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Post by IrishMike on Apr 27, 2024 19:26:00 GMT -5
Beebe and Haynes were two terrific OG candidates and I see a ton of talk of them in all the threads about the draft. I was shocked we skipped on them in round 2 after the run on DTs and CBs. Then we skipped them both in round 3 as well and I was floored.
My only thought is that Schoen and Daboll must be absolutely sold on Neal being a good OG/OT this year. It's a risk to say the least. I hope it pays off.
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Post by vinnie on Apr 27, 2024 19:35:28 GMT -5
Agreed and to make it worse, dallas’ O line was finally starting to crumble (still All Pro compared to ours) and Schoen let Beebe fall right into their laps. Well done, hurt ourselves while helping a division rival.
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te88
Special Teams
Posts: 1,998
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Post by te88 on Apr 27, 2024 19:46:42 GMT -5
I just don’t think they wanted to go OL after all the investment in FA. Plus picks in other drafts. They couldn’t justify it to themselves.
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Post by Analyst on Apr 27, 2024 19:58:19 GMT -5
I just don’t think they wanted to go OL after all the investment in FA. Plus picks in other drafts. They couldn’t justify it to themselves. This team can never have too many OLmen worth something.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 27, 2024 20:17:56 GMT -5
Drafting a Guard that high would've been a baffling move considering our other needs.. Pay two Guards $7-$10M per year respectively then send one to the bench... What the hell are we doing?
And then who is our other CB or Safety? The Giants built a more complete roster doing things they way they did.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 27, 2024 20:32:13 GMT -5
I also thought they would have been excellent picks, but I'm guessing given our FA signings, our FO felt that was less of a need then CB, and I really can't argue that sentiment.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 28, 2024 5:29:25 GMT -5
Drafting a Guard that high would've been a baffling move considering our other needs.. Pay two Guards $7-$10M per year respectively then send one to the bench... What the hell are we doing? And then who is our other CB or Safety? The Giants built a more complete roster doing things they way they did. You’re the Giants. Worst Oline ever in your storied franchise. It’s the third round. You pass on the highly touted Guard for a CB that doesn’t make interceptions? That’s why they lose.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2024 5:46:34 GMT -5
Drafting a Guard that high would've been a baffling move considering our other needs.. Pay two Guards $7-$10M per year respectively then send one to the bench... What the hell are we doing? And then who is our other CB or Safety? The Giants built a more complete roster doing things they way they did. You’re the Giants. Worst Oline ever in your storied franchise. It’s the third round. You pass on the highly touted Guard for a CB that doesn’t make interceptions? That’s why they lose. Disagree. After our offseason moves, CB was a much bigger need than OL. Also, a lot of scouts that I have respect for are very high on Phillips and thought that he was a great pick in the 3rd. To focus only on college INT’s to criticize the pick isn’t totally fair IMO. In any event, it is way too early to be this definitive about anything in this draft.
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Post by Roswell on Apr 28, 2024 6:19:08 GMT -5
You’re the Giants. Worst Oline ever in your storied franchise. It’s the third round. You pass on the highly touted Guard for a CB that doesn’t make interceptions? That’s why they lose. Disagree. After our offseason moves, CB was a much bigger need than OL. Also, a lot of scouts that I have respect for are very high on Phillips and thought that he was a great pick in the 3rd. To focus only on college INT’s to criticize the pick isn’t totally fair IMO. In any event, it is way too early to be this definitive about anything in this draft. One Giant fan to another, I hope I’m wrong and you’re right.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2024 7:09:36 GMT -5
Disagree. After our offseason moves, CB was a much bigger need than OL. Also, a lot of scouts that I have respect for are very high on Phillips and thought that he was a great pick in the 3rd. To focus only on college INT’s to criticize the pick isn’t totally fair IMO. In any event, it is way too early to be this definitive about anything in this draft. One Giant fan to another, I hope I’m wrong and you’re right. My bigger issue is QB. If JJ, Penix or Nix becomes a star, Schoen is going to have a big problem. I applaud his conviction and the fact that he didn’t cave and draft a QB that he didn’t believe in, but he better be right….
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 28, 2024 7:26:31 GMT -5
Drafting a Guard that high would've been a baffling move considering our other needs.. Pay two Guards $7-$10M per year respectively then send one to the bench... What the hell are we doing? And then who is our other CB or Safety? The Giants built a more complete roster doing things they way they did. No one is talking about sending one to the bench but can you name the last time a Giants OL made it through the season without injuries?
