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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 11:47:15 GMT -5
No the Clemson coaches devised an awsome scheme to use his skills and won a National Champioship with that scheme. So it is possible to win with him in short amount of time. At the same time I agree Jones needs more help currently and in the future that is reason I am hoping the Giants get him a OL that can grow with him but I am not going nitpick and convince myself to crap on a great talent like Simmons. I'm glad I'm not the one making this decision. But I dont understand the logic against an LB who has great speed and coverage skills and who can also run down RBs from behind. Lack of these kind of skills is something we have been absolutely getting killed by for years. It has lost us many, many games. Seems like some of the same peeps that are constantly preaching how the "game has changed" are adamant that we cant take a "tweener." I personally believe if the Giants were set at OL this debate would be WR top 3 vs Simmons.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 11:56:41 GMT -5
I'm glad I'm not the one making this decision. But I dont understand the logic against an LB who has great speed and coverage skills and who can also run down RBs from behind. Lack of these kind of skills is something we have been absolutely getting killed by for years. It has lost us many, many games. Seems like some of the same peeps that are constantly preaching how the "game has changed" are adamant that we cant take a "tweener." I personally believe if the Giants were set at OL this debate would be WR top 3 vs Simmons. Actually I think if we were set Okudah would be in the mix and probably the BPA,even with getting Bradbury.... Reasoning is Bradbury can play outside and slot and follow a teams best WR.. Yes we woumd have again rookie growing pains at CB but he legit is more advanced than maybe even Lattimore was coming out... If the Online was set that is where I would go.....that is a sick young secondary.. Sadly with the O line a mess... no luxury picks make any sense at all...
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 5, 2020 12:00:35 GMT -5
I'm glad I'm not the one making this decision. But I dont understand the logic against an LB who has great speed and coverage skills, who can also run down RBs from behind. Lack of this ability is something we have been absolutely getting killed by for years. Lack of this has lost us many, many games. Seems like some of the same peeps that are constantly preaching how the "game has changed" are adamant that we cant take a "tweener." Not at 4 when he has questionable football instincts,can't get off of blocks even against TEs and a few WRs,and more importantly being a non premium position when we have a dire need for 2 high players at a premium position and we probably have an extremely rare occurrence to have the pick of the litter even at 6 at some of the most advanced at this position fundamentally to come out in years,which more importantly helps our most important young player (Jones)develop quickly,when passing on said player at premium position puts us at high risk of completely missing out on one when that position is picked clean I can't wrap my head around why any fan of this team,who has seen our O line suck for so long and finally be in the position to adress this even with a trade back,would be more than willing to risk missing out on a Golden chance to finally fix this with some incredible prospects And yes the game has changed to a modern fast paced speed based game on both sides of the ball,but the one major constant is that if you dont control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball you are never going to be more than a 6-10 team no matter how many toys and weapons you have on both sides of the ball,which Simmons is just as much as a Lamb or Jeudy. Plain and simple... Even the few still stuck in 1989 and want to go back to prehistoric goober ball.. You still need a really good O line..... And again If Young goes to Washington,how does Simmons help combat this ? I know that you don’t want Simmons and you make a fair argument on that point. But you keep saying that Simmons has “questionable football instincts”, which is just false.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 13:02:04 GMT -5
Not at 4 when he has questionable football instincts,can't get off of blocks even against TEs and a few WRs,and more importantly being a non premium position when we have a dire need for 2 high players at a premium position and we probably have an extremely rare occurrence to have the pick of the litter even at 6 at some of the most advanced at this position fundamentally to come out in years,which more importantly helps our most important young player (Jones)develop quickly,when passing on said player at premium position puts us at high risk of completely missing out on one when that position is picked clean I can't wrap my head around why any fan of this team,who has seen our O line suck for so long and finally be in the position to adress this even with a trade back,would be more than willing to risk missing out on a Golden chance to finally fix this with some incredible prospects And yes the game has changed to a modern fast paced speed based game on both sides of the ball,but the one major constant is that if you dont control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball you are never going to be more than a 6-10 team no matter how many toys and weapons you have on both sides of the ball,which Simmons is just as much as a Lamb or Jeudy. Plain and simple... Even the few still stuck in 1989 and want to go back to prehistoric goober ball.. You still need a really good O line..... And again If Young goes to Washington,how does Simmons help combat this ? I know that you don’t want Simmons and you make a fair argument on that point. But you keep saying that Simmons has “questionable football instincts”, which is just false. I watched the game against Ohio State and at least twice he was responsible for major plays against(including reacting late to the guy he was responsible for dropping(review correctly overturned it)by Dobbins where he was not where he should have been,and on the TD run if he was this all.world.super athlete he would nor have been neutralized in the slot by a TE or WR(its hard to tell.who had him)to the point he couldn't contain the damage Im not the only one who is saying this as it's in that scouting report as well...
