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Post by McCherry on Apr 16, 2020 11:12:22 GMT -5
and here we go again with this... Just because I'm sick of a shit o line and wanting to go as heavy as possible on o line this year doesn't mean I have forgotten we have to still replace some of the devastating firepower we didn't last year after the trade... Modern NFL 101 You need athletic dynamic firepower all over the field to stress defenses at every level (and a good O line )to have a contemporary modern offense to have a relevant team and win games,as it makes it much easier on the defense,and more importantly if you have dynamic speed outside..and a good O line,dictating terms on offense circa 2020 is frightening teams with playmakers into playing soft and allowing the offense to control the game with underneath passing and running it The Chiefs last year proved 100% everything I was preaching last year that either got mocked my the usual suspects or ignored... Their team speed allowed them to now tell teams that were trying to slow games down with ball control and forcing the Chiefs to go underneath..ya know what,we will play your game,we will run it and use Kelcey because we will score still every time we have the ball,can you hold serve?.. So Getting back to our team Other than Slayton...who we don't quite know his ceiling but teams now will be accounting for him Shepard (one concussion away from retirement] Tate(aging and expensive] Coleman (useless when healty) Its a major need to add to this unit and with dynamic speed guys... I'm not in favor of the "big bodied possession type "guys 1.because the concept of a plodding possession receiver is dated,because all a team has to do is put a physical guy on him and one on one is taken out.. 2.these guys who are good in college can't get seperation in the pros..
Size is a bit overrated in this era...let the TEs be these guysNow With that said No way at 4/6..ect...we need the wall...even though a bigger need a WR is just as big a toy as Simmons is that early(awaits the #triggered] Unless we trade back with Oakland or Jax and get their other 1wt we can't do this in the first But there are some great gets starting in the 2nd Mims would be the prize ..doubt if he falls but he has the rare speed to go with his size .. Reagor is like another Ruggs 3rd..Peoples Jones,Van Jefferson,Duverney 4th..maybe Bowden..KJ Hill 5th Quez Watkins.. Also have day 3 hybrid playmakers like Antonio Gibson and Issah Wright.. So unlike last year we can do the Pink Floyd method Get your meat and potatoes out of the way early then have desert (pudding) Good thing there are plenty of guys coming out with with size 6' 2" + and speed. Oh, and in the song there was no mention of potatoes before pudding.
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Apr 16, 2020 11:19:10 GMT -5
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 16, 2020 11:19:10 GMT -5
and here we go again with this... Just because I'm sick of a shit o line and wanting to go as heavy as possible on o line this year doesn't mean I have forgotten we have to still replace some of the devastating firepower we didn't last year after the trade... Modern NFL 101 You need athletic dynamic firepower all over the field to stress defenses at every level (and a good O line )to have a contemporary modern offense to have a relevant team and win games,as it makes it much easier on the defense,and more importantly if you have dynamic speed outside..and a good O line,dictating terms on offense circa 2020 is frightening teams with playmakers into playing soft and allowing the offense to control the game with underneath passing and running it The Chiefs last year proved 100% everything I was preaching last year that either got mocked my the usual suspects or ignored... Their team speed allowed them to now tell teams that were trying to slow games down with ball control and forcing the Chiefs to go underneath..ya know what,we will play your game,we will run it and use Kelcey because we will score still every time we have the ball,can you hold serve?.. So Getting back to our team Other than Slayton...who we don't quite know his ceiling but teams now will be accounting for him Shepard (one concussion away from retirement] Tate(aging and expensive] Coleman (useless when healty) Its a major need to add to this unit and with dynamic speed guys... I'm not in favor of the "big bodied possession type "guys 1.because the concept of a plodding possession receiver is dated,because all a team has to do is put a physical guy on him and one on one is taken out.. 2.these guys who are good in college can't get seperation in the pros..
