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Post by TEM on Mar 5, 2020 8:13:02 GMT -5
in their entire team's history. This fact isn't being discussed enough. I've heard "Giants haven't had a Linebacker like Simmons since Carl Banks" as a reason to draft Simmons. Now replace the word "Linebacker" with "stud Left Tackle": The Giants have never had a stud Left Tackle since....EVEROur last 5 Left Tackles: - Nate Solder - Ereck Flowers - Will Beatty - David Diehl - Luke Pettigout Look at the other 3 teams in the division. While the Giants have trotted out the above 5 JAGs at LT, the Cowboys trotted out Flozell Adams / Doug Free / Tyron Smith. The Redskins trotted out Trent Williams. The Eagles trotted out Tra Thomas / Jason Peters. Stop thinking about Simmons. Simmons is a luxury pick given the current state of the roster. Fix this glaring Left Tackle problem FIRST before even thinking about Off-Ball players. Team Building 101 That is not true
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Mar 5, 2020 8:34:46 GMT -5
in their entire team's history. This fact isn't being discussed enough. I've heard "Giants haven't had a Linebacker like Simmons since Carl Banks" as a reason to draft Simmons. Now replace the word "Linebacker" with "stud Left Tackle": The Giants have never had a stud Left Tackle since....EVER Our last 5 Left Tackles: - Nate Solder - Ereck Flowers - Will Beatty - David Diehl - Luke Pettigout Look at the other 3 teams in the division. While the Giants have trotted out the above 5 JAGs at LT, the Cowboys trotted out Flozell Adams / Doug Free / Tyron Smith. The Redskins trotted out Trent Williams. The Eagles trotted out Tra Thomas / Jason Peters. Stop thinking about Simmons. Simmons is a luxury pick given the current state of the roster. Fix this glaring Left Tackle problem FIRST before even thinking about Off-Ball players. Team Building 101 the defense is way worse than the offense. The line wasn’t as bad as it gets fingered for. Offensive line middle of the pack. Defense near the bottom. Doesn’t matter if we get the best LT ever if the defense can’t stop anybody. Daniel jones was the best road starting qb in the league last season. Defense wins championships 101. I get the train of thought but with a young (hopefully) franchise QB you wanna keep him upright. A good line helps any QB mobile or not.
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Mar 5, 2020 8:35:40 GMT -5
Nevermind that our offense carried the team in 2011,actually our passing game carried the team that year and through the playoffs... But The revisionist dogma strikes again The best wr core the giants ever had.
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Post by Zimonami on Mar 5, 2020 9:26:34 GMT -5
Quit mumbling. I just showed you that the defense came alive and was outstanding in the last 7 games when they switched the DB's to a man to man. There is NO denying they carried us thru the championship games. It doesn't matter what they did through the beginning of the year. They enabled us, only giving up 14 a game, to win the last 2 regular season games and get us to the playoffs. Then they werte outstanding throughout the last 4 playoff games. Ranking 8th in offense is NOY high powered, as you say, and they certainly weren't high powered in the super bowl. The defense held the Pats, who averaged 32 points during the season, to 17 points. Do you not comprehend those facts? And there is no denying that the offense was as huge reason why the team won a Championship? Do you not comprehend that this was not a team completely built on defense and the offense barely did anything like you and a few others seem to think? I do recognize that. Good receivers, running game, QB, and a decent line and TE. What I am doing is... first, explaining that the offense was NOT high powered as you say. It was good... ranked 8th, and NOT the reason we won any gtames down the stretch. Green Bay and New England has high powered offenses... averaging 32 and 35 ppg. We averaged 24 ppg. NOT high Powered. Finally, after having problems most of the season, that defense came together when they switched to man and were the reason why we were able to keep GB and the Pats well below their High Powered offense normal stats and win those games. Just the facts. Defense won that championship game
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 9:32:02 GMT -5
And there is no denying that the offense was as huge reason why the team won a Championship? Do you not comprehend that this was not a team completely built on defense and the offense barely did anything like you and a few others seem to think? I do recognize that. Good receivers, running game, QB, and a decent line and TE. What I am doing is... first, explaining that the offense was NOT high powered as you say. It was good... ranked 8th, and NOT the reason we won any gtames down the stretch. Green Bay and New England has high powered offenses... averaging 32 and 35 ppg. We averaged 24 ppg. NOT high Powered. Finally, after having problems most of the season, that defense came together when they switched to man and were the reason why we were able to keep GB and the Pats well below their High Powered offense normal stats and win those games. Just the facts. Defense won that championship game We had the 32nx ranked running game that year.... All I'm trying to get across was that the 2011 was not defensive minded defense first team that a certain segment of our fan base seems to always whitewash If anything it was a typical modern NFL championship team that scored points and put up yards and played just enough defense at the right time to win,and not a prehistoric type team built to win 10-6 games only like in 1990 and that same segment of fans want us to go back to and in a way resent the 2011 team because it goes against their narrative of what true Giants football should be.
