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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 13:29:05 GMT -5
Probably not a difficult question to answer. It's gotta be pass rush. Teams have to get to Eli ASAP or it's over. Dropping 7 or 8 guys in coverage will no longer work if the pass protection is improved. DC will be hesitant now to keep the same look since Mac is no longer HC.
I think teams will go right after Flowers and the interior line. This is the only weakness on offense at the moment. If they can't get to Eli then the offense will be deadly.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 13:46:43 GMT -5
Probably not a difficult question to answer. It's gotta be pass rush. Teams have to get to Eli ASAP or it's over. Dropping 7 or 8 guys in coverage will no longer work if the pass protection is improved. DC will be hesitant now to keep the same look since Mac is no longer HC. I think teams will go right after Flowers and the interior line. This is the only weakness on offense at the moment. If they can't get to Eli then the offense will be deadly. The beauty of it from a DCs perspective is you don’t really have to “go after” Flowers. You can probably take any NFL DL man and match him up on Flowers and you stand a good chance of the match up being won. Just one more place you don’t need to waste resources. Now you can devote 10 other players to messing with the rest of the O. The focus will be Barkley and Beckham (rightfully). Much like Belichick in 2011 they will sell out to stop those two players and force Eli and the rest to threaten them. The super weapon of this O is Engram. The Giants have had 2 great weapons at several points in Eli’s career but never 3. |
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Jul 31, 2018 14:08:50 GMT -5
Probably not a difficult question to answer. It's gotta be pass rush. Teams have to get to Eli ASAP or it's over. Dropping 7 or 8 guys in coverage will no longer work if the pass protection is improved. DC will be hesitant now to keep the same look since Mac is no longer HC. I think teams will go right after Flowers and the interior line. This is the only weakness on offense at the moment. If they can't get to Eli then the offense will be deadly. While I agree with you that is hoping Eli will be able to perform at a high level. I personally think if given time he can, but we will have to see. How many years now have we been putting so much weight on Flowers shoulders for this team's outcome? Too friggin many. Hell, even his name is weak. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 31, 2018 14:16:01 GMT -5
I'm curious to see how the line holds up against a regular 4 man front because so far as Bettcher has been sending the house every time so far.
This will go a long way in how teams defend us.
If they can at the very least give Eli functional time in the pocket against a 4 man rush this offense will be deadly.
If teams have to manufacture pressure against us there will be a lot of big plays.
If teams decide to gameplan against Beckham and Barkley Engram,Sheppard and even Ellison will eat them alive.
It all comes down to what our O line shows the league what it can and can't do
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Jul 31, 2018 14:33:39 GMT -5
Well the one thing we have not had is a HR hitting RB. No matter what, the defense has to account for barkley. Now if they try to outright
bring the house then it subjects the defense to allowing barkley to leak out and catch a pass. That would not be good to have to face this guy with open field conditions. Im sure Shurmer would love to see it. Heck I would love to screen teams to death too because of the pressure. Barkley definitely changes things.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 31, 2018 14:53:46 GMT -5
Well the one thing we have not had is a HR hitting RB. No matter what, the defense has to account for barkley. Now if they try to outright bring the house then it subjects the defense to allowing barkley to leak out and catch a pass. That would not be good to have to face this guy with open field conditions. Im sure Shurmer would love to see it. Heck I would love to screen teams to death too because of the pressure. Barkley definitely changes things.
If what we are seeing from camp is any indication, a linebacker cannot cover this kid.
Interesting to think of Barkley out of the backfield along with Odell, who has been seen lining up a lot in the slot. Then there's Shepard and Engram to deal with as well, not to mention Ellison.
Our offense should be day and night compared to last year.
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Post by ocgiant on Jul 31, 2018 14:56:58 GMT -5
I have no confidence in Flowers... trusting we can find a lineman that is cut by another team... sounds bad I know but not sure there are any other options at this point.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 31, 2018 14:59:29 GMT -5
Probably not a difficult question to answer. It's gotta be pass rush. Teams have to get to Eli ASAP or it's over. Dropping 7 or 8 guys in coverage will no longer work if the pass protection is improved. DC will be hesitant now to keep the same look since Mac is no longer HC. I think teams will go right after Flowers and the interior line. This is the only weakness on offense at the moment. If they can't get to Eli then the offense will be deadly. You nailed it. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush.
Disrupt Eli and he'll make mistakes.
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goldenratio
Special Teams
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Post by goldenratio on Jul 31, 2018 15:02:29 GMT -5
Probably not a difficult question to answer. It's gotta be pass rush. Teams have to get to Eli ASAP or it's over. Dropping 7 or 8 guys in coverage will no longer work if the pass protection is improved. DC will be hesitant now to keep the same look since Mac is no longer HC. I think teams will go right after Flowers and the interior line. This is the only weakness on offense at the moment. If they can't get to Eli then the offense will be deadly. You nailed it. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush.
