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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 3, 2020 8:48:39 GMT -5
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Post by GameTime on Apr 3, 2020 9:17:55 GMT -5
This coaching staff yelled from the top of the mountains that they want to be able to change their scheme week to week to exploit the opponent’s weaknesses. Simmons is quite literally the kind of player that can change week to week based on what the team needs, and he can do so at a high level. However, if they put him at ILB routinely, he will get crushed because his instincts are average at best and he plays high. If they put him at EDGE routinely, he will get crushed because he doesn’t have an array of rush moves and he doesn’t use his hands well in that situation. If they put him at safety routinely, he will get crushed because he is high hipped and doesn’t play more athletic than NFL receivers like he did in college.
Hmm........only one opinion but its seems this kid needs t be multiple. What if the game plan(s) dont have him as multiple often enough?
Not a fan of the "average instincts" at all.
With that said seems like a handful of good payers with high upsides later in the draft.
I am still of the opinion to go for Thomas as the future LT.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 3, 2020 9:35:56 GMT -5
This coaching staff yelled from the top of the mountains that they want to be able to change their scheme week to week to exploit the opponent’s weaknesses. Simmons is quite literally the kind of player that can change week to week based on what the team needs, and he can do so at a high level. However, if they put him at ILB routinely, he will get crushed because his instincts are average at best and he plays high. If they put him at EDGE routinely, he will get crushed because he doesn’t have an array of rush moves and he doesn’t use his hands well in that situation. If they put him at safety routinely, he will get crushed because he is high hipped and doesn’t play more athletic than NFL receivers like he did in college.Hmm........only one opinion but its seems this kid needs t be multiple. What if the game plan(s) dont have him as multiple often enough? Not a fan of the "average instincts" at all. With that said seems like a handful of good payers with high upsides later in the draft. I am still of the opinion to go for Thomas as the future LT. The bolded part alone is why he frightens me at 4 all by itself And the game against Ohio state in the first half shows all his warts out in the open to scare people off taking him at 4..
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 3, 2020 9:45:43 GMT -5
Who is the guy giving the analysis? A poster on another message board?
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 3, 2020 9:48:00 GMT -5
Who is the guy giving the analysis? A poster on another message board? He works for Ourlads scouting. If you look all the way at the bottom of his articles it should have his bio. There might be some more info on him at Ourlads scouting.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 3, 2020 9:51:15 GMT -5
Who is the guy giving the analysis? A poster on another message board? Here's his bio. David Syvertsen, aka Sy'56, has worked for Ourlads Scouting LLC since 2013, starting off as a college depth chart manager and now a lead scout for one the most-sold NFL draft guides year-in, year-out. He has been scouting for over 10 years and will compile anywhere from 400-600 scouting reports per season, with that number increasing year by year. He watches and studies game films 20-25 hours per week throughout the entire year with his main focus being NFL Draft prospects.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 3, 2020 9:52:04 GMT -5
Who is the guy giving the analysis? A poster on another message board? Here's his bio. David Syvertsen, aka Sy'56, has worked for Ourlads Scouting LLC since 2013, starting off as a college depth chart manager and now a lead scout for one the most-sold NFL draft guides year-in, year-out. He has been scouting for over 10 years and will compile anywhere from 400-600 scouting reports per season, with that number increasing year by year. He watches and studies game films 20-25 hours per week throughout the entire year with his main focus being NFL Draft prospects. Thanks … sorry … I didn't see that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 9:59:09 GMT -5
This coaching staff yelled from the top of the mountains that they want to be able to change their scheme week to week to exploit the opponent’s weaknesses. Simmons is quite literally the kind of player that can change week to week based on what the team needs, and he can do so at a high level. However, if they put him at ILB routinely, he will get crushed because his instincts are average at best and he plays high. If they put him at EDGE routinely, he will get crushed because he doesn’t have an array of rush moves and he doesn’t use his hands well in that situation. If they put him at safety routinely, he will get crushed because he is high hipped and doesn’t play more athletic than NFL receivers like he did in college.Hmm........only one opinion but its seems this kid needs t be multiple. What if the game plan(s) dont have him as multiple often enough? Not a fan of the "average instincts" at all. With that said seems like a handful of good payers with high upsides later in the draft. I am still of the opinion to go for Thomas as the future LT. All what our very own GL has been saying for every single post, ...haha, and I mean every single post...lol...and he's right. People who believe Simmons is a game changer are going to be sorely disappointed... this guy is NOT a game changer...more, again as GL suggests, more a luxury pick on a defense vs a cornerstone type. IMHO of course.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 3, 2020 10:56:10 GMT -5
