|
Post by Sarcasman on Oct 25, 2020 15:47:09 GMT -5
And the Giants drop into last place in the worst division of the NFL as Washington destroys Dallas. They’ll be in first in a week or two.
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Oct 25, 2020 17:03:28 GMT -5
Excluding SF blowout, This team has lost by 10, 4, 8, 3 & 1 pts in their other 5 losses. Losing SB probably cost us a 4-2, 3-3 record & being in 1st place in this div. Unfortunately, TB will more than likely thrash us to go 1-7 & after that, I just hope to see the team play good , competitive football the rest of the yr as they finish with a top 3 pick & hopefully, with a good draft, FA signings & a healthy SB back, we can start playing some good football in 21'. a 7-9 season would be a huge step forward towards becoming a legit playoff contender in 22' & beyond. I'm actually more bullish for 2021.. We have a huge cap advantage over many teams if you count the 2022 cap season... Bring back Williams,Tomlinson and Logan Ryan..... Steal Gallup from Dallas and now we have twin high end number 2 deep threats for garret .... We can easily get the top pass rusher to make this defense frightening (Shaq Barret is up again) If we end up at 2...trade back and hit a bunch of needs BPA (Surtain would be nice opposite Bradberry,another recievsr day 2,Oline depth
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Oct 25, 2020 17:04:56 GMT -5
So is Dallas now regretting letting Byron Jones go to sign Cooper knowing that there was an excellent shot Lamb/Justin Jefferson would be there when they picked?
|
|
|
Post by Dogecoin on Oct 25, 2020 17:12:19 GMT -5
Well the division had a respectable 2-2 .500 record this weekend. Never mind that they were all intra divisional games and the record would be .500 no matter. Lol this division needs any excuse to feel good about itself
|
|
|
Post by JoeyCush on Oct 25, 2020 18:45:46 GMT -5
So is Dallas now regretting letting Byron Jones go to sign Cooper knowing that there was an excellent shot Lamb/Justin Jefferson would be there when they picked? Was a very Jerry move. I thought giving up a first for Cooper and then signing him to a $100 Million extension (which they had no choice to do so) would hurt them. Letting Jones walk and drafting ANOTHER wide receiver in the first, they are all show no substance. I said before a team that loaded on offense shouldnt be getting blown out like this the last 2 weeks.
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Oct 25, 2020 18:52:52 GMT -5
So is Dallas now regretting letting Byron Jones go to sign Cooper knowing that there was an excellent shot Lamb/Justin Jefferson would be there when they picked? Was a very Jerry move. I thought giving up a first for Cooper and then signing him to a $100 Million extension (which they had no choice to do so) would hurt them. Letting Jones walk and drafting ANOTHER wide receiver in the first, they are all show no substance. I said before a team that loaded on offense shouldnt be getting blown out like this the last 2 weeks. I said it a few weeks ago this litterally looks like our 2013 roster with loaded roster weapons wise,deteriorating o line .. Only our 2013 defense actually started to play well after getting Beason
|
|
|
Post by JoeyCush on Oct 25, 2020 18:55:27 GMT -5
Was a very Jerry move. I thought giving up a first for Cooper and then signing him to a $100 Million extension (which they had no choice to do so) would hurt them. Letting Jones walk and drafting ANOTHER wide receiver in the first, they are all show no substance. I said before a team that loaded on offense shouldnt be getting blown out like this the last 2 weeks. I said it a few weeks ago this litterally looks like our 2013 roster with loaded roster weapons wise,deteriorating o line .. Only our 2013 defense actually started to play well after getting Beason What a shame Beason turned out for us. Guy instantly improved that defense and just couldnt stay healthy.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 25, 2020 21:01:50 GMT -5
Excluding SF blowout, This team has lost by 10, 4, 8, 3 & 1 pts in their other 5 losses. Losing SB probably cost us a 4-2, 3-3 record & being in 1st place in this div. Unfortunately, TB will more than likely thrash us to go 1-7 & after that, I just hope to see the team play good , competitive football the rest of the yr as they finish with a top 3 pick & hopefully, with a good draft, FA signings & a healthy SB back, we can start playing some good football in 21'. a 7-9 season would be a huge step forward towards becoming a legit playoff contender in 22' & beyond. Why did losing SQB cost us wins? Was he winning when he was healthy? I love playing horseshoe football. Bottom line is we cant win close games. We can't hold a big lead. We aren't good at all. Last year people were saying we were progressing. We looked better towards the end of the season. Jones looked better. Ect. How's that working now? Next year we will hit another rebuild. And hopefully have a new GM to lead the way.
|
|
|
Post by devilsadvocate on Oct 26, 2020 9:09:36 GMT -5
That Dallas team is godawful. The injury excuse is meaningless. Philly has probably had more injuries and yet has competed against high level Pittsburgh and Baltimore while the Dallas team rolled over in a division game against Snyder's dysfunctional squad. Dallas still has plenty of talent on game days. The consistent theme to their underachieving is the Jones family. We can all hope that Jerry and his brood continue to run that franchise for many years to come.