Disrupt Eli and he'll make mistakes.
disrupt any Qb and he will make mistakes^^^ |
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 31, 2018 15:07:17 GMT -5
You nailed it. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush.
Disrupt Eli and he'll make mistakes.
disrupt any Qb and he will make mistakes^^^ Brady didn't make too many mistakes but he was far less able to make big plays.....
Pass rush is everything in the NFL on defense.
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goldenratio
Special Teams
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Post by goldenratio on Jul 31, 2018 15:10:31 GMT -5
Brady didn't make too many mistakes but he was far less able to make big plays.....
Pass rush is everything in the NFL on defense.
The Betcher factor brings a level of excitement to the NYG pass rush. scheme goes a long way in today's NFL methinks. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 31, 2018 15:42:46 GMT -5
Well the one thing we have not had is a HR hitting RB. No matter what, the defense has to account for barkley. Now if they try to outright bring the house then it subjects the defense to allowing barkley to leak out and catch a pass. That would not be good to have to face this guy with open field conditions. Im sure Shurmer would love to see it. Heck I would love to screen teams to death too because of the pressure. Barkley definitely changes things. whats even better he can run the route tree they will have worry about more then screens. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 31, 2018 15:48:24 GMT -5
You nailed it. Pass rush. Pass rush. Pass rush.
Disrupt Eli and he'll make mistakes.
disrupt any Qb and he will make mistakes^^^ 99.9% of QBs fold under pressure,for some they face it week in and week out it gets in there head,Brady has never faced consistent pressure but when he did he did the same as most other QBs fumbled committed intentional grounding penalty's and was not as accurate, you hit'em most QBs fold |
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Post by Roswell on Jul 31, 2018 16:00:10 GMT -5
I think some of us are overstating Flowers performance level. He was below average, not the worst player in the league. He gave up 6.5 sacks last year and 3 were in one game. No false starts. He has actually improved each year. He might struggle on the right side but he will be out there giving it his best.
Last year the entire line was bad. Not just Flowers. Too much hate for the guy.
The whole notion that he was the only player underachieving on last years team or that he’s the only question mark heading into this season is ridiculous.
As far as how do you attack this team? The same way you attack every QB. Get in his face. That goes for Brady, Brees, etc
But I’m an optimist. And I think if teams send five then Manning will read it and get the ball where it belongs most of the time. And if he does, the Giants will probably be at or near the top in YAC.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 16:35:38 GMT -5
Brady didn't make too many mistakes but he was far less able to make big plays.....
Pass rush is everything in the NFL on defense.
Brady couldn’t manage 20 points in those SB facing a good pass rush. Something Eli faces every week. |
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 31, 2018 16:41:23 GMT -5
Brady didn't make too many mistakes but he was far less able to make big plays.....
Pass rush is everything in the NFL on defense.
Brady couldn’t manage 20 points in those SB facing a good pass rush. Something Eli faces every week. Probably the most underrated defensive performance in NFL history. They held the best offense in NFL history up to that point to 14 points.
But it's not like Brady threw picks and missed a lot of guys. Our D was just awesome. he simply didn't have time to make plays.
I give our defense all the credit in the world for that performance.
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Post by TEM on Jul 31, 2018 17:23:40 GMT -5
Well the one thing we have not had is a HR hitting RB. No matter what, the defense has to account for barkley. Now if they try to outright bring the house then it subjects the defense to allowing barkley to leak out and catch a pass. That would not be good to have to face this guy with open field conditions. Im sure Shurmer would love to see it. Heck I would love to screen teams to death too because of the pressure. Barkley definitely changes things. This is a good point. |
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goldenratio
Special Teams
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Post by goldenratio on Jul 31, 2018 17:26:49 GMT -5
Brady didn't make too many mistakes but he was far less able to make big plays.....
Pass rush is everything in the NFL on defense.
Brady couldn’t manage 20 points in those SB facing a good pass rush. Something Eli faces every week. Truth! |
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Post by cdngfan on Jul 31, 2018 17:56:46 GMT -5
i agree that pass rush is almost every offense's kyrptonite, but to me the goal has always been 4 man pressure.
If your 4 guys can get consistent pressure, it lowers confidence of the o line, they stop thinking the guy beside them is going to do their job, that results in blitzes that have guys getting a free shot at the QB because of the mayhem caused on the line.
blitzing is not magic. Scheme can help absolutely, but at the end of the day scheme will never replace the effectiveness of natural 4 man pressure.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 31, 2018 17:59:35 GMT -5
I agree with most of you of course the defense has to figure out a way to contain Beckham and Barkley, and that favors Engram and Sheppard to big factors and make bigger plays. It sounds so exciting that I'm trying to tamper down my expectations. I'm not doing very well. I'm getting really excited.
