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Post by jimmieray on Mar 25, 2020 9:13:08 GMT -5
I think they got it right this time: 1. The hiring of Joe Judge was probably the most significant move so far. I have very high hopes for him and his staff. 2. I like the FA moves; just with those the team is already better than last year. 3. The rookies from last year now have a season's worth of experience to build from. 4. Saquon Barkley will be coming into his 3rd season 100% healthy. The final piece is to not screw up the draft. Absolute priority is the get OL, then pass rush. That HAS to be done. If it is, and I think it will be (they can't be that blind to not see it at this point) then I think we absolutely have a winning season. Sure, but what are the chances of acquiring a bonafied pass rusher in this upcoming draft?
It would seem the draft will go OT, C, WR, for at least the first 3 picks. I think the defensive personnel that we see on paper right now is basically going to be it, with resigning of a current player or two on the horizon.
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Post by ocgiant on Mar 25, 2020 9:14:35 GMT -5
Giants need to win the first game of the season for a modicum of excitement towards a potentially winning season .........and means we don't give a crap about wins or loss's in "pre season" ,that didn't turn out to well for us last season did it? Scrimmages would be better way, make it like spring baseball and should be played where the teams practice give the fans an up close experience. Since you only get to see a glimpse of the starters while everyone else fights for a spot on the team. Just losing the first game of the regular season never bodes well setting the tone for the season
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Mar 25, 2020 9:15:23 GMT -5
I think they got it right this time: 1. The hiring of Joe Judge was probably the most significant move so far. I have very high hopes for him and his staff. 2. I like the FA moves; just with those the team is already better than last year. 3. The rookies from last year now have a season's worth of experience to build from. 4. Saquon Barkley will be coming into his 3rd season 100% healthy. The final piece is to not screw up the draft. Absolute priority is the get OL, then pass rush. That HAS to be done. If it is, and I think it will be (they can't be that blind to not see it at this point) then I think we absolutely have a winning season. Sure, but what are the chances of acquiring a bonafied pass rusher in this upcoming draft?
It would seem the draft will go OT, C, WR, for at least the first 3 picks. I think the defensive personnel that we see on paper right now is basically going to be it, with resigning of a current player or two on the horizon.
Hater.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2020 9:21:48 GMT -5
I think they got it right this time: 1. The hiring of Joe Judge was probably the most significant move so far. I have very high hopes for him and his staff. 2. I like the FA moves; just with those the team is already better than last year. 3. The rookies from last year now have a season's worth of experience to build from. 4. Saquon Barkley will be coming into his 3rd season 100% healthy. The final piece is to not screw up the draft. Absolute priority is the get OL, then pass rush. That HAS to be done. If it is, and I think it will be (they can't be that blind to not see it at this point) then I think we absolutely have a winning season. Sure, but what are the chances of acquiring a bonafied pass rusher in this upcoming draft?
It would seem the draft will go OT, C, WR, for at least the first 3 picks. I think the defensive personnel that we see on paper right now is basically going to be it, with resigning of a current player or two on the horizon.
We're not...unless Young falls to us. Not a deep draft for edge players...that was last years draft. I am just hoping that people understand if we draft Simmons we're getting at best a Derwin James (who is a GREAT player) and not a Von Miller. I don't see us going for the coverage LB until middle rounds...this years draft pile has quite a few decent coverage backers... Clowney is a player that requires 2 blockers, still hovering out there ...might make the rest of the DL look better...just saying.
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 25, 2020 9:23:22 GMT -5
Sure, but what are the chances of acquiring a bonafied pass rusher in this upcoming draft?
It would seem the draft will go OT, C, WR, for at least the first 3 picks. I think the defensive personnel that we see on paper right now is basically going to be it, with resigning of a current player or two on the horizon.
Hater. Don't forget, we have a top secret Tazmanian Devil that might find a way to make the roster.
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 25, 2020 9:25:49 GMT -5
Sure, but what are the chances of acquiring a bonafied pass rusher in this upcoming draft?
It would seem the draft will go OT, C, WR, for at least the first 3 picks. I think the defensive personnel that we see on paper right now is basically going to be it, with resigning of a current player or two on the horizon.