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 5, 2020 16:02:09 GMT -5
I know that you don’t want Simmons and you make a fair argument on that point. But you keep saying that Simmons has “questionable football instincts”, which is just false. I watched the game against Ohio State and at least twice he was responsible for major plays against(including reacting late to the guy he was responsible for dropping(review correctly overturned it)by Dobbins where he was not where he should have been,and on the TD run if he was this all.world.super athlete he would nor have been neutralized in the slot by a TE or WR(its hard to tell.who had him)to the point he couldn't contain the damage Im not the only one who is saying this as it's in that scouting report as well... You watched one game? And one game by the way where he made a lot of big plays?
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 16:05:37 GMT -5
I watched the game against Ohio State and at least twice he was responsible for major plays against(including reacting late to the guy he was responsible for dropping(review correctly overturned it)by Dobbins where he was not where he should have been,and on the TD run if he was this all.world.super athlete he would nor have been neutralized in the slot by a TE or WR(its hard to tell.who had him)to the point he couldn't contain the damage Im not the only one who is saying this as it's in that scouting report as well... You watched one game? And one game by the way where he made a lot of big plays? He made a few good plays in the 2nd half Which proves my point,boom or bust..all in one game.. You can't take this player at 4
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 5, 2020 16:40:25 GMT -5
You watched one game? And one game by the way where he made a lot of big plays? He made a few good plays in the 2nd half Which proves my point,boom or bust..all in one game.. You can't take this player at 4 What two big plays was he “responsible for”? I’ve watched every defensive play in that game more than once and cannot for the life of me figure out what you are talking about. On one long Dobbins run, he was rushing on the edge and got blocked by a OT and Dobbins busted it up the middle. No way he was “responsible for” that play. He was in coverage a lot and I only recall one pass getting completed on him. He made an incredibly instinctual play on the INT as well as on a shoe-string tackle of Dobbins late that probably would have gone for a TD if he didn’t make the play. What specific play(s) are you talking about?
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 16:58:06 GMT -5
He made a few good plays in the 2nd half Which proves my point,boom or bust..all in one game.. You can't take this player at 4 What two big plays was he “responsible for”? I’ve watched every defensive play in that game more than once and cannot for the life of me figure out what you are talking about. On one long Dobbins run, he was rushing on the edge and got blocked by a OT and Dobbins busted it up the middle. No way he was “responsible for” that play. He was in coverage a lot and I only recall one pass getting completed on him. He made an incredibly instinctual play on the INT as well as on a shoe-string tackle of Dobbins late that probably would have gone for a TD if he didn’t make the play. What specific play(s) are you talking about? He looked way out of position on that edge rush..Dobbins went where he should have been The TD run he was basicly engaged by either a TE or WR..if he can't get off s block by either of those positions in college what happens in the pros when a Kittles or someone blocks him? The dropped pass by Dobbins in the end zone he was late reacting..you can hear the announcer say this in the replay,he should have been over there shadowing him from the snap.. There is no way anyone can convince me he is not only not a high risk at 4 but why he (no premium position) should be taken over a huge need at a premium position where we have the golden opportunity to get a rare really good OT coming out of college to protect the most important position in sports,and risk kicking the can down the road another year when the run on tackles takes out the next group
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 5, 2020 17:06:22 GMT -5
What two big plays was he “responsible for”? I’ve watched every defensive play in that game more than once and cannot for the life of me figure out what you are talking about. On one long Dobbins run, he was rushing on the edge and got blocked by a OT and Dobbins busted it up the middle. No way he was “responsible for” that play. He was in coverage a lot and I only recall one pass getting completed on him. He made an incredibly instinctual play on the INT as well as on a shoe-string tackle of Dobbins late that probably would have gone for a TD if he didn’t make the play. What specific play(s) are you talking about? He looked way out of position on that edge rush..Dobbins went where he should have been The TD run he was basicly engaged by either a TE or WR..if he can't get off s block by either of those positions in college what happens in the pros when a Kittles or someone blocks him? The dropped pass by Dobbins in the end zone he was late reacting..you can hear the announcer say this in the replay,he should have been over there shadowing him from the snap.. There is no way anyone can convince me he is not only not a high risk at 4 but why he (no premium position) should be taken over a huge need at a premium position where we have the golden opportunity to get a rare really good OT coming out of college to protect the most important position in sports,and risk kicking the can down the road another year when the run on tackles takes out the next group That’s fine, but your opinion is based upon one game that I also watched and did not see the same things that you did. I agree with you that OT should be the pick (preferably after a trade back), but we don’t need to get there by shitting on this kid as a player. He is a great player.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 17:14:32 GMT -5