Size is a bit overrated in this era...let the TEs be these guysNow With that said No way at 4/6..ect...we need the wall...even though a bigger need a WR is just as big a toy as Simmons is that early(awaits the #triggered] Unless we trade back with Oakland or Jax and get their other 1wt we can't do this in the first But there are some great gets starting in the 2nd Mims would be the prize ..doubt if he falls but he has the rare speed to go with his size .. Reagor is like another Ruggs 3rd..Peoples Jones,Van Jefferson,Duverney 4th..maybe Bowden..KJ Hill 5th Quez Watkins.. Also have day 3 hybrid playmakers like Antonio Gibson and Issah Wright.. So unlike last year we can do the Pink Floyd method Get your meat and potatoes out of the way early then have desert (pudding) Good thing there are plenty of guys coming out with with size 6' 2" + and speed. Oh, and in the song there was no mention of potatoes before pudding. But most people have potatoes with meat.
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 16, 2020 11:26:21 GMT -5
Good thing there are plenty of guys coming out with with size 6' 2" + and speed. Oh, and in the song there was no mention of potatoes before pudding. But most people have potatoes with meat. Otherwise, their fat and psychopathic wives would thrash them, within inches of their lives.
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Post by JoeBigBlue on Apr 16, 2020 11:56:24 GMT -5
Who cares what his "projected" numbers were? The guy can't stay on the field. And a guy that can't stay on the field is a wasted pick. Brilliant take. Evan Engram was a good pick: yes or no?
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Apr 16, 2020 12:28:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 12:28:14 GMT -5
While I like Duvernay, the guy can barely run the route tree. He cant play slot, and hes a little slight for an outside WR. I will say this, he fights really well for contested balls for a guy his size, he plays bigger than he is. I think hes a WR3 in the NFL, we need a true WR1 and we probably arent getting that after our 2nd round pick, considering we wont pick until the end of the 3rd. Best value for a stud is pick 36. I want Higgins or Mims at 36, both would give us a post-up game we havent had since Plax, those two are TD machines. He certainly isn't great at running routes, it's the weakest part of his game, but I think he would be fine in the slot or outside. I do not think we will get a WR1 unless we take one in round 1-2 though and I don't see that happening. I'm interested to see what Slayton does though this year.
Think about this, Odell had one of the best rookie years ever at WR with 91 catches, 1300 yards (14per catch) and 12 TDs. Slayton started fewer games and still managed to get 48 catches, 740 yards (15 per catch) and 8 TDs. Now I think Odell is one of the best WRs I have ever seen but Slayton with more chances this year might be a very good #1 WR.
I like Slayton but not sure he will be #1 with Sheppard and Tate on the team. Although DJ seems to have a nice connection with him
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Apr 16, 2020 12:49:49 GMT -5
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 16, 2020 12:49:49 GMT -5
He certainly isn't great at running routes, it's the weakest part of his game, but I think he would be fine in the slot or outside. I do not think we will get a WR1 unless we take one in round 1-2 though and I don't see that happening. I'm interested to see what Slayton does though this year.
Think about this, Odell had one of the best rookie years ever at WR with 91 catches, 1300 yards (14per catch) and 12 TDs. Slayton started fewer games and still managed to get 48 catches, 740 yards (15 per catch) and 8 TDs. Now I think Odell is one of the best WRs I have ever seen but Slayton with more chances this year might be a very good #1 WR.
I like Slayton but not sure he will be #1 with Sheppard and Tate on the team. Although DJ seems to have a nice connection with him Slayton has modern #1 type skillsets... Shepard and Tate are complimentary type players. Get another Slayton type..plenty to choose from
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Post by McCherry on Apr 16, 2020 13:04:16 GMT -5
Evan Engram was a good pick: yes or no? Unless the staff could've known he would miss half his career I don't know what I'd have done different. Again, on the field he's kept pace with the best TE's in the league. Was Sam Beal a good pick? David Wilson, Steve Smith? Sure doesn't took like it now but it did at the time. It's an easy call in hindsight. We could draft Andrew Thomas, if he gets hurt some fans will say it was a bad pick, what can I tell you...
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Post by McCherry on Apr 16, 2020 13:04:51 GMT -5
He certainly isn't great at running routes, it's the weakest part of his game, but I think he would be fine in the slot or outside. I do not think we will get a WR1 unless we take one in round 1-2 though and I don't see that happening. I'm interested to see what Slayton does though this year.
