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Post by McCherry on Sept 29, 2020 14:54:32 GMT -5
I don't know how else they would have done it. Took some snaps in HS, college or in preseason … Gates never took a snap at Center in an actual game at any level before his first regular season NFL game playing the position. This seems highly irregular to me. I’m assuming their situations were similar to Gates. If the staff feels a player had the physical and mental traits to be a center, they have him work out at the position in the offseason. It’s common for lineman to switch from guard to tackle or vice versa when they get to the NFL. The center Hennessy, who some fans wanted us to draft is playing guard. Gates has started games at tackle and played well. so I don’t think It’s that much of a stretch. |
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Post by tuckrule on Sept 29, 2020 15:37:13 GMT -5
Gates looked the best last year when he filed in at guard. Let him fill in for Hernandez, put Pulley at center and Peary at RT. Edit: Peart As I said before the problem is not the Talent I think it is more to do with knowing what they guy next to you is gonna do in almost every situation, moving these guys in and out or around is only going to set the process back more games IMHO. If the coaches think the individual talent is there then they should stay the course and let them build the chemistry and learn the new system together. We are 3 games in with 0 preseason no offseason except a short training camp, this isn't the time for changes there is a time it would be the halfway point or shortly after if there is 0 improvement. At the point the guys going will have been practicing in the system and it will give them time to figure out if they are the answer. Its not Gates he is actually doing a good job at center and he has improved weekly after each game. Gates is the least of our worries. Is he GREAT no he is adequate and improving weekly. The right side of the line especially RT is terrible and needs to be addressed ASAP. Zeitler is playing well though. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Sept 29, 2020 15:42:08 GMT -5
As I said before the problem is not the Talent I think it is more to do with knowing what they guy next to you is gonna do in almost every situation, moving these guys in and out or around is only going to set the process back more games IMHO. If the coaches think the individual talent is there then they should stay the course and let them build the chemistry and learn the new system together. We are 3 games in with 0 preseason no offseason except a short training camp, this isn't the time for changes there is a time it would be the halfway point or shortly after if there is 0 improvement. At the point the guys going will have been practicing in the system and it will give them time to figure out if they are the answer. Its not Gates he is actually doing a good job at center and he has improved weekly after each game. Gates is the least of our worries. Is he GREAT no he is adequate and improving weekly. The right side of the line especially RT is terrible and needs to be addressed ASAP. Zeitler is playing well though. Zietler is grading in the low 70s he's fine not greta for him tho as they learn he will get better Hernandez has a lot of good snaps he needs consistency lose the bad ones. Gates as you said he is getting better week to week the rookie is struggling a bit . Flemming is getting better not great but he is getting better. Think Columbo is doing good job pushing them. |
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 29, 2020 18:37:35 GMT -5
Took some snaps in HS, college or in preseason … Gates never took a snap at Center in an actual game at any level before his first regular season NFL game playing the position. This seems highly irregular to me. I’m assuming their situations were similar to Gates. If the staff feels a player had the physical and mental traits to be a center, they have him work out at the position in the offseason. It’s common for lineman to switch from guard to tackle or vice versa when they get to the NFL. The center Hennessy, who some fans wanted us to draft is playing guard. Gates has started games at tackle and played well. so I don’t think It’s that much of a stretch. Apparently, it has been because he has been awful at center |
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Post by Jomo on Sept 29, 2020 18:39:59 GMT -5
I’m assuming their situations were similar to Gates. If the staff feels a player had the physical and mental traits to be a center, they have him work out at the position in the offseason. It’s common for lineman to switch from guard to tackle or vice versa when they get to the NFL. The center Hennessy, who some fans wanted us to draft is playing guard. Gates has started games at tackle and played well. so I don’t think It’s that much of a stretch. Apparently, it has been because he has been awful at center I agree. He is such a work in progress at C. He could be starting for us at RT. I guess that leaves the question, "who is our C, then?" |
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Post by McCherry on Sept 29, 2020 18:53:29 GMT -5
I’m assuming their situations were similar to Gates. If the staff feels a player had the physical and mental traits to be a center, they have him work out at the position in the offseason. It’s common for lineman to switch from guard to tackle or vice versa when they get to the NFL. The center Hennessy, who some fans wanted us to draft is playing guard. Gates has started games at tackle and played well. so I don’t think It’s that much of a stretch. Apparently, it has been because he has been awful at center I completely disagree. If you watch the OL review, fans just don't know what they're talking about. |
