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Post by BigBlueRules on Jun 21, 2018 12:29:12 GMT -5
as a long time Giants fan, I don't consider Kurt a true Giant mainly because of his comments against Eli and the Giants. he recently said Eli was a "borderline" HOF candidate. Elis contributions in and to the NFL heavily outweigh Kurts, including super bowl wins. his bitterness towards this organization should disqualify him as ever being here.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 21, 2018 12:50:35 GMT -5
as a long time Giants fan, I don't consider Kurt a true Giant mainly because of his comments against Eli and the Giants. he recently said Eli was a "borderline" HOF candidate. Elis contributions in and to the NFL heavily outweigh Kurts, including super bowl wins. his bitterness towards this organization should disqualify him as ever being here.
Kurt's career is what it is. If he harbors ill feelings towards the Giants, that's his business. Does anyone know what the Giants told Kurt before he agreed to sign with us?
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Post by Bigjeep on Jun 21, 2018 15:08:18 GMT -5
Literally, yes. But then again in hindsight I really don't think of Larry Czonka being a NYG, Joe Namath a Ram, Johnny Unitas a Charger, etc. YUP! popcorn
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Post by Zimonami on Jun 21, 2018 15:14:04 GMT -5
Literally, yes. But then again in hindsight I really don't think of Larry Czonka being a NYG, Joe Namath a Ram, Johnny Unitas a Charger, etc. YUP! The unkindest cut of all? Bavaro in Eagle green.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 15:48:03 GMT -5
YUP! The unkindest cut of all? Bavaro in Eagle green. It was bad but at least he partook in the exodus to the Browns to buffer the blow.
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Post by Jomo on Jun 21, 2018 16:55:50 GMT -5
He is an odd guy, not my favorite Giant...……..does not make my top 5,000 list.
His story is an interesting one and he had a few great years in the league...……...none of them here.
When I think of him, I see a Rams helmet, not Giants and not Cardinals.
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Post by GameTime on Jun 21, 2018 17:16:47 GMT -5
When I think of him, I see a Rams helmet, not Giants and not Cardinals. exactly.... besides they never would have tailored the offense for him anyway....
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ocgiant
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Post by ocgiant on Jun 21, 2018 18:10:37 GMT -5
Kurt certainly was a Giant, with the investment in Manning that decision was made and nothing he could have done about.
As for Phil and Kurt both QBs had good solid football careers... now sport commentators... staying around the game... all good for them - we should be so lucky.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jun 21, 2018 22:59:21 GMT -5
Kurt had a significant impact on Tom Coughlin's approach to his players. He was a Giant, although briefly, the impact was great.
I never got the feeling that Coughlin/Hufnagel spent any time analyzing Warner's game. It seemed like they developed their system and simply threw Kurt into it regardless if it was best suited to his skill set.
What Kurt did helped the locker room and team culture, not the X's and O's. www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/02/giants_tom_coughlin_used_kurt.htmlFrom 2012 article. I bring this article up every time people roast Tiki about his critique of TC..
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Post by TCHOF on Jun 22, 2018 4:40:04 GMT -5
I never got the feeling that Coughlin/Hufnagel spent any time analyzing Warner's game. It seemed like they developed their system and simply threw Kurt into it regardless if it was best suited to his skill set.
What Kurt did helped the locker room and team culture, not the X's and O's. www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/02/giants_tom_coughlin_used_kurt.htmlFrom 2012 article. I bring this article up every time people roast Tiki about his critique of TC.. Warner tried to work it through with Coughlin and it apparently worked. Tiki anonymously reported Coughlin to the NFL and leaked to the media.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jun 22, 2018 8:29:00 GMT -5
I never got the feeling that Coughlin/Hufnagel spent any time analyzing Warner's game. It seemed like they developed their system and simply threw Kurt into it regardless if it was best suited to his skill set.