We're not...unless Young falls to us. Not a deep draft for edge players...that was last years draft. I am just hoping that people understand if we draft Simmons we're getting at best a Derwin James (who is a GREAT player) and not a Von Miller. I don't see us going for the coverage LB until middle rounds...this years draft pile has quite a few decent coverage backers... Clowney is a player that requires 2 blockers, still hovering out there ...might make the rest of the DL look better...just saying. My feeling is that none of those 3 names winds up on our team, but petition away my man.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Mar 25, 2020 9:42:46 GMT -5
Don't forget, we have a top secret Tazmanian Devil that might find a way to make the roster. I'm hoping Leonard Williams gets 37 sacks.
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Post by Jomo on Mar 25, 2020 9:53:59 GMT -5
Duplicate
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Post by Jomo on Mar 25, 2020 9:54:20 GMT -5
Coaching matters, teaching counts for a lot. Do Judge, Garrett and the rest move us forward? We have improved the roster a bit. We are in a good spot, draft wise. Some of the young guys should be expected to improve. I am still in a "show me" mode however.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2020 10:05:57 GMT -5
Don't forget, we have a top secret Tazmanian Devil that might find a way to make the roster. I'm hoping Leonard Williams gets 37 sacks. Provided they are inspiring....
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Post by lasion2 on Mar 25, 2020 10:19:26 GMT -5
Iâm encouraged and intrigued by the youth movement. Outside of Thomas, is there anyone over 27 years old on the defense? Fackrell might be 28...? I donât expect much help coming to the unit in the draft, but the youth is something to build upon. The FA moves bolster the DL to a strength, replaced Tree, Golden, and JJ with similar, younger options.
The 2nd and 3rd year guys need to really take a step forward for this to be a playoff caliber defense. Better scheme oughta help. But if I saw them progress to average Iâd be really happy.
I donât like to pigeon hole picks to positions, but it looks like OT, C, WR is the way to go early. BPA defense the rest of the way. I donât expect Quentin Nelson type play from our hypothetical rookie OT/C, but again, youth, and itâd make Solder expendable (cap space in 2021). Seems probable we could replicate Slaytons production from a rookie WR that makes Tate expendable. This puts Zietler as the only man over 30 on the offense in 2021. Frees up ~20 million in cap space for the defense in 2021 as well as a full draft with few needs on the offensive side.
As to the ethos of the OP, Iâm optimistic about the near future. But, with so much youth, a new staff and a rook HC; Iâm looking at marginal improvement. 6 wins would be a nice step in the right direction. 8 wins would be a Herculean effort. Iâm excited to get/keep the ball rolling in this.
Everybody stay home, stay safe, and letâs get football season on track.
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Post by JoeyCush on Mar 25, 2020 10:26:32 GMT -5
superbowl or bust. every year.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Mar 25, 2020 10:32:12 GMT -5
At the very least I think 2020 could be the season we hoped 2019 would be, seeing some levels of improvement throughout the team (other threads people argued with me that 2019 wasnt expected to be better than 2018 and the head coach wasnt at fault - uh...ok...) I for one am super excited about Judge and this staff. Im super excited as Judge to me is already way better than McAdoo and Shurmur combined on pressers alone. But Im also cautiously optimistic. I want to see improved play, but to me, they need to get the Ws. At least 8 of them. Enough is enough.
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 25, 2020 10:33:24 GMT -5
I think they got it right this time: 1. The hiring of Joe Judge was probably the most significant move so far. I have very high hopes for him and his staff. 2. I like the FA moves; just with those the team is already better than last year. 3. The rookies from last year now have a season's worth of experience to build from. 4. Saquon Barkley will be coming into his 3rd season 100% healthy. The final piece is to not screw up the draft. Absolute priority is the get OL, then pass rush. That HAS to be done. If it is, and I think it will be (they can't be that blind to not see it at this point) then I think we absolutely have a winning season. Sure, but what are the chances of acquiring a bonafied pass rusher in this upcoming draft?
It would seem the draft will go OT, C, WR, for at least the first 3 picks. I think the defensive personnel that we see on paper right now is basically going to be it, with resigning of a current player or two on the horizon.