|
|
|
Post by Dogecoin on Oct 26, 2020 9:27:47 GMT -5
That Dallas team is godawful. The injury excuse is meaningless. Philly has probably had more injuries and yet has competed against high level Pittsburgh and Baltimore while the Dallas team rolled over in a division game against Snyder's dysfunctional squad. Dallas still has plenty of talent on game days. The consistent theme to their underachieving is the Jones family. We can all hope that Jerry and his brood continue to run that franchise for many years to come. Should washington who need a team name go with "america's team"? After all they are in the nation's capital and Dallas has vacated the title
|
|
theproblem
Special Teams
Formerly BJacobs aka The Problem
Posts: 406
|
Post by theproblem on Oct 27, 2020 15:15:49 GMT -5
Excluding SF blowout, This team has lost by 10, 4, 8, 3 & 1 pts in their other 5 losses. Losing SB probably cost us a 4-2, 3-3 record & being in 1st place in this div. Unfortunately, TB will more than likely thrash us to go 1-7 & after that, I just hope to see the team play good , competitive football the rest of the yr as they finish with a top 3 pick & hopefully, with a good draft, FA signings & a healthy SB back, we can start playing some good football in 21'. a 7-9 season would be a huge step forward towards becoming a legit playoff contender in 22' & beyond. Why did losing SQB cost us wins? Was he winning when he was healthy? I love playing horseshoe football. Bottom line is we cant win close games. We can't hold a big lead. We aren't good at all. Last year people were saying we were progressing. We looked better towards the end of the season. Jones looked better. Ect. How's that working now? Next year we will hit another rebuild. And hopefully have a new GM to lead the way. Bruh, I don't know how you can call yourself an analyst if you really have to ask why losing SQB cost us wins. Losing Barkley completely changed how opposing defenses planned their attack. It also took a lot of opportunities away that would have been there because of how defenses had to play with Barkley in the game. For instance, that TD to Slayton in the Steeler game, that doesn't exist anymore because there's no need to stack the box. Given how close the games have been and the fact that he has homerun potential anytime he touches the ball, it's entirely very believable that with Barkley the team could have at least won 2 more games. Seriously man, how about you give up the hot takes and actually start "analyzing" the game.
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Oct 27, 2020 15:53:25 GMT -5
Why did losing SQB cost us wins? Was he winning when he was healthy? I love playing horseshoe football. Bottom line is we cant win close games. We can't hold a big lead. We aren't good at all. Last year people were saying we were progressing. We looked better towards the end of the season. Jones looked better. Ect. How's that working now? Next year we will hit another rebuild. And hopefully have a new GM to lead the way. Bruh, I don't know how you can call yourself an analyst if you really have to ask why losing SQB cost us wins. Losing Barkley completely changed how opposing defenses planned their attack. It also took a lot of opportunities away that would have been there because of how defenses had to play with Barkley in the game. For instance, that TD to Slayton in the Steeler game, that doesn't exist anymore because there's no need to stack the box. Given how close the games have been and the fact that he has homerun potential anytime he touches the ball, it's entirely very believable that with Barkley the team could have at least won 2 more games. Seriously man, how about you give up the hot takes and actually start "analyzing" the game. When you hate a pick so much that goes against your narrative you start hating the player We probably win the Bears game,possibly the Rams game...definitely the Dallas Game (look at all the yards Freeman left on the field Barkley would have had...we score 45 in that one ),the redskin game isn't as close and probably beat Philly... The evidence is look at how many huge Runs Jones has...he has the athletic ability to make the short runs huge Now add Jones RPO to Barkley Yes its still not ideal because our weapons have been meh other than Slayton but at least the offense has an identity...and easier to add weapons next year Barkley out exposes how horrible our recievers are ....
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 27, 2020 16:09:46 GMT -5
Why did losing SQB cost us wins? Was he winning when he was healthy? I love playing horseshoe football. Bottom line is we cant win close games. We can't hold a big lead. We aren't good at all. Last year people were saying we were progressing. We looked better towards the end of the season. Jones looked better. Ect. How's that working now? Next year we will hit another rebuild. And hopefully have a new GM to lead the way. Bruh, I don't know how you can call yourself an analyst if you really have to ask why losing SQB cost us wins. Losing Barkley completely changed how opposing defenses planned their attack. It also took a lot of opportunities away that would have been there because of how defenses had to play with Barkley in the game. For instance, that TD to Slayton in the Steeler game, that doesn't exist anymore because there's no need to stack the box. Given how close the games have been and the fact that he has homerun potential anytime he touches the ball, it's entirely very believable that with Barkley the team could have at least won 2 more games. Seriously man, how about you give up the hot takes and actually start "analyzing" the game. Whats our record while SQB was healthy vs not healthy? With him playing vs him not playing?
|
|
theproblem
Special Teams
Formerly BJacobs aka The Problem
Posts: 406
|
Post by theproblem on Oct 27, 2020 16:46:45 GMT -5
Bruh, I don't know how you can call yourself an analyst if you really have to ask why losing SQB cost us wins. Losing Barkley completely changed how opposing defenses planned their attack. It also took a lot of opportunities away that would have been there because of how defenses had to play with Barkley in the game. For instance, that TD to Slayton in the Steeler game, that doesn't exist anymore because there's no need to stack the box. Given how close the games have been and the fact that he has homerun potential anytime he touches the ball, it's entirely very believable that with Barkley the team could have at least won 2 more games. Seriously man, how about you give up the hot takes and actually start "analyzing" the game. Whats our record while SQB was healthy vs not healthy? With him playing vs him not playing? Dude, please change your name because your blanket black and white non-insightful analysis doesn't offer anything of relative use to a discussion. To sit there and try to argue that the removal of a RB who has the ability to post 2000 yards from scrimmage and score 12+ TD's in a season wouldn't cost wins is ridiculous. Barkley accounted for almost 5(4.8 to be exact) points per game that he played in. Think about that, 5 points. That's almost a TD a game. If the Giants had an additional 5 points per game this season, they'd be sitting at 4-3 instead of 1-6. If you want to look back and talk about the previous 2 years, go ahead. Talk about 2018 and 2019 all you want. Those records mean jack because those were different teams with different coaching and different rosters. You're talking about a player who opposing coaching personnel specifically single out in stating that they base their entire defensive plan against. But no, losing a guy like that, nah, that wouldn't cost us anything. Nope, no impact at all.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 27, 2020 17:31:10 GMT -5
Whats our record while SQB was healthy vs not healthy? With him playing vs him not playing? Dude, please change your name because your blanket black and white non-insightful analysis doesn't offer anything of relative use to a discussion. To sit there and try to argue that the removal of a RB who has the ability to post 2000 yards from scrimmage and score 12+ TD's in a season wouldn't cost wins is ridiculous. Barkley accounted for almost 5(4.8 to be exact) points per game that he played in. Think about that, 5 points. That's almost a TD a game. If the Giants had an additional 5 points per game this season, they'd be sitting at 4-3 instead of 1-6. If you want to look back and talk about the previous 2 years, go ahead. Talk about 2018 and 2019 all you want. Those records mean jack because those were different teams with different coaching and different rosters. You're talking about a player who opposing coaching personnel specifically single out in stating that they base their entire defensive plan against. But no, losing a guy like that, nah, that wouldn't cost us anything. Nope, no impact at all. So he isnt getting us more wins when he plays then? Oh. Watch the TB game from 2019. DJs first game. The offense was struggling and the team was getting blown out the first half with SQB. Then he got hurt, they moved the ball with ease and scored a ton of points coming back to win the game (thanks to a missed XP FG). SQB is a tremendous talent, but doesn't offer much in winning or losing games. RBs tend to be that way. I can provide you statistical analysis of how the team runs better (yards per play) and wins more when SQB is out. Go watch the Washington game again this season. The big TD Jones threw in that game he got a HUGE block from Lewis. It gave DJ the time to hit Slayton. Barkley more than likely misses that blitz pickup like he nearly always does, and we lose that game.
