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Post by McCherry on Mar 4, 2020 18:37:09 GMT -5
played only 6 or 7 season with the NYGs. Not a franchise in that regard He probably should have been. Wonder why they didn’t. I remember it not being as big an issue then as it is now. I think I recall he had a back issue? We didn't resign him, he clearly overcame it and went on to a great career with the Jets.
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mj312
Special Teams
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Post by mj312 on Mar 4, 2020 18:43:02 GMT -5
in their entire team's history. This fact isn't being discussed enough. I've heard "Giants haven't had a Linebacker like Simmons since Carl Banks" as a reason to draft Simmons. Now replace the word "Linebacker" with "stud Left Tackle": The Giants have never had a stud Left Tackle since....EVER Our last 5 Left Tackles: - Nate Solder - Ereck Flowers - Will Beatty - David Diehl - Luke Pettigout Look at the other 3 teams in the division. While the Giants have trotted out the above 5 JAGs at LT, the Cowboys trotted out Flozell Adams / Doug Free / Tyron Smith. The Redskins trotted out Trent Williams. The Eagles trotted out Tra Thomas / Jason Peters. Stop thinking about Simmons. Simmons is a luxury pick given the current state of the roster. Fix this glaring Left Tackle problem FIRST before even thinking about Off-Ball players. Team Building 101 You do realize that any left tackle they pick can end up in the same scrap heap of players that u mentioned right ? Also when the giants drafted and signed those players do you understand that the intent and hope was that they were all supposed to be Franchise left tackles ? I'm fairly confident that the Giants didn't draft flowers in the 1st round or give solder a 75 million dollar contract because they were supposed to suck .. this defense has been ignored long enough.. this franchise has had too many disgusting last minute losses because we can't pass rush or cover the big slow tight end running down the middle of the field .. a guy like Simmons isnt a luxury , he's a necessity if you want to win.. unless your "franchise left tackle " is going to play defense also then keep him and get this defense some help .. the word franchise player cracks me up .. how do you know any player is a franchise player until they actually play in the NFL ?
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 4, 2020 18:56:50 GMT -5
He probably should have been. Wonder why they didn’t. I remember it not being as big an issue then as it is now. I think I recall he had a back issue? We didn't resign him, he clearly overcame it and went on to a great career with the Jets. He was out for like 2 years and revived his career with the Jets when it looked like he was done
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 19:42:36 GMT -5
I think I recall he had a back issue? We didn't resign him, he clearly overcame it and went on to a great career with the Jets. He was out for like 2 years and revived his career with the Jets when it looked like he was done Probably because Parcells was over there. Any other coach would have probably said no.
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Post by lexington11 on Mar 4, 2020 20:01:22 GMT -5
in their entire team's history. This fact isn't being discussed enough. I've heard "Giants haven't had a Linebacker like Simmons since Carl Banks" as a reason to draft Simmons. Now replace the word "Linebacker" with "stud Left Tackle": The Giants have never had a stud Left Tackle since....EVER Our last 5 Left Tackles: - Nate Solder - Ereck Flowers - Will Beatty - David Diehl - Luke Pettigout Look at the other 3 teams in the division. While the Giants have trotted out the above 5 JAGs at LT, the Cowboys trotted out Flozell Adams / Doug Free / Tyron Smith. The Redskins trotted out Trent Williams. The Eagles trotted out Tra Thomas / Jason Peters. Stop thinking about Simmons. Simmons is a luxury pick given the current state of the roster. Fix this glaring Left Tackle problem FIRST before even thinking about Off-Ball players. Team Building 101 the defense is way worse than the offense. The line wasn’t as bad as it gets fingered for. Offensive line middle of the pack. Defense near the bottom. Doesn’t matter if we get the best LT ever if the defense can’t stop anybody. Daniel jones was the best road starting qb in the league last season. Defense wins championships 101.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 4, 2020 20:17:56 GMT -5
Lol
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Post by giants8493 on Mar 4, 2020 20:22:02 GMT -5
Was Roosevelt Brown an LT or a RT because he was great and certainly fits the whole franchise criteria? Doesn't he make the all 100 team?