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rbe40
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Post by rbe40 on Mar 5, 2020 14:22:11 GMT -5
in their entire team's history. This fact isn't being discussed enough. I've heard "Giants haven't had a Linebacker like Simmons since Carl Banks" as a reason to draft Simmons. Now replace the word "Linebacker" with "stud Left Tackle": The Giants have never had a stud Left Tackle since....EVER Our last 5 Left Tackles: - Nate Solder - Ereck Flowers - Will Beatty - David Diehl - Luke Pettigout Look at the other 3 teams in the division. While the Giants have trotted out the above 5 JAGs at LT, the Cowboys trotted out Flozell Adams / Doug Free / Tyron Smith. The Redskins trotted out Trent Williams. The Eagles trotted out Tra Thomas / Jason Peters. Stop thinking about Simmons. Simmons is a luxury pick given the current state of the roster. Fix this glaring Left Tackle problem FIRST before even thinking about Off-Ball players. Team Building 101 the defense is way worse than the offense. The line wasn’t as bad as it gets fingered for. Offensive line middle of the pack. Defense near the bottom. Doesn’t matter if we get the best LT ever if the defense can’t stop anybody. Daniel jones was the best road starting qb in the league last season. Defense wins championships 101. They are clearly gearing up to load up on Defense in FA. Probably like 90% of the FA spending will be used on Defense. The other 10% on a Swing Tackle and a #4 WR, that's it on Offense. CB - Byron Jones or Chris Harris or Logan Ryan FS - Anthony Harris or Devin McCourty or Tre Boston ILB - Cory Littleton or Joe Schobert or Jamie Collins OLB - Kyle Van Noy or Dante Fowler or Clowney IDL - Resign Leonard Williams The holes should be plugged before the draft. You cannot add a blue-goose LT in FA, therefore you have to draft that guy.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 15:42:12 GMT -5
the defense is way worse than the offense. The line wasn’t as bad as it gets fingered for. Offensive line middle of the pack. Defense near the bottom. Doesn’t matter if we get the best LT ever if the defense can’t stop anybody. Daniel jones was the best road starting qb in the league last season. Defense wins championships 101. They are clearly gearing up to load up on Defense in FA. Probably like 90% of the FA spending will be used on Defense. The other 10% on a Swing Tackle and a #4 WR, that's it on Offense. CB - Byron Jones or Chris Harris or Logan Ryan FS - Anthony Harris or Devin McCourty or Tre Boston ILB - Cory Littleton or Joe Schobert or Jamie Collins OLB - Kyle Van Noy or Dante Fowler or Clowney IDL - Resign Leonard Williams The holes should be plugged before the draft. You cannot add a blue-goose LT in FA, therefore you have to draft that guy. Really agree with everything you posted here.... Only thing is I wouldn't even sign a number 4 reciever as it's such a deep class I'd rather pay a starting C like McGovern to anchor the middle of the line with a vet that can also call protections.. If we plug all those holes like we both seem to think is the right idea we could double dip at both OT(think for example Wirfs then Driscoll day 3... Then maybe Mims and another guy like Tyler Johnson (really good chance Van Jefferson falls bigtime as he has a lis franc he just had surgery on and he can be redshirted this year (or PUPed to week 6 )..
