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Post by alwaysready126 on Aug 6, 2018 12:45:53 GMT -5
How do all of you feel regarding the culture that has evolved since Shurmur took over? When I think of the cultures that were cultivated when we won our championships - the era's of Coughlin and Parcells. Those that were cultivated by Belichick or even the Ditka's, Cowers or (Jimmy) Johnsons of the world, I can't help to think that the culture of the Giants right now is not in that caliber. What do all of you think?
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Post by GameTime on Aug 6, 2018 12:55:46 GMT -5
to me the culture revolves around winning first. From there you can push the team over the top with the right "culture". If your not winning then the culture will go in the toilet quickly.
Thats why teams like the Browns start with high hopes but it will only take a few losses to put them back in a bad culture mode.
It will remain to be seen how Shurmur can keep the team together if/when they have a rough start. He seems to me to be a realistic type person.
He wont be a dope like Rex Ryan and preach SB right away. That is just not good coaching at all IMO.
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Post by alwaysready126 on Aug 6, 2018 12:56:22 GMT -5
i think i need to elaborate a bit here...
it just seems to me that while Shurmur is a no nonsense type guy, the culture seems to be a bit softer (for lack of a better word) than those of the ones listed above. Coaches the were able to lead their team consistently to the playoffs seem like they were tougher. Maybe im off base.....
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Post by alwaysready126 on Aug 6, 2018 12:58:25 GMT -5
to me the culture revolves around winning first. From there you can push the team over the top with the right "culture". If your not winning then the culture will go in the toilet quickly. Thats why teams like the Browns start with high hopes but it will only take a few losses to put them back in a bad culture mode. It will remain to be seen how Shurmur can keep the team together if/when they have a rough start. He seems to me to be a realistic type person. He wont be a dope like Rex Ryan and preach SB right away. That is just not good coaching at all IMO. good point... its amazing how fragile the future is right now. If we get off to a great start and win 3 of 4 games to start this season considering our opponents, the sky is the limit. If we lose our first 4, i can see things going down fast, but not as fast as they did with MAC-A-POOP.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 6, 2018 12:58:39 GMT -5
i think i need to elaborate a bit here... it just seems to me that while Shurmur is a no nonsense type guy, the culture seems to be a bit softer (for lack of a better word) than those of the ones listed above. Coaches the were able to lead their team consistently to the playoffs seem like they were tougher. Maybe im off base..... eehh....soft doesnt necessarily mean loose and weak. He seems like he wont put up with much crap.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Aug 6, 2018 13:03:37 GMT -5
i think i need to elaborate a bit here... it just seems to me that while Shurmur is a no nonsense type guy, the culture seems to be a bit softer (for lack of a better word) than those of the ones listed above. Coaches the were able to lead their team consistently to the playoffs seem like they were tougher. Maybe im off base..... eehh....soft doesnt necessarily mean loose and weak. He seems like he wont put up with much crap. Exactly. McAdoofus came across as an aggressive, annoyed, defensive, don't question me kind of guy. How'd that work out? Shurmur has a calming demeanor when speaking. I enjoy listening to him. Now go win.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 6, 2018 13:05:33 GMT -5
eehh....soft doesnt necessarily mean loose and weak. He seems like he wont put up with much crap. Exactly. McAdoofus came across as an aggressive, annoyed, defensive, don't question me kind of guy. How's that work out? Shurmur has a calming demeanor when speaking. I enjoy listening to him. Now go win.Al Davis......... Just win Baby......
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Post by bringsimmsback on Aug 6, 2018 13:24:30 GMT -5
How do all of you feel regarding the culture that has evolved since Shurmur took over? When I think of the cultures that were cultivated when we won our championships - the era's of Coughlin and Parcells. Those that were cultivated by Belichick or even the Ditka's, Cowers or (Jimmy) Johnsons of the world, I can't help to think that the culture of the Giants right now is not in that caliber. What do all of you think? I feel like I have very little to base an opinion on at this point. I like that he seems to have a camp with more hitting than last year and some players attitudes seem to be better but, as I said, it seems that way based on very little data.
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Post by Parademon1 on Aug 6, 2018 13:31:03 GMT -5
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. IMO, He needs to impose the mindset into the team that every single game is important to win & not just blow off an opening season loss to the Jags with the usual , "we still have 15 games to fix it " mantra. Lose to J-Ville & now the Dallas game is a "must win" high pressure game as this team cannot afford an 0-2 start. That means they can only afford to lose 4 more times the rest of the yr in order to have a realistic shot at the playoffs.