I'm good with the pick, CB is a big need; but no way they make that pick if they don't have confidence the Neal will be a decent starter for them.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 28, 2024 7:29:50 GMT -5
One Giant fan to another, I hope I’m wrong and you’re right. My bigger issue is QB. If JJ, Penix or Nix becomes a star, Schoen is going to have a big problem. I applaud his conviction and the fact that he didn’t cave and draft a QB that he didn’t believe in, but he better be right…. I have zero concern about how JJ, Penix or Nix do. I don't think that factors into Schoens future at all.
JJ is going to a much better situation, taking over the 5th rated passing O, instead of the 31st. Jefferson is much better than Slayton lol.
Penix is going to sit and learn for two years, not something we would allow here. Nix will probably sit for a year also.
We need to score, we need to win. That's all that matters for Schoen/Daboll.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2024 8:10:18 GMT -5
My bigger issue is QB. If JJ, Penix or Nix becomes a star, Schoen is going to have a big problem. I applaud his conviction and the fact that he didn’t cave and draft a QB that he didn’t believe in, but he better be right…. I have zero concern about how JJ, Penix or Nix do. I don't think that factors into Schoens future at all.
JJ is going to a much better situation, taking over the 5th rated passing O, instead of the 31st. Jefferson is much better than Slayton lol.
Penix is going to sit and learn for two years, not something we would allow here. Nix will probably sit for a year also.
We need to score, we need to win. That's all that matters for Schoen/Daboll.
We disagree then. If Schoen passed on a franchise QB when we were in dire need of one, that would (and should) be a huge black mark against him.
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Post by Fletch842 on Apr 28, 2024 8:11:04 GMT -5
My bigger issue is QB. If JJ, Penix or Nix becomes a star, Schoen is going to have a big problem. I applaud his conviction and the fact that he didn’t cave and draft a QB that he didn’t believe in, but he better be right…. I have zero concern about how JJ, Penix or Nix do. I don't think that factors into Schoens future at all.
JJ is going to a much better situation, taking over the 5th rated passing O, instead of the 31st. Jefferson is much better than Slayton lol.
Penix is going to sit and learn for two years, not something we would allow here. Nix will probably sit for a year also.
We need to score, we need to win. That's all that matters for Schoen/Daboll.
Who's starting for Denver, Wilson? I see Nix starting immediately. There is a chance that Sammy D starts for Vikes this year, not out of the question, and as you said, baring injury to Cousins, he's starting for at least the next 2 years.
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Post by Analyst on Apr 28, 2024 8:13:22 GMT -5
One Giant fan to another, I hope I’m wrong and you’re right. My bigger issue is QB. If JJ, Penix or Nix becomes a star, Schoen is going to have a big problem. I applaud his conviction and the fact that he didn’t cave and draft a QB that he didn’t believe in, but he better be right…. One thing about this no one is really talking about is, they obviously were trying to move up to get Maye. They offered a 1st rounder next year to do so. What does this tell you about how they feel about Daniel Jones? They want to move on. Now we are stuck. Jones knows this too. Tough situation they put us in.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2024 8:17:55 GMT -5
My bigger issue is QB. If JJ, Penix or Nix becomes a star, Schoen is going to have a big problem. I applaud his conviction and the fact that he didn’t cave and draft a QB that he didn’t believe in, but he better be right…. One thing about this no one is really talking about is, they obviously were trying to move up to get Maye. They offered a 1st rounder next year to do so. What does this tell you about how they feel about Daniel Jones? They want to move on. Now we are stuck. Jones knows this too. Tough situation they put us in. So should they have not tried to move up for a player they liked at a position of need? Say what you will about Jones’ play on the field, but I don’t think that he is the type of kid that the team’s efforts to move up for a QB will affect at all. If anything, it will drive him to prove that he is worth the contract that he was given.
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Post by Jomo on Apr 28, 2024 8:27:54 GMT -5
Thinking that our offensive line was better than it was, cost our last twp general managers their jobs.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 28, 2024 8:33:01 GMT -5
they only had 6 picks.
Guaranteed there would be pissing and moaning no matter who they drafted. Just by different posters with different opnions.
See how these guys pan out.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2024 8:39:28 GMT -5
Thinking that our offensive line was better than it was, cost our last twp general managers their jobs. And it may cost this GM his job as well, but at some point he has to rely on his evaluations of the guys that he has brought in rather than keep drafting over those guys when we have tons of other needs on this team.