This coaching staff yelled from the top of the mountains that they want to be able to change their scheme week to week to exploit the opponent’s weaknesses. Simmons is quite literally the kind of player that can change week to week based on what the team needs, and he can do so at a high level. However, if they put him at ILB routinely, he will get crushed because his instincts are average at best and he plays high. If they put him at EDGE routinely, he will get crushed because he doesn’t have an array of rush moves and he doesn’t use his hands well in that situation. If they put him at safety routinely, he will get crushed because he is high hipped and doesn’t play more athletic than NFL receivers like he did in college.Hmm........only one opinion but its seems this kid needs t be multiple. What if the game plan(s) dont have him as multiple often enough? Not a fan of the "average instincts" at all. With that said seems like a handful of good payers with high upsides later in the draft. I am still of the opinion to go for Thomas as the future LT. All what our very own GL has been saying for every single post, ...haha, and I mean every single post...lol...and he's right. People who believe Simmons is a game changer are going to be sorely disappointed... this guy is NOT a game changer...more, again as GL suggests, more a luxury pick on a defense vs a cornerstone type. IMHO of course. I think you guys are placing too much emphasis on what he can't do instead of what he can do. Picking one or two sentences out of the write up kind of proves the point. To say he is or is not a game changer at the NFL level remains to be seen. He was a game changer at Clemson playing against the top competition. His stats and game tape allude to it. If every prospect was perfect the need for coaches would be irrelevant. His upside is high and he needs to go on a team that values his versatility and strengths. Whether that team is the Giants I don't know but he falls in line with what Judge and the Graham have been preaching.
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Post by fifthavephil on Apr 3, 2020 11:02:28 GMT -5
Malik Harrison, watching OSU this past year . He always was involved in the play. I have seen him mock at round two early third. He looks like a Steelers LB. Unfortunately, Giants won’t be able to draft him. Tanner Muse, I see him as a third day pick and as a WLB.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 3, 2020 11:46:57 GMT -5
All what our very own GL has been saying for every single post, ...haha, and I mean every single post...lol...and he's right. People who believe Simmons is a game changer are going to be sorely disappointed... this guy is NOT a game changer...more, again as GL suggests, more a luxury pick on a defense vs a cornerstone type. IMHO of course. I think you guys are placing too much emphasis on what he can't do instead of what he can do. Picking one or two sentences out of the write up kind of proves the point. To say he is or is not a game changer at the NFL level remains to be seen. He was a game changer at Clemson playing against the top competition. His stats and game tape allude to it. If every prospect was perfect the need for coaches would be irrelevant. His upside is high and he needs to go on a team that values his versatility and strengths. Whether that team is the Giants I don't know but he falls in line with what Judge and the Graham have been preaching. Actually having questionable instincts and some very bad tape showing this blows up the "what can he do" narrative for taking him that early Ask the teams that took Curry or Arrington that early how it worked out(same exact dynamic athletic ability and all the flaws Simmons shows) He is basicly Tim Tebow, an athlete that was a man amongst boys against inferior athletes in college The only difference maker on defense in this draft is Young In fact If someone told me they would light my genitals on fire if I don't take defense at 4 and Young is not am option I'd take Okudah (at least he has a defined role and is really good at a premium position Or Brown ( we could flip Tomlinson for a pick and games are won in the trenches)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2020 14:28:04 GMT -5