The inconvenient truth for a few here .... While there could be a decent pass rusher in the 2nd ....likelyhood is that there could be a big run on them with the 2and tier tackles late first... So the best value for day 2 probably will be C and WR...(though some nice playmakers outside could be found into the mid 5th) Which is OK They play the strength of the draft they are still.adressing needs (oline and dynamic receiver)and at the same time making the offense a big strength..which is how I would build this Get Jones with a very young talented core around him and he develops that much quicker into possibly his high end ceiling.... The defense at the very least will be functional..(15-22 range)..which is OK ..especially with all the young developing talent there. They already probably made the special teams (which was already talented)into one of the top ones in the league... You need to win 2 out of the 3 phases of the game to win 60% of your games... If the defense is functional and they make the offense a force by building with the draft along with the draft's strengths..with the special teams and hopefully pro level coaching.. This team could suprise
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Post by giantlegacy on Mar 25, 2020 10:37:35 GMT -5
Iâm encouraged and intrigued by the youth movement. Outside of Thomas, is there anyone over 27 years old on the defense? Fackrell might be 28...? I donât expect much help coming to the unit in the draft, but the youth is something to build upon. The FA moves bolster the DL to a strength, replaced Tree, Golden, and JJ with similar, younger options. The 2nd and 3rd year guys need to really take a step forward for this to be a playoff caliber defense. Better scheme oughta help. But if I saw them progress to average Iâd be really happy. I donât like to pigeon hole picks to positions, but it looks like OT, C, WR is the way to go early. BPA defense the rest of the way. I donât expect Quentin Nelson type play from our hypothetical rookie OT/C, but again, youth, and itâd make Solder expendable (cap space in 2021). Seems probable we could replicate Slaytons production from a rookie WR that makes Tate expendable. This puts Zietler as the only man over 30 on the offense in 2021. Frees up ~20 million in cap space for the defense in 2021 as well as a full draft with few needs on the offensive side. As to the ethos of the OP, Iâm optimistic about the near future. But, with so much youth, a new staff and a rook HC; Iâm looking at marginal improvement. 6 wins would be a nice step in the right direction. 8 wins would be a Herculean effort. Iâm excited to get/keep the ball rolling in this. Everybody stay home, stay safe, and letâs get football season on track. 100% same page Another dynamic WR opposite Slayton that can scare defenses (see KC in the playoffs how that was exactly what I was talking about all last offseason...and a rather irrelevant RB was able to run it at will....replace that guy with Barkley ) And you hit on a huge point OT and WR.= nearly 25 million more in cap space next year(we are still good next year with the deals we made this year as well) NOW you make your one splash finishing move signing on that side of the ball and other than maybe a BPA o linemen or 2 ...all defense in the draft BPA in 2021
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Mar 25, 2020 10:38:25 GMT -5
I'm hoping Leonard Williams gets 37 sacks. Provided they are inspiring.... LOL
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Post by Kruunch on Mar 25, 2020 10:55:20 GMT -5
At the very least I think 2020 could be the season we hoped 2019 would be, seeing some levels of improvement throughout the team (other threads people argued with me that 2019 wasnt expected to be better than 2018 and the head coach wasnt at fault - uh...ok...) I for one am super excited about Judge and this staff. Im super excited as Judge to me is already way better than McAdoo and Shurmur combined on pressers alone. But Im also cautiously optimistic. I want to see improved play, but to me, they need to get the Ws. At least 8 of them. Enough is enough. Thatâs not saying much. McAdoo was like a broken record with his âgotta watch the tape.â Nonsense. And Shurmur was so boring telemarketers hang up on him.
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 25, 2020 11:09:42 GMT -5
Don't forget, we have a top secret Tazmanian Devil that might find a way to make the roster. I'm hoping Leonard Williams gets 37 sacks. He needs to get one sack for each page "his thread" goes - so, anything less than 57 will still not justify those picks we threw away.
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Post by PennState1 on Mar 25, 2020 11:33:38 GMT -5
So many changes: Judge, Garrett and the rest of the new coaches. Jack Rabbit gone. Bradberry, Martinez, Fackrel, Toilolo, Lewis, Coleman and Colt McCoy coming to town Draft on the way. etc, etc Wow, wonder if we will finally show some real improvement this year. If they get starting OT and a Center then yes.
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Post by boxcarwillie on Mar 25, 2020 17:41:09 GMT -5
So many changes: Judge, Garrett and the rest of the new coaches. Jack Rabbit gone. Bradberry, Martinez, Fackrel, Toilolo, Lewis, Coleman and Colt McCoy coming to town Draft on the way. etc, etc Wow, wonder if we will finally show some real improvement this year. If they get starting OT and a Center then yes. I agree. O-line is first priority. If we solidify only one side of the ball, we should be able to compete every week. Putting DJ into a new system in his 2nd year, behind a weak O-line, could ruin his development. Maybe the D can improve under a new DC. We'd love to bolster both sides, but if that's not possible, we must build a formidable O-line. Of course, even if we draft a stud Tackle and Center, they'll need time to develop, and Nate will still be there. Unearthing gems in the later rounds, after hitting big in the early rounds, is what I'm hoping for.
