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Post by IrishMike on Mar 7, 2020 19:32:33 GMT -5
So in a recent post I was introduced to the Pass Rush Win Rate statistic by a friendly poster (thanks Aris). It's an interesting stat in deed. I wanted to know some of the numbers behind it which lead me to using the old googler. Which lead me to another stat. The Pass Block Win Rate. Since says how often a player sustains his block for 2.5 seconds or more.
Jack Conklin is #8 OT in the league at sustaining his blocks. Call me crazy but I don't think a guy that is terrible at pass blocking would be 8th in the league. Notice no Giants on that list, which means he is a huge upgrade in run blocking and still a sizeable upgrade in pass blocking. Also notice the other Titans, Lewan, is on the list which can explain why a career journeyman QB was suddenly able to play so well.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 7, 2020 19:57:49 GMT -5
So in a recent post I was introduced to the Pass Rush Win Rate statistic by a friendly poster (thanks Aris). It's an interesting stat in deed. I wanted to know some of the numbers behind it which lead me to using the old googler. Which lead me to another stat. The Pass Block Win Rate. Since says how often a player sustains his block for 2.5 seconds or more.
Jack Conklin is #8 OT in the league at sustaining his blocks. Call me crazy but I don't think a guy that is terrible at pass blocking would be 8th in the league. Notice no Giants on that list, which means he is a huge upgrade in run blocking and still a sizeable upgrade in pass blocking. Also notice the other Titans, Lewan, is on the list which can explain why a career journeyman QB was suddenly able to play so well.
I'd like to see how these stats were determined. How often did he have to do it compared to others, for instance? Were snaps were he got help included? How often did he face above average rushers? Not calling bullshit, just wondering.
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Post by imgrate on Mar 7, 2020 19:59:49 GMT -5
Could be our new Kareem McKenzie
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 20:08:18 GMT -5
So in a recent post I was introduced to the Pass Rush Win Rate statistic by a friendly poster (thanks Aris). It's an interesting stat in deed. I wanted to know some of the numbers behind it which lead me to using the old googler. Which lead me to another stat. The Pass Block Win Rate. Since says how often a player sustains his block for 2.5 seconds or more.
Jack Conklin is #8 OT in the league at sustaining his blocks. Call me crazy but I don't think a guy that is terrible at pass blocking would be 8th in the league. Notice no Giants on that list, which means he is a huge upgrade in run blocking and still a sizeable upgrade in pass blocking. Also notice the other Titans, Lewan, is on the list which can explain why a career journeyman QB was suddenly able to play so well.
Uh oh...I have opened up a can of worms, bwhaha ...I shall look at the PFF more closely, as their elite suggests Conklin is not a good pass blocker. But, better yet...I am off for the week...shall look at some video. If he is a better pass blocker then advertised, and my eyes say as such...I'll again be on his wagon as I was when he was entering the draft.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2020 20:13:15 GMT -5
Time to look more closely...good find Mike
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 7, 2020 20:26:20 GMT -5
Time to look more closely...good find Mike It was not what I was looking for, was hoping to find numbers behind the PRWR stat. I stumbled on this graphic and was some what surprised to see Conklin there and Constanzo not there.
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Post by TCHOF on Mar 7, 2020 20:31:29 GMT -5
Could be our new Kareem McKenzie Not even close
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 7, 2020 20:31:58 GMT -5
I'd like to see how these stats were determined. How often did he have to do it compared to others, for instance? Were snaps were he got help included? How often did he face above average rushers? Not calling bullshit, just wondering. It comes from next gen stats but their website is kind of crappy. I honestly don't know what's included. My guess is that it is all included. He definitely had less pass blocks than most other players, Titans were 31st in attempts. I'd still say it's pretty damn good if your rate is that high, even if your total number is less.