He looked way out of position on that edge rush..Dobbins went where he should have been The TD run he was basicly engaged by either a TE or WR..if he can't get off s block by either of those positions in college what happens in the pros when a Kittles or someone blocks him? The dropped pass by Dobbins in the end zone he was late reacting..you can hear the announcer say this in the replay,he should have been over there shadowing him from the snap.. There is no way anyone can convince me he is not only not a high risk at 4 but why he (no premium position) should be taken over a huge need at a premium position where we have the golden opportunity to get a rare really good OT coming out of college to protect the most important position in sports,and risk kicking the can down the road another year when the run on tackles takes out the next group That’s fine, but your opinion is based upon one game that I also watched and did not see the same things that you did. I agree with you that OT should be the pick (preferably after a trade back), but we don’t need to get there by shitting on this kid as a player. He is a great player. He possible can be....... That's my fear... I'll say this again If somehow we had the 4th overall pick and our line was set(don't ask how this could happen.) I'd take Okudah over Simmons because while yes we used a lot of draft assets on 3 players the past year and paid Bradbury.... We would he in luxury pick zone, And I'm taking BPA...a luxury pick would be someone that makes a unit incredible... Because O line in theory wouldn't be needed (of course O line could still be a luxury pick ad well).... Okudah at least has a defined position,and is arguably a generational talent at corner.... What he would do for this defense would have far more impact than Simmons in that it would allow Bradbury to travel to the slot and shadow top recievers there while Okudah (while unfortunately probably having rookie growing pains as well)becomes a shut down corner quickly..while Baker now is the 3rd corner... This would be leigon if boom type coverage... Now watch this be our pick I'd hate it with the dire need at OT but with what I said above I could after a few weeks cool off and justify it
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 17:31:18 GMT -5
Anytime a player leads a college championship quality team in passes defended AND tackles for loss...he should be in consideration for a top 5 pick
This game was a beauty...enjoy the 3 top 5 defensive prospects and drool...
If we didn't have Jones, and unfortunately the OL we now have...he would a fine pick.
QB is king...
BTW - Simmons at the 9 minute mark.... huge potential game turning missed coverage...Dobbins wide open coming out of the backfield.... ruled a drop (he drops quite a few...game sealing screen)
Muse with that shoestring tackle on Dobbins...that kid is going to be a mid round gem
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 17:56:11 GMT -5
Anytime a player leads a college championship quality team in passes defended AND tackles for loss...he should be in consideration for a top 5 pick This game was a beauty...enjoy the 3 top 5 defensive prospects and drool... If we didn't have Jones, and unfortunately the OL we now have...he would a fine pick. QB is king... BTW - Simmons at the 9 minute mark.... huge potential game turning missed coverage...Dobbins wife coming out.... ruled a drop Muse with that shoestring tackle on Dobbins...that kid is going to be a mid round gem That missed coverage is exactly what I was pointing out..that was his assignment. And you are talking about Okudah being our pick if the line was good right?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2020 17:58:37 GMT -5
Anytime a player leads a college championship quality team in passes defended AND tackles for loss...he should be in consideration for a top 5 pick This game was a beauty...enjoy the 3 top 5 defensive prospects and drool... If we didn't have Jones, and unfortunately the OL we now have...he would a fine pick. QB is king... BTW - Simmons at the 9 minute mark.... huge potential game turning missed coverage...Dobbins wife coming out.... ruled a drop Muse with that shoestring tackle on Dobbins...that kid is going to be a mid round gem That missed coverage is exactly what I was pointing out..that was his assignment. And you are talking about Okudah being our pick if the line was good right? Yeah, Okudah is unreal.....that guy's going to a special cornerback in the NFL.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 5, 2020 19:00:54 GMT -5