Think about this, Odell had one of the best rookie years ever at WR with 91 catches, 1300 yards (14per catch) and 12 TDs. Slayton started fewer games and still managed to get 48 catches, 740 yards (15 per catch) and 8 TDs. Now I think Odell is one of the best WRs I have ever seen but Slayton with more chances this year might be a very good #1 WR.
I like Slayton but not sure he will be #1 with Sheppard and Tate on the team. I'm pretty sure he already is.
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Apr 16, 2020 13:05:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 13:05:35 GMT -5
Kaden Smith of course. And his whopping 9 games under his belt. I know it’s not popular opinion, and his injury history is at a comical level. Engram is our starting tightend until his usual injuries turn up. This is our fan base with Engram. When healthy Fan A. “He’s a great player, a leader. We have to resign him now.” When injured
Fan B. “He sucks, always injured. He’ll tear a ligament opening up an email.” So in conclusion, when healthy he’s great. When he’s hurt he blows. This season could very well be his last year in blue. Problem is he always turns us into fan B
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Post by jimmieray on Apr 16, 2020 13:08:43 GMT -5
He certainly isn't great at running routes, it's the weakest part of his game, but I think he would be fine in the slot or outside. I do not think we will get a WR1 unless we take one in round 1-2 though and I don't see that happening. I'm interested to see what Slayton does though this year.
Think about this, Odell had one of the best rookie years ever at WR with 91 catches, 1300 yards (14per catch) and 12 TDs. Slayton started fewer games and still managed to get 48 catches, 740 yards (15 per catch) and 8 TDs. Now I think Odell is one of the best WRs I have ever seen but Slayton with more chances this year might be a very good #1 WR.
I like Slayton but not sure he will be #1 with Sheppard and Tate on the team. Although DJ seems to have a nice connection with him I like receivers who have no designation, where they can be #1 or #4 on any given day. And a QB who feels the same way. And they all agree.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 13:26:39 GMT -5
I like Slayton but not sure he will be #1 with Sheppard and Tate on the team. Although DJ seems to have a nice connection with him I like receivers who have no designation, where they can be #1 or #4 on any given day. And a QB who feels the same way. And they all agree. Totally agree. As a QB don’t force it to one guy. Spread the ball all over the field. Something Eli was very good at. If you get open the ball comes your way. It’s that easy. Some weeks maybe Sheppard has a good day others it can be Engram. Take what the defense gives you. You have to find their weakness and expose it all day long. Kinda like teams did to us when we put Ballentine in
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Post by Jomo on Apr 16, 2020 13:28:12 GMT -5
We are in fact light at WR. We have a bunch of question marks and an exciting young player in Slayton.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 16, 2020 13:33:21 GMT -5
I like Slayton but not sure he will be #1 with Sheppard and Tate on the team. Although DJ seems to have a nice connection with him Slayton has modern #1 type skillsets... Shepard and Tate are complimentary type players. Get another Slayton type..plenty to choose from I disagree that you need Rocket Ismail's all throughout your WR lineup. Some of the best WR's that ever played had average size and speed. I'll bet Tate is the slowest receiver on the Giants yet all he did was get open and lead the team in receiving. You need those guys that just get open and move the chains.
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Post by nygfanstrick on Apr 16, 2020 14:10:54 GMT -5
We definitely need to address WR. Slayton looks very promising and I hope he can take the next step last year. Tate is solid but who knows how much longer he will be on the team. Shepard is very solid but unfortunately you have to question how much longer he should/will play in the NFL with the amount of concussions he has had and with a young family. Engram is a really good weapon when available but unfortunately that’s hard to rely on at least to this point. Barkley could be a CMC/Kamara type threat out of the backfield as a receiver but they don’t seem to utilize him fully, hopefully that changes.