The main thing about this stat is that Conklin got a reputation over this off-season as being terrible at pass blocking, I think in large part to the way the Titans played in the playoffs, but this data suggests that he is at least not horrible in pass blocking.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 7, 2020 20:39:37 GMT -5
I'd like to see how these stats were determined. How often did he have to do it compared to others, for instance? Were snaps were he got help included? How often did he face above average rushers? Not calling bullshit, just wondering. It comes from next gen stats but their website is kind of crappy. I honestly don't know what's included. My guess is that it is all included. He definitely had less pass blocks than most other players, Titans were 31st in attempts. I'd still say it's pretty damn good if your rate is that high, even if your total number is less. The main thing about this stat is that Conklin got a reputation over this off-season as being terrible at pass blocking, I think in large part to the way the Titans played in the playoffs, but this data suggests that he is at least not horrible in pass blocking.
Well, we all know the Twain quote on statistics. What has me wondering are the PFF stats saying he had fewer "true" pass plays and got help more often than others - if I had the subscriptions to these sites I would probably waste too much time digging into these numbers: it is a weakness of mine Putting all the numbers together, figuring out how they interact and analyzing them is kinda fun.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 7, 2020 20:49:12 GMT -5
Well, we all know the Twain quote on statistics. What has me wondering are the PFF stats saying he had fewer "true" pass plays and got help more often than others - if I had the subscriptions to these sites I would probably waste too much time digging into these numbers: it is a weakness of mine Putting all the numbers together, figuring out how they interact and analyzing them is kinda fun. Yeah I won't get a subscription for that exact reason. I don't buy too much into most of these stats. The "true" pass stat being one of them. It's all about how a team chooses to use a player. This is not the Peyton Manning Colts that will pass every down and sprinkle in a run. I have heard he received help more often than other players too, but that stat usually equates to one or two extra chips a game, nothing super dramatic or enough to really alter someones opinion. If you think he is bad you would use that to say "see told you" and if you think he is good you would ignore it.
It's always fun and interesting to see a new stat though. They can of course be used to prove anything you want, just have to dig deep enough.
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 7, 2020 22:56:26 GMT -5
So in a recent post I was introduced to the Pass Rush Win Rate statistic by a friendly poster (thanks Aris). It's an interesting stat in deed. I wanted to know some of the numbers behind it which lead me to using the old googler. Which lead me to another stat. The Pass Block Win Rate. Since says how often a player sustains his block for 2.5 seconds or more.
Jack Conklin is #8 OT in the league at sustaining his blocks. Call me crazy but I don't think a guy that is terrible at pass blocking would be 8th in the league. Notice no Giants on that list, which means he is a huge upgrade in run blocking and still a sizeable upgrade in pass blocking. Also notice the other Titans, Lewan, is on the list which can explain why a career journeyman QB was suddenly able to play so well.
I'd like to see how these stats were determined. How often did he have to do it compared to others, for instance? Were snaps were he got help included? How often did he face above average rushers? Not calling bullshit, just wondering. Me too. I'm on my phone, but can I assume this is another pff stat?
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Post by piddy283 on Mar 7, 2020 23:20:36 GMT -5
So in a recent post I was introduced to the Pass Rush Win Rate statistic by a friendly poster (thanks Aris). It's an interesting stat in deed. I wanted to know some of the numbers behind it which lead me to using the old googler. Which lead me to another stat. The Pass Block Win Rate. Since says how often a player sustains his block for 2.5 seconds or more.
Jack Conklin is #8 OT in the league at sustaining his blocks. Call me crazy but I don't think a guy that is terrible at pass blocking would be 8th in the league. Notice no Giants on that list, which means he is a huge upgrade in run blocking and still a sizeable upgrade in pass blocking. Also notice the other Titans, Lewan, is on the list which can explain why a career journeyman QB was suddenly able to play so well.