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Post by IrishMike on Mar 25, 2020 19:23:41 GMT -5
I feel very good about the coaching changes and feel like that is going in the right directions (from a guy that didn't want to fire our coaches last year BTW).
I like the free agent signings and am cautiously optimistic about them.
My big issue is that we have not really addressed our three biggest problems. In no particular order, the OL play, LBs being able to cover and the pass rush have all went basically unaddressed from a player perspective. Now maybe the new coaches can fix some things, certainly plenty of people said coaching had a lot to do with the OL play last year; but this all remains to be seen.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Mar 26, 2020 6:43:35 GMT -5
I just feel this team was in this weird malaise for the past 3 years.....can't explain why or how but surely there were several factors involved.
Obviously two straight HC duds were a big part of it, players giving up, players not being talented enough or being asked to do things they can't do, just an overall lack of cohesion.
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Mar 26, 2020 7:41:51 GMT -5
Would his sacks have been more inspiring . If this was his sack celebration? If Golden did that after each sack, I'd make a collection to pay him what he thinks he is worth...that's entertainment vs wins we're talking about. I don't have a problem with Golden, but I understand what you mean about his 10 sacks. Although I have no facts/stats to back me up, I can't recall many of his sacks resulting in NYG D getting off the field quickly in a big spot. I can recall many by LT, Marshall, Martin, Strahan, Tuck, and JPP--coming when everyone in the building knew a pass was coming and the protection was going to be there. Game changing sacks absolutely shift momentum. That being said, I do appreciate Goldens maturity and professionalism, and for the right price could be good to have on the squad.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2020 8:57:38 GMT -5
New players, new coaches the Giant now on the 3rd reset in a short period of time Challenge will be for players and coaches to mesh together quickly and become and be a better team this season with more wins Not easy I think really the important thing here is gonna be for ownership and DG to have patience. With the way things are our rookie head coach and second year QB and team of course are gonna possibly only have 3 or 4 weeks to get ready for the season. There will be no extra OTAs or practices no early start for this team. Patience is something no one wants to here but it is gonna be needed.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2020 9:08:54 GMT -5
I see it the way you see it but uninspiring for me is sacks that have little to no affect on the game. JPP the last few years here when healthy was that way he would pile his number up in bunches 3 here 4 there another 2 here and 2 there at the end of the day he would have double gigot sack accumulating them in 4 or 5 games and do 0 the other 11 or 12. Golden seemed to get his a sack or half sack at a time through 12 to 14 games and none being game changers. They should have a stat for sacks on third down, just like 3rd down conversion rate or completion percentage
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2020 9:13:11 GMT -5
If Golden did that after each sack, I'd make a collection to pay him what he thinks he is worth...that's entertainment vs wins we're talking about. I don't have a problem with Golden, but I understand what you mean about his 10 sacks. Although I have no facts/stats to back me up, I can't recall many of his sacks resulting in NYG D getting off the field quickly in a big spot. I can recall many by LT, Marshall, Martin, Strahan, Tuck, and JPP--coming when everyone in the building knew a pass was coming and the protection was going to be there. Game changing sacks absolutely shift momentum. That being said, I do appreciate Goldens maturity and professionalism, and for the right price could be good to have on the squad. He would be a great #2 or 3 his energy would help the other side a ton. Don't think he would be happy coming off the bench tho as a 3 think tho it might fit him perfectly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2020 9:32:44 GMT -5
I see it the way you see it but uninspiring for me is sacks that have little to no affect on the game. JPP the last few years here when healthy was that way he would pile his number up in bunches 3 here 4 there another 2 here and 2 there at the end of the day he would have double gigot sack accumulating them in 4 or 5 games and do 0 the other 11 or 12. Golden seemed to get his a sack or half sack at a time through 12 to 14 games and none being game changers. They should have a stat for sacks on third down, just like 3rd down conversion rate or completion percentage Good point...yeah, and this was the same JPP who made big plays earlier in his career...the era. Yeah, sacks are nice, but if the team is still losing, and getting blown out...and a Golden gets one, it's not imperative...and as you suggest, never really had any bearing on the game. Those 3rd and 4 yards to go, field goal range sacks, where a player beats his block quickly and destroys the QB in less than 3 seconds...those you seem to remember. Golden you look at the sacks on the stat sheet and think to yourself, when was one meaningful? Like JPP, earlier in his career...when Golden was playing on the Cards...he seemed to have those big moment sacks. Of course the Cards were a top league defense back then...so maybe Golden is not a cornerstone edge, but more a filler that helps out on certain schemes and blitz/stunts. Once Bettcher left though, unfairly I might add as he had nothing to work with talent wise...his paycheck instantly went into question mode. IMHO of course....