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 29, 2020 19:23:30 GMT -5
Apparently, it has been because he has been awful at center I completely disagree. If you watch the OL review, fans just don't know what they're talking about. He’s been beyond awful ... i was being kind. |
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Post by McCherry on Sept 29, 2020 19:49:25 GMT -5
I completely disagree. If you watch the OL review, fans just don't know what they're talking about. He’s been beyond awful ... i was being kind. Well if you want to just ignore facts, go ahead.... You also said you never heard of a player converting to center "in the history of the NFL" which I also pointed out was completely incorrect. |
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 29, 2020 20:40:54 GMT -5
He’s been beyond awful ... i was being kind. Well if you want to just ignore facts, go ahead.... You also said you never heard of a player converting to center "in the history of the NFL" which I also pointed out was completely incorrect. That’s not what I said at all. Of course, players have changed positions. Gates never played the position in an actual game — high school, college, NFL preseason — before he played it in a regular season NFL game as a starter at the position. I am not aware of that ever occurring before, and you have provided no evidence that it has. |
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Post by Morehead State on Sept 29, 2020 20:49:36 GMT -5
Well if you want to just ignore facts, go ahead.... You also said you never heard of a player converting to center "in the history of the NFL" which I also pointed out was completely incorrect. That’s not what I said at all. Of course, players have changed positions. Gates never played the position in an actual game — high school, college, NFL preseason — before he played it in a regular season NFL game as a starter at the position. I am not aware of that ever occurring before, and you have provided no evidence that it has. Next up.....Aaron Donald. Jeez..... |
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Post by Sarcasman on Sept 29, 2020 20:59:02 GMT -5
This OL is an absolute abomination. Time to make some changes. Hernandez sucks. Let’s see Lemieux in that spot instead. Also, no purpose in playing a bad journeyman at RT in yet another lost season. Let’s see Peart. Time for accountability Wasn't Peart on the field late in the SF debacle? I thought I saw him, I could be wrong though. |
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 29, 2020 21:00:36 GMT -5
That’s not what I said at all. Of course, players have changed positions. Gates never played the position in an actual game — high school, college, NFL preseason — before he played it in a regular season NFL game as a starter at the position. I am not aware of that ever occurring before, and you have provided no evidence that it has. Next up.....Aaron Donald. Jeez..... PFF has Gates ranked as the 31st Center in the league and that seems like a gift based upon what I have seen. Absolutely horrific decision to go into the season with Gates as our starting center. |
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 29, 2020 21:03:12 GMT -5
This OL is an absolute abomination. Time to make some changes. Hernandez sucks. Let’s see Lemieux in that spot instead. Also, no purpose in playing a bad journeyman at RT in yet another lost season. Let’s see Peart. Time for accountability Wasn't Peart on the field late in the SF debacle? I thought I saw him, I could be wrong though. I think he got a few snaps late in the game. From what I could see from TV he looked ok |
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Post by McCherry on Sept 29, 2020 21:20:10 GMT -5
Well if you want to just ignore facts, go ahead.... You also said you never heard of a player converting to center "in the history of the NFL" which I also pointed out was completely incorrect. That’s not what I said at all. Of course, players have changed positions. Gates never played the position in an actual game — high school, college, NFL preseason — before he played it in a regular season NFL game as a starter at the position. I am not aware of that ever occurring before, and you have provided no evidence that it has. I mentioned 4 starting Centers in the AFC east alone who didn't play the position in college, so it clearly has happened... What makes them any different than Gates? Why would it matter if they played Center in High school? |
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Sept 29, 2020 22:57:03 GMT -5
He’s been beyond awful ... i was being kind. Well if you want to just ignore facts, go ahead.... You also said you never heard of a player converting to center "in the history of the NFL" which I also pointed out was completely incorrect. i was reading somewhere we may see some changes next game like moving gates at C and putting pulley there. ill try and find the source. |
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Post by ocgiant on Sept 29, 2020 23:16:09 GMT -5
Giants need to fix the OL "as proven" without it the team goes nowhere "as proven" so if nothing else happens this season let's make damn sure where the Giants know where they are going into next year with this OL
Hernandez was suppose to be that nasty brawler type on the interior line nobody mentioned the lack of speed as I recall but it was glaring against SF
I hate to say it but honestly I think the Giants are going to need to draft and go to FA again this offseason. I think Center is the most important position to fill first.