Anytime a player leads a college championship quality team in passes defended AND tackles for loss...he should be in consideration for a top 5 pick This game was a beauty...enjoy the 3 top 5 defensive prospects and drool... If we didn't have Jones, and unfortunately the OL we now have...he would a fine pick. QB is king... BTW - Simmons at the 9 minute mark.... huge potential game turning missed coverage...Dobbins wife coming out.... ruled a drop Muse with that shoestring tackle on Dobbins...that kid is going to be a mid round gem That missed coverage is exactly what I was pointing out..that was his assignment. And you are talking about Okudah being our pick if the line was good right? He missed one coverage (according to you) in the one game you happened to watch and on that basis alone, you maintain that anyone in favor of drafting the kid is an idiot. I find this to be very odd.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 19:25:12 GMT -5
That missed coverage is exactly what I was pointing out..that was his assignment. And you are talking about Okudah being our pick if the line was good right? He missed one coverage (according to you) in the one game you happened to watch and on that basis alone, you maintain that anyone in favor of drafting the kid is an idiot. I find this to be very odd. Please stop trying to twist things coming out of my mouth. You have a very bad habit of doing this with everyone here so all I'm going to say is there are 6353525353 reasons this pick has the chance to be disastrous for this team if we make this mistake,the primary being again he plays an undefined role between 2 non premium positions and we have the chance to take a really food football player that plays a premium position that protects the most important position on the field and in a year Vital tl the QBs development..and allows us to finally clear 20 million in cap space next year.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 5, 2020 19:41:31 GMT -5
He missed one coverage (according to you) in the one game you happened to watch and on that basis alone, you maintain that anyone in favor of drafting the kid is an idiot. I find this to be very odd. Please stop trying to twist things coming out of my mouth. You have a very bad habit of doing this with everyone here so all I'm going to say is there are 6353525353 reasons this pick has the chance to be disastrous for this team if we make this mistake,the primary being again he plays an undefined role between 2 non premium positions and we have the chance to take a really food football player that plays a premium position that protects the most important position on the field and in a year Vital tl the QBs development..and allows us to finally clear 20 million in cap space next year. I have no problem with anything you said here. What I have a problem with is you claiming that Simmons lacks football instincts based upon one play (which resulted in a dropped pass) in the one game that you watched. By the way, how many games of these OT’s have you watched?
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 19:55:59 GMT -5
Please stop trying to twist things coming out of my mouth. You have a very bad habit of doing this with everyone here so all I'm going to say is there are 6353525353 reasons this pick has the chance to be disastrous for this team if we make this mistake,the primary being again he plays an undefined role between 2 non premium positions and we have the chance to take a really food football player that plays a premium position that protects the most important position on the field and in a year Vital tl the QBs development..and allows us to finally clear 20 million in cap space next year. I have no problem with anything you said here. What I have a problem with is you claiming that Simmons lacks football instincts based upon one play (which resulted in a dropped pass) in the one game that you watched. By the way, how many games of these OT’s have you watched? I named 3 plays he looked bad in And there are enough bad and good clips out there .. My mind is set in stone... The same way it was set in stone when people were jonesing for Garret Bolles in 2017 and I correctly predicted he would be a massive bust because of only one year starting at a big school,26 years old,small frame and past his age for putting on muscle mass... Georgia and Alabama multiple times(admittedly watching the wrong tackle Leatherwood who I was not impressed with and had to watch the clips of Wills which kinda blew me away) Iowa a few times (including Wirfs one bad game vs Michigan so I saw some bad) Only clips of Becton.. All these guys to me have shown they have a good enough floor to be at least good starters in the league(ie..no Flowers red flags with lazy hand placement and clutz at times footwork).
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 9, 2020 7:30:39 GMT -5
Just heard David Syvertsen, aka Sy'56 on the Giants Insider podcast. Some of his points:
Simmons is a guy that is ranked so highly because of his versatility, but he is only above average at each role he plays - ILB, Edge Rusher, S.
He likes Wirfs the best out of the tackles. Can definitely play LT. Sees him playing RT for a year to get his NFL legs under him and then moving to LT in 2021 when Solder is gone.
He thinks that the Giants signed Toilolo because they expect to play a young OT and it would be a big help to the young guy to have Toilolo line up next to him.
