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Post by TCHOF on Apr 7, 2020 19:42:59 GMT -5
This deal couldn't even be considered without Yannick agreeing to a long term deal with us as part of the trade. If we get Yannick (and sign him) plus a third round pick, and use pick number 9 to take an OT? Damn, that would be pretty nice. Or it turns into another Williams trade It wouldn’t turn into a Williams trade if you sign him to an extension as part of the deal
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 14:54:07 GMT -5
Or it turns into another Williams trade It wouldn’t turn into a Williams trade if you sign him to an extension as part of the deal Yeah I know and hopefully we learned from that trade. Honestly I like it but am cautious about DG’s questionable signings not including his drafts. Those I like
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 8, 2020 15:13:03 GMT -5
I would do this in the blink of an eye.
We could walk away from the draft with 1 if the fab 4 or Simmons in the 1st
Ruiz, Cushenberry, Biadasz, or whatever WR falls in the 2
An additional pick in the 3rd
AND 1 of the best young pass rushers in the game!?!?!?!
SIGN ME UP!!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 16:07:40 GMT -5
I would do this in the blink of an eye. We could walk away from the draft with 1 if the fab 4 or Simmons in the 1st Ruiz, Cushenberry, Biadasz, or whatever WR falls in the 2 An additional pick in the 3rd AND 1 of the best young pass rushers in the game!?!?!?! SIGN ME UP!!! I wonder how much he would want and do we even have the cash
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 16:32:37 GMT -5
I would do this in the blink of an eye. We could walk away from the draft with 1 if the fab 4 or Simmons in the 1st Ruiz, Cushenberry, Biadasz, or whatever WR falls in the 2 An additional pick in the 3rd AND 1 of the best young pass rushers in the game!?!?!?! SIGN ME UP!!! haha...I remember you talking me into Yannick as a free agent a while back. I'm not sure if we were giving them pick 99 or we were getting a 3...giving them a 3 I would not do it. Getting one makes it interesting.
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Post by TEM on Apr 8, 2020 17:32:26 GMT -5
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Post by nygfanstrick on Apr 8, 2020 18:39:27 GMT -5
I’d be lying if I wouldn’t be excited as hell at the idea of having a player of Yannick’s ability on this team. He would make things much easier for DB’s and LB’s in coverage, the DL rushing the passer, etc. It would be very intriguing especially since on paper we have a lot of very good run defenders on the roster. That’s not one of his strong suits, I think the other players may be able to mask that deficiency a bit while he’s able to dramatically improve the pass rush.
The idea of walking out of the draft with a fab 4 OT, a new center, AND a premier PROVEN pass rusher in the NFL would be exciting. Tbh if they made a deal like that I could really see DG pulling the trigger on a Derrick Brown or Javon Kinlaw in round one to make up for losing Williams. Don’t get me wrong both are very very good players, but we need OL help badly. I’d rather draft someone later and hope coaching can help BJ Hill bounce back from a down year 2
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 21:48:06 GMT -5
Wow. That’s high but we don’t really have any huge contracts once solder is gone
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Post by TEM on Apr 9, 2020 7:10:49 GMT -5
Wow. That’s high but we don’t really have any huge contracts once solder is gone For his production. It is 14 too high.
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 9, 2020 7:29:48 GMT -5
So my question again with Yannik What exactly does he do well that he deserves a 100 million dollar contract? I'd actually be more enthusiastic about the 3rd round pick thrown in I know he creates turnovers, and that's quite an appealing aspect.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 9, 2020 7:49:38 GMT -5
Wow. That’s high but we don’t really have any huge contracts once solder is gone The thing is that we need the 3 man D line intact to make this work ..and then Tomlinson coming up we again are in the DT hamster wheel.... I get it..no Soldier and Tate next year..that clears 30 million and we have cap space next year... Either way we have to pay a DT next year, I mean In effect we get our 3rd back we gave to the Jets and a player making that kind of money a year that isn't close to producing like a 20 million dollar a year guy and a major hole at DT now,so now that has to be adressed. Too much movement and money to basicly be status quo...