I can't say I've watched a ton on Conklin. I also think he'd likely be an upgrade to who we have in place, currently. When I hear sustained blocks, I tend to think run blocking. Could be wrong there, but if true this isn't surprising as Conklin is said to be a mauler in the run game No matter, two things I've read that scare me when it comes to Conklin....1) Conklin is at the very bottom of the list....and I mean very bottom (#49)....when it comes pass protection in true pass sets. 2) I've also read he receives more help from double teams and chips than most other OT's (no specific ranking). Would he be an upgrade? Probably. Like other players in FA, I won't necessarily be upset if we go after Conklin, but I think we have better options.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 7, 2020 23:29:38 GMT -5
So in a recent post I was introduced to the Pass Rush Win Rate statistic by a friendly poster (thanks Aris). It's an interesting stat in deed. I wanted to know some of the numbers behind it which lead me to using the old googler. Which lead me to another stat. The Pass Block Win Rate. Since says how often a player sustains his block for 2.5 seconds or more.
Jack Conklin is #8 OT in the league at sustaining his blocks. Call me crazy but I don't think a guy that is terrible at pass blocking would be 8th in the league. Notice no Giants on that list, which means he is a huge upgrade in run blocking and still a sizeable upgrade in pass blocking. Also notice the other Titans, Lewan, is on the list which can explain why a career journeyman QB was suddenly able to play so well.
I can't say I've watched a ton on Conklin. I also think he'd likely be an upgrade to who we have in place, currently. When I hear sustained blocks, I tend to think run blocking. Could be wrong there, but if true this isn't surprising as Conklin is said to be a mauler in the run game No matter, two things I've read that scare me when it comes to Conklin....1) Conklin is at the very bottom of the list....and I mean very bottom (#49)....when it comes pass protection in true pass sets. 2) I've also read he receives more help from double teams and chips than most other OT's (no specific ranking). Would he be an upgrade? Probably. Like other players in FA, I won't necessarily be upset if we go after Conklin, but I think we have better options. One of the fab 4 on a rookie deal
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 7, 2020 23:58:18 GMT -5
I'd like to see how these stats were determined. How often did he have to do it compared to others, for instance? Were snaps were he got help included? How often did he face above average rushers? Not calling bullshit, just wondering. Me too. I'm on my phone, but can I assume this is another pff stat? Not a PFF stat, it's next Gen from the NFL. It's simply did he block his man for 2.5 seconds or not.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 8, 2020 0:17:34 GMT -5
I can't say I've watched a ton on Conklin. I also think he'd likely be an upgrade to who we have in place, currently. When I hear sustained blocks, I tend to think run blocking. Could be wrong there, but if true this isn't surprising as Conklin is said to be a mauler in the run game No matter, two things I've read that scare me when it comes to Conklin....1) Conklin is at the very bottom of the list....and I mean very bottom (#49)....when it comes pass protection in true pass sets. 2) I've also read he receives more help from double teams and chips than most other OT's (no specific ranking). Would he be an upgrade? Probably. Like other players in FA, I won't necessarily be upset if we go after Conklin, but I think we have better options. I've been trying to figure out where all the "Conklin stinks at pass pro" talk came from but I believe there are two things. 1) The Titans were great at running the ball and when in the world was watching (playoffs) they ran like crazy and didn't pass. 2) The PFF stats of "true pass sets" and chips. I think both of those are garbage stats because it provides zero context. That could simply be the system that the Titans ran to give their journeyman QB as much time as possible back there on the few passes he was required to throw.
No I think we can agree no player is perfect and when it comes to free agent OL I think he is about as good as we can expect to find. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but still a very good player.
Here is a pretty good (very long) video on him. I skipped all the run plays but it really shows how well he pass blocks, regardless of any stats.
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Post by GameTime on Mar 8, 2020 6:33:58 GMT -5
you dont need to break down al kinds of stats. If one sports stats site says he is not a good pass blocker and another says other wise then you figure it in the middle somewhere.
Also it doesnt take much to be an improvement over the Giants OL.