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Post by Zimonami on Mar 5, 2020 16:09:00 GMT -5
I do recognize that. Good receivers, running game, QB, and a decent line and TE. What I am doing is... first, explaining that the offense was NOT high powered as you say. It was good... ranked 8th, and NOT the reason we won any gtames down the stretch. Green Bay and New England has high powered offenses... averaging 32 and 35 ppg. We averaged 24 ppg. NOT high Powered. Finally, after having problems most of the season, that defense came together when they switched to man and were the reason why we were able to keep GB and the Pats well below their High Powered offense normal stats and win those games. Just the facts. Defense won that championship game We had the 32nx ranked running game that year.... All I'm trying to get across was that the 2011 was not defensive minded defense first team that a certain segment of our fan base seems to always whitewash If anything it was a typical modern NFL championship team that scored points and put up yards and played just enough defense at the right time to win,and not a prehistoric type team built to win 10-6 games only like in 1990 and that same segment of fans want us to go back to and in a way resent the 2011 team because it goes against their narrative of what true Giants football should be. You continue to amaze me on this... and disappoint me. 10-6? Prehistoric? Were you even a speck in the Universe in 1990? Or, old enough to understand a professional game. They are slightly bigger and stronger today, but relatively the men are equals and the game is the same. There are few plays on offense, or few defensive schemes today that were not run back then, or even in the 60;s. Just like the NBA game has become a game of 3 poi9nters, they pass more in the NFL in today's game. But you still cover a man and block and tackle. The WR's don't have any newly conceived routes to run that weren't run in the past. The offensive line still needs to block and the defense tries to tackle. Please, don't preach about something you didn't experience. Just because you can't appreciate the game then, don't call it prehistoric. It was the football that the NFL had to offer, and in 1990 it had evolved from 30 years earlier, in 1960..... and it has evolved in the 30 years since then. But, the teams today still win with defense, as I proved to you was the case in the last 7 games for the Giants in 2011. If you consider every single SB game ever played you will fine that more often the team that had the better defense that year won the SB.. Teams with a good offense usually benefitted from a good defense because they got the ball more often in good field position. That will never change. AND, if you evaluate the last 6-7 games of 2011 you will see that it absolutely was the defense that carried us. m Forget your bull crap about how average they were during the regular season. They had the best defense in thise last 6 games, AMEN, and if you had paid attention you would have noticed that the defense came into it's own the very first game after the DB's begged Fewell to go to a man to man. So, forget about the first 14 games when we were 7-7. We won our last 6 games with defense and if you deny that you have totally lost any cred I ever thought you had. So, I'm sick of this ridiculous banter with you continuing on about today's superior game and today's high powered offenses and how the game has changed. Defense first and the rest will take care of itself with a decent offense.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 16:18:32 GMT -5
We had the 32nx ranked running game that year.... All I'm trying to get across was that the 2011 was not defensive minded defense first team that a certain segment of our fan base seems to always whitewash If anything it was a typical modern NFL championship team that scored points and put up yards and played just enough defense at the right time to win,and not a prehistoric type team built to win 10-6 games only like in 1990 and that same segment of fans want us to go back to and in a way resent the 2011 team because it goes against their narrative of what true Giants football should be. You continue to amaze me on this... and disappoint me. 10-6? Prehistoric? Were you even a speck in the Universe in 1990? Or, old enough to understand a professional game. They are slightly bigger and stronger today, but relatively the men are equals and the game is the same. There are few plays on offense, or few defensive schemes today that were not run back then, or even in the 60;s. Just like the NBA game has become a game of 3 poi9nters, they pass more in the NFL in today's game. But you still cover a man and block and tackle. The WR's don't have any newly conceived routes to run that weren't run in the past. The offensive line still needs to block and the defense tries to tackle. Please, don't preach about something you didn't experience. Just because you can't appreciate the game then, don't call it prehistoric. It was the football that the NFL had to offer, and in 1990 it had evolved from 30 years earlier, in 1960..... and it has evolved in the 30 years since then. But, the teams today still win with defense, as I proved to you was the case in the last 7 games for the Giants in 2011. If you consider every single SB game ever played you will fine that more often the team that had the better defense that year won the SB.. Teams with a good offense usually benefitted from a good defense because they got the ball more often in good field position. That will never change. AND, if you evaluate the last 6-7 games of 2011 you will see that it absolutely was the defense that carried us. m Forget your bull crap about how average they were during the regular season. They had the best defense in thise last 6 games, AMEN, and if you had paid attention you would have noticed that the defense came into it's own the very first game after the DB's begged Fewell to go to a man to