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 9, 2020 7:59:47 GMT -5
Wow. That’s high but we don’t really have any huge contracts once solder is gone The thing is that we need the 3 man D line intact to make this work ..and then Tomlinson coming up we again are in the DT hamster wheel.... I get it..no Soldier and Tate next year..that clears 30 million and we have cap space next year... Either way we have to pay a DT next year, I mean In effect we get our 3rd back we gave to the Jets and a player making that kind of money a year that isn't close to producing like a 20 million dollar a year guy and a major hole at DT now,so now that has to be adressed. Too much movement and money to basicly be status quo... It's been stated the defense will switch around 3-4, 4-3 base this upcoming season. Assuming the personnel are pretty set, Williams gets a contract, the LBers being mostly tackling strong, no big draft splurge - can you see a bit more of the 4-3 being better implemented?
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 9, 2020 8:20:04 GMT -5
The thing is that we need the 3 man D line intact to make this work ..and then Tomlinson coming up we again are in the DT hamster wheel.... I get it..no Soldier and Tate next year..that clears 30 million and we have cap space next year... Either way we have to pay a DT next year, I mean In effect we get our 3rd back we gave to the Jets and a player making that kind of money a year that isn't close to producing like a 20 million dollar a year guy and a major hole at DT now,so now that has to be adressed. Too much movement and money to basicly be status quo... It's been stated the defense will switch around 3-4, 4-3 base this upcoming season. Assuming the personnel are pretty set, Williams gets a contract, the LBers being mostly tackling strong, no big draft splurge - can you see a bit more of the 4-3 being better implemented? With or without Yannick? Yannick I think can play both... They don't have the personal to go back to a straight 4-3 if they swap Williams to Yannick because who plays the otherside 4/3 ? This is where I see the problem with this swap.. Right now they can be a nice amoeba style...as long as they keep a 3 man base at all times and don't do Betcher shit and go 2 DTs and force undersized edge guys as down DEs I think the front 7 is kinda OK(better utalage of Carter,Martinez seems to be a major upgrade over Tree..Connelly coming back..year 2 of Xman,Frackell..and maybe a day 2 pickup at edge..)
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Post by TEM on Apr 9, 2020 8:33:02 GMT -5
It's been stated the defense will switch around 3-4, 4-3 base this upcoming season. Assuming the personnel are pretty set, Williams gets a contract, the LBers being mostly tackling strong, no big draft splurge - can you see a bit more of the 4-3 being better implemented? With or without Yannick? Yannick I think can play both... They don't have the personal to go back to a straight 4-3 if they swap Williams to Yannick because who plays the otherside 4/3 ? This is where I see the problem with this swap.. Right now they can be a nice amoeba style...as long as they keep a 3 man base at all times and don't do Betcher shit and go 2 DTs and force undersized edge guys as down DEs I think the front 7 is kinda OK(better utalage of Carter,Martinez seems to be a major upgrade over Tree..Connelly coming back..year 2 of Xman,Frackell..and maybe a day 2 pickup at edge..) Grahams base D is a 3-4. What he was doing in Miami last year. I do not see us changing that.
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 9, 2020 8:34:57 GMT -5
With or without Yannick? Yannick I think can play both... They don't have the personal to go back to a straight 4-3 if they swap Williams to Yannick because who plays the otherside 4/3 ? This is where I see the problem with this swap.. Right now they can be a nice amoeba style...as long as they keep a 3 man base at all times and don't do Betcher shit and go 2 DTs and force undersized edge guys as down DEs I think the front 7 is kinda OK(better utalage of Carter,Martinez seems to be a major upgrade over Tree..Connelly coming back..year 2 of Xman,Frackell..and maybe a day 2 pickup at edge..) Grahams base D is a 3-4. What he was doing in Miami last year. I do not see us changing that. That's what I thought...