All what our very own GL has been saying for every single post, ...haha, and I mean every single post...lol...and he's right. People who believe Simmons is a game changer are going to be sorely disappointed... this guy is NOT a game changer...more, again as GL suggests, more a luxury pick on a defense vs a cornerstone type. IMHO of course. I think you guys are placing too much emphasis on what he can't do instead of what he can do. Picking one or two sentences out of the write up kind of proves the point. To say he is or is not a game changer at the NFL level remains to be seen. He was a game changer at Clemson playing against the top competition. His stats and game tape allude to it. If every prospect was perfect the need for coaches would be irrelevant. His upside is high and he needs to go on a team that values his versatility and strengths. Whether that team is the Giants I don't know but he falls in line with what Judge and the Graham have been preaching. Well, in all fairness...the writer of that report said the exact same thing. Your link...I tend to agree with the quoted text, but also believe he's a nice player overall....not a game wrecker from the edge, not a shutdown half the field corner...a highly athletic tweener on steroids...a good thing.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 3, 2020 14:34:12 GMT -5
I think you guys are placing too much emphasis on what he can't do instead of what he can do. Picking one or two sentences out of the write up kind of proves the point. To say he is or is not a game changer at the NFL level remains to be seen. He was a game changer at Clemson playing against the top competition. His stats and game tape allude to it. If every prospect was perfect the need for coaches would be irrelevant. His upside is high and he needs to go on a team that values his versatility and strengths. Whether that team is the Giants I don't know but he falls in line with what Judge and the Graham have been preaching. Well, in all fairness...the writer of that report said the exact same thing. Your link...I tend to agree with the quoted text, but also believe he's a nice player overall....not a game wrecker from the edge, not a shutdown half the field corner...a highly athletic tweener on steroids...a good thing. You can't take a player like this at 4 over a premium position (or at 6 in a trade back)
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 3, 2020 15:50:23 GMT -5
I think you guys are placing too much emphasis on what he can't do instead of what he can do. Picking one or two sentences out of the write up kind of proves the point. To say he is or is not a game changer at the NFL level remains to be seen. He was a game changer at Clemson playing against the top competition. His stats and game tape allude to it. If every prospect was perfect the need for coaches would be irrelevant. His upside is high and he needs to go on a team that values his versatility and strengths. Whether that team is the Giants I don't know but he falls in line with what Judge and the Graham have been preaching. Well, in all fairness...the writer of that report said the exact same thing. Your link...I tend to agree with the quoted text, but also believe he's a nice player overall....not a game wrecker from the edge, not a shutdown half the field corner...a highly athletic tweener on steroids...a good thing. Understood but the writer also said a lot of other things and still was high on Simmons and had no issues if the Giants used the first pick on him. I am hoping we get an OT but I am not going to be upset at all if Simmons is the pick. Now a WR at 4 might conjure up some expletives.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 3, 2020 16:52:15 GMT -5
Well, in all fairness...the writer of that report said the exact same thing. Your link...I tend to agree with the quoted text, but also believe he's a nice player overall....not a game wrecker from the edge, not a shutdown half the field corner...a highly athletic tweener on steroids...a good thing. Understood but the writer also said a lot of other things and still was high on Simmons and had no issues if the Giants used the first pick on him. I am hoping we get an OT but I am not going to be upset at all if Simmons is the pick. Now a WR at 4 might conjure up some expletives. Yeah same But at the very least while another bad pick based on positional value Both Jeudy and Lamb have much higher floors and at least I could calm down enough that we did adress w major need and have cap flexibility next year with a playmaker on a rookie deal. So I'd be able to come to terms somewhat
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 3, 2020 17:37:01 GMT -5
Understood but the writer also said a lot of other things and still was high on Simmons and had no issues if the Giants used the first pick on him. I am hoping we get an OT but I am not going to be upset at all if Simmons is the pick. Now a WR at 4 might conjure up some expletives. Yeah same But at the very least while another bad pick based on positional value Both Jeudy and Lamb have much higher floors and at least I could calm down enough that we did adress w major need and have cap flexibility next year with a playmaker on a rookie deal. So I'd be able to come to terms somewhat I think lbs are a higher positional value because goods ones don't come around often while WRs are like running backs every year you can find a good one in each round. I also think Simmons is different from most propects because he is positionless. He is the player you create in video games that is good at almost everything. I think he can revolutionize the lb position just like the last lb we picked in the first round. Maybe it is this thought that has me excited most if we drafted him ...I also fear that he might be too versatile and coaches won't know how to use him and it ends up a wasted pick.