|
|
theproblem
Special Teams
Formerly BJacobs aka The Problem
Posts: 406
|
Post by theproblem on Oct 27, 2020 18:26:34 GMT -5
Dude, please change your name because your blanket black and white non-insightful analysis doesn't offer anything of relative use to a discussion. To sit there and try to argue that the removal of a RB who has the ability to post 2000 yards from scrimmage and score 12+ TD's in a season wouldn't cost wins is ridiculous. Barkley accounted for almost 5(4.8 to be exact) points per game that he played in. Think about that, 5 points. That's almost a TD a game. If the Giants had an additional 5 points per game this season, they'd be sitting at 4-3 instead of 1-6. If you want to look back and talk about the previous 2 years, go ahead. Talk about 2018 and 2019 all you want. Those records mean jack because those were different teams with different coaching and different rosters. You're talking about a player who opposing coaching personnel specifically single out in stating that they base their entire defensive plan against. But no, losing a guy like that, nah, that wouldn't cost us anything. Nope, no impact at all. So he isnt getting us more wins when he plays then? Oh. Watch the TB game from 2019. DJs first game. The offense was struggling and the team was getting blown out the first half with SQB. Then he got hurt, they moved the ball with ease and scored a ton of points coming back to win the game (thanks to a missed XP FG). SQB is a tremendous talent, but doesn't offer much in winning or losing games. RBs tend to be that way. Once again, your tremendous analytical skills underwhelm and I like how you tried to pick this TB game to prove that the Giants didn't need Barkley to win. It's also funny how you say that the Giants were struggling in the in the 1st half and try to attribute it to Barkley. The Giants had 5 possessions in the 1st half. The first two drives that Barkley was apart of, they scored. A FG and a TD. On the TD drive, Barkley accounted for roughly 1/3 of the yardage on that drive, 28 of the 76 yards to get that TD. The third drive, Barkley got 1 carry and the drive sputtered out because of 2 incompletions and a false start penalty. The fourth drive was cut short by a Daniel Jones fumble. After that, Barkley was out. So here we are, at the end of the 1st half with the Bucs leading 28-10. Now let's look at this 2nd half where the Giants moved the ball with ease. Drive 1 - 1 play - 75 yard TD to engram Drive 2 - 8 play - 80 yard drive, TD Man, I think you're right about this...Drive 3 - 3 and out, punt Drive 4 - 3 and out, punt Drive 5 - 2 play, D. Jones fumble turnover Drive 6 - 3 and out punt Drive 7 - 8 play - 75 yard drive TD Honestly man, if that's your definition of "they moved the ball with ease" then you should really think about what it means to be an analyst. Oh and btw, during this 2nd half, the Giants defense actually decided to show up and held TB to 3 points. But let's totally not look at this in any context what so ever, like the fact that TB had the #1 rush defense that year. Nah, let's pick a game where we can paint the offenses struggles on Barkley and show how they magically did better without him. Because it's not like Barkley wouldn't have contributed to any of those drives that ended in a TD(aside from the Engram one) right? I mean it's not like he contributed to the TD drive in the first half....oh wait, he did.