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 9, 2020 8:43:06 GMT -5
It's been stated the defense will switch around 3-4, 4-3 base this upcoming season. Assuming the personnel are pretty set, Williams gets a contract, the LBers being mostly tackling strong, no big draft splurge - can you see a bit more of the 4-3 being better implemented? With or without Yannick? Yannick I think can play both... They don't have the personal to go back to a straight 4-3 if they swap Williams to Yannick because who plays the otherside 4/3 ? This is where I see the problem with this swap.. Right now they can be a nice amoeba style...as long as they keep a 3 man base at all times and don't do Betcher shit and go 2 DTs and force undersized edge guys as down DEs I think the front 7 is kinda OK(better utalage of Carter,Martinez seems to be a major upgrade over Tree..Connelly coming back..year 2 of Xman,Frackell..and maybe a day 2 pickup at edge..) I think they want to be able to maintain a 4-3 base for some entire games - as it was stated it would be determined by the opponent each week. So I'm trying to see what the assessment on Yannick being capable of that, switching around as a full time player would be? I think Williams, or someone similar, still needs to be retained/acquired.
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 9, 2020 8:44:28 GMT -5
Grahams base D is a 3-4. What he was doing in Miami last year. I do not see us changing that. That's what I thought... Wasn't there something within the Judge interviews/Graham hiring that indicated otherwise?
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Post by TEM on Apr 9, 2020 8:54:48 GMT -5
Wasn't there something within the Judge interviews/Graham hiring that indicated otherwise? Even what we did in FA signing Fackrell suggests our base is a 3-4. He doesn't play with his hand on the ground.
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 9, 2020 9:20:24 GMT -5
Wasn't there something within the Judge interviews/Graham hiring that indicated otherwise? Even what we did in FA signing Fackrell suggests our base is a 3-4. He doesn't play with his hand on the ground. Someone like Fackrell might not be considered an every down player. This was something in regard to the interviews a while back, that I was referring to:
"In comes Patrick Graham, one of the latest additions to new head coach Joe Judge’s staff. Graham will be taking over the duties of defensive coordinator. When asked about which scheme Graham would be using, he simply replied “yes”, which was obviously a cute response to signify there would be no set scheme. Graham believes in using multiple schemes, which is something that will snowball into this ideology of versatility, which makes a lot of sense.
Ideally, you want to scheme according to the team that you’re playing that week. It makes little sense to come out in a 3-4 or 5-2 defensive scheme when you’re going up against a pass-heavy team; you need to be able to adjust week to week and place your players in the best position to win. Something that sounds so obvious has been lacking desperately within this team in recent years."
I recall something else, posted here - where Judge specifically spoke of utilizing the 4-3 base against certain opponents.
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Post by TEM on Apr 9, 2020 9:51:10 GMT -5
Even what we did in FA signing Fackrell suggests our base is a 3-4. He doesn't play with his hand on the ground. Someone like Fackrell might not be considered an every down player. This was something in regard to the interviews a while back, that I was referring to:
"In comes Patrick Graham, one of the latest additions to new head coach Joe Judge’s staff. Graham will be taking over the duties of defensive coordinator. When asked about which scheme Graham would be using, he simply replied “yes”, which was obviously a cute response to signify there would be no set scheme. Graham believes in using multiple schemes, which is something that will snowball into this ideology of versatility, which makes a lot of sense.
Ideally, you want to scheme according to the team that you’re playing that week. It makes little sense to come out in a 3-4 or 5-2 defensive scheme when you’re going up against a pass-heavy team; you need to be able to adjust week to week and place your players in the best position to win. Something that sounds so obvious has been lacking desperately within this team in recent years."
I recall something else, posted here - where Judge specifically spoke of utilizing the 4-3 base against certain opponents.
Can you provide a link to that quote.
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 9, 2020 10:06:22 GMT -5
Someone like Fackrell might not be considered an every down player. This was something in regard to the interviews a while back, that I was referring to:
"In comes Patrick Graham, one of the latest additions to new head coach Joe Judge’s staff. Graham will be taking over the duties of defensive coordinator. When asked about which scheme Graham would be using, he simply replied “yes”, which was obviously a cute response to signify there would be no set scheme. Graham believes in using multiple schemes, which is something that will snowball into this ideology of versatility, which makes a lot of sense.
Ideally, you want to scheme according to the team that you’re playing that week. It makes little sense to come out in a 3-4 or 5-2 defensive scheme when you’re going up against a pass-heavy team; you need to be able to adjust week to week and place your players in the best position to win. Something that sounds so obvious has been lacking desperately within this team in recent years."
I recall something else, posted here - where Judge specifically spoke of utilizing the 4-3 base against certain opponents.