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Post by Roswell on Mar 4, 2020 20:22:42 GMT -5
So you point out that a team with 4 Super Bowls built on DEFENSE and never having a great OT should pass on building their DEFENSE in order to sign a OT? I fail to see your logic. Real nice post.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 4, 2020 20:29:47 GMT -5
So you point out that a team with 4 Super Bowls built on DEFENSE and never having a great OT should pass on building their DEFENSE in order to sign a OT? I fail to see your logic. Real nice post. Nevermind that our offense carried the team in 2011,actually our passing game carried the team that year and through the playoffs... But The revisionist dogma strikes again
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 4, 2020 20:31:43 GMT -5
Yeah Jumbo Elliot was VERY GOOD but no he wasn't a "Franchise Left Tackle Also we won 2 Super Bowls with David Diehl as our Left Tackle, Chiefs just won a Super Bowl with Eric Fisher as their Left Tackle so you don't NEED a Franchise Left Tackle to win Wasnt Eric Fischer a 1 overall draft pick Yep
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 20:44:37 GMT -5
Nevermind that our offense carried the team in 2011,actually our passing game carried the team that year and through the playoffs... But The revisionist dogma strikes again 1) Did that offense involve a 1st round stud LT? No it had a 2nd round pick starting. 2) Are you really saying the D didn't win us that SB? The Pats averaged 32 a game, we held them to 17. The O carried them in the regular season, almost 25 points per game. In the playoffs they got to their average 1 game. Mean while in the other 3 games the D held our opponents to 2, 17 and 17.
So yes even in 2011 our team was built on a non 1st round LT and a killer defense.
OL in 2011 draft position - LT 2nd, LG 5th, C 2nd, RG 2nd, RT 3rd
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Post by Zimonami on Mar 4, 2020 21:08:03 GMT -5
Nevermind that our offense carried the team in 2011,actually our passing game carried the team that year and through the playoffs... But The revisionist dogma strikes again Playoffs: Giants 24, Atlanta - 2 pts Giants 34, Green Bay - 20 Giants 20, San Francisco - 17 Giants 21, New England - 17 The defense came on at the end of the year and was the primary reason for winning the SB, as the offense only scored 20. In those 4 games the Offense only scored more than 24 pts in the GB game. Pats were held to 20 or less in only 3 of their 16 games that years Defense wins championships
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 4, 2020 21:20:28 GMT -5
Nevermind that our offense carried the team in 2011,actually our passing game carried the team that year and through the playoffs... But The revisionist dogma strikes again 1) Did that offense involve a 1st round stud LT? No it had a 2nd round pick starting. 2) Are you really saying the D didn't win us that SB? The Pats averaged 32 a game, we held them to 17. The O carried them in the regular season, almost 25 points per game. In the playoffs they got to their average 1 game. Mean while in the other 3 games the D held our opponents to 2, 17 and 17.
So yes even in 2011 our team was built on a non 1st round LT and a killer defense.
OL in 2011 draft position - LT 2nd, LG 5th, C 2nd, RG 2nd, RT 3rd
What killer defense was it built around? If Eli and that high powered offense didn't carry that team in the regular season that was a 5-11 team Eli and that offense set a record for most yards in a postseason..... The defense finally showed up and didnt suck Stop with the revisionist history.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 4, 2020 21:22:11 GMT -5
Nevermind that our offense carried the team in 2011,actually our passing game carried the team that year and through the playoffs... But The revisionist dogma strikes again Playoffs: Giants 24, Atlanta - 2 pts Giants 34, Green Bay - 20 Giants 20, San Francisco - 17 Giants 21, New England - 17 The defense came on at the end of the year and was the primary reason for winning the SB, as the offense only scored 20. In those 4 games the Offense only scored more than 24 pts in the GB game. Pats were held to 20 or less in only 3 of their 16 games that years Defense wins championships Defense combined with a high powered offense that can bail out the team when needed and have the firepower to make a 4th quarter comeback wins championships.. It's not 1990 anymore where teams can be built to win 10-6 games all year and through the playoffs..
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 21:33:53 GMT -5
Defense combined with a high powered offense A high powered offense with ZERO 1st round offensive linemen. 7 first round draft picks starting, 5 were on the defense.