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Post by Fletch842 on Mar 8, 2020 7:13:24 GMT -5
It comes from next gen stats but their website is kind of crappy. I honestly don't know what's included. My guess is that it is all included. He definitely had less pass blocks than most other players, Titans were 31st in attempts. I'd still say it's pretty damn good if your rate is that high, even if your total number is less. The main thing about this stat is that Conklin got a reputation over this off-season as being terrible at pass blocking, I think in large part to the way the Titans played in the playoffs, but this data suggests that he is at least not horrible in pass blocking.
Well, we all know the Twain quote on statistics. What has me wondering are the PFF stats saying he had fewer "true" pass plays and got help more often than others - if I had the subscriptions to these sites I would probably waste too much time digging into these numbers: it is a weakness of mine Putting all the numbers together, figuring out how they interact and analyzing them is kinda fun. Interesting, I always thought that was from Disraeli, so I just googled it. Apparently, it was Twain himself that started that, rumor but there is no evidence he ever said it. Looks like Twain was being humble. Learn something new every day. Now back to the thread!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 7:29:34 GMT -5
Haha...I actually watched this when it came out.
Kase and I were in a good debate on Decker vs Conklin...I was so on this guys bandwagon...others in the draft section were on the Floyd bandwagon. Oddly enough, similar to this year with Simmons vs one of the OT's. Of course the entire NFL knew we had those two at the top of our boards, and two teams jumped us, and the rest is Apple history.
Conklin does discuss his pass blocking weaknesses on this video, and working at the anchor ect...nice stuff.
For the record, Kase won the debate as Decker is a starting LT for the Lions, and Conklin plays RT...close to a tie, but I did not believe Decker had the film to even be a starter...and though Conklin was a LT.
Trying to find some NFL film on Conklin vs tons of college......anybody?
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 8, 2020 8:14:08 GMT -5
you dont need to break down al kinds of stats. If one sports stats site says he is not a good pass blocker and another says other wise then you figure it in the middle somewhere. Also it doesnt take much to be an improvement over the Giants OL. There in is my point. What ever Conklin is he is a much better player than Remmers. It would be a huge upgrade in the run game and it would be an upgrade (opinions vary how much) in the pass game. If we are going OT at 4 it will be for a LT, we still need to improve our RT position though. I like Gates but at this point he is depth and nothing more.
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Post by bringsimmsback on Mar 8, 2020 8:19:36 GMT -5
Well, we all know the Twain quote on statistics. What has me wondering are the PFF stats saying he had fewer "true" pass plays and got help more often than others - if I had the subscriptions to these sites I would probably waste too much time digging into these numbers: it is a weakness of mine Putting all the numbers together, figuring out how they interact and analyzing them is kinda fun. Interesting, I always thought that was from Disraeli, so I just googled it. Apparently, it was Twain himself that started that, rumor but there is no evidence he ever said it. Looks like Twain was being humble. Learn something new every day. Now back to the thread!! Wow - now that you just pointed that out, I remember it being pointed out to me before. Shows how persistent misinformation can be
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Post by DandyDon on Mar 8, 2020 8:38:12 GMT -5
Well, we all know the Twain quote on statistics. What has me wondering are the PFF stats saying he had fewer "true" pass plays and got help more often than others - if I had the subscriptions to these sites I would probably waste too much time digging into these numbers: it is a weakness of mine Putting all the numbers together, figuring out how they interact and analyzing them is kinda fun. Interesting, I always thought that was from Disraeli, so I just googled it. Apparently, it was Twain himself that started that, rumor but there is no evidence he ever said it. Looks like Twain was being humble. Learn something new every day. Now back to the thread!! I like these quotes: "Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please.." "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. "
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Post by TEM on Mar 8, 2020 9:03:19 GMT -5
If he is # 8 on the list . Why is he not tagged or extended with Tennessee having 48 million in cap space. What do the Titans see in him that enables them to allow him to walk? No matter what the pundits say or where he is rated on some list. This fact does not change . A team that just played in the AFC Championship game seems not to want his services anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2020 9:37:42 GMT -5
If he is # 8 on the list . Why is he not tagged or extended with Tennessee having 48 million in cap space. What do the Titans see in him that enables them to allow him to walk? No matter what the pundits say or where he is rated on some list. This fact does not change . A team that just played in the AFC Championship game seems not to want his services anymore. Could be a lot of factors...money probably being tops on the list. I'm guessing the hardest part of any management in the NFL being the cap situation fluid with the contracts, and scheme and direction of the team. That seems a tad more difficult then the Yankees signing stats to the most money and paying the luxury tax each year... He's going to command 17 million a year as a right tackle...I have just watched some tape on him, and he's not as bad a pass blocker as some thought, BUT, agree with your previous posts, no way is he a left tackle. That is a lot of cash to spend, and the Titans are rumored to be in the market for a Clowney...they might have other options at RT...have not delved too far into their team, but I would guess it's the money these tackles get now. He's a very good blocking tackle on the run game....but at 17 million?
