. Go figure.
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Post by idkaname on Apr 18, 2024 11:06:06 GMT -5
In 2022 the offense was designed to limit Daniel Jones' mistakes by cutting down on turnovers and trying to salvage him. Even before going into the season, in camp, Daboll had said that he was not going to hold him back and figured that the limitations that were put on Jones previously were probably what led to his problems. I think they gave him enough leash so that he could grow but not get too wild. They were in his ear and were developing him. This last year, they took the reins off and shit went south quick. They got punched in the pee pee. This keeps being recycled but isn't even true. Maybe what we saw was literally just this offensive style this team employs. Everyone kept talking about "opening the playbook" etc. but they literally never did that. Even with Tyrod / Devito it was still the same basic screens / slants. I don't even remember a single post play that was attempted or completed. It's been a design flaw more than the QB play up to now but yall aint ready for that discussion so I've been lurking and laughing at posts like this for over a year Can you show me examples of these "reigns" that were put on in 2022 and taken off in 2023? the offense was the largely the SAME exact plays |
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Post by idkaname on Apr 18, 2024 11:09:10 GMT -5
really cannot make this up. He had a bad scheme b/c he didn’t have enough pieces for a good scheme. priceless That's not what I'm of Gannon are saying. Daboll's schemes were just bad. Priceless. Not sure why people could scapegoat Garrett / Fudge but give the benefit of the doubt to Daboll / Kafka. They're offenses (aside from creativity) are the same. Short passes / screens. You can tell by the WRs they have accumulated. Shurmur actually had a plan to attack the deeper parts of the field and we saw what Jones did. He had more turnovers sure, but he was also a rookie too...so he wasn't familiar with different looks on D |
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Post by idkaname on Apr 18, 2024 11:11:29 GMT -5
Remember back in 2019 when Jones replaced Eli and became the talk of the league for a couple weeks? Yes there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then, but this guy has the talent. The question is, can he stay healthy and has this team set him up to succeed? In watching this clip below, I noticed one thing. Many of Jones' top plays were to Golden Tate - pretty good receiver who was past his prime by the time he became a Giant. Go figure.
I've looked into Jones' past success before too... this was my conclusion: thegiantsboard.proboards.com/post/888732 |
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Post by inthezone on Apr 18, 2024 11:14:36 GMT -5
That's not what I'm of Gannon are saying. Daboll's schemes were just bad. Priceless. Not sure why people could scapegoat Garrett / Fudge but give the benefit of the doubt to Daboll / Kafka. They're offenses (aside from creativity) are the same. Short passes / screens. You can tell by the WRs they have accumulated. Shurmur actually had a plan to attack the deeper parts of the field and we saw what Jones did. He had more turnovers sure, but he was also a rookie too...so he wasn't familiar with different looks on D Didn't we see the Giants attack the deeper parts of the field once Jones wasn't on the field? I have seen enough film breakdown where a Giants receiver is wide open down the field but Jones would check it down instead. With this said I disagree that the Kafka offense doesn't attack down the field and I feel his plan has been a good one. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 11:15:29 GMT -5
Remember back in 2019 when Jones replaced Eli and became the talk of the league for a couple weeks? Yes there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then, but this guy has the talent. The question is, can he stay healthy and has this team set him up to succeed? In watching this clip below, I noticed one thing. Many of Jones' top plays were to Golden Tate - pretty good receiver who was past his prime by the time he became a Giant. Go figure.