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Post by Zimonami on Mar 4, 2020 21:43:11 GMT -5
Playoffs: Giants 24, Atlanta - 2 pts Giants 34, Green Bay - 20 Giants 20, San Francisco - 17 Giants 21, New England - 17 The defense came on at the end of the year and was the primary reason for winning the SB, as the offense only scored 20. In those 4 games the Offense only scored more than 24 pts in the GB game. Pats were held to 20 or less in only 3 of their 16 games that years Defense wins championships Defense combined with a high powered offense that can bail out the team when needed and have the firepower to make a 4th quarter comeback wins championships.. It's not 1990 anymore where teams can be built to win 10-6 games all year and through the playoffs.. we were 8th in total offense that year..;. averaged 24,6 ppg. That's OK, but far from High Powered. In the last 3 regular season games plus 4 playoff games the defense gave up an average of 15.3 ppg. That's high powered Defense. Plus, that High Powered Offense only won 9 games in the regular season. Pats averaged 32 pts that year. Our defense held them to 17 in the SB Green Bay averaged 35 ppg that year, and we held them to 20. But, you can continue to claim it was all the offense if you like.
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Post by Zimonami on Mar 4, 2020 22:24:00 GMT -5
Defense combined with a high powered offense that can bail out the team when needed and have the firepower to make a 4th quarter comeback wins championships.. It's not 1990 anymore where teams can be built to win 10-6 games all year and through the playoffs.. we were 8th in total offense that year..;. averaged 24,6 ppg. That's OK, but far from High Powered. In the last 3 regular season games plus 4 playoff games the defense gave up an average of 15.3 ppg. That's high powered Defense. Plus, that High Powered Offense only won 9 games in the regular season. Pats averaged 32 pts that year. Our defense held them to 17 in the SB Green Bay averaged 35 ppg that year, and we held them to 20. But, you can continue to claim it was all the offense if you like. Here is another fact from that playoff drive in 2011... The Giant defense went to Perry Fewell and begged him to go to man-man instead of zone with 3 games left in the season. Result? In the first game they gave up 23 to the Skins. The high powered offense only scored 10 points, and we lost. Then, we won the last 2 games giving up only 14 points in each game, and the results in the playoffs as posted above, Defense woin us a Championship.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 4, 2020 22:28:09 GMT -5
we were 8th in total offense that year..;. averaged 24,6 ppg. That's OK, but far from High Powered. In the last 3 regular season games plus 4 playoff games the defense gave up an average of 15.3 ppg. That's high powered Defense. Plus, that High Powered Offense only won 9 games in the regular season. Pats averaged 32 pts that year. Our defense held them to 17 in the SB Green Bay averaged 35 ppg that year, and we held them to 20. But, you can continue to claim it was all the offense if you like. Giantlegacy is the only person that thinks that title was won by the offense, and he only thinks that because he has an agenda.
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Post by giants38 on Mar 4, 2020 23:09:09 GMT -5
in their entire team's history. This fact isn't being discussed enough. I've heard "Giants haven't had a Linebacker like Simmons since Carl Banks" as a reason to draft Simmons. Now replace the word "Linebacker" with "stud Left Tackle": The Giants have never had a stud Left Tackle since....EVER Our last 5 Left Tackles: - Nate Solder - Ereck Flowers - Will Beatty - David Diehl - Luke Pettigout Look at the other 3 teams in the division. While the Giants have trotted out the above 5 JAGs at LT, the Cowboys trotted out Flozell Adams / Doug Free / Tyron Smith. The Redskins trotted out Trent Williams. The Eagles trotted out Tra Thomas / Jason Peters. Stop thinking about Simmons. Simmons is a luxury pick given the current state of the roster. Fix this glaring Left Tackle problem FIRST before even thinking about Off-Ball players. Team Building 101 Dude, how old are you? Don’t you remember Elliot? Don't you remember Roosevelt Brown? Think HOF qualifies as franchise left tackle?