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Post by lexington11 on Apr 3, 2020 19:50:55 GMT -5
This coaching staff yelled from the top of the mountains that they want to be able to change their scheme week to week to exploit the opponent’s weaknesses. Simmons is quite literally the kind of player that can change week to week based on what the team needs, and he can do so at a high level. However, if they put him at ILB routinely, he will get crushed because his instincts are average at best and he plays high. If they put him at EDGE routinely, he will get crushed because he doesn’t have an array of rush moves and he doesn’t use his hands well in that situation. If they put him at safety routinely, he will get crushed because he is high hipped and doesn’t play more athletic than NFL receivers like he did in college.Hmm........only one opinion but its seems this kid needs t be multiple. What if the game plan(s) dont have him as multiple often enough? Not a fan of the "average instincts" at all. With that said seems like a handful of good payers with high upsides later in the draft. I am still of the opinion to go for Thomas as the future LT. stop it already lol. We can do this all day. Every player has drawbacks, even young. Andrew Thomas Cons: Doesn’t play with great bend on the perimeter. As the game progresses, his technique will falter a bit and has shown instances of being a waist bender later in games. As a result, shorter pass rushers that can bend and get the edge, have given him some issues on the perimeter. Inside moves and counters presented some adversity in the LSU game. Has sufficient anticipatory instincts on twists and games. Needs to become more consistent handling the cross face. Has sufficient range for the position. He can play OT in the NFL but may be best suited to play inside at OG. I don’t want a guy who’s gonna get pushed around and not hold up in passing game, a big weakness of his. And he might be better suited as a guard. See how that works?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 4, 2020 6:07:45 GMT -5
Malik Harrison, watching OSU this past year . He always was involved in the play. I have seen him mock at round two early third. He looks like a Steelers LB. Unfortunately, Giants won’t be able to draft him. Tanner Muse, I see him as a third day pick and as a WLB. I like Harrison a lot. Underrated from what I see. Tanner Muse? Nah. I was interested in him before this past season but after watching him in 2019, no thanks.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 4, 2020 6:15:53 GMT -5
This coaching staff yelled from the top of the mountains that they want to be able to change their scheme week to week to exploit the opponent’s weaknesses. Simmons is quite literally the kind of player that can change week to week based on what the team needs, and he can do so at a high level. However, if they put him at ILB routinely, he will get crushed because his instincts are average at best and he plays high. If they put him at EDGE routinely, he will get crushed because he doesn’t have an array of rush moves and he doesn’t use his hands well in that situation. If they put him at safety routinely, he will get crushed because he is high hipped and doesn’t play more athletic than NFL receivers like he did in college.Hmm........only one opinion but its seems this kid needs t be multiple. What if the game plan(s) dont have him as multiple often enough? Not a fan of the "average instincts" at all. With that said seems like a handful of good payers with high upsides later in the draft. I am still of the opinion to go for Thomas as the future LT. stop it already lol. We can do this all day. Every player has drawbacks, even young. Andrew Thomas Cons: Doesn’t play with great bend on the perimeter. As the game progresses, his technique will falter a bit and has shown instances of being a waist bender later in games. As a result, shorter pass rushers that can bend and get the edge, have given him some issues on the perimeter. Inside moves and counters presented some adversity in the LSU game. Has sufficient anticipatory instincts on twists and games. Needs to become more consistent handling the cross face. Has sufficient range for the position. He can play OT in the NFL but may be best suited to play inside at OG. I don’t want a guy who’s gonna get pushed around and not hold up in passing game, a big weakness of his. And he might be better suited as a guard. See how that works? why stop?? I like Thomas at 4 out of all the OTs up for grabs. I like 2 of OTs, with Wills being the other one, at 4 instead of Simmons. Its just my opinion. Would go for Chase Young at 4 if he was there of course. Trade back a few spots and still take Simmons is another option or an OT depending whose there. The Giants need a handful of key pieces. How one wants to get those pieces is all subjective. BTW where did you get that info on Thomas. I am genuinely interested. I did a bunch of reading on the top Olinmen for the draft and I dont recall one ever saying he'd be better suited as an OG.. Read that about Wirfs a few times but not the other top three.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Apr 4, 2020 6:18:29 GMT -5
This coaching staff yelled from the top of the mountains that they want to be able to change their scheme week to week to exploit the opponent’s weaknesses. Simmons is quite literally the kind of player that can change week to week based on what the team needs, and he can do so at a high level. However, if they put him at ILB routinely, he will get crushed because his instincts are average at best and he plays high. If they put him at EDGE routinely, he will get crushed because he doesn’t have an array of rush moves and he doesn’t use his hands well in that situation. If they put him at safety routinely, he will get crushed because he is high hipped and doesn’t play more athletic than NFL receivers like he did in college.Hmm........only one opinion but its seems this kid needs t be multiple. What if the game plan(s) dont have him as multiple often enough? Not a fan of the "average instincts" at all. With that said seems like a handful of good payers with high upsides later in the draft. I am still of the opinion to go for Thomas as the future LT. stop it already lol. We can do this all day. Every player has drawbacks, even young. Andrew Thomas Cons: Doesn’t play with great bend on the perimeter. As the game progresses, his technique will falter a bit and has shown instances of being a waist bender later in games. As a result, shorter pass rushers that can bend and get