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Post by ThatGuyRich on Apr 28, 2024 9:36:33 GMT -5
Being better than last year is quite a low Bar to overcome. Probably better. QB - same (crap) RB - Worse WR - Better TE - My guess slightly better because we got nothing from Waller. Hopefully Theo develops fast. OL - How can we not be better DL - Burns and Thibs will be a much improved pass rush, DL beside Dex is nothing but hope. Looks damn scary to me LB - Same CB - Worse / Same S - Worse / Same Potential with our 2nd rd pick. Needs experience I'm counting Burns/Thibs as part of the DL. That's their role no matter what we list them as. OK that works, I was thinking 2 DL on either side of Dex. But even with 1 DL alongside Dex when we play nickel we seem to have a hole. Haven't strengthened the run defense. Burns is weak vs the run that's been his M.O.. Very good pass rusher. I think were going to have to go get a DL on the June 1st cuts or on the last cut of pre season. That could strengthen us. |
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 28, 2024 9:38:09 GMT -5
I hope you’re right about the Oline being better. I guess you’re banking on Runyon being a big answer along with the Raider they brought in. Here’s my question to you because something doesn’t add up. The Packers, who won with this Oline down the stretch, and even blew out Dallas and their D, chose to let him go and chose to allocate much more money to a lower priority position by bringing in the Giants’ McKinney. Essentially the ledger reads Runyon and 7m cap space for McKinney. If Runyon is a real good player, why would the Pack do this deal? McKinney wasn’t a pro bowler. I’m pretty shellshocked from Giant Oline moves and performance over the last 12 years so I question whether they are “definitely better.” First let's look at our OGs from last year. Glowinski, McKethan, Bredeson and Pugh. Runyan has been without a doubt better than all of them over the last 3 years. 7 sacks, 8 penalties and 3000+ snaps over three years.
Eluemenor I am much less sold on. Us passing on two really good OGs in this draft and the fact we paid him $7m a year makes me feel like our staff is sold on him. Having the Raiders OL coach here helps that. Some OL take longer to develop, which could be his case. The benefit of him is that I think he can be an improvement over Neal at RT and I think Neal as a RG will be a big improvement over the four we had last year.
Now to address your question. This happens every year. "Why would team x let him go". If no team ever had a good player walk then no one in free agency would ever be good. We know that's not the case. The Packers had 17 free agents this year and paying a RG just wasn't a priority. Yes they paid a lot for X but X (like it or not) is viewed as a top 5 Safety in the league, Runyan is a good starter. Furthermore they had Sean Rhyan that was worked into a lot of games last year (to see what he could do) and the Packers felt comfortable with him at just over $1m per year.
Overall the question is are we better than the end of last year and I think we are for sure. The end of last year we only knew we had Thomas and a hope for Neal at RT. Now at least we know what we have in Thomas, JMS, the same hope for Neal (at OG hopefully) and a solid addition in Runyan and a ?? in Eluemunor. Will we actually be better? No clue, but on paper it's without a doubt better.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 28, 2024 9:41:20 GMT -5
I'm counting Burns/Thibs as part of the DL. That's their role no matter what we list them as. There is a delineation between the front 7 and the actually dline but I get it. It would probably be better if you split it out bt DT, edges and linebacker. You would see our DTs are 1 guys and a bunch of Jags. Hopefully we can stop the runs up the middle but the edges seem locked up. I pretty sure the new DC has a plan. Yeah now doubt I agree with you. I was lazy lol. This is how I would grade it that way.
DT- Worse (Leo, Dex is hard to beat) Edge - Much better (Burns addition, plus we still have Ojulari) LB - Same (although I feel much better since we didn't know what Micah, Okereke would do and didn't have Simmons yet)
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 28, 2024 9:41:58 GMT -5
We are, if the o line has average health this season. I don’t think the defence will be better (lost more pieces, new system) but the offence can be much better if Jones can stay out of his own way, which feels like a low probability. It’s been so long since we had an average o line it’s hard to forecast how this offence will function if it’s a “middle of the pack” line. If we’re playing 3 of 5 backups (or worse) for a significant part of the season, we’re cooked. In fact we’ll be worse than last year. Dabs is gonna have to be a very different coach this year. I don’t know if he can. Our D, assuming decent health will not only be better....but significantly better. Burns is a complete game changer. Banks in his second year will be hugely better. I look for him to be a top 5-10 corner. Flott and Co. will be an upgrade on the other side. Don't discount another year of development with all our young guys. I look for our D to be outstanding this year. That is the side of the ball that I am most excited about. |
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Apr 28, 2024 9:50:20 GMT -5
I think the defense will be better with the addition of Burns and should be more competitive against good teams.