He had questions about Andrew Thomas' effort. Said that when he gives effort he is excellent, but he does not always give effort. Said that he is similar to Ereck Flowers as a prospect in that way.
Interesting stuff ….
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 9, 2020 8:10:21 GMT -5
Just heard David Syvertsen, aka Sy'56 on the Giants Insider podcast. Some of his points: Simmons is a guy that is ranked so highly because of his versatility, but he is only above average at each role he plays - ILB, Edge Rusher, S. He likes Wirfs the best out of the tackles. Can definitely play LT. Sees him playing RT for a year to get his NFL legs under him and then moving to LT in 2021 when Solder is gone. He thinks that the Giants signed Toilolo because they expect to play a young OT and it would be a big help to the young guy to have Toilolo line up next to him. He had questions about Andrew Thomas' effort. Said that when he gives effort he is excellent, but he does not always give effort. Said that he is similar to Ereck Flowers as a prospect in that way. Interesting stuff …. I never saw effort issues with Thomas..I think possibly why people are down on him is tape of his last game where Chaisson kinda owned him a bit(this to me again says more about Chaisson,who I've been bullish on since October as well but many aren't,than Thomas...) More smoke for Wirfs Interesting fact... In all my years of studying the draft and such,going back to 2000,the Giants have never taken a player I was high on during the college season until last year when ZI Joined the Jones is legit train... Wirfs would be 2 years in a row...and would be the first time they would take a guy I wanted(along with Thomas and now Wills)at their pick in name and in my mocks since I mocked Shockey in 2002... His take on Simmons is something I've seen at well... Honestly If he just did one thing incredible (aka Okudah)I'd probably be on board a lot more For someone to be this hyped and this "groundbreaking " I need to see Double digit sacks Double digit turnovers League leaders in tackles 15 or more TFLs.. And at the Heisman ceremony with a legit shot of winning. I dont see that And something to consider (before the "you're just a blind hater bullshit commences ) This Covid-19 bullshit could have a negative impact on him unfortunately with his draft stock Teams who were impressed with his versatility really needed to see him in a private workout with their defensive guys getting their hands on him and seeing first hand how he could be incorporated into their defense.... Skype/zoom interviews won't cut it. Teams will start to get cold feet and want someone a little more safe with defined roles early,the only wild card would be Patricia who has a legit long history with guys like this,but even he being on the hot seat would take a given (Okudah)early.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 9, 2020 8:11:26 GMT -5
Just heard David Syvertsen, aka Sy'56 on the Giants Insider podcast. Some of his points: Simmons is a guy that is ranked so highly because of his versatility, but he is only above average at each role he plays - ILB, Edge Rusher, S. He likes Wirfs the best out of the tackles. Can definitely play LT. Sees him playing RT for a year to get his NFL legs under him and then moving to LT in 2021 when Solder is gone. He thinks that the Giants signed Toilolo because they expect to play a young OT and it would be a big help to the young guy to have Toilolo line up next to him. He had questions about Andrew Thomas' effort. Said that when he gives effort he is excellent, but he does not always give effort. Said that he is similar to Ereck Flowers as a prospect in that way. Interesting stuff …. Do you have link to the podcast? I was trying to find it.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 9, 2020 8:20:18 GMT -5
Just heard David Syvertsen, aka Sy'56 on the Giants Insider podcast. Some of his points: Simmons is a guy that is ranked so highly because of his versatility, but he is only above average at each role he plays - ILB, Edge Rusher, S. He likes Wirfs the best out of the tackles. Can definitely play LT. Sees him playing RT for a year to get his NFL legs under him and then moving to LT in 2021 when Solder is gone. He thinks that the Giants signed Toilolo because they expect to play a young OT and it would be a big help to the young guy to have Toilolo line up next to him. He had questions about Andrew Thomas' effort. Said that when he gives effort he is excellent, but he does not always give effort. Said that he is similar to Ereck Flowers as a prospect in that way. Interesting stuff …. Do you have link to the podcast? I was trying to find it. If you search it on iTunes its "The Giants Insider Podcast" with Jerry Foley and Chris Bisignano. The episode I was referring to just dropped last night.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 9, 2020 8:21:54 GMT -5