So in conclusion we have one promising player who is on a rookie deal, one solid vet who might be off the team after this year, another solid young WR who might have a limited amount of time left in the league, a dynamic threat at TE but is often injured, and a RB who could be as dynamic as any player in the league if utilized correctly. Adding another WR and arguably a TE is much needed in my opinion
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Apr 16, 2020 14:18:35 GMT -5
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 16, 2020 14:18:35 GMT -5
Slayton has modern #1 type skillsets... Shepard and Tate are complimentary type players. Get another Slayton type..plenty to choose from I disagree that you need Rocket Ismail's all throughout your WR lineup. Some of the best WR's that ever played had average size and speed. I'll bet Tate is the slowest receiver on the Giants yet all he did was get open and lead the team in receiving. You need those guys that just get open and move the chains. If you want to pitter putter down the field then bog down because these average types can't get seperation inside the 30 Like us last year ... The era of average athleticism ended around 2014 or so The Chiefs proved me 100% correct what an highly athletic explosive recievihg group can do opening up everything underneath,including a previously irrelevant small back Running at will against a top defense frightened to the point they couldn't play their style and had to be soft(who got bombed deep anyway at the end) Just like the Rams showed the world the previous year vs the Cowboys in the playoffs running Cooks and Woods deep opening up the middle to be ground to a pulp to the tune of 300 yards against on the ground And I was proven 100% correct last year unfortunately with us Nothing dynamic allowed a shallow zone that snuffed out our underneath stuff and allowed run blitzing on Barkley because teams pointed and laughed at our recievers...with Slayton being the only actual threat and now he will be dealt with.. Get another Slayton type outside and with additions to the line we have a top offense Or do fans just sit there content with "just good enough " because they are still stuck in the ancient dogma of how they want their Giants football from 1990 ...
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 16, 2020 14:22:05 GMT -5
We definitely need to address WR. Slayton looks very promising and I hope he can take the next step last year. Tate is solid but who knows how much longer he will be on the team. Shepard is very solid but unfortunately you have to question how much longer he should/will play in the NFL with the amount of concussions he has had and with a young family. Engram is a really good weapon when available but unfortunately that’s hard to rely on at least to this point. Barkley could be a CMC/Kamara type threat out of the backfield as a receiver but they don’t seem to utilize him fully, hopefully that changes. So in conclusion we have one promising player who is on a rookie deal, one solid vet who might be off the team after this year, another solid young WR who might have a limited amount of time left in the league, a dynamic threat at TE but is often injured, and a RB who could be as dynamic as any player in the league if utilized correctly. Adding another WR and arguably a TE is much needed in my opinion If we don't trade back unfortunately TE will have to be addressed UFA or next year... Having 2 Kaden Smith types gets us closer to having the devastating type 12 formation we had with Bavaro and Mowatt in the 86 run....2 above average blacking TEs with above average recieving skills.... 2 Slayton types (our boy Quez Watkins would be perfect) 2 outside dynamic guys with sub 4.4 speed with decent hight and make contested catches....2 Kaden Smiths..Barkley Fixed line.. Sign me up.
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Apr 16, 2020 14:24:52 GMT -5
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Post by nygfanstrick on Apr 16, 2020 14:24:52 GMT -5
We definitely need to address WR. Slayton looks very promising and I hope he can take the next step last year. Tate is solid but who knows how much longer he will be on the team. Shepard is very solid but unfortunately you have to question how much longer he should/will play in the NFL with the amount of concussions he has had and with a young family. Engram is a really good weapon when available but unfortunately that’s hard to rely on at least to this point. Barkley could be a CMC/Kamara type threat out of the backfield as a receiver but they don’t seem to utilize him fully, hopefully that changes. So in conclusion we have one promising player who is on a rookie deal, one solid vet who might be off the team after this year, another solid young WR who might have a limited amount of time left in the league, a dynamic threat at TE but is often injured, and a RB who could be as dynamic as any player in the league if utilized correctly. Adding another WR and arguably a TE is much needed in my opinion If we don't trade back unfortunately TE will have to be addressed UFA or next year... Having 2 Kaden Smith types gets us closer to having the devastating type 12 formation we had with Bavaro and Mowatt in the 86 run....2 above average blacking TEs with above average recieving skills.... 2 Slayton types (our boy Quez Watkins would be perfect) 2 outside dynamic guys with sub 4.4 speed with decent hight and make contested catches....2 Kaden Smiths..Barkley Fixed line.. Sign me up. Worst comes to worst if we upgraded the OL and went defense heavy until going for someone like Watkins, the offense would still be much upgraded. Levine T and Smith being used as blockers would make the running game much improved and then having Watkins and Slayton being able to take the top off the defense would be hard to defend. Either try and stop them deep and open up Barkley to feast or try and make Jones beat you and have very favorable matchups for our burners on the outside