man. So, forget about the first 14 games when we were 7-7. We won our last 6 games with defense and if you deny that you have totally lost any cred I ever thought you had. So, I'm sick of this ridiculous banter with you continuing on about today's superior game and today's high powered offenses and how the game has changed. Defense first and the rest will take care of itself with a decent offense. I didn't bother to read this word salad and deal with your condescending tone other than you ASSume I wasn't around I'm 50 thank you..I also lived though the horror of the 90s when we were still a prehistoric offense and was nothing more than Rodney Hampton while the rest of the league evolved.. And I'm sorry that you have such low standards that you want just a decent offense How about a modern high scoring offense and a dominant defense I can't come to wrap my head around why so many Giants fans despise the concept of this team having a great offense and try to spin that the team never had or won with a great offense Do me a favor Hit the block button if you think my posts are ridiculous,because I now think likewise of yours
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Post by Zimonami on Mar 5, 2020 16:23:42 GMT -5
You continue to amaze me on this... and disappoint me. 10-6? Prehistoric? Were you even a speck in the Universe in 1990? Or, old enough to understand a professional game. They are slightly bigger and stronger today, but relatively the men are equals and the game is the same. There are few plays on offense, or few defensive schemes today that were not run back then, or even in the 60;s. Just like the NBA game has become a game of 3 poi9nters, they pass more in the NFL in today's game. But you still cover a man and block and tackle. The WR's don't have any newly conceived routes to run that weren't run in the past. The offensive line still needs to block and the defense tries to tackle. Please, don't preach about something you didn't experience. Just because you can't appreciate the game then, don't call it prehistoric. It was the football that the NFL had to offer, and in 1990 it had evolved from 30 years earlier, in 1960..... and it has evolved in the 30 years since then. But, the teams today still win with defense, as I proved to you was the case in the last 7 games for the Giants in 2011. If you consider every single SB game ever played you will fine that more often the team that had the better defense that year won the SB.. Teams with a good offense usually benefitted from a good defense because they got the ball more often in good field position. That will never change. AND, if you evaluate the last 6-7 games of 2011 you will see that it absolutely was the defense that carried us. m Forget your bull crap about how average they were during the regular season. They had the best defense in thise last 6 games, AMEN, and if you had paid attention you would have noticed that the defense came into it's own the very first game after the DB's begged Fewell to go to a man to man. So, forget about the first 14 games when we were 7-7. We won our last 6 games with defense and if you deny that you have totally lost any cred I ever thought you had. So, I'm sick of this ridiculous banter with you continuing on about today's superior game and today's high powered offenses and how the game has changed. Defense first and the rest will take care of itself with a decent offense. I didn't bother to read this word salad and deal with your condescending tone other than you ASSume I wasn't around I'm 50 thank you..I also lived though the horror of the 90s when we were still a prehistoric offense and was nothing more than Rodney Hampton while the rest of the league evolved.. And I'm sorry that you have such low standards that you want just a decent offense How about a modern high scoring offense and a dominant defense I can't come to wrap my head around why so many Giants fans despise the concept of this team having a great offense and try to spin that the team never had or won with a great offense Do me a favor Hit the block button if you think my posts are ridiculous,because I now think likewise of yours zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Post by Zimonami on Mar 5, 2020 16:41:11 GMT -5
Now that I have fallen asleep from your last post, let me throw out the olive branch. I have always enjoyed and appreciated your posts, and agreed with most... so, we'll agree to put this one to bed and continue being Giant friends.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 5, 2020 17:10:36 GMT -5
Nevermind that our offense carried the team in 2011,actually our passing game carried the team that year and through the playoffs... But The revisionist dogma strikes again 1) Did that offense involve a 1st round stud LT? No it had a 2nd round pick starting. 2) Are you really saying the D didn't win us that SB? The Pats averaged 32 a game, we held them to 17. The O carried them in the regular season, almost 25 points per game. In the playoffs they got to their average 1 game. Mean while in the other 3 games the D held our opponents to 2, 17 and 17.
So yes even in 2011 our team was built on a non 1st round LT and a killer defense.
OL in 2011 draft position - LT 2nd, LG 5th, C 2nd, RG 2nd, RT 3rd
Killer pass rush and good cover guys, though. We had arguably the worst linebackers in the league in the 07 and 11 super bowls, especially 07. Boley was ok in 11, but pierce was flat out awful by 2007.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 17:21:30 GMT -5
1) Did that offense involve a 1st round stud LT? No it had a 2nd round pick starting. 2) Are you really saying the D didn't win us that SB? The Pats averaged 32 a game, we held them to 17. The O carried them in the regular season, almost 25 points per game. In the playoffs they got to their average 1 game. Mean while in the other 3 games the D held our opponents to 2, 17 and 17.
So yes even in 2011 our team was built on a non 1st round LT and a killer defense.