he does have some highlights. Before we get excited are the highlights any better than many QBs? Not challenging one way or another as we really want him to work out . . . it’s been many years. funny though, watching that video there were some long duration of plays in which the scoreboard indicated the Giants were losing or tied. Was thinking “do we ever lead” lol.😂 Watch it again 😂 |
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Post by idkaname on Apr 18, 2024 11:17:35 GMT -5
Not sure why people could scapegoat Garrett / Fudge but give the benefit of the doubt to Daboll / Kafka. They're offenses (aside from creativity) are the same. Short passes / screens. You can tell by the WRs they have accumulated. Shurmur actually had a plan to attack the deeper parts of the field and we saw what Jones did. He had more turnovers sure, but he was also a rookie too...so he wasn't familiar with different looks on D I have seen enough film breakdown where a Giants receiver is wide open down the field but Jones would check it down instead. With this said I disagree that the Kafka offense doesn't attack down the field and I feel his plan has been a good one. Nope, I'm not going to dig it up again but I've said this dozens of times. The numbers don't prove that at all. Jones actually had a higher % of "deep" balls thrown than Tyrod compared to total passes. The only success the other QBs had over Jones was better YAC from the WRs. Look all of those numbers up before telling me what your eyes saw, because they're lying. |
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Post by inthezone on Apr 18, 2024 11:21:55 GMT -5
Didn't we see the Giants attack the deeper parts of the field once Jones wasn't on the field?I have seen enough film breakdown where a Giants receiver is wide open down the field but Jones would check it down instead. With this said I disagree that the Kafka offense doesn't attack down the field and I feel his plan has been a good one. Nope, I'm not going to dig it up again but I've said this dozens of times. The numbers don't prove that at all. Jones actually had a higher % of "deep" balls thrown than Tyrod compared to total passes. The only success the other QBs had over Jones was better YAC from the WRs. Look all of those numbers up before telling me what your eyes saw, because they're lying. Like I said we will have to disagree on this. Even when Jones did throw a bomb the receivers would have to slow down or come back for that pass causing very little YAC yards. I'm curious if you consider 20 yard passes as the deeper parts of the field which I am in this discussion. |
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 18, 2024 11:25:12 GMT -5
Didn't we see the Giants attack the deeper parts of the field once Jones wasn't on the field?I have seen enough film breakdown where a Giants receiver is wide open down the field but Jones would check it down instead. With this said I disagree that the Kafka offense doesn't attack down the field and I feel his plan has been a good one. Nope, I'm not going to dig it up again but I've said this dozens of times. The numbers don't prove that at all. Jones actually had a higher % of "deep" balls thrown than Tyrod compared to total passes. The only success the other QBs had over Jones was better YAC from the WRs. Look all of those numbers up before telling me what your eyes saw, because they're lying. Don’t forget to spit when you’re done.. |
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 18, 2024 11:50:01 GMT -5
I don't think he can. He doesn't see the blitz . He doesn't read post snap coverages. He needs improvement in that area. How many times did a free blitzer level DJ. You think if he knew the protections and read the defense he would see it. You think a offense designed around Saquon would be advantageous for a QB but it wasn't for DJ. Even when he does see it he is indecisive. There is a reason 3 coaches and 4 coordinators have not let DJ call the shots yet or give him more options. The play that cemented DJ lack of situational awareness was the play against the Eagles in the playoffs where it was a 2 and 3 and he decided to run out of bounds for a 3 yard loss to make it 3rd and 6 . He could have easily thrown it away. I just shook my head.
I have a question and I don't mean to disparage you or anyone else who believes the same thing.
If you see this, why doesn't Rich Gannon, former NFL quarterback and league MVP, 2X All-Pro and 4X Pro Bowler?
And it's not just Rich. I've read fan's opinions on specific plays while listening to other pro quarterbacks discuss the very same play. Guys like Peyton Manning or Phil Simms.
I cannot imagine trusting my interpretation of a play over that of a former pro player who played the position. Especially a very successful one. How do you reconcile that?
I am just a fan. Gannon needs a paycheck. *In end we are both free to speak our opinions. I do understand why you would listen to Gannon's opinions. I have formed my own the last 6 years and unless DJ turns it around it will probably remain that way. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 18, 2024 12:50:38 GMT -5
Remember back in 2019 when Jones replaced Eli and became the talk of the league for a couple weeks? Yes there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then, but this guy has the talent. The question is, can he stay healthy and has this team set him up to succeed? In watching this clip below, I noticed one thing. Many of Jones' top plays were to Golden Tate - pretty good receiver who was past his prime by the time he became a Giant. Go figure.