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Post by McCherry on Mar 8, 2020 9:39:25 GMT -5
He better be #8 on the list for the money he’s getting.
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Post by TEM on Mar 8, 2020 9:49:36 GMT -5
If he is # 8 on the list . Why is he not tagged or extended with Tennessee having 48 million in cap space. What do the Titans see in him that enables them to allow him to walk? No matter what the pundits say or where he is rated on some list. This fact does not change . A team that just played in the AFC Championship game seems not to want his services anymore. Could be a lot of factors...money probably being tops on the list. I'm guessing the hardest part of any management in the NFL being the cap situation fluid with the contracts, and scheme and direction of the team. That seems a tad more difficult then the Yankees signing stats to the most money and paying the luxury tax each year... He's going to command 17 million a year as a right tackle...I have just watched some tape on him, and he's not as bad a pass blocker as some thought, BUT, agree with your previous posts, no way is he a left tackle. That is a lot of cash to spend, and the Titans are rumored to be in the market for a Clowney...they might have other options at RT...have not delved too far into their team, but I would guess it's the money these tackles get now. He's a very good blocking tackle on the run game....but at 17 million? This is the way I see it. You have a good OT , pass rusher, Corner. QB. You don't let them walk. It is the GM's job to find a way. That is what separates an NFL GM form us. Unless the players bark is bigger than his bite. Example: Josh Norman.
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Post by hadenough on Mar 8, 2020 10:38:50 GMT -5
Certainly interesting.
Also interesting...Whitworth is #2. I think he's the oldest T in the league, right?
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Post by TEM on Mar 8, 2020 10:56:16 GMT -5
Certainly interesting. Also interesting...Whitworth is #2. I think he's the oldest T in the league, right? He beats Jason Peters by 39 days. Both are 38
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 8, 2020 10:58:31 GMT -5
Certainly interesting. Also interesting...Whitworth is #2. I think he's the oldest T in the league, right? I remember the debates here a few years ago about whether we should sign him or not. Looks like it would have been a good signing. They got 3 good years out of him. Dude is a beast even with his walker lol.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 8, 2020 11:23:49 GMT -5
Certainly interesting. Also interesting...Whitworth is #2. I think he's the oldest T in the league, right? Yes and he's played great on this contract of his. Last year was the first year I thought his game might have taken a step back. Despite any stats. We should have signed him 3 years ago and so many here were afraid of his age. Water under the bridge I guess.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 8, 2020 12:21:37 GMT -5
Certainly interesting. Also interesting...Whitworth is #2. I think he's the oldest T in the league, right? Yes and he's played great on this contract of his. Last year was the first year I thought his game might have taken a step back. Despite any stats. We should have signed him 3 years ago and so many here were afraid of his age. Water under the bridge I guess. In the grand scheme of things Whitworth would have been like putting a band aid on a lepper on that team....and knowing our luck he tears a pec in training camp that year
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