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 4:54:14 GMT -5
****ing obtuse
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 5:10:54 GMT -5
we were 8th in total offense that year..;. averaged 24,6 ppg. That's OK, but far from High Powered. In the last 3 regular season games plus 4 playoff games the defense gave up an average of 15.3 ppg. That's high powered Defense. Plus, that High Powered Offense only won 9 games in the regular season. Pats averaged 32 pts that year. Our defense held them to 17 in the SB Green Bay averaged 35 ppg that year, and we held them to 20. But, you can continue to claim it was all the offense if you like. Here is another fact from that playoff drive in 2011... The Giant defense went to Perry Fewell and begged him to go to man-man instead of zone with 3 games left in the season. Result? In the first game they gave up 23 to the Skins. The high powered offense only scored 10 points, and we lost. Then, we won the last 2 games giving up only 14 points in each game, and the results in the playoffs as posted above, Defense woin us a Championship. What was our overall defensive ranking in the year? What was our offensive ranking all year The team being a defensive minded team winning because of the defense and the offense just being there for ybe ride as you and some want to believe is laughable Were we winning games 10- 6 and only gaining 295 yards a game? Nope 2011 the defense contributed to winning the championship during the playoffs when the offense carried the team ....
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Post by Roswell on Mar 5, 2020 6:40:10 GMT -5
Nevermind that our offense carried the team in 2011,actually our passing game carried the team that year and through the playoffs... But The revisionist dogma strikes again I think the passing game got us into the playoffs in 2011 but the defense took over in the playoffs. But it’s understandable that most think that OT is a huge need. They’re correct. I’d still take a gamewrecker on D if available. This team needs a defensive identity and leader and has lost way too many games that they should have won because of the complete lack of a consistent pass rush. If Young somehow falls in their lap, they have to take him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 6:40:46 GMT -5
Dude, how old are you? Don’t you remember Elliot? Don't you remember Roosevelt Brown? Think HOF qualifies as franchise left tackle? He said entire teams history...I volunteered my information based on the players that I have seen in MY lifetime. I never said Roosevelt Brown because I am not 60 years old, never saw him play. I do believe he should be considered franchise. However, like I said, I know for a fact that the emphasis was not there in those days. Money is way more an issue now. Goddamn Michael Irvin and Jerry Jones!
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 6:51:56 GMT -5
Nevermind that our offense carried the team in 2011,actually our passing game carried the team that year and through the playoffs... But The revisionist dogma strikes again I think the passing game got us into the playoffs in 2011 but the defense took over in the playoffs. But it’s understandable that most think that OT is a huge need. They’re correct. I’d still take a gamewrecker on D if available. This team needs a defensive identity and leader and has lost way too many games that they should have won because of the complete lack of a consistent pass rush. If Young somehow falls in their lap, they have to take him. To me Young is the only true game wrecker in this draft and if he is there at 4 by some miracle you really have to take him.. The unfortunate probability is that he probably he goes at 2 and to a division foe,meaning we have to deal with him twice a year for a long time. So,now the responsible thing to do is you have to counter that move (which also coincides with a major need)because you have to win games in your division first and foremost to have a chance to obtain a high seed in the playoffs..which should be the goal every year.So the right choice now has to be get one of the tackles that can at least neutralize the threat and make the line better overall in an extremely rare year we could have our choice of 4 blue chip prospects.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 5, 2020 7:01:16 GMT -5
I think the passing game got us into the playoffs in 2011 but the defense took over in the playoffs. But it’s understandable that most think that OT is a huge need. They’re correct. I’d still take a gamewrecker on D if available. This team needs a defensive identity and leader and has lost way too many games that they should have won because of the complete lack of a consistent pass rush. If Young somehow falls in their lap, they have to take him. To me Young is the only true game wrecker in this draft and if he is there at 4 by some miracle you really have to take him.. The unfortunate probability is that he probably he goes at 2 and to a division foe,meaning we have to deal with him twice a year for a long time. So,now the responsible thing to do is you have to counter that move (which also coincides with a major need)because you have to win games in your division first and foremost to have a chance to obtain a high seed in the playoffs..which should be the goal every year.So the right choice now has to be get one of the tackles that can at least neutralize the threat and make the line better overall in an extremely rare year we could have our choice of 4 blue chip prospects. Hard to argue with that rationale. And hard to believe that the Giants won’t have at least one OL rated in the same tier as Simmons and Okudah. If that’s the case, I think you have to take the OL. Another benefit to looking OL in the first is that you could trade back and still get a great player. Don’t think you can trade back and be sure to get Simmons or Okudah
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 5, 2020 7:45:33 GMT -5
My feeling for this draft is that assuming Young is taken before us, we should pick whomever the team thinks the best OT is (personally, I like Thomas with Wirfs as 1a). I wouldn't pass up on the best of them for Simmons or Okuda. If we could find a trade partner in picks 5 - 10, I think that would be the best option for us.