the edge, have given him some issues on the perimeter. Inside moves and counters presented some adversity in the LSU game. Has sufficient anticipatory instincts on twists and games. Needs to become more consistent handling the cross face. Has sufficient range for the position. He can play OT in the NFL but may be best suited to play inside at OG. I don’t want a guy who’s gonna get pushed around and not hold up in passing game, a big weakness of his. And he might be better suited as a guard. See how that works? Yes, there are negatives written on every player because every player has negatives. I probably watched Georgia 7 times this past season. I loved what I saw from Thomas in every game. IMO he is the real deal. Legit LT prospect. I have also seen Simmons in quite a few games watching Clemson. I liked what I saw there too, but there are times he looks pretty lost out there. And I was very high on him at one point. At times he looked like he was a role player IMO. What does this mean? Not much. We have to trust the evaluators from Judges team and how they would use each player specifically. We dont know the systems that will be implemented much at all.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 4, 2020 23:19:13 GMT -5
stop it already lol. We can do this all day. Every player has drawbacks, even young. Andrew Thomas Cons: Doesn’t play with great bend on the perimeter. As the game progresses, his technique will falter a bit and has shown instances of being a waist bender later in games. As a result, shorter pass rushers that can bend and get the edge, have given him some issues on the perimeter. Inside moves and counters presented some adversity in the LSU game. Has sufficient anticipatory instincts on twists and games. Needs to become more consistent handling the cross face. Has sufficient range for the position. He can play OT in the NFL but may be best suited to play inside at OG. I don’t want a guy who’s gonna get pushed around and not hold up in passing game, a big weakness of his. And he might be better suited as a guard. See how that works? why stop?? I like Thomas at 4 out of all the OTs up for grabs. I like 2 of OTs, with Wills being the other one, at 4 instead of Simmons. Its just my opinion. Would go for Chase Young at 4 if he was there of course. Trade back a few spots and still take Simmons is another option or an OT depending whose there. The Giants need a handful of key pieces. How one wants to get those pieces is all subjective. BTW where did you get that info on Thomas. I am genuinely interested. I did a bunch of reading on the top Olinmen for the draft and I dont recall one ever saying he'd be better suited as an OG.. Read that about Wirfs a few times but not the other top three. Because there are some actual sound and known evaluators that are basically agreeing with what many of us who don't want this guy at 4 are saying and it ruins his confirmation bias. So he finds some unknown hack to downgrade a great OT prospect that is nowhere near being true.. If Simmons was so great why was he not invited to the Heisman ceremony when the only actual game changer on defense was (Young)?
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Post by GameTime on Apr 5, 2020 5:51:19 GMT -5
why stop?? I like Thomas at 4 out of all the OTs up for grabs. I like 2 of OTs, with Wills being the other one, at 4 instead of Simmons. Its just my opinion. Would go for Chase Young at 4 if he was there of course. Trade back a few spots and still take Simmons is another option or an OT depending whose there. The Giants need a handful of key pieces. How one wants to get those pieces is all subjective. BTW where did you get that info on Thomas. I am genuinely interested. I did a bunch of reading on the top Olinmen for the draft and I dont recall one ever saying he'd be better suited as an OG.. Read that about Wirfs a few times but not the other top three. Because there are some actual sound and known evaluators that are basically agreeing with what many of us who don't want this guy at 4 are saying and it ruins his confirmation bias. So he finds some unknown hack to downgrade a great OT prospect that is nowhere near being true.. If Simmons was so great why was he not invited to the Heisman ceremony when the only actual game changer on defense was (Young)? or its simply others have different opinions. No need to get all uppity about it... I like Simmons and he feel he will be a very good NFL player. If the Giants go that route I wont be that upset and I dont think it will "set the franchise back" as others may think. Maybe I am wrong and maybe I'm not I just like the idea of getting an OT better since to me it makes more sense at this point in time.
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Post by infinite420 on Apr 5, 2020 9:15:04 GMT -5
All what our very own GL has been saying for every single post, ...haha, and I mean every single post...lol...and he's right. People who believe Simmons is a game changer are going to be sorely disappointed... this guy is NOT a game changer...more, again as GL suggests, more a luxury pick on a defense vs a cornerstone type. IMHO of course. I think you guys are placing too much emphasis on what he can't do instead of what he can do. Picking one or two sentences out of the write up kind of proves the point. To say he is or is not a game changer at the NFL level remains to be seen. He was a game changer at Clemson playing against the top competition. His stats and game tape allude to it. If every prospect was perfect the need for coaches would be irrelevant. His upside is high and he needs to go on a team that values his versatility and strengths. Whether that team is the Giants I don't know but he falls in line with what Judge and the Graham have been preaching. NFL teams are really good at exposing what a player CANT do. With Simmons, he doesnt play the run well. Just imagine Evan Engram playing LB, and then imagine him trying not to get washed out by a Guard blocking him at the second level. It will NEVER happen. Evan Engram 6'4, 240. Isiaiah Simmons 6'5, 238. The guy is too lanky for a LB, so he going to have major leverage issues. Hes not physical, were not talking a Patrick Willis, hell hes no Jon Beason even. Best case scenario he can be a Kam Chancellor type, hybrid SS/LB, similar to moneybacker, like a bigger Deon Buchannon, but thats best case IMO. You dont ever take a Deon Jones over a Julio Jones, ever. Off the ball LBs have very little impact on games, only loser organizations get caught up in shiny toys. Time to go with the substance pick, OT.