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 28, 2024 8:43:06 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more. It's been 12+ years since our OL has been respectable. We had a chance to add the presumed final piece to the puzzle and we passed. We walked away from a draft stocked with talent empty handed, and we have the same hole at IOL as a result. The same can be said for the DL, but that's a different conversation. I like what we did to address the OL in FA, and I'm optimistic this new OL coach can help turn things around, but our chances would've been better with Haynes or Beebe on the roster. We would've had solid starting talent across the board, proper depth to back them up, and competition at every position. Sounds too good to be true. Starters: Thomas - Beebe/Haynes - JMS - Runyan - Eluemunor
Backups: EZ - Neal - Stinnie - McKethan That's a solid group right there. Definitely not bottom of the barrel and it would've gone a long way in helping us build an identity on offense. Something else we've lacked for what seems like 12+ years.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 28, 2024 8:46:47 GMT -5
Thinking that our offensive line was better than it was, cost our last twp general managers their jobs. And it may cost this GM his job as well, but at some point he has to rely on his evaluations of the guys that he has brought in rather than keep drafting over those guys when we have tons of other needs on this team. I think what cost the GMs thier jobs was a foolish owner who insisted on keeping QBs longer than they usefulness. You have to fail quick on qbs these days. Joe's job might on the line for not getting the oline fixed when the problem is the QB. He tried for 2 years and multiple investments and with the previous GM's investments to. Sooner or later they have to realize the QB is the problem.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2024 8:49:51 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more. It's been 12+ years since our OL has been respectable. We had a chance to add the presumed final piece to the puzzle and we passed. We walked away from a draft stocked with talent empty handed, and we have the same hole at IOL as a result. The same can be said for the DL, but that's a different conversation. I like what we did to address the OL in FA, and I'm optimistic this new OL coach can help turn things around, but our chances would've been better with Haynes or Beebe on the roster. We would've had solid starting talent across the board, proper depth to back them up, and competition at every position. Sounds too good to be true. Starters: Thomas - Beebe/Haynes - JMS - Runyan - Eluemunor
Backups: EZ - Neal - Stinnie - McKethan That's a solid group right there. Definitely not bottom of the barrel and it would've gone a long way in helping us build an identity on offense. Something else we've lacked for what seems like 12+ years.
So the plan would have been to draft an IOL in the 3rd and to start him over a player that Schoen picked #7 overall? Seriously? No offense, but that’s a ridiculous use of resources. Schoen drafted a guard in the 3rd in 2022. We’re throwing that guy out too? But this next third-rounder will be the “final piece to the puzzle”?
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Post by Analyst on Apr 28, 2024 8:53:12 GMT -5
One thing about this no one is really talking about is, they obviously were trying to move up to get Maye. They offered a 1st rounder next year to do so. What does this tell you about how they feel about Daniel Jones? They want to move on. Now we are stuck. Jones knows this too. Tough situation they put us in. So should they have not tried to move up for a player they liked at a position of need? Say what you will about Jones’ play on the field, but I don’t think that he is the type of kid that the team’s efforts to move up for a QB will affect at all. If anything, it will drive him to prove that he is worth the contract that he was given. Not at all. If they think Maye was the guy, they should have offered MORE than just a 1st next year to get it done. If that is their Knight in Shining Armor, go get him. It will pay off if they are correct. As for Jones, you could be right. Maybe. At some point though, even the most laid back southern professional will start getting sick of it. Maybe not on the outside, but on the inside. I never once though said anything negative about Daniel Jones the person. Seems like a good guy.
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Post by piddy283 on Apr 28, 2024 9:11:52 GMT -5
Couldn't agree more. It's been 12+ years since our OL has been respectable. We had a chance to add the presumed final piece to the puzzle and we passed. We walked away from a draft stocked with talent empty handed, and we have the same hole at IOL as a result. The same can be said for the DL, but that's a different conversation. I like what we did to address the OL in FA, and I'm optimistic this new OL coach can help turn things around, but our chances would've been better with Haynes or Beebe on the roster. We would've had solid starting talent across the board, proper depth to back them up, and competition at every position. Sounds too good to be true. Starters: Thomas - Beebe/Haynes - JMS - Runyan - Eluemunor
Backups: EZ - Neal - Stinnie - McKethan That's a solid group right there. Definitely not bottom of the barrel and it would've gone a long way in helping us build an identity on offense. Something else we've lacked for what seems like 12+ years.
So the plan would have been to draft an IOL in the 3rd and to start him over a player that Schoen picked #7 overall? Seriously? No offense, but that’s a ridiculous use of resources. Schoen drafted a guard in the 3rd in 2022. We’re throwing that guy out too? But this next third-rounder will be the “final piece to the puzzle”?
At OG, yes. I think Eluemunor is going to beat out Neal for the RT position, and I think either of those two would've beat out Neal for the starting OG position.
As hopeful as I may be when it comes to my beloved GMen, expecting anything from Neal, EZ, and McKethan at this point is a risk. Nobody is a sure thing, so Beebe and Haynes could absolutely bust, but these three have shown next to nothing their first two seasons. While it may be a ridiculous use of resources short term, I'm just ready to have a proper OL.