Can you provide a link to that quote. I did a search, and found this on something called Giantswire, I also recall it being posted here previously::
"And on defense?
“It’s the same across the board. Listen, we’re going to play whatever is best for our team and our personnel. 3-4, 4-3, man coverage, zone coverage, we’ll find out what fits us best and we’ll wait until we play against our opponents. Running the ball, throwing the ball, it’s, again, whatever is best week by week by opponent is how we’ll address it,” he said.
While most coaches try to force a system or scheme down their players’ throats, Judge is taking a different approach. He feels he can coach any style of football. As long as the fundamentals are in place and the players are all on the same page, the scheme won’t matter."
Honestly, I don't know the correct way to provide a link. I know there's some forum rule and on the old boards some were sticklers about it. Maybe it becomes necessary with those who are combative or opinionated, I think you know I'm just trying to learn and then contribute where I can.
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 9, 2020 10:13:33 GMT -5
Can you provide a link to that quote. I did a search, and found this on something called Giantswire, I also recall it being posted here previously::
"And on defense?
“It’s the same across the board. Listen, we’re going to play whatever is best for our team and our personnel. 3-4, 4-3, man coverage, zone coverage, we’ll find out what fits us best and we’ll wait until we play against our opponents. Running the ball, throwing the ball, it’s, again, whatever is best week by week by opponent is how we’ll address it,” he said.
While most coaches try to force a system or scheme down their players’ throats, Judge is taking a different approach. He feels he can coach any style of football. As long as the fundamentals are in place and the players are all on the same page, the scheme won’t matter."
Honestly, I don't know the correct way to provide a link. I know there's some forum rule and on the old boards some were sticklers about it. Maybe it becomes necessary with those who are combative or opinionated, I think you know I'm just trying to learn and then contribute where I can.
Thank god we have a HC that understand this. Our backfield last year was a perfect example of a scheme being forced on players who couldnt execute it.
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 9, 2020 10:19:20 GMT -5
I did a search, and found this on something called Giantswire, I also recall it being posted here previously::
"And on defense?
“It’s the same across the board. Listen, we’re going to play whatever is best for our team and our personnel. 3-4, 4-3, man coverage, zone coverage, we’ll find out what fits us best and we’ll wait until we play against our opponents. Running the ball, throwing the ball, it’s, again, whatever is best week by week by opponent is how we’ll address it,” he said.
While most coaches try to force a system or scheme down their players’ throats, Judge is taking a different approach. He feels he can coach any style of football. As long as the fundamentals are in place and the players are all on the same page, the scheme won’t matter."
Honestly, I don't know the correct way to provide a link. I know there's some forum rule and on the old boards some were sticklers about it. Maybe it becomes necessary with those who are combative or opinionated, I think you know I'm just trying to learn and then contribute where I can.
Thank god we have a HC that understand this. Our backfield last year was a perfect example of a scheme being forced on players who couldnt execute it. Yep. But I'm not sure if the scheme changes in the front 7 heavily effect how the CBs play in zone or man, maybe the safeties though...again, trying to learn.
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Post by TEM on Apr 9, 2020 10:22:47 GMT -5
Can you provide a link to that quote. I did a search, and found this on something called Giantswire, I also recall it being posted here previously::
"And on defense?
“It’s the same across the board. Listen, we’re going to play whatever is best for our team and our personnel. 3-4, 4-3, man coverage, zone coverage, we’ll find out what fits us best and we’ll wait until we play against our opponents. Running the ball, throwing the ball, it’s, again, whatever is best week by week by opponent is how we’ll address it,” he said.
While most coaches try to force a system or scheme down their players’ throats, Judge is taking a different approach. He feels he can coach any style of football. As long as the fundamentals are in place and the players are all on the same page, the scheme won’t matter."
Honestly, I don't know the correct way to provide a link. I know there's some forum rule and on the old boards some were sticklers about it. Maybe it becomes necessary with those who are combative or opinionated, I think you know I'm just trying to learn and then contribute where I can.
I wasn't being combative. I was just carious on changing the Defensive formation . I agree you should not force a system down the players throats. As it stands right now. Our personnel is more in tune with a 3-4 with our exterior and interior LBs . That does not mean we won't use highbred formations from a base 3-4 Graham has done that in his schemas on passing downs.