Just heard David Syvertsen, aka Sy'56 on the Giants Insider podcast. Some of his points: Simmons is a guy that is ranked so highly because of his versatility, but he is only above average at each role he plays - ILB, Edge Rusher, S. He likes Wirfs the best out of the tackles. Can definitely play LT. Sees him playing RT for a year to get his NFL legs under him and then moving to LT in 2021 when Solder is gone. He thinks that the Giants signed Toilolo because they expect to play a young OT and it would be a big help to the young guy to have Toilolo line up next to him. He had questions about Andrew Thomas' effort. Said that when he gives effort he is excellent, but he does not always give effort. Said that he is similar to Ereck Flowers as a prospect in that way. Interesting stuff …. I never saw effort issues with Thomas..I think possibly why people are down on him is tape of his last game where Chaisson kinda owned him a bit(this to me again says more about Chaisson,who I've been bullish on since October as well but many aren't,than Thomas...) More smoke for Wirfs Interesting fact... In all my years of studying the draft and such,going back to 2000,the Giants have never taken a player I was high on during the college season until last year when ZI Joined the Jones is legit train... Wirfs would be 2 years in a row...and would be the first time they would take a guy I wanted(along with Thomas and now Wills)at their pick in name and in my mocks since I mocked Shockey in 2002... His take on Simmons is something I've seen at well... Honestly If he just did one thing incredible (aka Okudah)I'd probably be on board a lot more For someone to be this hyped and this "groundbreaking " I need to see Double digit sacks Double digit turnovers League leaders in tackles 15 or more TFLs.. And at the Heisman ceremony with a legit shot of winning. I dont see that And something to consider (before the "you're just a blind hater bullshit commences ) This Covid-19 bullshit could have a negative impact on him unfortunately with his draft stock Teams who were impressed with his versatility really needed to see him in a private workout with their defensive guys getting their hands on him and seeing first hand how he could be incorporated into their defense.... Skype/zoom interviews won't cut it. Teams will start to get cold feet and want someone a little more safe with defined roles early,the only wild card would be Patricia who has a legit long history with guys like this,but even he being on the hot seat would take a given (Okudah)early. Another thing he said is that Simmons is a guy you probably have to design your defense around, rather than just try to plug him into an existing scheme. Could be tough to do with the virus shutdown ….
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 9, 2020 8:34:19 GMT -5
I never saw effort issues with Thomas..I think possibly why people are down on him is tape of his last game where Chaisson kinda owned him a bit(this to me again says more about Chaisson,who I've been bullish on since October as well but many aren't,than Thomas...) More smoke for Wirfs Interesting fact... In all my years of studying the draft and such,going back to 2000,the Giants have never taken a player I was high on during the college season until last year when ZI Joined the Jones is legit train... Wirfs would be 2 years in a row...and would be the first time they would take a guy I wanted(along with Thomas and now Wills)at their pick in name and in my mocks since I mocked Shockey in 2002... His take on Simmons is something I've seen at well... Honestly If he just did one thing incredible (aka Okudah)I'd probably be on board a lot more For someone to be this hyped and this "groundbreaking " I need to see Double digit sacks Double digit turnovers League leaders in tackles 15 or more TFLs.. And at the Heisman ceremony with a legit shot of winning. I dont see that And something to consider (before the "you're just a blind hater bullshit commences ) This Covid-19 bullshit could have a negative impact on him unfortunately with his draft stock Teams who were impressed with his versatility really needed to see him in a private workout with their defensive guys getting their hands on him and seeing first hand how he could be incorporated into their defense.... Skype/zoom interviews won't cut it. Teams will start to get cold feet and want someone a little more safe with defined roles early,the only wild card would be Patricia who has a legit long history with guys like this,but even he being on the hot seat would take a given (Okudah)early. Another thing he said is that Simmons is a guy you probably have to design your defense around, rather than just try to plug him into an existing scheme. Could be tough to do with the virus shutdown …. Yep Things that I have been saying I still thought watching that game against Ohio State that he was a true MLB that occasionally walked out to slot ala Myles Jack,which is while despite a bad 1stvhalf my eyes popped with that INT. the fact he doesn't have a defined role and this situation this year. You can't take this guy at 4 or even 6 unfortunately...especially now with the covid-19 situation harshing every teams draft visits and not having the time probably till training camp now to see what he can actually do.