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Post by TEM on Apr 28, 2024 9:14:31 GMT -5
We were not taking O-line or EDGE with the money we spent in FA. IMO: They were off the table before the draft. IMO great moves in FA on both groups.
Not getting a whole lot done with only 6 picks. A DT was a maybe for me. But that was only if we moved down and gained a few picks.
There are more concerns about this draft than an OG we didn't take for me.
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 28, 2024 9:31:19 GMT -5
We have spent a LOT of resources on the OL in the past several years, including 2 first rounders. And a lot of FA before the draft this year.
A lot of the issues with our OL have been due to injury. I am one of the biggest complainers about our OL over the past decade, but this team has too many other needs to keep throwing more resources at one group.
I dont know if the picks they made were the best, and I was hoping for some LB help, but I'm not disappointed they didnt draft OL this year.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 28, 2024 9:31:51 GMT -5
So the plan would have been to draft an IOL in the 3rd and to start him over a player that Schoen picked #7 overall? Seriously? No offense, but that’s a ridiculous use of resources. Schoen drafted a guard in the 3rd in 2022. We’re throwing that guy out too? But this next third-rounder will be the “final piece to the puzzle”?
At OG, yes. I think Eluemunor is going to beat out Neal for the RT position, and I think either of those two would've beat out Neal for the starting OG position.
As hopeful as I may be when it comes to my beloved GMen, expecting anything from Neal, EZ, and McKethan at this point is a risk. Nobody is a sure thing, so Beebe and Haynes could absolutely bust, but these three have shown next to nothing their first two seasons. While it may be a ridiculous use of resources short term, I'm just ready to have a proper OL.
I usually like to give drafts picks 3 years to solidify thier role. You usually see the 3rd year as the year draft picks breakout. This year we'll see what Schoens 2022 draft class really is. I am expecting a lot from KT,Neal,Wandale, Flott and Ezedu. Micah McFadden already seems to be an important role player and Beavers was impressing before his injury. Is he still on the team? Bellinger seems to have a role on the team also.
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Post by Analyst on Apr 28, 2024 9:47:31 GMT -5
We were not taking O-line or EDGE with the money we spent in FA. IMO: They were off the table before the draft. IMO great moves in FA on both groups. Not getting a whole lot done with only 6 picks. A DT was a maybe for me. But that was only if we moved down and gained a few picks. There are more concerns about this draft than an OG we didn't take for me. I get the idea, but I feel like that's how you remain a losing franchise. What pass up a top OL prospect in hopes Runyan save the day for the interior? Not saying we did, but in theory. You don't draft that way. Runyan and Eluemunor are short term pieces. If you see a stud OLman, you take him. Eluemunor will wind up our RT IMO, and then who are the guards? What if Runyan gets hurt? Can't draft that way IMO.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 28, 2024 9:48:40 GMT -5
I have zero concern about how JJ, Penix or Nix do. I don't think that factors into Schoens future at all.
JJ is going to a much better situation, taking over the 5th rated passing O, instead of the 31st. Jefferson is much better than Slayton lol.
Penix is going to sit and learn for two years, not something we would allow here. Nix will probably sit for a year also.
We need to score, we need to win. That's all that matters for Schoen/Daboll.
We disagree then. If Schoen passed on a franchise QB when we were in dire need of one, that would (and should) be a huge black mark against him. That's because you're operating under the assumption we are in dire need of a QB. Let's look at it this way.
Situation A) The Giants O does great, lights up the scoreboard and wins a bunch of games. Does it matter how the other QBs did? No. Schoen/Daboll safe.
Situation B) The Giants O stinks, can't score, we lose a bunch of games. Does it matter how those other QBs did? No. Schoen/Daboll are in trouble.
I guess my point is their fate is in their hands and the other QBs performance can't hurt or help them. We do good it won't matter, we do bad it won't matter.
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 28, 2024 9:50:46 GMT -5
We were not taking O-line or EDGE with the money we spent in FA. IMO: They were off the table before the draft. IMO great moves in FA on both groups. Not getting a whole lot done with only 6 picks. A DT was a maybe for me. But that was only if we moved down and gained a few picks. There are more concerns about this draft than an OG we didn't take for me. I get the idea, but I feel like that's how you remain a losing franchise. What pass up a top OL prospect in hopes Runyan save the day for the interior? Not saying we did, but in theory. You don't draft that way. Runyan and Eluemunor are short term pieces. If you see a stud OLman, you take him. Eluemunor will wind up our RT IMO, and then who are the guards? What if Runyan gets hurt? Can't draft that way IMO. I think free agency can influence your draft but mostly in the first round. We signed Runyan and Eluemunor so it pretty much took Alt off the board. In round 2 or 3 though I don't think that matters. You take the player you need.
No matter what though they must be sold on Neal otherwise no way they pass on those guys.
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