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Oct 27, 2020 18:32:32 GMT -5
So he isnt getting us more wins when he plays then? Oh. Watch the TB game from 2019. DJs first game. The offense was struggling and the team was getting blown out the first half with SQB. Then he got hurt, they moved the ball with ease and scored a ton of points coming back to win the game (thanks to a missed XP FG). SQB is a tremendous talent, but doesn't offer much in winning or losing games. RBs tend to be that way. Once again, your tremendous analytical skills underwhelm and I like how you tried to pick this TB game to prove that the Giants didn't need Barkley to win. It's also funny how you say that the Giants were struggling in the in the 1st half and try to attribute it to Barkley. The Giants had 5 possessions in the 1st half. The first two drives that Barkley was apart of, they scored. A FG and a TD. On the TD drive, Barkley accounted for roughly 1/3 of the yardage on that drive, 28 of the 76 yards to get that TD. The third drive, Barkley got 1 carry and the drive sputtered out because of 2 incompletions and a false start penalty. The fourth drive was cut short by a Daniel Jones fumble. After that, Barkley was out. So here we are, at the end of the 1st half with the Bucs leading 28-10. Now let's look at this 2nd half where the Giants moved the ball with ease. Drive 1 - 1 play - 75 yard TD to engram Drive 2 - 8 play - 80 yard drive, TD Man, I think you're right about this...Drive 3 - 3 and out, punt Drive 4 - 3 and out, punt Drive 5 - 2 play, D. Jones fumble turnover Drive 6 - 3 and out punt Drive 7 - 8 play - 75 yard drive TD Honestly man, if that's your definition of "they moved the ball with ease" then you should really think about what it means to be an analyst. Oh and btw, during this 2nd half, the Giants defense actually decided to show up and held TB to 3 points. But let's totally not look at this in any context what so ever, like the fact that TB had the #1 rush defense that year. Nah, let's pick a game where we can paint the offenses struggles on Barkley and show how they magically did better without him. Because it's not like Barkley wouldn't have contributed to any of those drives that ended in a TD(aside from the Engram one) right? I mean it's not like he contributed to the TD drive in the first half....oh wait, he did. I'm really enjoying this
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 27, 2020 20:29:24 GMT -5
So he isnt getting us more wins when he plays then? Oh. Watch the TB game from 2019. DJs first game. The offense was struggling and the team was getting blown out the first half with SQB. Then he got hurt, they moved the ball with ease and scored a ton of points coming back to win the game (thanks to a missed XP FG). SQB is a tremendous talent, but doesn't offer much in winning or losing games. RBs tend to be that way. Once again, your tremendous analytical skills underwhelm and I like how you tried to pick this TB game to prove that the Giants didn't need Barkley to win. It's also funny how you say that the Giants were struggling in the in the 1st half and try to attribute it to Barkley. The Giants had 5 possessions in the 1st half. The first two drives that Barkley was apart of, they scored. A FG and a TD. On the TD drive, Barkley accounted for roughly 1/3 of the yardage on that drive, 28 of the 76 yards to get that TD. The third drive, Barkley got 1 carry and the drive sputtered out because of 2 incompletions and a false start penalty. The fourth drive was cut short by a Daniel Jones fumble. After that, Barkley was out. So here we are, at the end of the 1st half with the Bucs leading 28-10. Now let's look at this 2nd half where the Giants moved the ball with ease. Drive 1 - 1 play - 75 yard TD to engram Drive 2 - 8 play - 80 yard drive, TD Man, I think you're right about this...Drive 3 - 3 and out, punt Drive 4 - 3 and out, punt Drive 5 - 2 play, D. Jones fumble turnover Drive 6 - 3 and out punt Drive 7 - 8 play - 75 yard drive TD Honestly man, if that's your definition of "they moved the ball with ease" then you should really think about what it means to be an analyst. Oh and btw, during this 2nd half, the Giants defense actually decided to show up and held TB to 3 points. But let's totally not look at this in any context what so ever, like the fact that TB had the #1 rush defense that year. Nah, let's pick a game where we can paint the offenses struggles on Barkley and show how they magically did better without him. Because it's not like Barkley wouldn't have contributed to any of those drives that ended in a TD(aside from the Engram one) right? I mean it's not like he contributed to the TD drive in the first half....oh wait, he did. Ill give you the stat that matters when asking yourself if he is helping us win or not.... 7-23 with him 3-6 without him What a game changer. Absolutely amazing. Obviously he is better than your average back talent wise, but he is not doing anything for this team to help them win in his career right now. Everyone talked about how bad the Penn State team was in his college career which is why most his games he couldnt break 100 yards. Now he is in the NFL and having the same issues. He dances way too much. He doesnt have great vision. He can not pick up the blitz to save his QB. And recently he has been dropping way too many passes uncontested. He is a phenomenal athlete, but not the greatest RB when it comes to grinding down a defense to win games. TheProblem, you should know, Brandon Jacobs was a much more valuable RB through his first 3-4 seasons on the team. Jacobs scared teams defenses. They got timid. Jacobs pulled in the defense because it took an army to stop him. Id take a cheap Jacobs / Bradshaw combo every time over SQB. Save your top 10 draft picks for positions that matter. Drafting Bark #2 overall was the first mistake that will get DG fired after this season.
|
|
theproblem
Special Teams
Formerly BJacobs aka The Problem
Posts: 406
|
Post by theproblem on Oct 27, 2020 22:01:53 GMT -5
Once again, your tremendous analytical skills underwhelm and I like how you tried to pick this TB game to prove that the Giants didn't need Barkley to win. It's also funny how you say that the Giants were struggling in the in the 1st half and try to attribute it to Barkley. The Giants had 5 possessions in the 1st half. The first two drives that Barkley was apart of, they scored. A FG and a TD. On the TD drive, Barkley accounted for roughly 1/3 of the yardage on that drive, 28 of the 76 yards to get that TD. The third drive, Barkley got 1 carry and the drive sputtered out because of 2 incompletions and a false start penalty. The fourth drive was cut short by a Daniel Jones fumble. After that, Barkley was out. So here we are, at the end of the 1st half with the Bucs leading 28-10. Now let's look at this 2nd half where the Giants moved the ball with ease. Drive 1 - 1 play - 75 yard TD to engram Drive 2 - 8 play - 80 yard drive, TD Man, I think you're right about this...Drive 3 - 3 and out, punt Drive 4 - 3 and out, punt Drive 5 - 2 play, D. Jones fumble turnover Drive 6 - 3 and out punt Drive 7 - 8 play - 75 yard drive TD Honestly man, if that's your definition of "they moved the ball with ease" then you should really think about what it means to be an analyst. Oh and btw, during this 2nd half, the Giants defense actually decided to show up and held TB to 3 points. But let's totally not look at this