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 9, 2020 10:29:16 GMT -5
I did a search, and found this on something called Giantswire, I also recall it being posted here previously::
"And on defense?
“It’s the same across the board. Listen, we’re going to play whatever is best for our team and our personnel. 3-4, 4-3, man coverage, zone coverage, we’ll find out what fits us best and we’ll wait until we play against our opponents. Running the ball, throwing the ball, it’s, again, whatever is best week by week by opponent is how we’ll address it,” he said.
While most coaches try to force a system or scheme down their players’ throats, Judge is taking a different approach. He feels he can coach any style of football. As long as the fundamentals are in place and the players are all on the same page, the scheme won’t matter."
Honestly, I don't know the correct way to provide a link. I know there's some forum rule and on the old boards some were sticklers about it. Maybe it becomes necessary with those who are combative or opinionated, I think you know I'm just trying to learn and then contribute where I can.
I wasn't being combative. I was just carious on changing the Defensive formation . I agree you should not force a system down the players throats. As it stands right now. Our personnel is more in tune with a 3-4 with our exterior and interior LBs . That does not mean we won't use highbred formations from a base 3-4 Graham has done that in his schemas on passing downs. TEM, I meant requesting links from someone who has a rep of being combative or unwaivering - we've never had an issue.
But you see Judge is not committing to any pure base defense, and it sounds like either will be implemented on a week by week basis. That's why I originally brought this up, in terms of acquiring suitable every down, high contract players.
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Post by TEM on Apr 9, 2020 10:52:58 GMT -5
I wasn't being combative. I was just carious on changing the Defensive formation . I agree you should not force a system down the players throats. As it stands right now. Our personnel is more in tune with a 3-4 with our exterior and interior LBs . That does not mean we won't use highbred formations from a base 3-4 Graham has done that in his schemas on passing downs. TEM, I meant requesting links from someone who has a rep of being combative or unwaivering - we've never had an issue.
But you see Judge is not committing to any pure base defense, and it sounds like either will be implemented on a week by week basis. That's why I originally brought this up, in terms of acquiring suitable every down, high contract players.
What he wants to do . What he has the roster to do are 2 Diffrent things . Fackrell is a 3-4 OLB . It was a bad signing if we run a 4-3
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 9, 2020 10:57:10 GMT -5
TEM, I meant requesting links from someone who has a rep of being combative or unwaivering - we've never had an issue.
But you see Judge is not committing to any pure base defense, and it sounds like either will be implemented on a week by week basis. That's why I originally brought this up, in terms of acquiring suitable every down, high contract players.
What he wants to do . What he has the roster to do are 2 Diffrent things . Fackrell is a 3-4 OLB . It was a bad signing if we run a 4-3 Contract demands aside, how do you feel Yannick's suitability for both would be then?
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Post by DandyDon on Apr 9, 2020 10:59:26 GMT -5
TEM, I meant requesting links from someone who has a rep of being combative or unwaivering - we've never had an issue.
But you see Judge is not committing to any pure base defense, and it sounds like either will be implemented on a week by week basis. That's why I originally brought this up, in terms of acquiring suitable every down, high contract players.
What he wants to do . What he has the roster to do are 2 Diffrent things . Fackrell is a 3-4 OLB . It was a bad signing if we run a 4-3 You don't believe JJ was consulted on the fackrell signing?
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Post by TEM on Apr 9, 2020 11:03:13 GMT -5
What he wants to do . What he has the roster to do are 2 Diffrent things . Fackrell is a 3-4 OLB . It was a bad signing if we run a 4-3 You don't believe JJ was consulted on the fackrell signing? Yeah we are going to sign the 245 3-4 OLB to play 4-3 DE. Even though he has never played with his hand on the ground . He will be a stud playing in a 4-3 System
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Post by TEM on Apr 9, 2020 11:05:43 GMT -5
What he wants to do . What he has the roster to do are 2 Diffrent things . Fackrell is a 3-4 OLB . It was a bad signing if we run a 4-3 Contract demands aside, how do you feel Yannick's suitability for both would be then? He is an average player . There is nothing special about him.
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