Wink's defense routinely got torched against good teams - less CBs on islands, and small mistakes leading to instant TDs with the new scheme.
Last year's offseason addition got more hype - Waller, Campbell...but I think this year's will be more valuable.
Offense should be better if they figure out the oline, WR room is much deeper than in years past. Hopefully the team can stay more healthy this year
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 28, 2024 9:56:37 GMT -5
o i'd say unknown for cb and safety who knows maybe those rooks give us the same production....... I really hope you're right but McKinney had the production of a top 5 S in the league. As of this moment replacing him with a rookie makes us worse.
Adoree going into last year was a quality vet CB that had given up only about 51% completion rate the previous two seasons. Bottom line was he was absolutely capable of starting at CB. We have no clue this year who the #2 is. I will say though that Banks is so good we could be the same as last year with a bunch of unknowns.
I do like our rookie picks though.
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 28, 2024 10:24:49 GMT -5
I hope you’re right about the Oline being better. I guess you’re banking on Runyon being a big answer along with the Raider they brought in. Here’s my question to you because something doesn’t add up. The Packers, who won with this Oline down the stretch, and even blew out Dallas and their D, chose to let him go and chose to allocate much more money to a lower priority position by bringing in the Giants’ McKinney. Essentially the ledger reads Runyon and 7m cap space for McKinney. If Runyon is a real good player, why would the Pack do this deal? McKinney wasn’t a pro bowler. I’m pretty shellshocked from Giant Oline moves and performance over the last 12 years so I question whether they are “definitely better.” First let's look at our OGs from last year. Glowinski, McKethan, Bredeson and Pugh. Runyan has been without a doubt better than all of them over the last 3 years. 7 sacks, 8 penalties and 3000+ snaps over three years.
Eluemenor I am much less sold on. Us passing on two really good OGs in this draft and the fact we paid him $7m a year makes me feel like our staff is sold on him. Having the Raiders OL coach here helps that. Some OL take longer to develop, which could be his case. The benefit of him is that I think he can be an improvement over Neal at RT and I think Neal as a RG will be a big improvement over the four we had last year.
Now to address your question. This happens every year. "Why would team x let him go". If no team ever had a good player walk then no one in free agency would ever be good. We know that's not the case. The Packers had 17 free agents this year and paying a RG just wasn't a priority. Yes they paid a lot for X but X (like it or not) is viewed as a top 5 Safety in the league, Runyan is a good starter. Furthermore they had Sean Rhyan that was worked into a lot of games last year (to see what he could do) and the Packers felt comfortable with him at just over $1m per year.
Overall the question is are we better than the end of last year and I think we are for sure. The end of last year we only knew we had Thomas and a hope for Neal at RT. Now at least we know what we have in Thomas, JMS, the same hope for Neal (at OG hopefully) and a solid addition in Runyan and a ?? in Eluemunor. Will we actually be better? No clue, but on paper it's without a doubt better.
I did love what I hear from Elem and not even going to try to remember how to spell his name or copy and paste yadi yadi yadi, but i think he will be fine and much better than what we put on the field the past so many years. And from the sound of it in his presser he's the type of guy you want and especially in a unit that acts as one, he will push everyone to be better and hold himself and them accountable..... |
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Post by myronguyton29 on Apr 28, 2024 10:29:30 GMT -5
I think the defense will be better with the addition of Burns and should be more competitive against good teams. Wink's defense routinely got torched against good teams - less CBs on islands, and small mistakes leading to instant TDs with the new scheme. Last year's offseason addition got more hype - Waller, Campbell...but I think this year's will be more valuable. Offense should be better if they figure out the oline, WR room is much deeper than in years past. Hopefully the team can stay more healthy this year yah and just like folks want to and like to grade the draft and some say last year we graded good and this year some don't think we graded well. I say screw all the damn grades and lets get them on the field and coach em up. I agree with some who said well we graded well last year and sucked and maybe we'll be better this year for those who think we graded low..... work with what you have and bring out the best in em.... |
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Post by McCherry on Apr 28, 2024 10:33:33 GMT -5
I think we clearly upgraded at several positions. OL, WR, DE. Those right there will make a huge difference. Singletary/Barkley are comparable and I expect the running game to be more effective. I don't think there's any question we're better on both sides of the ball. It's a question of how much better. I think we replaced hope with talent and actual expectations. I am worried about our DBs. Otherwise I think we are better. Yeah. There is alot of youth there, but overall, I wouldn't say less talent. |
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Post by SG88 on Apr 28, 2024 10:33:47 GMT -5
As of today, I feel like the Giants will be battling the Commanders for 3rd place.......again. I hope that they surprise me and actually contend. Highly unlikely IMO. Despite the battle for 3rd place, I think that the Giants will be slightly better than they were last year. The defense will be solid, but the offense will be underwhelming.