OL in 2011 draft position - LT 2nd, LG 5th, C 2nd, RG 2nd, RT 3rd
Killer pass rush and good cover guys, though. We had arguably the worst linebackers in the league in the 07 and 11 super bowls, especially 07. Boley was ok in 11, but pierce was flat out awful by 2007. 2007 was Pierce's last good year.(remember him sniffing out then somehow getting through 3 blocks and singlehandedly wiping out that screen vs Green Bay in the Championship game ..2008 was when the decline started
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Post by imgrate on Mar 5, 2020 17:30:00 GMT -5
Killer pass rush and good cover guys, though. We had arguably the worst linebackers in the league in the 07 and 11 super bowls, especially 07. Boley was ok in 11, but pierce was flat out awful by 2007. 2007 was Pierce's last good year.(remember him sniffing out then somehow getting through 3 blocks and singlehandedly wiping out that screen vs Green Bay in the Championship game ..2008 was when the decline started That one play was great sure, I just remember him being pretty bad that year.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 18:07:08 GMT -5
We had the 32nx ranked running game that year.... All I'm trying to get across was that the 2011 was not defensive minded defense first team that a certain segment of our fan base seems to always whitewash If anything it was a typical modern NFL championship team that scored points and put up yards and played just enough defense at the right time to win,and not a prehistoric type team built to win 10-6 games only like in 1990 and that same segment of fans want us to go back to and in a way resent the 2011 team because it goes against their narrative of what true Giants football should be. You continue to amaze me on this... and disappoint me. 10-6? Prehistoric? Were you even a speck in the Universe in 1990? Or, old enough to understand a professional game. They are slightly bigger and stronger today, but relatively the men are equals and the game is the same. There are few plays on offense, or few defensive schemes today that were not run back then, or even in the 60;s. Just like the NBA game has become a game of 3 poi9nters, they pass more in the NFL in today's game. But you still cover a man and block and tackle. The WR's don't have any newly conceived routes to run that weren't run in the past. The offensive line still needs to block and the defense tries to tackle. Please, don't preach about something you didn't experience. Just because you can't appreciate the game then, don't call it prehistoric. It was the football that the NFL had to offer, and in 1990 it had evolved from 30 years earlier, in 1960..... and it has evolved in the 30 years since then. But, the teams today still win with defense, as I proved to you was the case in the last 7 games for the Giants in 2011. If you consider every single SB game ever played you will fine that more often the team that had the better defense that year won the SB.. Teams with a good offense usually benefitted from a good defense because they got the ball more often in good field position. That will never change. AND, if you evaluate the last 6-7 games of 2011 you will see that it absolutely was the defense that carried us. m Forget your bull crap about how average they were during the regular season. They had the best defense in thise last 6 games, AMEN, and if you had paid attention you would have noticed that the defense came into it's own the very first game after the DB's begged Fewell to go to a man to man. So, forget about the first 14 games when we were 7-7. We won our last 6 games with defense and if you deny that you have totally lost any cred I ever thought you had. So, I'm sick of this ridiculous banter with you continuing on about today's superior game and today's high powered offenses and how the game has changed. Defense first and the rest will take care of itself with a decent offense. Dude, they did get hot at the right time. I remember being frustrated as shit with that 2011 team. They were booty most of the year and I think we made it in with a 9-7 record, didn’t we? Yeah, that was NOT one of my favorite teams we put together. I tend to blame it on Fewell.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2020 18:10:02 GMT -5
You continue to amaze me on this... and disappoint me. 10-6? Prehistoric? Were you even a speck in the Universe in 1990? Or, old enough to understand a professional game. They are slightly bigger and stronger today, but relatively the men are equals and the game is the same. There are few plays on offense, or few defensive schemes today that were not run back then, or even in the 60;s. Just like the NBA game has become a game of 3 poi9nters, they pass more in the NFL in today's game. But you still cover a man and block and tackle. The WR's don't have any newly conceived routes to run that weren't run in the past. The offensive line still needs to block and the defense tries to tackle. Please, don't preach about something you didn't experience. Just because you can't appreciate the game then, don't call it prehistoric. It was the football that the NFL had to offer, and in 1990 it had evolved from 30 years earlier, in 1960..... and it has evolved in the 30 years since then. But, the teams today still win with defense, as I proved to you was the case in the last 7 games for the Giants in 2011. If you consider every single SB game ever played you will fine that more often the team that had the better defense that year won the SB.. Teams with a good offense usually benefitted from a good defense because they got the ball more often in good field position. That will never change. AND, if you evaluate the last 6-7 games of 2011 you will see that it absolutely was the defense that carried us. m Forget your bull crap about how average they were during the regular season. They had the best defense in thise last 6 games, AMEN, and if you had paid attention you would have noticed that the defense came into it's own the very first game after the DB's begged Fewell to go to a man to man. So, forget about the first 14 games when we were 7-7. We won our last 6 games with defense and if you deny that you have totally lost any cred I ever thought you had. So, I'm sick of this ridiculous banter with you continuing on about today's superior game and today's high powered offenses and how the game has changed. Defense first and the rest will take care of itself with a decent offense. I didn't bother to read this word salad and deal with your condescending tone other than you ASSume I wasn't around I'm 50 thank you..I also lived though the horror of the 90s when we were still a prehistoric offense and was nothing more than Rodney Hampton while the rest of the league evolved.. And I'm sorry that you have such low standards that you want just a decent offense How about a modern high scoring offense and a dominant defense I can't come to wrap my head around why so many Giants fans despise the concept of this team having a great offense and try to spin that the team never had or won with a great offense Do me a favor Hit the block button if you think my posts are ridiculous,because I now think likewise of yours I’m almost 50 also man. I gotta say, 2011 was not one of my favorite teams either. I didn’t like the defense and Fewell lucked out. But he was exposed after that season.