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 6, 2018 14:03:57 GMT -5
How do all of you feel regarding the culture that has evolved since Shurmur took over? When I think of the cultures that were cultivated when we won our championships - the era's of Coughlin and Parcells. Those that were cultivated by Belichick or even the Ditka's, Cowers or (Jimmy) Johnsons of the world, I can't help to think that the culture of the Giants right now is not in that caliber. What do all of you think?
Word on Shurmur was that he was a hard ass. I'm not sure about now, but he comes across as someone who's serious but sensible.
I like the fact that he's got the Giants working in pads all the time unlike McDoofus.
I think we are going to see a nastier version of the Giants this year.
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Post by nysports98 on Aug 6, 2018 15:24:21 GMT -5
all these coaches are hard asses despite the occasional smile.
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Merc
Special Teams
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Post by Merc on Aug 6, 2018 16:27:12 GMT -5
Win one game at a time and don't look back.
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 6, 2018 18:41:03 GMT -5
all these coaches are hard asses despite the occasional smile. McAdoo wasnt Imo. He appeared tough with the press but not with his players.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 6, 2018 19:17:03 GMT -5
all these coaches are hard asses despite the occasional smile. McAdoo wasnt Imo. He appeared tough with the press but not with his players. in last year's situation he was totally overmatched with the job of being an NFL HC.
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 6, 2018 20:55:57 GMT -5
McAdoo wasnt Imo. He appeared tough with the press but not with his players. in last year's situation he was totally overmatched with the job of being an NFL HC.
That's so true. He went into the off season last year committed to reviewing and correcting the issues as he saw them, and then came back with the same offense.
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Eazy E
Special Teams
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Post by Eazy E on Aug 6, 2018 21:12:23 GMT -5
I like Shurmur. He seems like he is all business. He has a plan, he wants to win and he wants to teach. This cant be bad. Im very excited for the future. Macadoodoo did not have these traits.
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Post by nysports98 on Aug 6, 2018 21:25:13 GMT -5
all these coaches are hard asses despite the occasional smile. McAdoo wasnt Imo. He appeared tough with the press but not with his players.
McAdoo went easy on some of these highly emotional players and then had that "brutally honest" meeting after the 49ers game and the hard went soft while the soft melted away. This was a soft team and any pressure McAdoo put on them, they crumbled.
I thought McAdoo recognized the team was trying yet with no OL and no Receivers there was no hope. He went after the defense b/c the effort wasn't there and we found Cro taking off his pads, Apple acting like a baby, Pierre Paul yaking it up like he didn't care, Jack Rabbit going bi-polar and Collins never shutting his mouth.
McAdoo may not have been as good a coach as the 11 wins indicated yet was no where as bad as the 3 win team. He was a very young coach who was dealt an impossible hand. No OL, no WR, no Running game and an owner who was in hiding, especially after endorsing the circus at QB and was conveniently not in the building when the message was sent.
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Post by Sarcasman on Aug 6, 2018 23:24:00 GMT -5
all these coaches are hard asses despite the occasional smile. I'm OK with that.
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Post by boxcarwillie on Aug 6, 2018 23:48:09 GMT -5
i think i need to elaborate a bit here... it just seems to me that while Shurmur is a no nonsense type guy, the culture seems to be a bit softer (for lack of a better word) than those of the ones listed above. Coaches the were able to lead their team consistently to the playoffs seem like they were tougher. Maybe im off base..... I may be wrong too, but I'm thinking that there may be more that one type of winning culture. Similar to martial arts styles, some are harder, some softer. I always admire any competitor than is masterful with the softer style. Steady, smart, patient and opportunistic. Hopefully not boring though.
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 7, 2018 6:09:04 GMT -5
McAdoo wasnt Imo. He appeared tough with the press but not with his players.
McAdoo went easy on some of these highly emotional players and then had that "brutally honest" meeting after the 49ers game and the hard went soft while the soft melted away. This was a soft team and any pressure McAdoo put on them, they crumbled.
I thought McAdoo recognized the team was trying yet with no OL and no Receivers there was no hope. He went after the defense b/c the effort wasn't there and we found Cro taking off his pads, Apple acting like a baby, Pierre Paul yaking it up like he didn't care, Jack Rabbit going bi-polar and Collins never shutting his mouth.