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 16, 2020 14:33:25 GMT -5
If we don't trade back unfortunately TE will have to be addressed UFA or next year... Having 2 Kaden Smith types gets us closer to having the devastating type 12 formation we had with Bavaro and Mowatt in the 86 run....2 above average blacking TEs with above average recieving skills.... 2 Slayton types (our boy Quez Watkins would be perfect) 2 outside dynamic guys with sub 4.4 speed with decent hight and make contested catches....2 Kaden Smiths..Barkley Fixed line.. Sign me up. Worst comes to worst if we upgraded the OL and went defense heavy until going for someone like Watkins, the offense would still be much upgraded. Levine T and Smith being used as blockers would make the running game much improved and then having Watkins and Slayton being able to take the top off the defense would be hard to defend. Either try and stop them deep and open up Barkley to feast or try and make Jones beat you and have very favorable matchups for our burners on the outside Honestly Engram..and I love his skillsets and his mismatch potential...kinda makes the offense predictable...though with 2 burners outside and him pulling a defender with him into the slot also makes for a favorable matchup running it because Engram blocks those kind of players he is assigned to very well... But Levine is not a slouch recieving either
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 16, 2020 14:58:24 GMT -5
He certainly isn't great at running routes, it's the weakest part of his game, but I think he would be fine in the slot or outside. I do not think we will get a WR1 unless we take one in round 1-2 though and I don't see that happening. I'm interested to see what Slayton does though this year.
Think about this, Odell had one of the best rookie years ever at WR with 91 catches, 1300 yards (14per catch) and 12 TDs. Slayton started fewer games and still managed to get 48 catches, 740 yards (15 per catch) and 8 TDs. Now I think Odell is one of the best WRs I have ever seen but Slayton with more chances this year might be a very good #1 WR.
I like Slayton but not sure he will be #1 with Sheppard and Tate on the team. Although DJ seems to have a nice connection with him I honestly don't think Tate or Shep are #1 receivers at all (I like them both though). Slayton has the chance to be a #1 with the numbers he was putting up last year and the way him and Jones clicked.
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Post by Kase1 on Apr 16, 2020 15:02:28 GMT -5
Because I dont have much faith in the long term value of Engram and Shep (1 of my fav Giants) I would LOVE to see us walk away with any combo of
WR: Tyler Johnson Van Jefferson Quintez Cephus Chase Claypool Binjimen Victor
TE: Harrison Bryant Cheyenne O'Grady
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Apr 16, 2020 16:12:51 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2020 16:12:51 GMT -5
I like Slayton but not sure he will be #1 with Sheppard and Tate on the team. Although DJ seems to have a nice connection with him I honestly don't think Tate or Shep are #1 receivers at all (I like them both though). Slayton has the chance to be a #1 with the numbers he was putting up last year and the way him and Jones clicked. I like the kid and I hope you’re right. Sheppard and Tate are kinda the same. Slot recovers. Tates RAC is gone
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Post by IrishMike on Apr 16, 2020 16:17:25 GMT -5
I honestly don't think Tate or Shep are #1 receivers at all (I like them both though). Slayton has the chance to be a #1 with the numbers he was putting up last year and the way him and Jones clicked. I like the kid and I hope you’re right. Sheppard and Tate are kinda the same. Slot recovers. Tates RAC is gone Yeah Tate lost his legs at some point. Gets smothered over the middle now. Slayton really put up some very good numbers last year. Looked awesome out there at times. Hope we get another outside WR to put with him this year.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 16, 2020 17:22:03 GMT -5
I disagree that you need Rocket Ismail's all throughout your WR lineup. Some of the best WR's that ever played had average size and speed. I'll bet Tate is the slowest receiver on the Giants yet all he did was get open and lead the team in receiving. You need those guys that just get open and move the chains. If you want to pitter putter down the field then bog down because these average types can't get seperation inside the 30 Like us last year ... The era of average athleticism ended around 2014 or so The Chiefs proved me 100% correct what an highly athletic explosive recievihg group can do opening up everything underneath,including a previously irrelevant small back Running at will against a top defense frightened to the point they couldn't play their style and had to be soft(who got bombed deep anyway at the end) Just like the Rams showed the world the previous year vs the Cowboys in the playoffs running Cooks and Woods deep opening up the middle to be ground to a pulp to the tune of 300 yards against on the ground And I was proven 100% correct last year unfortunately with us Nothing dynamic allowed a shallow zone that snuffed out our underneath stuff and allowed run blitzing on Barkley because teams pointed and laughed at our recievers...with Slayton being the only actual threat and now he will be dealt with.. Get another Slayton type outside and with additions to the line we have a top offense Or do fans just sit there content with "just good enough " because they are still stuck in the ancient dogma of how they want their Giants football from 1990 ... The Chiefs are an extreme exception, not the norm. My point was that they all have speed. We're not going to draft a slow WR, but you don't need a track star. Get me football players, Slayton runs a 4.4 that's not considered burner speed.