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Post by Morehead State on Apr 28, 2024 10:39:25 GMT -5
As of today, I feel like the Giants will be battling the Commanders for 3rd place.......again. I hope that they surprise me and actually contend. Highly unlikely IMO. Despite the battle for 3rd place, I think that the Giants will be slightly better than they were last year. The defense will be solid, but the offense will be underwhelming. Both the Eagles and the Cowboys will take a step back. The Eagles may have been the worst team in football by week 17. And the Cowboys have been a hot mess all offseason. DC is the team that scares me if they get a lot out of that QB. I think we'll see a 4 team race next year. |
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Post by Nite on Apr 28, 2024 10:49:20 GMT -5
Lets put it this way; If Jones plays up to his ceiling (20 TDs) and not turnover the ball, the D plays well holds the opposition to around 16 ppg and our RB group moves the chains and makes the occasional play then I would say yes, slightly. If not (average DJ, bad OL, average - bad D) then we are staring at last place and a top 5 pick next year. Also indicates that the FO does not know how to spot and evaluate talent, its not just Schoen..
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Post by SG88 on Apr 28, 2024 10:54:23 GMT -5
As of today, I feel like the Giants will be battling the Commanders for 3rd place.......again. I hope that they surprise me and actually contend. Highly unlikely IMO. Despite the battle for 3rd place, I think that the Giants will be slightly better than they were last year. The defense will be solid, but the offense will be underwhelming. Both the Eagles and the Cowboys will take a step back. The Eagles may have been the worst team in football by week 17. And the Cowboys have been a hot mess all offseason. DC is the team that scares me if they get a lot out of that QB. I think we'll see a 4 team race next year. Who are you and what have you done to MH? 😄 |
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 28, 2024 10:56:24 GMT -5
Both the Eagles and the Cowboys will take a step back. The Eagles may have been the worst team in football by week 17. And the Cowboys have been a hot mess all offseason. DC is the team that scares me if they get a lot out of that QB. I think we'll see a 4 team race next year. Who are you and what have you done to MH? 😄 It’s the off-season post draft. We never lose . . . nor does the team play |
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te88
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Post by te88 on Apr 28, 2024 11:10:41 GMT -5
Shane Bowen is a major improvement at DC. over Wink already? I think so. I have never been a fan of Wink. Irregardless of the unprofessional behaviour. So when he showed he is also an immature clown, I was all the more happy to see him go. |
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Post by myronguyton on Apr 28, 2024 11:13:28 GMT -5
Call me an optimistic homer, but this team is significantly better on paper than last season. The oline should be a lot better and we finally have an elite wr1. In a perfect world, the Giants would've been able to replace Jones, but the opportunity to upgrade without putting the team in a bad spot just wasn't there. And I don't think Jones is as bad as most people think. His collective performance last season was the worst of his career and an aberration in my opinion. I still think he is good enough to lead a strong supporting roster, and I'm hoping that's what we have.
Defensively, the addition of Burns alone makes us immediately better. McKinney was a big loss, but a better pass rush can negate the effect that his absence might have on the unit. Belton is a good player, and hopefully Nubin is as good as Nick Saban thinks he is. Mills offers some veteran depth. Thibodeaux and Banks are only going to get better. I think our lack of a clear cut cb#2 at this point is possibly offset with quality depth at the position. I expect this to be a top 10 defense so long as the offense can at least produce near the middle of the pack and limit turnovers.