in any context what so ever, like the fact that TB had the #1 rush defense that year. Nah, let's pick a game where we can paint the offenses struggles on Barkley and show how they magically did better without him. Because it's not like Barkley wouldn't have contributed to any of those drives that ended in a TD(aside from the Engram one) right? I mean it's not like he contributed to the TD drive in the first half....oh wait, he did. Ill give you the stat that matters when asking yourself if he is helping us win or not.... 7-23 with him 3-6 without him What a game changer. Absolutely amazing. Obviously he is better than your average back talent wise, but he is not doing anything for this team to help them win in his career right now. Everyone talked about how bad the Penn State team was in his college career which is why most his games he couldnt break 100 yards. Now he is in the NFL and having the same issues. He dances way too much. He doesnt have great vision. He can not pick up the blitz to save his QB. And recently he has been dropping way too many passes uncontested. He is a phenomenal athlete, but not the greatest RB when it comes to grinding down a defense to win games. TheProblem, you should know, Brandon Jacobs was a much more valuable RB through his first 3-4 seasons on the team. Jacobs scared teams defenses. They got timid. Jacobs pulled in the defense because it took an army to stop him. Id take a cheap Jacobs / Bradshaw combo every time over SQB. Save your top 10 draft picks for positions that matter. Drafting Bark #2 overall was the first mistake that will get DG fired after this season. Once again and I'll quote Mike Tomlin directly: “We thought that guy was a catalyst for whatever they were going to do offensively. We put our secondary in harm’s way some in an effort to do so. But it’s a team game. They embraced that challenge. We needed to stack the line of scrimmage. We needed to bring people like Mike Hilton and so forth, and we did. We did what we thought was necessary to minimize his impact on the game” A player who causes that kind of commitment to stop is by definition and as you so eloquently put "a game changer." And if that isn't a testament to how much Barkley scares teams, I don't know what else to say. You also say Jacobs was much more valuable? Let me ask you this. For a young QB starting in the NFL, you don't think that it's more valuable to have opposing defenses put themselves in such a disadvantageous position where they're completely selling out to disrupt the run game? And look, I love me some Brandon Jacobs, he's one of my favorite all time NY Giants, but let's not get it twisted, when the offensive line was starting to show that it needed to be fix, Jacobs suffered from the same issues that all Giants running backs have suffered from for the past 10 years. Matter of fact, I distinctly remember many on the old boards who are here on these new boards calling him the tiptoe burglar or some crap similar to that. The reason why the Bradshaw/Jacobs combo was successful was because of the O-line. Jacobs and Bradshaw were good, but when the O-line was bad, the combo amounted to the 32nd ranked rushing offense during the 2011 season. Also, I'll throw in the fact that in 2018, Barkley amassed 2028 total yards, behind an offensive line that consisted of: Nate Solder Will Hernandez Spencer Pulley John Greco Patrick Omameh Jamon Brown Chad Wheeler For once, you were finally correct with, as you so eloquently put it... What a game changer. Absolutely amazing.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 27, 2020 22:15:33 GMT -5
Ill give you the stat that matters when asking yourself if he is helping us win or not.... 7-23 with him 3-6 without him What a game changer. Absolutely amazing. Obviously he is better than your average back talent wise, but he is not doing anything for this team to help them win in his career right now. Everyone talked about how bad the Penn State team was in his college career which is why most his games he couldnt break 100 yards. Now he is in the NFL and having the same issues. He dances way too much. He doesnt have great vision. He can not pick up the blitz to save his QB. And recently he has been dropping way too many passes uncontested. He is a phenomenal athlete, but not the greatest RB when it comes to grinding down a defense to win games. TheProblem, you should know, Brandon Jacobs was a much more valuable RB through his first 3-4 seasons on the team. Jacobs scared teams defenses. They got timid. Jacobs pulled in the defense because it took an army to stop him. Id take a cheap Jacobs / Bradshaw combo every time over SQB. Save your top 10 draft picks for positions that matter. Drafting Bark #2 overall was the first mistake that will get DG fired after this season. Once again and I'll quote Mike Tomlin directly: “We thought that guy was a catalyst for whatever they were going to do offensively. We put our secondary in harm’s way some in an effort to do so. But it’s a team game. They embraced that challenge. We needed to stack the line of scrimmage. We needed to bring people like Mike Hilton and so forth, and we did. We did what we thought was necessary to minimize his impact on the game” A player who causes that kind of commitment to stop is by definition and as you so eloquently put "a game changer." And if that isn't a testament to how much Barkley scares teams, I don't know what else to say. You also say Jacobs was much more valuable? Let me ask you this. For a young QB starting in the NFL, you don't think that it's more valuable to have opposing defenses put themselves in such a disadvantageous position where they're completely selling out to disrupt the run game? And look, I love me some Brandon Jacobs, he's one of my favorite all time NY Giants, but let's not get it twisted, when the offensive line was starting to show that it needed to be fix, Jacobs suffered from the same issues that all Giants running backs have suffered from for the past 10 years. Matter of fact, I distinctly remember many on the old boards who are here on these new boards calling him the tiptoe burglar or some crap similar to that. The reason why the Bradshaw/Jacobs combo was successful was because of the O-line. Jacobs and Bradshaw were good, but when the O-line was bad, the combo amounted to the 32nd ranked rushing offense during the 2011 season. Also, I'll throw in the fact that in 2018, Barkley amassed 2028 total yards, behind an offensive line that consisted of: Nate Solder Will Hernandez Spencer Pulley John Greco Patrick Omameh Jamon Brown Chad Wheeler For once, you were finally correct with, as you so eloquently put it... What a game changer. Absolutely amazing. Thats great but shows you that a team can plan to stop Barkley and do so, while winning the game. If they sold out to stop Barkley and the Giants were winning because of it, maybe I would agree that he is an important piece. But I just don't see it. Whether he is healthy or not, it doesnt matter. He adds no wins to our team with this current roster. He is just a shiney toy who gets a huge run once in a while and stopped for less than 3 yards or less the other 90% of the time. No its not all his fault, but it just furthers my point they should not have taken him at 2 and should have tried to build the OL instead first. He was great his rookie year (we won 4 games) and downhill since. I guess we have to agree to disagree on his value.