What Kurt did helped the locker room and team culture, not the X's and O's. www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2012/02/giants_tom_coughlin_used_kurt.htmlFrom 2012 article. I bring this article up every time people roast Tiki about his critique of TC.. Wow. Thanks for that. I knew nothing about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 9:02:02 GMT -5
Of course he was. How silly.
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Post by Dave_NYG on Jun 22, 2018 9:50:18 GMT -5
NYG was a pit stop for Kurt. Is what it is. Some things don’t need to be generalized
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Post by Blue Hulk on Jun 23, 2018 19:43:20 GMT -5
Tiki anonymously reported Coughlin to the NFL and leaked to the media. That is a strong accusation. Do you have proof? I'll settle for a link
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Post by TCHOF on Jun 23, 2018 20:48:58 GMT -5
Tiki anonymously reported Coughlin to the NFL and leaked to the media. That is a strong accusation. Do you have proof? I'll settle for a link As I have posted numerous times, Chris Carlin stated on the air that it was well known among the Giants that Tiki was the one who reported the team and was the source of the negative leaks about TC. Believe it if you wish ... or not
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Post by snyder55 on Jun 24, 2018 9:56:55 GMT -5
as a long time Giants fan, I don't consider Kurt a true Giant mainly because of his comments against Eli and the Giants. he recently said Eli was a "borderline" HOF candidate. Elis contributions in and to the NFL heavily outweigh Kurts, including super bowl wins. his bitterness towards this organization should disqualify him as ever being here.
Kurt's career is what it is. If he harbors ill feelings towards the Giants, that's his business. Does anyone know what the Giants told Kurt before he agreed to sign with us?
it would make sense to believe that Warner was told by the Giants that he was being brought in to hold down the fort until Eli was ready to take over as #1 but things went so bad that Eli was thrown right into the mix before he was ready and the rest is history......
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Post by ashleymarie on Jun 24, 2018 11:08:07 GMT -5
Yes.
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Post by trentongiantsfan83 on Jun 24, 2018 16:12:01 GMT -5
Yes. He was a Giant but he was a stop gap QB.
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 24, 2018 18:31:55 GMT -5
as a long time Giants fan, I don't consider Kurt a true Giant mainly because of his comments against Eli and the Giants. he recently said Eli was a "borderline" HOF candidate. Elis contributions in and to the NFL heavily outweigh Kurts, including super bowl wins. his bitterness towards this organization should disqualify him as ever being here.
Kurt's career is what it is. If he harbors ill feelings towards the Giants, that's his business. Does anyone know what the Giants told Kurt before he agreed to sign with us?
Well, I obviously wasn't in the room, but...he had to know that Collins said he didn't want to babysit Eli and we know he signed what was basically a 1 year deal with the Giants, with a voidable 2nd year.
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Post by TCHOF on Jun 24, 2018 18:43:19 GMT -5
I always felt that Kurt Warner got the quick hook from being the starting QB to the bench in favor of a totally unprepared Eli Manning, and Kurt handled the whole mess with class... That's what he signed up for ....
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Jun 24, 2018 19:01:56 GMT -5
Or Jacobs as a 49er, ugh! I bet he hated being a 9er himself. He was angry when he left, but ended up despising Harbaugh. Today appreciates his Giants career and tells anyone who will listen.