he does have some highlights. Before we get excited are the highlights any better than many QBs? Not challenging one way or another as we really want him to work out . . . it’s been many years. funny though, watching that video there were some long duration of plays in which the scoreboard indicated the Giants were losing or tied. Was thinking “do we ever lead” lol.😂 Watch it again 😂 I noticed something about Jones' delivery looking a bit odd. Perhaps he wasn't stepping into his throws? |
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Post by nygiantfanalways on Apr 18, 2024 13:17:10 GMT -5
The problem with Jones is he doesn't see the whole field well. Maybe its because his eyes are too close together. IDK. It also seems he has a problem processing the information fast enough. This was very apparent when he went down and the backups had to play. The backups saw the field and processed the information way better. Just my opinion. I'm sure he would beg to differ....    |
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 13:45:41 GMT -5
he does have some highlights. Before we get excited are the highlights any better than many QBs? Not challenging one way or another as we really want him to work out . . . it’s been many years. funny though, watching that video there were some long duration of plays in which the scoreboard indicated the Giants were losing or tied. Was thinking “do we ever lead” lol.😂 Watch it again 😂 I noticed something about Jones' delivery looking a bit odd. Perhaps he wasn't stepping into his throws? he often always throws off his back foot. It’s why all his highlights are the same. He throws the ball short less often or runs. |
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Post by Nick6475 on Apr 18, 2024 13:47:59 GMT -5
I noticed something about Jones' delivery looking a bit odd. Perhaps he wasn't stepping into his throws? he often always throws off his back foot. It’s why all his highlights are the same. He throws the ball short less often or runs. Sex Panther...60% of the time it works every time. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 13:50:35 GMT -5
he often always throws off his back foot. It’s why all his highlights are the same. He throws the ball short less often or runs. Sex Panther...60% of the time it works every time. that’s great!! 😁 |
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 18, 2024 14:34:49 GMT -5
I noticed something about Jones' delivery looking a bit odd. Perhaps he wasn't stepping into his throws? he often always throws off his back foot. It’s why all his highlights are the same. He throws the ball short less often or runs. Yeah he looks uneasy most of the time. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 14:46:17 GMT -5
he often always throws off his back foot. It’s why all his highlights are the same. He throws the ball short less often or runs. Yeah he looks uneasy most of the time. it’s accurate yet feels uncertain, doesn’t it? |
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Apr 18, 2024 14:52:53 GMT -5
Not sure why people could scapegoat Garrett / Fudge but give the benefit of the doubt to Daboll / Kafka. They're offenses (aside from creativity) are the same. Short passes / screens. You can tell by the WRs they have accumulated. Shurmur actually had a plan to attack the deeper parts of the field and we saw what Jones did. He had more turnovers sure, but he was also a rookie too...so he wasn't familiar with different looks on D Didn't we see the Giants attack the deeper parts of the field once Jones wasn't on the field? I have seen enough film breakdown where a Giants receiver is wide open down the field but Jones would check it down instead. With this said I disagree that the Kafka offense doesn't attack down the field and I feel his plan has been a good one. Daboll didn't want to see Jones get hurt so he went to short game.Jones still got hurt. Daboll did open game a little with DeVito. |
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 18, 2024 15:01:26 GMT -5
Didn't we see the Giants attack the deeper parts of the field once Jones wasn't on the field? I have seen enough film breakdown where a Giants receiver is wide open down the field but Jones would check it down instead. With this said I disagree that the Kafka offense doesn't attack down the field and I feel his plan has been a good one. Daboll didn't want to see Jones get hurt so he went to short game.Jones still got hurt. Daboll did open game a little with DeVito. you honestly don’t have the ability to recognize your own contradictions. |
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Post by idkaname on Apr 18, 2024 15:08:16 GMT -5
Nope, I'm not going to dig it up again but I've said this dozens of times. The numbers don't prove that at all. Jones actually had a higher % of "deep" balls thrown than Tyrod compared to total passes. The only success the other QBs had over Jones was better YAC from the WRs. Look all of those numbers up before telling me what your eyes saw, because they're lying. Like I said we will have to disagree on this. Even when Jones did throw a bomb the receivers would have to slow down or come back for that pass causing very little YAC yards. I'm curious if you consider 20 yard passes as the deeper parts of the field which I am in this discussion. ONLY 20+ yard passes were included |
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Post by idkaname on Apr 18, 2024 15:08:36 GMT -5
Nope, I'm not going to dig it up again but I've said this dozens of times. The numbers don't prove that at all. Jones actually had a higher % of "deep" balls thrown than Tyrod compared to total passes. The only success the other QBs had over Jones was better YAC from the WRs. Look all of those numbers up before telling me what your eyes saw, because they're lying. Don’t forget to spit when you’re done.. I'm no quitter |
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 18, 2024 20:25:10 GMT -5
Yeah he looks uneasy most of the time. it’s accurate yet feels uncertain, doesn’t it? Meaning he's usually accurate but you don't have that sense upon his release? I get that.