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 9, 2020 9:05:02 GMT -5
I never saw effort issues with Thomas..I think possibly why people are down on him is tape of his last game where Chaisson kinda owned him a bit(this to me again says more about Chaisson,who I've been bullish on since October as well but many aren't,than Thomas...) More smoke for Wirfs Interesting fact... In all my years of studying the draft and such,going back to 2000,the Giants have never taken a player I was high on during the college season until last year when ZI Joined the Jones is legit train... Wirfs would be 2 years in a row...and would be the first time they would take a guy I wanted(along with Thomas and now Wills)at their pick in name and in my mocks since I mocked Shockey in 2002... His take on Simmons is something I've seen at well... Honestly If he just did one thing incredible (aka Okudah)I'd probably be on board a lot more For someone to be this hyped and this "groundbreaking " I need to see Double digit sacks Double digit turnovers League leaders in tackles 15 or more TFLs.. And at the Heisman ceremony with a legit shot of winning. I dont see that And something to consider (before the "you're just a blind hater bullshit commences ) This Covid-19 bullshit could have a negative impact on him unfortunately with his draft stock Teams who were impressed with his versatility really needed to see him in a private workout with their defensive guys getting their hands on him and seeing first hand how he could be incorporated into their defense.... Skype/zoom interviews won't cut it. Teams will start to get cold feet and want someone a little more safe with defined roles early,the only wild card would be Patricia who has a legit long history with guys like this,but even he being on the hot seat would take a given (Okudah)early. Another thing he said is that Simmons is a guy you probably have to design your defense around, rather than just try to plug him into an existing scheme. Could be tough to do with the virus shutdown …. That might be true, but you're not drafting a guy at 4 for 1 season. And if he's as talented as many claim, he should be able to make any defense better.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 9, 2020 9:08:19 GMT -5
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 9, 2020 9:21:17 GMT -5
Another thing he said is that Simmons is a guy you probably have to design your defense around, rather than just try to plug him into an existing scheme. Could be tough to do with the virus shutdown …. That might be true, but you're not drafting a guy at 4 for 1 season. And if he's as talented as many claim, he should be able to make any defense better. Fair point. Do you want a guy though who has to have an entire defense built around him to be successful (if this is even true)? What if he gets hurt, is suspended, stinks, etc.? I find this debate fascinating. I lean OL in the first, but can see the argument for Simmons.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 9, 2020 9:22:27 GMT -5
That's it. It's actually my favorite Giants podcast.
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 9, 2020 9:40:07 GMT -5
That might be true, but you're not drafting a guy at 4 for 1 season. And if he's as talented as many claim, he should be able to make any defense better. Fair point. Do you want a guy though who has to have an entire defense built around him to be successful (if this is even true)? What if he gets hurt, is suspended, stinks, etc.? I find this debate fascinating. I lean OL in the first, but can see the argument for Simmons. Yeah it's an interesting call and I'm glad I'm not making it. But I dont know if I buy the idea that the only way Simmons is valuable is to design an entire defense around him. Hes an incredibly fast LB who appears to be able to make plays sideline to sideline, can tackle, cover, and rush the passer. Who cant use a player like that?
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 9, 2020 9:44:03 GMT -5
Fair point. Do you want a guy though who has to have an entire defense built around him to be successful (if this is even true)? What if he gets hurt, is suspended, stinks, etc.? I find this debate fascinating. I lean OL in the first, but can see the argument for Simmons. Yeah it's an interesting call and I'm glad I'm not making it. But I dont know if I buy the idea that the only way Simmons is valuable is to design an entire defense around him. Hes an incredibly fast LB who appears to be able to make plays sideline to sideline, can tackle, cover, and rush the passer. Who cant use a player like that? Agreed. My hesitation is that I'm not a scout, so I can't really evaluate his play (or the play of any of these prospects) to the level that a scout can. I watch games like a fan. Watching Simmons as a fan, he looks great to me ….
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 9, 2020 9:56:55 GMT -5
Yeah it's an interesting call and I'm glad I'm not making it. But I dont know if I buy the idea that the only way Simmons is valuable is to design an entire defense around him. Hes an incredibly fast LB who appears to be able to make plays sideline to sideline, can tackle, cover, and rush the passer. Who cant use a player like that? Agreed. My hesitation is that I'm not a scout, so I can't really evaluate his play (or the play of any of these prospects) to the level that a scout can. I watch games like a fan. Watching Simmons as a fan, he looks great to me …. To me he looks like the type of lb peeps have been complaining we haven't had for years. And now peeps are afraid of drafting him. I get the ot argument, and if an of is BPA, draft him. If there's any doubt about the ots, draft BPA.
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