McAdoo may not have been as good a coach as the 11 wins indicated yet was no where as bad as the 3 win team. He was a very young coach who was dealt an impossible hand. No OL, no WR, no Running game and an owner who was in hiding, especially after endorsing the circus at QB and was conveniently not in the building when the message was sent.
We watched what the offense became under McAdoo. What was a top 10 offense in 2014-15 was now among the leagues worst. On the positive side, McAdoo appeared to know what it took to allow his defense to win games for him while struggling with his offense. But that didn’t take him very far as we all know. I do agree however that McAodd was dealt a difficult hand and he clearly wasn’t qualified to handle it.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 7, 2018 7:03:48 GMT -5
i think i need to elaborate a bit here... it just seems to me that while Shurmur is a no nonsense type guy, the culture seems to be a bit softer (for lack of a better word) than those of the ones listed above. Coaches the were able to lead their team consistently to the playoffs seem like they were tougher. Maybe im off base..... I may be wrong too, but I'm thinking that there may be more that one type of winning culture. Similar to martial arts styles, some are harder, some softer. I always admire any competitor than is masterful with the softer style. Steady, smart, patient and opportunistic. Hopefully not boring though. absolutely there are different successful coaching styles/cultures.
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Post by nysports98 on Aug 7, 2018 8:00:53 GMT -5
McAdoo went easy on some of these highly emotional players and then had that "brutally honest" meeting after the 49ers game and the hard went soft while the soft melted away. This was a soft team and any pressure McAdoo put on them, they crumbled.
I thought McAdoo recognized the team was trying yet with no OL and no Receivers there was no hope. He went after the defense b/c the effort wasn't there and we found Cro taking off his pads, Apple acting like a baby, Pierre Paul yaking it up like he didn't care, Jack Rabbit going bi-polar and Collins never shutting his mouth.
McAdoo may not have been as good a coach as the 11 wins indicated yet was no where as bad as the 3 win team. He was a very young coach who was dealt an impossible hand. No OL, no WR, no Running game and an owner who was in hiding, especially after endorsing the circus at QB and was conveniently not in the building when the message was sent.
We watched what the offense became under McAdoo. What was a top 10 offense in 2014-15 was now among the leagues worst.
With the defense giving up a record number of yardage it wasn't like the opposition wasn't laying off. Then the league changed and besides Beckham, who was there? Defenses were blindsided by Beckham and the home run ball until 2015 then the defenses took the long ball away and now everybody dinks and dunks. The Giants didn't have the personnel.
- Rashaad Jennings was the best option and he looked like a Tony Galbreath - take away Beckham's long ball - deplorable blocking - no TE - a mistake prone QB - (they still moved the football b/c the opposing defenses had a nice lead. There was no threat to an opposing defense the Giants would win)
Maybe Mac wanted to force the ball to OBJ but for all his experience it was Eli misfiring a lot. High ball, odd clock management, audibling non-stop like his brother which gives the defense plenty of time to audible right back, etc.
This miserable roster cost every coordinator their jobs, then cost Coughlin his job, then Mac. Not sure how good or bad or whatever Mac is/was but I find it hard to believe all these coach stunk and the talent was solid. IMO, this roster stunk
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Aug 7, 2018 9:17:10 GMT -5
We watched what the offense became under McAdoo. What was a top 10 offense in 2014-15 was now among the leagues worst.
This miserable roster cost every coordinator their jobs, then cost Coughlin his job, then Mac. Not sure how good or bad or whatever Mac is/was but I find it hard to believe all these coach stunk and the talent was solid. IMO, this roster stunk
I think, apart from a few notable players, the staff and players all stunk. The team has been a goddamn mess since 2012 and 2016 was just a paper tiger.
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Post by Martin on Aug 7, 2018 9:34:26 GMT -5
in last year's situation he was totally overmatched with the job of being an NFL HC.
That's so true. He went into the off season last year committed to reviewing and correcting the issues as he saw them, and then came back with the same offense.
Rosie, as Giant fans we've had our fair share of talking from the HC and GM. I am positive and hopeful but have been burned before (like you) with talk and perceptions. From my vantage point I want to see physical football. I want to see a consistent running game. Eli is not changeable but there are lot of elements that can be fixed to win games. Attitude, physicality and execution are on top of my list. Ben Mac didn't get that from his team lets see if the new coach can.