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Post by Roosevelt on Apr 18, 2024 20:55:37 GMT -5
Great example right here of Giants football.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 18, 2024 22:53:01 GMT -5
Daniel Jones is talented. He has a very good arm. He's accurate. He can move. He can run. So many measurables.
But he sucks in the pocket. He's the "anti-Tom Brady". He has no idea where the rush is coming from....even pre-snap. Every drop back is a fire drill. No calm in the pocket. His mind is slower than the game around him. He locks on to one receiver because his mind is not relaxed in the pocket.
It might be coached out of him by year 2. Maybe year 3 on the outside. But not year 6. He is what he is and he can't get better....only worse.
I promise you that the powers that be with our team now see this. He may or may not be our QB in 2024 but he damned sure won't be in 2025.
I'm telling all you fine folks...you need to accept this.
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 19, 2024 2:18:28 GMT -5
Daniel Jones is talented. He has a very good arm. He's accurate. He can move. He can run. So many measurables. But he sucks in the pocket. He's the "anti-Tom Brady". He has no idea where the rush is coming from....even pre-snap. Every drop back is a fire drill. No calm in the pocket. His mind is slower than the game around him. He locks on to one receiver because his mind is not relaxed in the pocket. It might be coached out of him by year 2. Maybe year 3 on the outside. But not year 6. He is what he is and he can't get better....only worse. I promise you that the powers that be with our team now see this. He may or may not be our QB in 2024 but he damned sure won't be in 2025. I'm telling all you fine folks...you need to accept this. This! Schoen isn't QB shopping and Daboll didn't throw an iPad because of injuries. They see what some Giants fans can't. |
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Post by inthezone on Apr 19, 2024 6:18:56 GMT -5
Like I said we will have to disagree on this. Even when Jones did throw a bomb the receivers would have to slow down or come back for that pass causing very little YAC yards. I'm curious if you consider 20 yard passes as the deeper parts of the field which I am in this discussion. ONLY 20+ yard passes were included I see the 15 to 20 yard passes as being down field also and I don't recall seeing Jones make many of those throws but I have seen WRs running open when the plays are evaluated afterwards. Maybe you are right and your support for Jones will be warranted this year but I'm just not seeing him progressing at this point. |
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miggs
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Post by miggs on Apr 24, 2024 21:53:02 GMT -5
Daboll didn't want to see Jones get hurt so he went to short game.Jones still got hurt. Daboll did open game a little with DeVito. you honestly don’t have the ability to recognize your own contradictions. I do see that you don't know that Jones is a good QB. Therefore, you should limit your posts. But you can't restrain yourself. |
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Post by nobelichickin2025 on Apr 24, 2024 22:00:05 GMT -5
Rich Gannon believes the Giants offense was designed terribly which basically has hamstrung Daniel Jones. He describes the Giants offense as a one trick pony with Saquon. He believes the Giants need to let Daniel Jones loose in addition to giving him help. Why would you pay a QB $40 million and not allow him to change plays at the line? I believe anyone that still believes in Daniel Jones believes in God, aliens, Santa, the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy, flat earth, etc etc. Daniel Jones can not play well or stay healthy. Kind of a big deal. |
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