Beckham couldn't be stopped his first 3 years as the only real threat. With Barkley it doesn't seem feasible to shut down both. If the O line can actually be viable and we actually have a dangerous or semi dangerous run game it has to take defenses out of 2 high safties and play the run. Beckham still has to be double teamed most of the time with a safety high on him. Something else has to give in the defense, imagine if there is actually time to look the defense over ?
I think we'll be finally be able to score more than 17 points in a game.
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Post by TEM on Jul 31, 2018 18:12:35 GMT -5
I agree with most of you of course the defense has to figure out a way to contain Beckham and Barkley, and that favors Engram and Sheppard to big factors and make bigger plays. It sounds so exciting that I'm trying to tamper down my expectations. I'm not doing very well. I'm getting really excited. Beckham couldn't be stopped his first 3 years as the only real threat. With Barkley it doesn't seem feasible to shut down both. If the O line can actually be viable and we actually have a dangerous or semi dangerous run game it has to take defenses out of 2 high safties and play the run. Beckham still has to be double teamed most of the time with a safety high on him. Something else has to give in the defense, imagine if there is actually time to look the defense over ? I think we'll be finally be able to score more than 17 points in a game. We will have 5 players on the field on any offensive play that can move the Chains. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2018 18:27:42 GMT -5
Man I would finally love to see the Giants run it down cover 2’s throat.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 31, 2018 18:29:52 GMT -5
I agree with most of you of course the defense has to figure out a way to contain Beckham and Barkley, and that favors Engram and Sheppard to big factors and make bigger plays. It sounds so exciting that I'm trying to tamper down my expectations. I'm not doing very well. I'm getting really excited. Beckham couldn't be stopped his first 3 years as the only real threat. With Barkley it doesn't seem feasible to shut down both. If the O line can actually be viable and we actually have a dangerous or semi dangerous run game it has to take defenses out of 2 high safties and play the run. Beckham still has to be double teamed most of the time with a safety high on him. Something else has to give in the defense, imagine if there is actually time to look the defense over ? I think we'll be finally be able to score more than 17 points in a game. We will have 5 players on the field on any offensive play that can move the Chains. Tem we just have to stay healthy and the sky is the limit. Your absolutely right we'll have so many options. |
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 31, 2018 18:47:31 GMT -5
We will have 5 players on the field on any offensive play that can move the Chains. Tem we just have to stay healthy and the sky is the limit. Your absolutely right we'll have so many options. I would say that it's very.....VERY rare for an NFL team to "stay healthy" in today's NFL.
As we have seen, an NFL season is generally a war of attrition.
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Jul 31, 2018 19:19:30 GMT -5
At the start of the year I’d expect defenses to test the line early. In the first few weeks we will see how good this new line will be.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Jul 31, 2018 20:35:10 GMT -5
Im just hoping for the #15 ranked Oline in the NFL. If we get that, then all chips need to be put in.
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Post by allnygin on Jul 31, 2018 20:43:48 GMT -5
easily just field a dline, could even be highschoolers and they'd still have their way.
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Jul 31, 2018 21:22:14 GMT -5
This Oline will be well prepared for the pass rush after this preseason with Bettcher's D.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 31, 2018 21:59:59 GMT -5
i agree that pass rush is almost every offense's kyrptonite, but to me the goal has always been 4 man pressure. If your 4 guys can get consistent pressure, it lowers confidence of the o line, they stop thinking the guy beside them is going to do their job, that results in blitzes that have guys getting a free shot at the QB because of the mayhem caused on the line. blitzing is not magic. Scheme can help absolutely, but at the end of the day scheme will never replace the effectiveness of natural 4 man pressure. Well said; this was a major problem last year. Teams often got good pressure with only three. I expect a much better effort this year. |
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Post by ocgiant on Jul 31, 2018 23:05:33 GMT -5
I think some of us are overstating Flowers performance level. He was below average, not the worst player in the league. He gave up 6.5 sacks last year and 3 were in one game. No false starts. He has actually improved each year. He might struggle on the right side but he will be out there giving it his best. Last year the entire line was bad. Not just Flowers. Too much hate for the guy. The whole notion that he was the only player underachieving on last years team or that he’s the only question mark heading into this season is ridiculous. As far as how do you attack this team? The same way you attack every QB. Get in his face. That goes for Brady, Brees, etc But I’m an optimist. And I think if teams send five then Manning will read it and get the ball where it belongs most of the time. And if he does, the Giants will probably be at or near the top in YAC. I do not think it is hating Flowers... it is the fact he is a big disappointment and has not helped his cause... if Gettleman and Shurmur could have gotten something for Flowers he would not be a discussion right now. If he has improved now is the time to show it... |
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