|
|
theproblem
Special Teams
Formerly BJacobs aka The Problem
Posts: 406
|
Post by theproblem on Oct 27, 2020 22:27:18 GMT -5
Once again and I'll quote Mike Tomlin directly: “We thought that guy was a catalyst for whatever they were going to do offensively. We put our secondary in harm’s way some in an effort to do so. But it’s a team game. They embraced that challenge. We needed to stack the line of scrimmage. We needed to bring people like Mike Hilton and so forth, and we did. We did what we thought was necessary to minimize his impact on the game” A player who causes that kind of commitment to stop is by definition and as you so eloquently put "a game changer." And if that isn't a testament to how much Barkley scares teams, I don't know what else to say. You also say Jacobs was much more valuable? Let me ask you this. For a young QB starting in the NFL, you don't think that it's more valuable to have opposing defenses put themselves in such a disadvantageous position where they're completely selling out to disrupt the run game? And look, I love me some Brandon Jacobs, he's one of my favorite all time NY Giants, but let's not get it twisted, when the offensive line was starting to show that it needed to be fix, Jacobs suffered from the same issues that all Giants running backs have suffered from for the past 10 years. Matter of fact, I distinctly remember many on the old boards who are here on these new boards calling him the tiptoe burglar or some crap similar to that. The reason why the Bradshaw/Jacobs combo was successful was because of the O-line. Jacobs and Bradshaw were good, but when the O-line was bad, the combo amounted to the 32nd ranked rushing offense during the 2011 season. Also, I'll throw in the fact that in 2018, Barkley amassed 2028 total yards, behind an offensive line that consisted of: Nate Solder Will Hernandez Spencer Pulley John Greco Patrick Omameh Jamon Brown Chad Wheeler For once, you were finally correct with, as you so eloquently put it... What a game changer. Absolutely amazing. Thats great but shows you that a team can plan to stop Barkley and do so, while winning the game. If they sold out to stop Barkley and the Giants were winning because of it, maybe I would agree that he is an important piece. But I just don't see it. Whether he is healthy or not, it doesnt matter. He adds no wins to our team with this current roster. He is just a shiney toy who gets a huge run once in a while and stopped for less than 3 yards or less the other 90% of the time. No its not all his fault, but it just furthers my point they should not have taken him at 2 and should have tried to build the OL instead first. I guess we have to agree to disagree. Please stop throwing out arbitrary numbers man. A back who gets stopped for 3 yards or less 90% of the time can't have a career avg of 4.7 yards per carry. I get it, you hated the pick. You wanted an OL with the #2 pick. That's fine. You're entitled to that opinion, but don't try to rationalize it with garbage analysis and numbers.
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Oct 27, 2020 22:35:17 GMT -5
Thats great but shows you that a team can plan to stop Barkley and do so, while winning the game. If they sold out to stop Barkley and the Giants were winning because of it, maybe I would agree that he is an important piece. But I just don't see it. Whether he is healthy or not, it doesnt matter. He adds no wins to our team with this current roster. He is just a shiney toy who gets a huge run once in a while and stopped for less than 3 yards or less the other 90% of the time. No its not all his fault, but it just furthers my point they should not have taken him at 2 and should have tried to build the OL instead first. I guess we have to agree to disagree. Please stop throwing out arbitrary numbers man. A back who gets stopped for 3 yards or less 90% of the time can't have a career avg of 4.7 yards per carry. I get it, you hated the pick. You wanted an OL with the #2 pick. That's fine. You're entitled to that opinion, but don't try to rationalize it with garbage analysis and numbers. He wanted one of the overhyped beach boy qbs Even worse Make no mistake Barkley next year behind a hopefully finished and still improving Online with some dynamic weapons outside.. 2500 total yards in a highly explosive fun offense
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 27, 2020 22:37:57 GMT -5
Thats great but shows you that a team can plan to stop Barkley and do so, while winning the game. If they sold out to stop Barkley and the Giants were winning because of it, maybe I would agree that he is an important piece. But I just don't see it. Whether he is healthy or not, it doesnt matter. He adds no wins to our team with this current roster. He is just a shiney toy who gets a huge run once in a while and stopped for less than 3 yards or less the other 90% of the time. No its not all his fault, but it just furthers my point they should not have taken him at 2 and should have tried to build the OL instead first. I guess we have to agree to disagree. Please stop throwing out arbitrary numbers man. A back who gets stopped for 3 yards or less 90% of the time can't have a career avg of 4.7 yards per carry. I get it, you hated the pick. You wanted an OL with the #2 pick. That's fine. You're entitled to that opinion, but don't try to rationalize it with garbage analysis and numbers. Well lets see. If a RB gets 2,-3,1,-3,3,42,1,2,-1,3 yards carrying on 10 carires, very Saquon like numbers there, that is an average of 4.7 yards a carry with 3 yards or less on 90% of the carries. Now, of course I was just estimating the exact number but don't tell me it can't be done when clearly it can be. Abatrary numbers? 7-23 record with him starting. 3-6 with him out. Love the guy and his character, hate the pick and the value it lacks.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 27, 2020 22:39:15 GMT -5
Please stop throwing out arbitrary numbers man. A back who gets stopped for 3 yards or less 90% of the time can't have a career avg of 4.7 yards per carry. I get it, you hated the pick. You wanted an OL with the #2 pick. That's fine. You're entitled to that opinion, but don't try to rationalize it with garbage analysis and numbers. He wanted one of the overhyped beach boy qbs Even worse Make no mistake Barkley next year behind a hopefully finished and still improving Online with some dynamic weapons outside.. 2500 total yards in a highly explosive fun offense Wrong
|
|
theproblem
Special Teams
Formerly BJacobs aka The Problem
Posts: 406
|
Post by theproblem on Oct 27, 2020 23:35:40 GMT -5