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Jun 24, 2018 19:05:33 GMT -5
I really don't blame him for being bitter. He still had a lot of gas in his tank as a QB & the Giants kicked him to the curb while the team still had a winning record. who's to say if they don't keep Kirk as the starter all yr, that they don't make the playoffs that yr. Giants were 5-4 under him & went 1-6 with Eli. Led Az to back to back div title in 08'-09' & should have won that SB vs Pitt but his 99yd pick 6 at the half was pretty much the deciding play in why they lost. In his 12 yrs in the NFL, Kurt only played 4 seasons (99-01-08-09) where he played 15-16 games but his record in those 4 seasons was 46-17, he was pretty injury prone during his career & it kinda reminds me of Phil Simms career. Phil missed a ton of games in his career due to injuries as well & yet still won 95 games. in 14 seasons , Phil only played at least 14+ games in 7 of them but his record in those 7 seasons was 75-33. Kurt & Phil had similar numbers career wise & with Kurt making it to the HOF, I really don't see why Phil isn't in either. Kurt Warner stats: 67-49 32,344yds 209 TDs 128 Ints 1 SB title, 3 SB app & 9-4 playoff record Phil Simms stats: 95--64 33,462yds 199 TDs 157 Ints 2 SB titles 6-4 playoff record Granted , Warner was a 2x league MVP, led 2 teams to the SB including once when he was 37, hmmmmm? I think if Phil doesn't get hurt the '90 season, and he finishes off with that SB win, he's in the HOF. He also would have been a strong candidate for MVP that year. I'll always appreciate how Hoss helped us win it all... he did a great job filling in, but I see us winning that SB a lot easier if Phil is in there. There's also perception. Phil is a number one pick and we didn't have a lot of success his first 5 years. Warner is the undrafted grocery boy who takes the NFL by storm when he comes in. Unfortunate. I have always been a big Eli fan. If Accorsi isn't sold on getting Eli, Kurt probably stays and who knows what we do with him. I appreciate that he didn't throw a fit when Eli was drafted. He was surely looking forward to being a Giant, and then Eli is drafted and the picture changes. I completely agree about Phil and the '90 run. That being said, I will always appreciate Hoss's ability to grip the football while Bruce Smith tackled him in the end zone by the forearm-while the ball hung out there. Giving up 7 there may have been too much.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jun 25, 2018 9:00:41 GMT -5
Statistically and by literal nature, yes he was. Outside of the Giants players, Kurt was an immediate favorite that grew on me during that infamous 1999 season. The rams offense as a whole was just stunning to watch at that time.
But I've argued with fellow Giants fans of how I felt he was an immediate bridge-gap for the QB issue until our coaching regime felt it was time for Eli to take over. For that not to happen Kurt would have had to play lights out. I just never felt he was truly a New York Giant, and felt he himself never wanted to associate himself as a Giant after the pettiness that overcame him when being benched for Eli.
Kurt Warner: 10 games, 5-4 record, 62.8%, 2,054 yds, 6TD, 4 INT, 86.5 Rate.
What are you feelings on Kurt as a NYG?
"Once a Giant, always a Giant" doesn't apply here for me personally.
Kurt is the only one to decide that I think he will retire as a ram little less of a chance a cardinal,but the Giants they needed each other and both new it was gonna be a short stay,but he was a great teammate and a good soldier class act,but no and this isn't a knock he doesn't come back and do appearances and stuff like that ,think he knows where his football home is.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jun 25, 2018 9:08:03 GMT -5
I really don't blame him for being bitter. He still had a lot of gas in his tank as a QB & the Giants kicked him to the curb while the team still had a winning record. who's to say if they don't keep Kirk as the starter all yr, that they don't make the playoffs that yr. Giants were 5-4 under him & went 1-6 with Eli. Led Az to back to back div title in 08'-09' & should have won that SB vs Pitt but his 99yd pick 6 at the half was pretty much the deciding play in why they lost. In his 12 yrs in the NFL, Kurt only played 4 seasons (99-01-08-09) where he played 15-16 games but his record in those 4 seasons was 46-17, he was pretty injury prone during his career & it kinda reminds me of Phil Simms career. Phil missed a ton of games in his career due to injuries as well & yet still won 95 games. in 14 seasons , Phil only played at