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Post by lt56 on Apr 16, 2020 18:14:10 GMT -5
I don't know if Slayton is a #1 Receiver but he sure did look like one at times last season as a Rookie. Yeah I would love to see them add another young receiver in the Middle Rounds with Size like Chase Claypool from Notre Dame also like Michael Pittman Jr. from USC as a 3rd-4th Round Sleeper or a Speedy Guy like Devin Duvernay from Texas
Plenty of receivers in this Draft
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Apr 16, 2020 18:41:44 GMT -5
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 16, 2020 18:41:44 GMT -5
I don't know if Slayton is a #1 Receiver but he sure did look like one at times last season as a Rookie. Yeah I would love to see them add another young receiver in the Middle Rounds with Size like Chase Claypool from Notre Dame also like Michael Pittman Jr. from USC as a 3rd-4th Round Sleeper or a Speedy Guy like Devin Duvernay from Texas Plenty of receivers in this Draft Not a fan of Pittman. ... Give me speed and playmaking ability post catch..size is overrated these days.. Speed outside and let Shepard/the TEs be the chain movers..the speed outside opens everything up and makes it easier to move the chains and control the ball (running it or underneath stuff)
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Apr 16, 2020 18:42:41 GMT -5
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Post by cocktailkerry on Apr 16, 2020 18:42:41 GMT -5
I think the Giants need a big body on the outside, maybe Chase Claypool from ND.
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Apr 16, 2020 19:08:53 GMT -5
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Post by alw10 on Apr 16, 2020 19:08:53 GMT -5
I’m kind of falling for Laviska Shenault in the 2nd. Dudes a man beast. Reminds me of a more athletic Anquan Boldin.
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Post by McCherry on Apr 16, 2020 19:39:49 GMT -5
I don't know if Slayton is a #1 Receiver but he sure did look like one at times last season as a Rookie. Yeah I would love to see them add another young receiver in the Middle Rounds with Size like Chase Claypool from Notre Dame also like Michael Pittman Jr. from USC as a 3rd-4th Round Sleeper or a Speedy Guy like Devin Duvernay from Texas Plenty of receivers in this Draft Not a fan of Pittman. ... Give me speed and playmaking ability post catch..size is overrated these days.. Speed outside and let Shepard/the TEs be the chain movers..the speed outside opens everything up and makes it easier to move the chains and control the ball (running it or underneath stuff) Both the top receivers Jeudy and Lamb run a 4.45, you wouldn't take them?
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Apr 16, 2020 19:43:02 GMT -5
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 16, 2020 19:43:02 GMT -5
Not a fan of Pittman. ... Give me speed and playmaking ability post catch..size is overrated these days.. Speed outside and let Shepard/the TEs be the chain movers..the speed outside opens everything up and makes it easier to move the chains and control the ball (running it or underneath stuff) Both the top receivers Jeudy and Lamb run a 4.45, you wouldn't take them? Look at their play ..4.45 is fine..they were torching defenses Pittman is a catch it and go down guy... You can tell a slug from a dynamic guy No slugs
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Apr 16, 2020 19:45:47 GMT -5
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Post by giantlegacy on Apr 16, 2020 19:45:47 GMT -5
I think the Giants need a big body on the outside, maybe Chase Claypool from ND. Size is overated Speed,route running,post catch... Hight is a bonus Big body guys lose their ability to get seperation earlier as well and become useless
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