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Post by Kase1 on Mar 5, 2020 18:11:33 GMT -5
I find it funny that people make ridiculous claims like, "we didnt have good LB/WR/OTs/CBs/etc" when we won a super bowl in so and so year, so why get good ones now.
We won in those years in spite of having sub-par LB/WR/TE/etc's. Its not like thats the reason we won. Call me crazy, but shouldnt we strive to have the best at every position???
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 5, 2020 18:36:51 GMT -5
I find it funny that people make ridiculous claims like, "we didnt have good LB/WR/OTs/CBs/etc" when we won a super bowl in so and so year, so why get good ones now. We won in those years in spite of having sub-par LB/WR/TE/etc's. Its not like thats the reason we won. Call me crazy, but shouldnt we strive to have the best at every position???Yeah, but that is about as likely as striving to eliminate all crime. Yes, it should be the goal, but it's never going to happen.
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Post by Zimonami on Mar 5, 2020 18:38:38 GMT -5
You continue to amaze me on this... and disappoint me. 10-6? Prehistoric? Were you even a speck in the Universe in 1990? Or, old enough to understand a professional game. They are slightly bigger and stronger today, but relatively the men are equals and the game is the same. There are few plays on offense, or few defensive schemes today that were not run back then, or even in the 60;s. Just like the NBA game has become a game of 3 poi9nters, they pass more in the NFL in today's game. But you still cover a man and block and tackle. The WR's don't have any newly conceived routes to run that weren't run in the past. The offensive line still needs to block and the defense tries to tackle. Please, don't preach about something you didn't experience. Just because you can't appreciate the game then, don't call it prehistoric. It was the football that the NFL had to offer, and in 1990 it had evolved from 30 years earlier, in 1960..... and it has evolved in the 30 years since then. But, the teams today still win with defense, as I proved to you was the case in the last 7 games for the Giants in 2011. If you consider every single SB game ever played you will fine that more often the team that had the better defense that year won the SB.. Teams with a good offense usually benefitted from a good defense because they got the ball more often in good field position. That will never change. AND, if you evaluate the last 6-7 games of 2011 you will see that it absolutely was the defense that carried us. m Forget your bull crap about how average they were during the regular season. They had the best defense in thise last 6 games, AMEN, and if you had paid attention you would have noticed that the defense came into it's own the very first game after the DB's begged Fewell to go to a man to man. So, forget about the first 14 games when we were 7-7. We won our last 6 games with defense and if you deny that you have totally lost any cred I ever thought you had. So, I'm sick of this ridiculous banter with you continuing on about today's superior game and today's high powered offenses and how the game has changed. Defense first and the rest will take care of itself with a decent offense. Dude, they did get hot at the right time. I remember being frustrated as shit with that 2011 team. They were booty most of the year and I think we made it in with a 9-7 record, didn’t we? Yeah, that was NOT one of my favorite teams we put together. I tend to blame it on Fewell. It was exactly the same as this past year with Bettchers zone D. They convinced Fewell they would be better in Man, and we suddenly had a solid defense, and it carried us thru the SB. Holding the Pats to 17 was the result. I've been dying to see how good Baker is in a Man, cuz he sure is never going to master the zone. Our DB play in 2019 was a disaster, despite having decent personnel. Hopefully we see something different this season.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 5, 2020 18:39:41 GMT -5
I find it funny that people make ridiculous claims like, "we didnt have good LB/WR/OTs/CBs/etc" when we won a super bowl in so and so year, so why get good ones now. We won in those years in spite of having sub-par LB/WR/TE/etc's. Its not like thats the reason we won. Call me crazy, but shouldnt we strive to have the best at every position??? For sure, and theres lots of different ways to win a super bowl. Back in the day the greatest show on turf rams won and then next year the trent dilfer ravens won. We should try to get best at every position, but it's basically impossible with salary cap, so if you suck across the board (which we kinda do besides interior DL and hopefully QB) then you gotta pick what to get best at first
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 18:42:01 GMT -5
I find it funny that people make ridiculous claims like, "we didnt have good LB/WR/OTs/CBs/etc" when we won a super bowl in so and so year, so why get good ones now. We won in those years in spite of having sub-par LB/WR/TE/etc's. Its not like thats the reason we won. Call me crazy, but shouldnt we strive to have the best at every position??? Narrative People stuck in 1990 are going to try to white wash/change history about 2011 when it was basicly the QB,WRs, JPP,Antrell Rolle and Corey Webster that carried that team even through the playoffs,with the rest of the team chipping in once they beat Dallas week 17. These same people act as though Nicks and Cruz were side notes and didn't contribute other than a catch here and there,and we were carried by Old.school style defense and running the ball,almost like they were watching an alternate reality of what really happened. Fact is that team was horribly flawed.. As far as I'm concerned we only ever had one complete and balanced team on both sides of the ball and that was the 86 team..but even then people conveniently leave out how explosive that offense became once Erheardt decided to feature Mowatt and Bavaro in the passing game to take advantage of major mismatches in a base 12 formation because the receivers weren't getting it done... It's that 1990 season where we had to play a very conservative style of offense because we had no recievers and then Simms went down. It's where this mythical "traditional giants football " myth became what people want. Fact 1. That team was probably the most disciplined and well coached team I have ever seen. They had to be.. Set records for fewest turnovers and fewest penalties against(that record probably never gets broken) Was probably the most fundamentally sound team I have ever seen. They had to be because they didn't have a lot of margin for error,and to be 13-3 playing like this where most games were of the 13-10 variety. They played litteraly a perfect game in the super bowl in every way(no penalties,no turnovers,only the safety against was the only "gaffe") And guess what....playing this old school traditional smash mouth style.. 