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Mar 26, 2020 9:55:04 GMT -5
I see it the way you see it but uninspiring for me is sacks that have little to no affect on the game. JPP the last few years here when healthy was that way he would pile his number up in bunches 3 here 4 there another 2 here and 2 there at the end of the day he would have double gigot sack accumulating them in 4 or 5 games and do 0 the other 11 or 12. Golden seemed to get his a sack or half sack at a time through 12 to 14 games and none being game changers. They should have a stat for sacks on third down, just like 3rd down conversion rate or completion percentage Good point...yeah, and this was the same JPP who made big plays earlier in his career...the era. Yeah, sacks are nice, but if the team is still losing, and getting blown out...and a Golden gets one, it's not imperative...and as you suggest, never really had any bearing on the game. Those 3rd and 4 yards to go, field goal range sacks, where a player beats his block quickly and destroys the QB in less than 3 seconds...those you seem to remember. Golden you look at the sacks on the stat sheet and think to yourself, when was one meaningful? Like JPP, earlier in his career...when Golden was playing on the Cards...he seemed to have those big moment sacks. Of course the Cards were a top league defense back then...so maybe Golden is not a cornerstone edge, but more a filler that helps out on certain schemes and blitz/stunts. Once Bettcher left though, unfairly I might add as he had nothing to work with talent wise...his paycheck instantly went into question mode. IMHO of course.... 100% to your point that why when I talk on JPP not being affective it is more the last few years he was here. As far as golden goes think as we both said in AZ he was a piece to the puzzle. I can't say for sure but wonder whether he was a rotational piece.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Mar 26, 2020 9:58:25 GMT -5
This is now the 3rd coaching regime and 2nd GM to fix a terribly failing organization. I think most of the holes have been addressed. Don't know if fixed. Hell we've been addressing our OL for at least 6 years, but yet it's still needs to be fixed.
I don't have confidence in anybody. Only Saquon I know he's great but of course he needs help to succeed.
All we can do is keep trying to improve one step at a time. Next year possibly we can finally put help into every weak position, if the other positions hold up.
No matter who we get in the draft Simmons or OT it leaves the other very weak, but at least one becomes strong. Guess I've just been beaten down the last 6 years especially the last 3 years. Maybe the virus has me exhausted and I'm just having a bad day. Talk about pessimistic.
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Post by jimmieray on Mar 26, 2020 10:06:11 GMT -5
Good point...yeah, and this was the same JPP who made big plays earlier in his career...the era. Yeah, sacks are nice, but if the team is still losing, and getting blown out...and a Golden gets one, it's not imperative...and as you suggest, never really had any bearing on the game. Those 3rd and 4 yards to go, field goal range sacks, where a player beats his block quickly and destroys the QB in less than 3 seconds...those you seem to remember. Golden you look at the sacks on the stat sheet and think to yourself, when was one meaningful? Like JPP, earlier in his career...when Golden was playing on the Cards...he seemed to have those big moment sacks. Of course the Cards were a top league defense back then...so maybe Golden is not a cornerstone edge, but more a filler that helps out on certain schemes and blitz/stunts. Once Bettcher left though, unfairly I might add as he had nothing to work with talent wise...his paycheck instantly went into question mode. IMHO of course.... 100% to your point that why when I talk on JPP not being affective it is more the last few years he was here. As far as golden goes think as we both said in AZ he was a piece to the puzzle. I can't say for sure but wonder whether he was a rotational piece. I don't really get all the Golden bashing here. When he was acquired, it was a chancy but economical move - that most said if he just showed full recovery from injury and even produce half the sacks he had prior, it would be a great thing. I don't really recall him being any more of a liability than some players we are keeping and hoping improvement from.
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