The schedule is also significantly more favorable. Still a lot of unknowns, but I expect the Giants to win anywhere between 7 and 11 games this year. Hoping for more.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 28, 2024 11:18:30 GMT -5
I think so. I have never been a fan of Wink. Irregardless of the unprofessional behaviour. So when he showed he is also an immature clown, I was all the more happy to see him go. Well, imo was the only good thing last season. He blitz the hell out of opponents with practically nothing on defense and literally no help from the offense. Wink is old school and that doesn’t give his behavior a pass yet his behavior wasn’t any worse than the head coach imo |
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 28, 2024 11:20:14 GMT -5
Call me an optimistic homer, but this team is significantly better on paper than last season. The oline should be a lot better and we finally have an elite wr1. In a perfect world, the Giants would've been able to replace Jones, but the opportunity to upgrade without putting the team in a bad spot just wasn't there. And I don't think Jones is as bad as most people think. His collective performance last season was the worst of his career and an aberration in my opinion. I still think he is good enough to lead a strong supporting roster, and I'm hoping that's what we have. Defensively, the addition of Burns alone makes us immediately better. McKinney was a big loss, but a better pass rush can negate the effect that his absence might have on the unit. Belton is a good player, and hopefully Nubin is as good as Nick Saban thinks he is. Mills offers some veteran depth. Thibodeaux and Banks are only going to get better. I think our lack of a clear cut cb#2 at this point is possibly offset with quality depth at the position. I expect this to be a top 10 defense so long as the offense can at least produce near the middle of the pack and limit turnovers. The schedule is also significantly more favorable. Still a lot of unknowns, but I expect the Giants to win anywhere between 7 and 11 games this year. Hoping for more. That’s quite a win spread. |
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Post by DonnieYen on Apr 28, 2024 12:25:09 GMT -5
I can't say we are worse at RB. Sure Saquon was quite good, but Singletary ain't bad, and the rookie should be a nice compliment to him. The sum of the parts may very well be better. I also think our O Line will be significantly improved, which benefits the entire offense. I know there are elder statesman on here and I respect all your opinions but my dad is 69 years old gonna be 70 in November 5th I'll be 43 on June 5th! my dad has been a Giants fan since the 1950s he's a veteran football fan and In his honest opinion Saquon is way over rated, how many times wouldn't he run through guys because he is afraid of contact or he wouldn't be able to power his way through for a first down. Saquon is no Tiki Barber he is no Brandon Jacobs or Bradshaw. |
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Post by DonnieYen on Apr 28, 2024 12:33:21 GMT -5
Saquon is a pretty boy to afraid to play hard because he might get hurt.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 28, 2024 12:38:54 GMT -5
When was the last time we went into a new season when we weren’t allegedly better? Serious question. For me, I wasn’t at all surprised by the 2023 season because I never bought into the results of the 2022 season nor did most who weren’t Giants fans, but a lot of people here did think we would be better. So anyways, back to my original question…
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Post by DonnieYen on Apr 28, 2024 12:47:57 GMT -5
When was the last time we went into a new season when we weren’t allegedly better? Serious question. For me, I wasn’t at all surprised by the 2023 season because I never bought into the results of the 2022 season nor did most who weren’t Giants fans, but a lot of people here did think we would be better. So anyways, back to my original question… I'm a Homer I always believe! I'm like this with movies and TV too If I like a movie or TV Trailer I love the movie or TV show! |
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2024 13:17:52 GMT -5
Saquon is a pretty boy to afraid to play hard because he might get hurt. Saquon doesn’t play hard? Eh ok |
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Post by Kruunch on Apr 28, 2024 13:31:15 GMT -5
When was the last time we went into a new season when we weren’t allegedly better? Serious question. For me, I wasn’t at all surprised by the 2023 season because I never bought into the results of the 2022 season nor did most who weren’t Giants fans, but a lot of people here did think we would be better. So anyways, back to my original question… Every team feels good about themselves in April.. The hard reality and opposing players breaking facts off in you are not for a couple of months. When you gauge a team on paper you’ll always get a false reading. Too many moving parts with even more variables. Besides rookies who get a pass.. everyone on the team has to bring it up a notch. Outside of water and sunlight.. Nothing goes into the ground more than blood, sweat, and tears. Losing has become contagious around here. The only remedy for that is to win at all costs. |
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Apr 28, 2024 13:49:51 GMT -5