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Sept 30, 2020 2:35:12 GMT -5
This OL is an absolute abomination. Time to make some changes. Hernandez sucks. Let’s see Lemieux in that spot instead. Also, no purpose in playing a bad journeyman at RT in yet another lost season. Let’s see Peart. Time for accountability These may be valid suggestions, but if the coaching remains as poor as it currently is, the results will not improve one bit. |
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Sept 30, 2020 2:57:57 GMT -5
This OL is an absolute abomination. Time to make some changes. Hernandez sucks. Let’s see Lemieux in that spot instead. Also, no purpose in playing a bad journeyman at RT in yet another lost season. Let’s see Peart. Time for accountability Actually, you are wrong about Hernandez. His problem is that he has a rookie to the left of him, and a complete failure at center to the right of him. The center MUST and will be replaced. There is no other left tackle on the Giants that is worth a hoot, so Thomas will probably have to play his way through it as he struggles. Peart must and will start at right tackle. The only other possible change would be to switch Peart and Thomas. |
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Post by GameTime on Sept 30, 2020 6:10:01 GMT -5
This OL is an absolute abomination. Time to make some changes. Hernandez sucks. Let’s see Lemieux in that spot instead. Also, no purpose in playing a bad journeyman at RT in yet another lost season. Let’s see Peart. Time for accountability Actually, you are wrong about Hernandez. His problem is that he has a rookie to the left of him, and a complete failure at center to the right of him. The center MUST and will be replaced. There is no other left tackle on the Giants that is worth a hoot, so Thomas will probably have to play his way through it as he struggles. Peart must and will start at right tackle. The only other possible change would be to switch Peart and Thomas. do you like any Giants players?....Even a little bit? You have Thomas figured out already? Peart will now be the future LT? Like we have to settle for Thomas at LT. This is classic. I mean the oline is a work in progress for and I dont agree on Lemieux getting in there yet at all but come on. |
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Post by nick030567 on Sept 30, 2020 6:20:06 GMT -5
I don't know how else they would have done it. Took some snaps in HS, college or in preseason … Gates never took a snap at Center in an actual game at any level before his first regular season NFL game playing the position. This seems highly irregular to me. [br You know for a FACT that Gates has never snapped a football in his entire life, on a football? Like, has he said this in an interview? Even I, as a kid, played every spot on the OL. Usually throughout HS these guys play multiple spots in one season. Between practice and games. So I would be shocked if he never was |
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Post by GameTime on Sept 30, 2020 6:23:36 GMT -5
Took some snaps in HS, college or in preseason … Gates never took a snap at Center in an actual game at any level before his first regular season NFL game playing the position. This seems highly irregular to me. [br You know for a FACT that Gates has never snapped a football in his entire life, on a football? Like, has he said this in an interview? Even I, as a kid, played every spot on the OL. Usually throughout HS these guys play multiple spots in one season. Between practice and games. So I would be shocked if he never was I know Lemieux said he never took snaps at center ever when he was talking snaps in preseason. Many were acting like he was the next great center for some reason. So you think if Gates took snaps in HS, for example, that would be making a difference either way now? |
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Post by nick030567 on Sept 30, 2020 6:26:40 GMT -5
As I said before the problem is not the Talent I think it is more to do with knowing what they guy next to you is gonna do in almost every situation, moving these guys in and out or around is only going to set the process back more games IMHO. If the coaches think the individual talent is there then they should stay the course and let them build the chemistry and learn the new system together. We are 3 games in with 0 preseason no offseason except a short training camp, this isn't the time for changes there is a time it would be the halfway point or shortly after if there is 0 improvement. At the point the guys going will have been practicing in the system and it will give them time to figure out if they are the answer. Its not Gates he is actually doing a good job at center and he has improved weekly after each game. Gates is the least of our worries. Is he GREAT no he is adequate and improving weekly. The right side of the line especially RT is terrible and needs to be addressed ASAP. Zeitler is playing well though. I think what a lot of people aren't noticing (but you are basically alluding to) is that every player had looked good but individually and collectively, numerous times a game. Thus it really IS a matter of consistent execution and gelling. It's not a lack of strength or physicality (talent). They're just PLAYING SLOW on SOME plays. Mentally slow I mean. Which manifests into physical slowness/getting beat. Even Fleming, at times, looks decent. He's probably the weakest link, but they've all had a roller coaster ride this far. |
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Post by nick030567 on Sept 30, 2020 6:27:56 GMT -5