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Post by Zimonami on Mar 5, 2020 7:54:26 GMT -5
Here is another fact from that playoff drive in 2011... The Giant defense went to Perry Fewell and begged him to go to man-man instead of zone with 3 games left in the season. Result? In the first game they gave up 23 to the Skins. The high powered offense only scored 10 points, and we lost. Then, we won the last 2 games giving up only 14 points in each game, and the results in the playoffs as posted above, Defense woin us a Championship. What was our overall defensive ranking in the year? What was our offensive ranking all year The team being a defensive minded team winning because of the defense and the offense just being there for ybe ride as you and some want to believe is laughable Were we winning games 10- 6 and only gaining 295 yards a game? Nope 2011 the defense contributed to winning the championship during the playoffs when the offense carried the team .... Quit mumbling. I just showed you that the defense came alive and was outstanding in the last 7 games when they switched the DB's to a man to man. There is NO denying they carried us thru the championship games. It doesn't matter what they did through the beginning of the year. They enabled us, only giving up 14 a game, to win the last 2 regular season games and get us to the playoffs. Then they werte outstanding throughout the last 4 playoff games. Ranking 8th in offense is NOY high powered, as you say, and they certainly weren't high powered in the super bowl. The defense held the Pats, who averaged 32 points during the season, to 17 points. Do you not comprehend those facts?
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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 7:58:11 GMT -5
in their entire team's history. This fact isn't being discussed enough. I've heard "Giants haven't had a Linebacker like Simmons since Carl Banks" as a reason to draft Simmons. Now replace the word "Linebacker" with "stud Left Tackle": The Giants have never had a stud Left Tackle since....EVER Our last 5 Left Tackles: - Nate Solder - Ereck Flowers - Will Beatty - David Diehl - Luke Pettigout Look at the other 3 teams in the division. While the Giants have trotted out the above 5 JAGs at LT, the Cowboys trotted out Flozell Adams / Doug Free / Tyron Smith. The Redskins trotted out Trent Williams. The Eagles trotted out Tra Thomas / Jason Peters. Stop thinking about Simmons. Simmons is a luxury pick given the current state of the roster. Fix this glaring Left Tackle problem FIRST before even thinking about Off-Ball players. Team Building 101 Jumbo Elliott 8 years at LT.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 7:59:21 GMT -5
****ing more obtuse than a ****ing triangle
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 8:02:11 GMT -5
What was our overall defensive ranking in the year? What was our offensive ranking all year The team being a defensive minded team winning because of the defense and the offense just being there for ybe ride as you and some want to believe is laughable Were we winning games 10- 6 and only gaining 295 yards a game? Nope 2011 the defense contributed to winning the championship during the playoffs when the offense carried the team .... Quit mumbling. I just showed you that the defense came alive and was outstanding in the last 7 games when they switched the DB's to a man to man. There is NO denying they carried us thru the championship games. It doesn't matter what they did through the beginning of the year. They enabled us, only giving up 14 a game, to win the last 2 regular season games and get us to the playoffs. Then they werte outstanding throughout the last 4 playoff games. Ranking 8th in offense is NOY high powered, as you say, and they certainly weren't high powered in the super bowl. The defense held the Pats, who averaged 32 points during the season, to 17 points. Do you not comprehend those facts? And there is no denying that the offense was as huge reason why the team won a Championship? Do you not comprehend that this was not a team completely built on defense and the offense barely did anything like you and a few others seem to think?
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