least 14+ games in 7 of them but his record in those 7 seasons was 75-33. Kurt & Phil had similar numbers career wise & with Kurt making it to the HOF, I really don't see why Phil isn't in either. Kurt Warner stats: 67-49 32,344yds 209 TDs 128 Ints 1 SB title, 3 SB app & 9-4 playoff record Phil Simms stats: 95--64 33,462yds 199 TDs 157 Ints 2 SB titles 6-4 playoff record Granted , Warner was a 2x league MVP, led 2 teams to the SB including once when he was 37, hmmmmm? Considering the fact that Eli won us two Super Bowls and Warner won us none...I'm perfectly comfortable with how the Giants pushed out the old man for the young buck. Warner making the HOF is one of the most-controversial decisions in recent memory in Canton. There are a LOT of people out there that question his credentials for such an honor. Following is a list of NFL quarterbacks with more career passing yards than Kurt Warner: Peyton Manning Brett Favre Drew Brees Tom Brady Dan Marino Eli Manning John Elway Ben Roethlisberger Philip Rivers Warren Moon Fran Tarkenton Carson Palmer Vinny Testaverde Drew Bledsoe Dan Fouts Matt Ryan Kerry Collins Joe Montana Johnny Unitas Aaron Rodgers Dave Krieg Boomer Esiason Donovan McNabb Matt Hasselbeck Joe Flacco Jim Kelly Jay Cutler Jim Everett Matthew Stafford Jim Hart Steve DeBerg Tony Romo John Hadl Phil Simms Steve Young Troy Aikman Ken Anderson As for Warner winning a Super Bowl at 37...heck, Peyton Manning won one at 39. Of course, Troy Aikman was out of the league by 34. Some guys can play at a very high level for a long time. Others hit a wall at a certain age. It happens. good post as far Aikmen goes think the concussions did him in,I remember the end for him watching him throw 3 picks against a bad giants team,thats when I knew the cowboys run was over,and he was gone shortly after that,think he made the right decision he had taken some really big hits at the end of his career,annias williams almost decapated him.
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Post by Miked1958 on Jun 25, 2018 11:51:17 GMT -5
Was Brandon Marshall a Giant? Sure, just not a productive one. You can go down a boatload of names that were Giants but under performed with high expectations or just average players that were plain bad. That said Warner didn't get a fair shake here. He deserved better. But that's the business of football. The FO felt it was time to make the switch to Eli. Had they stayed with Warner a few years and let Ei learn behind him who knows what might of happened? Maybe Warner wins a ring here, maybe the team is just okay but not a SB contender and that would of set Eli back in his development and maybe they don't make the SB in 07 to make history vs NE?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 17:39:37 GMT -5
Not really he played 7 games, and I can tell you I really don't remember much if anything about any of them. Not that that's his fault, the Giants were 4-3 and in the last wildcard spot at the time he was benched, he should have been allowed to play at least until the team was eliminated from playoff contention. Quite clearly benching a future HOF'er for a guy who completed about 20 % of his passes and had something like a 2/10 TD/INT ratio over the next 4 or 5 games was not the right move.
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Post by Parademon1 on Jun 25, 2018 19:49:12 GMT -5
Giants were 5-4 when they benched him for Eli. Promptly lost the next 6 games to blow the season.
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Post by TCHOF on Jun 25, 2018 20:30:54 GMT -5
Giants were 5-4 when they benched him for Eli. Promptly lost the next 6 games to blow the season. The team was going nowhere and Warner was not playing well
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Post by Delicreep on Jun 25, 2018 20:51:56 GMT -5
Giants were 5-4 when they benched him for Eli. Promptly lost the next 6 games to blow the season. Warner's last 4 games:
23/34 for 270 1 TD, 1 INT 3 fumbles, 1 lost with 6 sacks L 13/21 for 144 0 TD, 0 INT 3 fumbles 0 lost with 5 sacks W 18/36 for 195 1 TD 2 INT 2 fumbles 2 lost with 7 sacks L 19/30 for 193 1 TD 0 INT 0 fumbles 0 lost with 6 sacks L
With the #1 pick on the bench, a pick you gave up a kings ransom for, it is very hard for me to look a those stats and a 3 and 1 record in the last 4 games and not put the rookie in.
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Post by Parademon1 on Jun 25, 2018 20:55:05 GMT -5
Any QB would have bad numbers getting sacked 24x in 4 games. OL played a role in those stats, don't ya think?
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