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Post by Parademon1 on Aug 7, 2018 10:13:26 GMT -5
nysports98 stated: "No OL, no WR, no Running game"
But yet, all we hear from the Eli haters is that he was supposed to elevate the team with his play , how can you do that when you have No OL, no WRs, no run game! Tom Brady & AR would have been hard pressed to win more than 3-4 games last yr playing on the 2017 Giants O. Don't anyone give me that crap that they could have won 6+ games. Flowers would have had Brady's internal clock so jacked up that Brady woulda had flashbacks to the 07' SB. Either way, the Eli haters win cuz if he has a great yr, they'll state "it's only cuz he got better offensive weapons & an improved OL", . Duh! What QB wouldn't benefit from that? For the 1st time since 2012, he will have a RB that will force opposing Ds to respect our run game, 5 yrs of having defenses laugh when asked about the Giants "run" game are over. A run game is every single QBs best friend, Eli hasn't had a best friend in that dept for 5yrs, let's see what happens this yr now that he finally does.
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 7, 2018 10:31:26 GMT -5
That's so true. He went into the off season last year committed to reviewing and correcting the issues as he saw them, and then came back with the same offense.
Rosie, as Giant fans we've had our fair share of talking from the HC and GM. I am positive and hopeful but have been burned before (like you) with talk and perceptions. From my vantage point I want to see physical football. I want to see a consistent running game. Eli is not changeable but there are lot of elements that can be fixed to win games. Attitude, physicality and execution are on top of my list. Ben Mac didn't get that from his team lets see if the new coach can.
I couldn't agree more. I had trouble watching last year, and I'll admit that it was the first time in probably 30 years that I didn't watch some games and didn't take the time to re-watch it.
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Post by GameTime on Aug 7, 2018 10:36:09 GMT -5
Rosie, as Giant fans we've had our fair share of talking from the HC and GM. I am positive and hopeful but have been burned before (like you) with talk and perceptions. From my vantage point I want to see physical football. I want to see a consistent running game. Eli is not changeable but there are lot of elements that can be fixed to win games. Attitude, physicality and execution are on top of my list. Ben Mac didn't get that from his team lets see if the new coach can.
I couldn't agree more. I had trouble watching last year, and I'll admit that it was the first time in probably 30 years that I didn't watch some games and didn't take the time to re-watch it. why would you bother. Only to get pissed off?
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 7, 2018 11:10:02 GMT -5
We watched what the offense became under McAdoo. What was a top 10 offense in 2014-15 was now among the leagues worst.
With the defense giving up a record number of yardage it wasn't like the opposition wasn't laying off. Then the league changed and besides Beckham, who was there? Defenses were blindsided by Beckham and the home run ball until 2015 then the defenses took the long ball away and now everybody dinks and dunks. The Giants didn't have the personnel.
- Rashaad Jennings was the best option and he looked like a Tony Galbreath - take away Beckham's long ball - deplorable blocking - no TE - a mistake prone QB - (they still moved the football b/c the opposing defenses had a nice lead. There was no threat to an opposing defense the Giants would win)
Maybe Mac wanted to force the ball to OBJ but for all his experience it was Eli misfiring a lot. High ball, odd clock management, audibling non-stop like his brother which gives the defense plenty of time to audible right back, etc.
This miserable roster cost every coordinator their jobs, then cost Coughlin his job, then Mac. Not sure how good or bad or whatever Mac is/was but I find it hard to believe all these coach stunk and the talent was solid. IMO, this roster stunk
It has always been my contention that the HC has a huge say in personnel decisions. If you are a GM and you are not going to build a team around your HC's vision than why did you hire him? What I think happened with McAdoo was he was hired for the wrong reason. He was hired for continuity, and it obviously failed. But that doesn't mean I'm suggesting we had decent personnel. I just think as an example that Reese and McAdoo were both on the same page with Flowers and Hart last year. I think they both screwed up. I just might put more on the coaching staff than maybe you do. As an example, why did our Oline seem to play better after some injuries?
Or look at the Rams as an example. Did they have a huge turnover in personnel once they ousted Fisher, or did coaching play a significant role in their turn around?
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Post by Roosevelt on Aug 7, 2018 11:10:31 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more. I had trouble watching last year, and I'll admit that it was the first time in probably 30 years that I didn't watch some games and didn't take the time to re-watch it. why would you bother. Only to get pissed off?
To help me sleep.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2018 11:24:05 GMT -5
McAdoo was too busy always trying to save his own arse, rather than coaching up the players. I just knew he was a waste from the start.
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