Please stop throwing out arbitrary numbers man. A back who gets stopped for 3 yards or less 90% of the time can't have a career avg of 4.7 yards per carry. I get it, you hated the pick. You wanted an OL with the #2 pick. That's fine. You're entitled to that opinion, but don't try to rationalize it with garbage analysis and numbers. Well lets see. If a RB gets 2,-3,1,-3,3,42,1,2,-1,3 yards carrying on 10 carires, very Saquon like numbers there, that is an average of 4.7 yards a carry with 3 yards or less on 90% of the carries. Now, of course I was just estimating the exact number but don't tell me it can't be done when clearly it can be. Abatrary numbers? 7-23 record with him starting. 3-6 with him out. Love the guy and his character, hate the pick and the value it lacks. Yes man, arbitrary numbers because I said career avg and that's across 497 attempts. Also, once again with the records. It wouldn't have mattered who was picked. In 2018 and 2019 that the Giants had the 23rd and 30th ranked defense when it came to points allowed. It would've taken a full draft of defensive studs to fix that. So unless you wanted Chubb at #2, whatever you valued at that time wasn't going to fix the problem.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 28, 2020 5:21:19 GMT -5
Well lets see. If a RB gets 2,-3,1,-3,3,42,1,2,-1,3 yards carrying on 10 carires, very Saquon like numbers there, that is an average of 4.7 yards a carry with 3 yards or less on 90% of the carries. Now, of course I was just estimating the exact number but don't tell me it can't be done when clearly it can be. Abatrary numbers? 7-23 record with him starting. 3-6 with him out. Love the guy and his character, hate the pick and the value it lacks. Yes man, arbitrary numbers because I said career avg and that's across 497 attempts. Also, once again with the records. It wouldn't have mattered who was picked. In 2018 and 2019 that the Giants had the 23rd and 30th ranked defense when it came to points allowed. It would've taken a full draft of defensive studs to fix that. So unless you wanted Chubb at #2, whatever you valued at that time wasn't going to fix the problem. What we know for a fact- Saquon Barkley didnt help us win more than 7 games since he was drafted. (Out of 30 games he played). He has struggled with our bad OL. What is your opinion- It wouldn't have mattered who we picked. I completely disagree. I wanted to trade back and let some desperate team take Darnold and get a boat load of draft capital kick starting our rebuild. That was the obvious thing to do. Not draft a RB, no matter how good he was. Chubb was on my short list of actual choices (Ill admit, I liked Josh Rosen of the QBs but my first priority would have been build the trenches). The following year I wanted Josh Allen to help the defense. This past year I wanted us to lose the meaningless OT Washington game we won and take Chase Young. So yes, I value pass rush greatly. I know how we won superbowls, and it wasnt because we had a great flashy RB. Our GMs terrible record is now a result of bad drafting / decisions.
|
|
theproblem
Special Teams
Formerly BJacobs aka The Problem
Posts: 406
|
Post by theproblem on Oct 28, 2020 10:33:09 GMT -5
Yes man, arbitrary numbers because I said career avg and that's across 497 attempts. Also, once again with the records. It wouldn't have mattered who was picked. In 2018 and 2019 that the Giants had the 23rd and 30th ranked defense when it came to points allowed. It would've taken a full draft of defensive studs to fix that. So unless you wanted Chubb at #2, whatever you valued at that time wasn't going to fix the problem. What we know for a fact- Saquon Barkley didnt help us win more than 7 games since he was drafted. (Out of 30 games he played). He has struggled with our bad OL. What is your opinion- It wouldn't have mattered who we picked. I completely disagree. I wanted to trade back and let some desperate team take Darnold and get a boat load of draft capital kick starting our rebuild. That was the obvious thing to do. Not draft a RB, no matter how good he was. Chubb was on my short list of actual choices (Ill admit, I liked Josh Rosen of the QBs but my first priority would have been build the trenches). The following year I wanted Josh Allen to help the defense. This past year I wanted us to lose the meaningless OT Washington game we won and take Chase Young. So yes, I value pass rush greatly. I know how we won superbowls, and it wasnt because we had a great flashy RB. Our GMs terrible record is now a result of bad drafting / decisions. Ok, but you're assuming that there was somebody there willing to throw a boat load of draft pick capital. Yes there was a rumor that Denver wanted to swap, but we don't know the full extent of what the return was going to be. I didn't like any of the QB's in the 2018 draft. I didn't think any of them were going to be good. Surprised by Allen though. Like you, I'm more defense minded. I would've been ok with Chubb or Allen last year. Definitely would have like Young from this year too. Thing is, I don't just value the pass rush, I value the defense as a whole. So getting Carter and Hill in 2018 was still good, and in 2019, if Baker hadn't been a moron, that draft would look a hell of a lot better. Lawrence is good, Love is good, Connelly looked real good before the injury and Ballentine isn't bad for depth. Now even though, I said I was defense minded, I also didn't the Barkley pick up because I like a good RB to go along with a good defense. The reason being is because Football is a complimentary sport. It's the ultimate team game. A good running game compliments a strong defense and Barkley looked like a piece that could help the Giants have a really good running game. His ability to catch out of the backfield also complimented the passing game because it gave the QB an outlet and Barkley has been an asset in that area as well. We all knew we were taking a QB soon and one thing that helps out a young QB is a good RB that can take the pressure off the QB and Barkley provided that(see Tomlin quote) Granted, the wrap on Barkley is that he can get a little too caught up with trying to hit the homerun, but that last game against Chicago before he got hurt, it looked like he was finally getting the message from the coaches about just hitting the hole and taking those yards you can get. It was very unfortunate that he got hurt because this year as the season progressed, I really felt that we were going to see just how valuable he was to the team. As the line progressed and eventually got better, opposing teams were going to start to struggle to defend him. Also, the more effort they were going to place into stopping him, the more opportunities were going to present themselves for Jones to take advantage. Like I mentioned before, it's complimentary. Also, this season, we're seeing that the defense is much improved over the last two seasons. Carter looked like he was taking that next step before the injury, Lawrence, Tomlinson and Williams are playing well and the additions of Fakrell, Martinez and Bradberry have been pretty significant. Tae Crowder was on his way to looking like a significant contributor and actually starting. So yeah, you can completely disagree, like I said, you're entitled to your opinion, but just because it didn't go the way you wanted it to go doesn't mean that it still isn't working. And yeah, I know, 1-6, 7-23, 3-6, blah blah blah. You are what your record says you are, but sometimes that doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. And to be honest, this year's 1-6 feels very different when you compare it to 2018's 1-6 and 2019's 2-5.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 28, 2020 10:39:02 GMT -5