3 yards to the left and this team becomes nothing more than an irrelevant footnote (-the Giants played a scrappy game but ultimately the firepower and talent of the Bill's had just enough to win it at the end),and "old school traditional smash mouth football " never becomes this 1 year mythical style so many of the old school fans want to go back to,because it did what this style usually does,team comes close but loses in the end. So this "but we never won with good receivers,all our super bowls were won by defensive teams that did just enough on offense to win " bullshit really needs to stop because it shows a lot of ignorance. 100% agreed..just because it happened in the past and in a different era(and if you think about it...even 2007 was a different era than today even though it's still a passing league because back then you still had good o linemen coming out of college and your linebackers could actually tackle without fear of a penalty)does not mean we need to replicate this now. 2011 was a miracle in itself with how horrible that O line was. Our linebackers were a complete joke,we got lucky in the Super Bowl Gronk badly sprained his knee during practice between the AFC championship game and super bowl(was that when it happened?)because we had to hide a very slow Blackburn,and once the team realized Gronk was barely 50% they just stuck Blackburn on him all game because even his slow ass could cover him..and doubled Hernandez (who was starting to singlehandedly destroy us with those 2 TD drives wrapped around halftime)if Gronk is even better 80% that game isn't close I'm afraid. Neglecting any position group,especially the trenches,because we didnt have bla bla bla whether it was 1990 or 2011 ...beyond ignorant And there is a ****ton of ignorance around here lately
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 18:47:35 GMT -5
I find it funny that people make ridiculous claims like, "we didnt have good LB/WR/OTs/CBs/etc" when we won a super bowl in so and so year, so why get good ones now. We won in those years in spite of having sub-par LB/WR/TE/etc's. Its not like thats the reason we won. Call me crazy, but shouldnt we strive to have the best at every position??? For sure, and theres lots of different ways to win a super bowl. Back in the day the greatest show on turf rams won and then next year the trent dilfer ravens won. We should try to get best at every position, but it's basically impossible with salary cap, so if you suck across the board (which we kinda do besides interior DL and hopefully QB) then you gotta pick what to get best at first Easiest way Build up both lines (D line is good if we keep Williams and extend Tomlinson...so put draft resources here in a deep draft for this) We more than likely have a QB... We have a unicorn for a back Probably a nice deep number 2 WR. Make one side great this year in the draft where it is a deep draft to have a lot of young talent....offense Team is competitive Add parts where the free agency class is strong...defense... You get an instant upgrade with 3 or so improvements this way on a young team.. Add some young pieces if a BPA is around later in the draft Team is more competitive Next year...close to a win now window Pay top dollar(we will still have a lot of cap room)for one or 2 top talents on defense and go BPA defense early and often in the draft..... But to me get the o line right asap so at least we can win at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball...get the foundation right
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 18:52:19 GMT -5
I didn't bother to read this word salad and deal with your condescending tone other than you ASSume I wasn't around I'm 50 thank you..I also lived though the horror of the 90s when we were still a prehistoric offense and was nothing more than Rodney Hampton while the rest of the league evolved.. And I'm sorry that you have such low standards that you want just a decent offense How about a modern high scoring offense and a dominant defense I can't come to wrap my head around why so many Giants fans despise the concept of this team having a great offense and try to spin that the team never had or won with a great offense Do me a favor Hit the block button if you think my posts are ridiculous,because I now think likewise of yours I’m almost 50 also man. I gotta say, 2011 was not one of my favorite teams either. I didn’t like the defense and Fewell lucked out. But he was exposed after that season. Defense and O line... That team should have been blown up a week after the parade because let's face it Eli and those recievers basicly carried what should have been a 5-11 team to a division title and the defense decides to nut up after the Dallas win week 17,then the mojo kicked in after the Wild Card round win..... Has a worse linebacker core ever won a super bowl than that one? Worse O line?(Ok maybe Denver vs Carolina only because Carolina's was worse and Von Miller owned that game )
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Mar 5, 2020 20:03:37 GMT -5
doesnt matter how good the LT is he will always be dogged by the fans. I remember they use to call pettigout , i bet even if Jumbo played today the fans would tear into him. They imagine the oline should be close to perfect.