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 5, 2020 10:01:23 GMT -5
I think you guys are placing too much emphasis on what he can't do instead of what he can do. Picking one or two sentences out of the write up kind of proves the point. To say he is or is not a game changer at the NFL level remains to be seen. He was a game changer at Clemson playing against the top competition. His stats and game tape allude to it. If every prospect was perfect the need for coaches would be irrelevant. His upside is high and he needs to go on a team that values his versatility and strengths. Whether that team is the Giants I don't know but he falls in line with what Judge and the Graham have been preaching. NFL teams are really good at exposing what a player CANT do. With Simmons, he doesnt play the run well. Just imagine Evan Engram playing LB, and then imagine him trying not to get washed out by a Guard blocking him at the second level. It will NEVER happen. Evan Engram 6'4, 240. Isiaiah Simmons 6'5, 238. The guy is too lanky for a LB, so he going to have major leverage issues. Hes not physical, were not talking a Patrick Willis, hell hes no Jon Beason even. Best case scenario he can be a Kam Chancellor type, hybrid SS/LB, similar to moneybacker, like a bigger Deon Buchannon, but thats best case IMO. You dont ever take a Deon Jones over a Julio Jones, ever. Off the ball LBs have very little impact on games, only loser organizations get caught up in shiny toys. Time to go with the substance pick, OT. Yes if you stick him at ILB and turn him into a traditional linebacker I agree. If he is matched up with a creative DC that can scheme around him then he will be a game-changer like he was at Clemson. Similar to Lamar Jackson awesome athlete decent Qb put him with the right coach and the sky's the limit. I bet you if you looks at all the times he was blocked by a OL vs. the positive plays he made it would be minuscule in comparison. Also he is usually beats the OL to spot to make the play it is rare that he puts his head in there to take on on a block. You kind of also allude to why I think he is a risk because our coaches won't be able to figure him out and he would be taken advantage of other coaches exposing his weaknesses.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 10:06:29 GMT -5
NFL teams are really good at exposing what a player CANT do. With Simmons, he doesnt play the run well. Just imagine Evan Engram playing LB, and then imagine him trying not to get washed out by a Guard blocking him at the second level. It will NEVER happen. Evan Engram 6'4, 240. Isiaiah Simmons 6'5, 238. The guy is too lanky for a LB, so he going to have major leverage issues. Hes not physical, were not talking a Patrick Willis, hell hes no Jon Beason even. Best case scenario he can be a Kam Chancellor type, hybrid SS/LB, similar to moneybacker, like a bigger Deon Buchannon, but thats best case IMO. You dont ever take a Deon Jones over a Julio Jones, ever. Off the ball LBs have very little impact on games, only loser organizations get caught up in shiny toys. Time to go with the substance pick, OT. Yes if you stick him at ILB and turn him into a traditional linebacker I agree. If he is matched up with a creative DC that can scheme around him then he will be a game-changer like he was at Clemson. Similar to Lamar Jackson awesome athlete decent Qb put him with the right coach and the sky's the limit. I bet you if you looks at all the times he was blocked by a OL vs. the positive plays he made it would be minuscule in comparison. Also he is usually beats the OL to spot to make the play it is rare that he puts his head in there to take on on a block. You kind of also allude to why I think he is a risk because our coaches won't be able to figure him out and he would be taken advantage of other coaches exposing his weaknesses. Even someone who has a plan and such... It would take 2 to 3 years for him to even be good..look how.long it's taking teams how to use Peppers.. How do you think this fanbase will react if we take him at 4,miss out on all the good tackles because all the value is gone by 36,Jones is not developing because he now hears footsteps by week 12 this year and it's the same in 2021 and Simmons is still figuring out what he is.. That's the problem If we want an instant upgrade ILB figure out either how to trade back with Oakland or a trade back up into the 1st if the team thinks that's such a dire need (personally it's over blown because we have fortified it this year and even a round 3-4 pick will be good)
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Post by nygfanstrick on Apr 5, 2020 10:30:46 GMT -5