I can't say we are worse at RB. Sure Saquon was quite good, but Singletary ain't bad, and the rookie should be a nice compliment to him. The sum of the parts may very well be better. I also think our O Line will be significantly improved, which benefits the entire offense. I know there are elder statesman on here and I respect all your opinions but my dad is 69 years old gonna be 70 in November 5th I'll be 43 on June 5th! my dad has been a Giants fan since the 1950s he's a veteran football fan and In his honest opinion Saquon is way over rated, how many times wouldn't he run through guys because he is afraid of contact or he wouldn't be able to power his way through for a first down. Saquon is no Tiki Barber he is no Brandon Jacobs or Bradshaw. Overrated maybe, but Saquon never seemed like a RB who didn't like contact. I feel bad for him more than anything, he carried the ball way more than most RBs in the league behind a poor oline for years...major injures, took a beating, and kept going. Tiki used to fumble the ball every other time he got hit his first few years in the league. Bradshaw injured half his career. Once the Giants oline declined Jacobs was known as the Tiptoe Burgler, wasn't great before he got his speed up downhill. |
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Post by DonnieYen on Apr 28, 2024 13:50:23 GMT -5
Saquon is a pretty boy to afraid to play hard because he might get hurt. Saquon doesn’t play hard? Eh ok he's athletic for sure I think he is on Steroids he looks like a body builder but he is afraid of contact when he has to push his way through for a few extra yards or a first down and he is injury prone probably because of all the muscle |
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Post by DonnieYen on Apr 28, 2024 13:54:03 GMT -5
I know there are elder statesman on here and I respect all your opinions but my dad is 69 years old gonna be 70 in November 5th I'll be 43 on June 5th! my dad has been a Giants fan since the 1950s he's a veteran football fan and In his honest opinion Saquon is way over rated, how many times wouldn't he run through guys because he is afraid of contact or he wouldn't be able to power his way through for a first down. Saquon is no Tiki Barber he is no Brandon Jacobs or Bradshaw. Overrated maybe, but Saquon never seemed like a RB who didn't like contact. I feel bad for him more than anything, he carried the ball way more than most RBs in the league behind a poor oline for years...major injures, took a beating, and kept going. Tiki used to fumble the ball every other time he got hit his first few years in the league. Bradshaw injured half his career. Once the Giants oline declined Jacobs was known as the Tiptoe Burgler, wasn't great before he got his speed up downhill. Saquon fumbled quite a bit too. couldn't you use The offensive line excuse for Daniel Jones too? Daniel Jones is a Good Franchise QB but he had a bad offensive line and $hit Receivers. |
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Post by Jomo on Apr 28, 2024 14:08:08 GMT -5
I can't say we are worse at RB. Sure Saquon was quite good, but Singletary ain't bad, and the rookie should be a nice compliment to him. The sum of the parts may very well be better. I also think our O Line will be significantly improved, which benefits the entire offense. I think that SB's departure helps us a lot. Putting that salary cap hit to better use elevates the roster. I don't think one can just look at the talent moving in and out. Any time you can bring in an edge guy like the one we signed in FA and get several upgrades on the OL plus a (potential) stud WR with our #1 pick I have to feel like the talent has improved overall. The real unknow is how the coaching changes will play out for us. THAT could be the biggest change of all. |
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Post by giantbob71 on Apr 28, 2024 14:41:54 GMT -5
Last year's DLine had Leo, Robinson, Dex, and Thibs...this year's has Burns, Dex, and Thibs. I'll agree Burns is better than Leo...but can Dex play every down? Robinson played pretty well late in the year. No real 2nd DT...and zero depth.
DE/ER - much better
DT - much worse
ILB - same
secondary - worse. Rookies can't be counted on...Jackson is somewhat replaceable...X isn't, no chance safety play doesn't drop off.
OLine - Neal is still a starter. JMS is still a starter. Guard looks to have gotten better...but there's zero depth and 40% of the OLine is still a HUGE question mark.
OT - same
OG - better
C - same
WR - better - where does Slayton fit? Hyatt?
TE - worse. A checked out Waller is better than Bellinger.
RB - worse
QB - worse. Taylor is better than Lock. DJs injury clause is a stupid thing to gamble with.
This is a bad roster with absolutely no depth. Honestly, the only positions, with even decent depth, might be DE with Ojulari, but hes always hurt. Maybe WR?
Banks, JMS, McFadden, Neal, Hyatt, and Wandale all have to get better. A couple young corners and safeties have to step up.
It's a very top heavy roster that falls off a cliff in a hurry. Bottom line, the Giants have no chance at a serious playoff run in year 3 of a rebuild.
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Post by myronguyton on Apr 28, 2024 15:40:34 GMT -5
Overrated maybe, but Saquon never seemed like a RB who didn't like contact. I feel bad for him more than anything, he carried the ball way more than most RBs in the league behind a poor oline for years...major injures, took a beating, and kept going. Tiki used to fumble the ball every other time he got hit his first few years in the league. Bradshaw injured half his career. Once the Giants oline declined Jacobs was known as the Tiptoe Burgler, wasn't great before he got his speed up downhill. Saquon fumbled quite a bit too. couldn't you use The offensive line excuse for Daniel Jones too? Daniel Jones is a Good Franchise QB but he had a bad offensive line and $hit Receivers. Saquon has 6 fumbles in his entire career |
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