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smitty
Special Teams
Posts: 906
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Post by smitty on Mar 5, 2020 20:15:10 GMT -5
Eli and the passing attack carried us all season in 2011. The D was sub-par most of the regular season, hence Eli’s multiple 4th quarter comeback wins that year.
Giants ran the ball noticably more in the playoffs, but the defense stepped up big time in the tourney. They might have been playing as the top D in the league when it counted.
Being a team game, it is no surprise that the magical run of 2011 required both sides of the ball to execute, and that they both did.
Even back in 2007, the D was better during the regular season, but nothing to brag about. In fact, I believe they gave up 80 points in the first two games. Similarly, the Giants ran the ball well in the playoffs and the D exploded at the same time.
The two Eli era championship seasons were eerily similar if you think about it.
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Post by nygiantsfan1029 on Mar 5, 2020 20:23:13 GMT -5
Killer pass rush and good cover guys, though. We had arguably the worst linebackers in the league in the 07 and 11 super bowls, especially 07. Boley was ok in 11, but pierce was flat out awful by 2007. 2007 was Pierce's last good year.(remember him sniffing out then somehow getting through 3 blocks and singlehandedly wiping out that screen vs Green Bay in the Championship game ..2008 was when the decline started He might’ve been declining but you can’t understate how important he was as the QB of the defense. I forget what year it was but I remember in a cowboy game he saw something in the cowboy offense one play and you hear him say kill kill kill kill and boom if I remember right it ended in a sack or int.
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Post by SG88 on Mar 5, 2020 20:37:57 GMT -5
I find it funny that people make ridiculous claims like, "we didnt have good LB/WR/OTs/CBs/etc" when we won a super bowl in so and so year, so why get good ones now. We won in those years in spite of having sub-par LB/WR/TE/etc's. Its not like thats the reason we won. Call me crazy, but shouldnt we strive to have the best at every position??? Most of those same types of fans also want us to trade some of the few good players that we have on the roster. The Giants have a lot of work to do in getting back to being a good team. I am so tired of losing to Dallas and Philadelphia. Getting back to at least equal footing with those teams are our first step. The best way to do that is attaining and keeping talented players on the roster.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 5, 2020 20:56:18 GMT -5
2007 was Pierce's last good year.(remember him sniffing out then somehow getting through 3 blocks and singlehandedly wiping out that screen vs Green Bay in the Championship game ..2008 was when the decline started He might’ve been declining but you can’t understate how important he was as the QB of the defense. I forget what year it was but I remember in a cowboy game he saw something in the cowboy offense one play and you hear him say kill kill kill kill and boom if I remember right it ended in a sack or int. Playoff game in Dallas. 2nd half
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Post by Kase1 on Mar 7, 2020 5:34:26 GMT -5
For sure, and theres lots of different ways to win a super bowl. Back in the day the greatest show on turf rams won and then next year the trent dilfer ravens won. We should try to get best at every position, but it's basically impossible with salary cap, so if you suck across the board (which we kinda do besides interior DL and hopefully QB) then you gotta pick what to get best at first Easiest way Build up both lines (D line is good if we keep Williams and extend Tomlinson...so put draft resources here in a deep draft for this) We more than likely have a QB... We have a unicorn for a back Probably a nice deep number 2 WR. Make one side great this year in the draft where it is a deep draft to have a lot of young talent....offense Team is competitive Add parts where the free agency class is strong...defense... You get an instant upgrade with 3 or so improvements this way on a young team.. Add some young pieces if a BPA is around later in the draft Team is more competitive Next year...close to a win now window Pay top dollar(we will still have a lot of cap room)for one or 2 top talents on defense and go BPA defense early and often in the draft..... But to me get the o line right asap so at least we can win at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball...get the foundation right Couldnt have said it better myself. The strength of the free agency is defense, between Yannick, Littleton, Dupree, Jones, and Fowler, there are a few pieces that would be a tremendous addition. In the draft go both, but focus more on offense. Get a future building block at LT, get a C if we miss out on McGovern, get a WR, maybe even a TE.
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Post by stroswift10nyg on Mar 8, 2020 0:56:43 GMT -5
I get it but Simmons is that good and the Giants need defense lol
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