I think you guys are placing too much emphasis on what he can't do instead of what he can do. Picking one or two sentences out of the write up kind of proves the point. To say he is or is not a game changer at the NFL level remains to be seen. He was a game changer at Clemson playing against the top competition. His stats and game tape allude to it. If every prospect was perfect the need for coaches would be irrelevant. His upside is high and he needs to go on a team that values his versatility and strengths. Whether that team is the Giants I don't know but he falls in line with what Judge and the Graham have been preaching. NFL teams are really good at exposing what a player CANT do. With Simmons, he doesnt play the run well. Just imagine Evan Engram playing LB, and then imagine him trying not to get washed out by a Guard blocking him at the second level. It will NEVER happen. Evan Engram 6'4, 240. Isiaiah Simmons 6'5, 238. The guy is too lanky for a LB, so he going to have major leverage issues. Hes not physical, were not talking a Patrick Willis, hell hes no Jon Beason even. Best case scenario he can be a Kam Chancellor type, hybrid SS/LB, similar to moneybacker, like a bigger Deon Buchannon, but thats best case IMO. You dont ever take a Deon Jones over a Julio Jones, ever. Off the ball LBs have very little impact on games, only loser organizations get caught up in shiny toys. Time to go with the substance pick, OT. To be fair at the combine he measured in at 6’4 238 and Luke Kuechly measured in at 6’3 242. I’m not comparing them as players to each other but to automatically assume he’s too lanky doesn’t make much sense to me. Now Simmons at 4 as far as value is valid to question, but I think he can be a LB in the league. I don’t see him being forced to be a hybrid player. I think he can be used in multiple ways, but I think that’s a benefit more than anything. I’m still on board for OT in round one, but if they picked Simmons I would understand it and obviously they would seem to have a plan in place where he was too good for them to pass up. There are hybrid players like Chinn and Dugger who can be had rounds 2/3 if they did go OT round one and it would be hard to tell what would be a better option doing that or going Simmons and a second round OT
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Post by bluebuddha on Apr 5, 2020 10:57:17 GMT -5
Yes if you stick him at ILB and turn him into a traditional linebacker I agree. If he is matched up with a creative DC that can scheme around him then he will be a game-changer like he was at Clemson. Similar to Lamar Jackson awesome athlete decent Qb put him with the right coach and the sky's the limit. I bet you if you looks at all the times he was blocked by a OL vs. the positive plays he made it would be minuscule in comparison. Also he is usually beats the OL to spot to make the play it is rare that he puts his head in there to take on on a block. You kind of also allude to why I think he is a risk because our coaches won't be able to figure him out and he would be taken advantage of other coaches exposing his weaknesses. Even someone who has a plan and such... It would take 2 to 3 years for him to even be good..look how.long it's taking teams how to use Peppers.. How do you think this fanbase will react if we take him at 4,miss out on all the good tackles because all the value is gone by 36,Jones is not developing because he now hears footsteps by week 12 this year and it's the same in 2021 and Simmons is still figuring out what he is.. That's the problem If we want an instant upgrade ILB figure out either how to trade back with Oakland or a trade back up into the 1st if the team thinks that's such a dire need (personally it's over blown because we have fortified it this year and even a round 3-4 pick will be good) No the Clemson coaches devised an awsome scheme to use his skills and won a National Champioship with that scheme. So it is possible to win with him in short amount of time. At the same time I agree Jones needs more help currently and in the future that is reason I am hoping the Giants get him a OL that can grow with him but I am not going nitpick and convince myself to crap on a great talent like Simmons.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 11:19:59 GMT -5
NFL teams are really good at exposing what a player CANT do. With Simmons, he doesnt play the run well. Just imagine Evan Engram playing LB, and then imagine him trying not to get washed out by a Guard blocking him at the second level. It will NEVER happen. Evan Engram 6'4, 240. Isiaiah Simmons 6'5, 238. The guy is too lanky for a LB, so he going to have major leverage issues. Hes not physical, were not talking a Patrick Willis, hell hes no Jon Beason even. Best case scenario he can be a Kam Chancellor type, hybrid SS/LB, similar to moneybacker, like a bigger Deon Buchannon, but thats best case IMO. You dont ever take a Deon Jones over a Julio Jones, ever. Off the ball LBs have very little impact on games, only loser organizations get caught up in shiny toys. Time to go with the substance pick, OT. To be fair at the combine he measured in at 6’4 238 and Luke Kuechly measured in at 6’3 242. I’m not comparing them as players to each other but to automatically assume he’s too lanky doesn’t make much sense to me. Now Simmons at 4 as far as value is valid to question, but I think he can be a LB in the league. I don’t see him being forced to be a hybrid player. I think he can be used in multiple ways, but I think that’s a benefit more than anything. I’m still on board for OT in round one, but if they picked Simmons I would understand it and obviously they would seem to have a plan in place where he was too good for them to pass up. There are hybrid players like Chinn and Dugger who can be had rounds 2/3 if they did go OT round one and it would be hard to tell what would b e a