What we know for a fact- Saquon Barkley didnt help us win more than 7 games since he was drafted. (Out of 30 games he played). He has struggled with our bad OL. What is your opinion- It wouldn't have mattered who we picked. I completely disagree. I wanted to trade back and let some desperate team take Darnold and get a boat load of draft capital kick starting our rebuild. That was the obvious thing to do. Not draft a RB, no matter how good he was. Chubb was on my short list of actual choices (Ill admit, I liked Josh Rosen of the QBs but my first priority would have been build the trenches). The following year I wanted Josh Allen to help the defense. This past year I wanted us to lose the meaningless OT Washington game we won and take Chase Young. So yes, I value pass rush greatly. I know how we won superbowls, and it wasnt because we had a great flashy RB. Our GMs terrible record is now a result of bad drafting / decisions. Ok, but you're assuming that there was somebody there willing to throw a boat load of draft pick capital. Yes there was a rumor that Denver wanted to swap, but we don't know the full extent of what the return was going to be. I didn't like any of the QB's in the 2018 draft. I didn't think any of them were going to be good. Surprised by Allen though. Like you, I'm more defense minded. I would've been ok with Chubb or Allen last year. Definitely would have like Young from this year too. Thing is, I don't just value the pass rush, I value the defense as a whole. So getting Carter and Hill in 2018 was still good, and in 2019, if Baker hadn't been a moron, that draft would look a hell of a lot better. Lawrence is good, Love is good, Connelly looked real good before the injury and Ballentine isn't bad for depth. Now even though, I said I was defense minded, I also didn't the Barkley pick up because I like a good RB to go along with a good defense. The reason being is because Football is a complimentary sport. It's the ultimate team game. A good running game compliments a strong defense and Barkley looked like a piece that could help the Giants have a really good running game. His ability to catch out of the backfield also complimented the passing game because it gave the QB an outlet and Barkley has been an asset in that area as well. We all knew we were taking a QB soon and one thing that helps out a young QB is a good RB that can take the pressure off the QB and Barkley provided that(see Tomlin quote) Granted, the wrap on Barkley is that he can get a little too caught up with trying to hit the homerun, but that last game against Chicago before he got hurt, it looked like he was finally getting the message from the coaches about just hitting the hole and taking those yards you can get. It was very unfortunate that he got hurt because this year as the season progressed, I really felt that we were going to see just how valuable he was to the team. As the line progressed and eventually got better, opposing teams were going to start to struggle to defend him. Also, the more effort they were going to place into stopping him, the more opportunities were going to present themselves for Jones to take advantage. Like I mentioned before, it's complimentary. Also, this season, we're seeing that the defense is much improved over the last two seasons. Carter looked like he was taking that next step before the injury, Lawrence, Tomlinson and Williams are playing well and the additions of Fakrell, Martinez and Bradberry have been pretty significant. Tae Crowder was on his way to looking like a significant contributor and actually starting. So yeah, you can completely disagree, like I said, you're entitled to your opinion, but just because it didn't go the way you wanted it to go doesn't mean that it still isn't working. And yeah, I know, 1-6, 7-23, 3-6, blah blah blah. You are what your record says you are, but sometimes that doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. And to be honest, this year's 1-6 feels very different when you compare it to 2018's 1-6 and 2019's 2-5. Not to me. I saw that 49ers game too. They were decimated with injuries and we still got our faces pounded in the dirt. Thats the Giants of the last 5-6-7 years. Lose all the close games and get the "At least they tried" comments, and get blown out every once in a while when we shouldnt. Then win the Washington game we win every year and normally a couple of others towards the end of the season. Im hoping Judge is the guy, but this is the same old same old to me so far.
|
|
theproblem
Special Teams
Formerly BJacobs aka The Problem
Posts: 406
|
Post by theproblem on Oct 28, 2020 11:04:37 GMT -5
Not to me. I saw that 49ers game too. They were decimated with injuries and we still got our faces pounded in the dirt. Thats the Giants of the last 5-6-7 years. Lose all the close games and get the "At least they tried" comments, and get blown out every once in a while when we shouldnt. Then win the Washington game we win every year and normally a couple of others towards the end of the season. Im hoping Judge is the guy, but this is the same old same old to me so far. That one I'll give you. That was just an ugly game, but I stand by what I said. Different year, different coaching, different players, this 1-6 feels different.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Oct 28, 2020 11:34:25 GMT -5
Not to me. I saw that 49ers game too. They were decimated with injuries and we still got our faces pounded in the dirt. Thats the Giants of the last 5-6-7 years. Lose all the close games and get the "At least they tried" comments, and get blown out every once in a while when we shouldnt. Then win the Washington game we win every year and normally a couple of others towards the end of the season. Im hoping Judge is the guy, but this is the same old same old to me so far. That one I'll give you. That was just an ugly game, but I stand by what I said. Different year, different coaching, different players, this 1-6 feels different. Would be nice if it had different results. I felt we changed in 2016. But a year later we were right back in the mess, and have been ever since.
|
|