[br You know for a FACT that Gates has never snapped a football in his entire life, on a football? Like, has he said this in an interview? Even I, as a kid, played every spot on the OL. Usually throughout HS these guys play multiple spots in one season. Between practice and games. So I would be shocked if he never was I know Lemieux said he never took snaps at center ever when he was talking snaps in preseason. Many were acting like he was the next great center for some reason. So you think if Gates took snaps in HS, for example, that would be making a difference either way now? Not entirely no, but I also know for a fact it isn't rocket science. Just takes time to learn, ya know? And I think the guys hasn't had quite enough time yet. it's not easy, but like I said, it's not rocket science, it's football. |
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Post by GameTime on Sept 30, 2020 7:46:01 GMT -5
I know Lemieux said he never took snaps at center ever when he was talking snaps in preseason. Many were acting like he was the next great center for some reason. So you think if Gates took snaps in HS, for example, that would be making a difference either way now? Not entirely no, but I also know for a fact it isn't rocket science. Just takes time to learn, ya know? And I think the guys hasn't had quite enough time yet. it's not easy, but like I said, it's not rocket science, it's football. I agree.....I dont see Gates as "awful" as some on here are saying. I never expected this oline to be world beaters by game 3. As far as the run game they have been very bad and I am surprised at that level of poor play. The pass game it seems Jones either has ok time to throw or he is getting mauled in under 2 seconds. No middle ground. They took a couple of steps forward the first two games and few back last week. Looking for more positives this weekend even tho the probably lose again. Maybe the Rams will come out flat and the Giants can pull off an upset. |
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 30, 2020 7:55:12 GMT -5
That’s not what I said at all. Of course, players have changed positions. Gates never played the position in an actual game — high school, college, NFL preseason — before he played it in a regular season NFL game as a starter at the position. I am not aware of that ever occurring before, and you have provided no evidence that it has. I mentioned 4 starting Centers in the AFC east alone who didn't play the position in college, so it clearly has happened... What makes them any different than Gates? Why would it matter if they played Center in High school? Did they play center in any preseason games? |
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Post by TCHOF on Sept 30, 2020 8:01:24 GMT -5
Took some snaps in HS, college or in preseason … Gates never took a snap at Center in an actual game at any level before his first regular season NFL game playing the position. This seems highly irregular to me. [br You know for a FACT that Gates has never snapped a football in his entire life, on a football? Like, has he said this in an interview? Even I, as a kid, played every spot on the OL. Usually throughout HS these guys play multiple spots in one season. Between practice and games. So I would be shocked if he never was What is the problem with reading comprehension here? I said that Gates never snapped a ball before Game 1 against Pittsburgh? |
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Post by McCherry on Sept 30, 2020 9:15:38 GMT -5
I mentioned 4 starting Centers in the AFC east alone who didn't play the position in college, so it clearly has happened... What makes them any different than Gates? Why would it matter if they played Center in High school? Did they play center in any preseason games? I would assume so, but a few snaps in preseason against 2nd and 3rd stringers or in high school isn't what made them starting Centers. |
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Sept 30, 2020 9:51:37 GMT -5
Actually, you are wrong about Hernandez. His problem is that he has a rookie to the left of him, and a complete failure at center to the right of him. The center MUST and will be replaced. There is no other left tackle on the Giants that is worth a hoot, so Thomas will probably have to play his way through it as he struggles. Peart must and will start at right tackle. The only other possible change would be to switch Peart and Thomas. do you like any Giants players?....Even a little bit? You have Thomas figured out already? Peart will now be the future LT? Like we have to settle for Thomas at LT. This is classic. I mean the oline is a work in progress for and I dont agree on Lemieux getting in there yet at all but come on. Thomas has allowed the 2nd most hurries on his QB of any starting LT in the NFL. I understand he is a rookie, but it is time for Peart to get a shot. The Giants need a right and left tackle, so if Peart performs well at LT and Thomas plays better at RT, then all is right. Who cares which side each of these guys play, as long as the line improves. Right now the Giants have the worst O-line in the NFL, so changes must and will be made. |
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Post by GameTime on Sept 30, 2020 9:54:16 GMT -5
do you like any Giants players?....Even a little bit? You have Thomas figured out already? Peart will now be the future LT? Like we have to settle for Thomas at LT. This is classic. I mean the oline is a work in progress for and I dont agree on Lemieux getting in there yet at all but come on. Thomas has allowed the 2nd most hurries on his QB of any starting LT in the NFL. I understand he is a rookie, but it is time for Peart to get a shot. The Giants need a right and left tackle, so if Peart performs well at LT and Thomas plays better at RT, then all is right. Who cares which side each of these guys play, as long as the line improves. Right now the Giants have the worst O-line in the NFL, so changes must and will be made. yeah lets give Thomas, the first round pick, 3 games to prove himself before he is replaced with a 3rd round pick who is very raw. Great move. |
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Post by bizcliz on Sept 30, 2020 9:54:52 GMT -5
The only change I would be OK with right now is subbing out Fleming for Peart
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