better option doing that or going Simmons and a second round OT Here is the thing There are hybrid players as you said that have his skillsets in the 2nd through 4th rounds where you can justify experimenting with a player such as this while locking down one of your tackle spots for the next 10 to 15 years (people forget RT is now just as important as LT because teams now move their pass rushers to the weak link...look how often Kahlil Mack line up over RT,and stunts into the face of the qb cause more turnovers it could be argued than blindside pass rush) Or take the high risk experiment at 4 which may or may not work out and possibly even miss out on any tackle this year because that position is picked bare clean by pick 36 The risk is not worth it Worst case scenario we pick 18 next year after a 9-7 record and there is another hybrid player there and we have our offense set for 7 years,have our D line set for 5,some of our younger players stepped up,we paid for an impact FA on defense with money saved by taking said OT and letting Soldier go... That's when you make this move.. And Chancellor was a 4th round pick...who many compare Simmons to. This is where you find guys like this
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 5, 2020 11:30:16 GMT -5
Even someone who has a plan and such... It would take 2 to 3 years for him to even be good..look how.long it's taking teams how to use Peppers.. How do you think this fanbase will react if we take him at 4,miss out on all the good tackles because all the value is gone by 36,Jones is not developing because he now hears footsteps by week 12 this year and it's the same in 2021 and Simmons is still figuring out what he is.. That's the problem If we want an instant upgrade ILB figure out either how to trade back with Oakland or a trade back up into the 1st if the team thinks that's such a dire need (personally it's over blown because we have fortified it this year and even a round 3-4 pick will be good) No the Clemson coaches devised an awsome scheme to use his skills and won a National Champioship with that scheme. So it is possible to win with him in short amount of time. At the same time I agree Jones needs more help currently and in the future that is reason I am hoping the Giants get him a OL that can grow with him but I am not going nitpick and convince myself to crap on a great talent like Simmons. I'm glad I'm not the one making this decision. But I dont understand the logic against an LB who has great speed and coverage skills and who can also run down RBs from behind. Lack of these kind of skills is something we have been absolutely getting killed by for years. It has lost us many, many games. Seems like some of the same peeps that are constantly preaching how the "game has changed" are adamant that we cant take a "tweener."
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 5, 2020 11:41:12 GMT -5
No the Clemson coaches devised an awsome scheme to use his skills and won a National Champioship with that scheme. So it is possible to win with him in short amount of time. At the same time I agree Jones needs more help currently and in the future that is reason I am hoping the Giants get him a OL that can grow with him but I am not going nitpick and convince myself to crap on a great talent like Simmons. I'm glad I'm not the one making this decision. But I dont understand the logic against an LB who has great speed and coverage skills, who can also run down RBs from behind. Lack of this ability is something we have been absolutely getting killed by for years. Lack of this has lost us many, many games. Seems like some of the same peeps that are constantly preaching how the "game has changed" are adamant that we cant take a "tweener." Not at 4 when he has questionable football instincts,can't get off of blocks even against TEs and a few WRs,and more importantly being a non premium position when we have a dire need for 2 high players at a premium position and we probably have an extremely rare occurrence to have the pick of the litter even at 6 at some of the most advanced at this position fundamentally to come out in years,which more importantly helps our most important young player (Jones)develop quickly,when passing on said player at premium position puts us at high risk of completely missing out on one when that position is picked clean I can't wrap my head around why any fan of this team,who has seen our O line suck for so long and finally be in the position to adress this even with a trade back,would be more than willing to risk missing out on a Golden chance to finally fix this with some incredible prospects And yes the game has changed to a modern fast paced speed based game on both sides of the ball,but the one major constant is that if you dont control the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball you are never going to be more than a 6-10 team no matter how many toys and weapons you have on both sides of the ball,which Simmons is just as much as a Lamb or Jeudy. Plain and simple... Even the few still stuck in 1989 and want to go back to prehistoric goober ball.. You still need a really good O line..... And again If Young goes to Washington,how does Simmons help combat this ?
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