|
Post by giantlegacy on Jun 7, 2021 10:23:51 GMT -5
Was he one of those implicated? He was suspected with the Astros when his spin rate blew up. His last start, his spin rate was way down, and he got clobbered. Oof Seems a few have been suspected Thing is that home runs are still flying out of parks regularly It's the all or nothing attitude at the plate and strike outs don't bother batters anymore Nobody swings for contact any more Ichiro was the last pure hitter that just made contact...
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Jun 7, 2021 10:25:24 GMT -5
I no longer will take MLB serious until they get robo umps. This is part of why its a dying sport. As much as we all want to keep the human element in officiating this is the one aspect in all of sports that needs a laser/robo official
|
|
|
Post by Dogecoin on Jun 7, 2021 11:02:32 GMT -5
I no longer will take MLB serious until they get robo umps. This is part of why its a dying sport. terrible, just terrible....at no point in that ball's flight was it over the plate
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 7, 2021 11:28:05 GMT -5
I no longer will take MLB serious until they get robo umps. This is part of why its a dying sport. As much as we all want to keep the human element in officiating this is the one aspect in all of sports that needs a laser/robo official But instead, they would rather play 7 inning double headers and add a runner on 2nd base in extras. Really ruins the sport for me.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 7, 2021 13:46:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jun 8, 2021 17:28:54 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 8, 2021 17:33:46 GMT -5
It's cheating if it's illegal. If it wasn't it isn't. It's like the steroid scandal. There was a time MLB promoted it. Same with pitchers using substances. I remember John Lester having a green goo in his glove during the World Series. And who can forget Buchholtz hair. Pitchers have been using this stuff for a while without a care by MLB. Now they are cracking down. If Cole gets busted now he is a cheater. I pretty much guarantee he was using it with the Astros though, so I doubt he stopped when he came to NY.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jun 8, 2021 17:35:16 GMT -5
It's cheating if it's illegal. If it wasn't it isn't. It's like the steroid scandal. There was a time MLB promoted it. Same with pitchers using substances. I remember John Lester having a green goo in his glove during the World Series. And who can forget Buchholtz hair. Pitchers have been using this stuff for a while without a care by MLB. Now they are cracking down. If Cole gets busted now he is a cheater. I pretty much guarantee he was using it with the Astros though, so I doubt he stopped when he came to NY. I have no problem with it.
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Jun 9, 2021 10:37:12 GMT -5
It's cheating if it's illegal. If it wasn't it isn't. It's like the steroid scandal. There was a time MLB promoted it. Same with pitchers using substances. I remember John Lester having a green goo in his glove during the World Series. And who can forget Buchholtz hair. Pitchers have been using this stuff for a while without a care by MLB. Now they are cracking down. If Cole gets busted now he is a cheater. I pretty much guarantee he was using it with the Astros though, so I doubt he stopped when he came to NY. I have no problem with it. Neither do I honestly. I didn't have too much of an issue with PED usage either,which goes as far back as the 1960's as far as I know. Players will always try to get an edge. It is what it is. I personally find a lot of hypocrisy on these subjects when it comes to MLB and their purists.
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Jun 9, 2021 10:42:26 GMT -5
It's cheating if it's illegal. If it wasn't it isn't. It's like the steroid scandal. There was a time MLB promoted it. Same with pitchers using substances. I remember John Lester having a green goo in his glove during the World Series. And who can forget Buchholtz hair. Pitchers have been using this stuff for a while without a care by MLB. Now they are cracking down. If Cole gets busted now he is a cheater. I pretty much guarantee he was using it with the Astros though, so I doubt he stopped when he came to NY. "Crisco. Bardol. Vagisil. Any one of them will give you another two to three inches drop on your curve ball. Of course if the umps are watching me real close I'll rub a little jalapeno up my nose, get it running and if I need to load the ball up I just...wipe my nose." Harris from Major League
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 9, 2021 10:43:06 GMT -5
I have no problem with it. Neither do I honestly. I didn't have too much of an issue with PED usage either,which goes as far back as the 1960's as far as I know. Players will always try to get an edge. It is what it is. I personally find a lot of hypocrisy on these subjects when it comes to MLB and their purists. The biggest issue I have with it is, MLB isn't trying to "clean up the game", they are trying to get more runs scored because they know offense brings viewers. Every sport its the same. Its why they looked the other way so long on the PEDs issue. McGwire, Sosa and Bonds save baseball for a while there.
|
|
|
Post by SG88 on Jun 9, 2021 10:50:05 GMT -5
Neither do I honestly. I didn't have too much of an issue with PED usage either,which goes as far back as the 1960's as far as I know. Players will always try to get an edge. It is what it is. I personally find a lot of hypocrisy on these subjects when it comes to MLB and their purists. The biggest issue I have with it is, MLB isn't trying to "clean up the game", they are trying to get more runs scored because they know offense brings viewers. Every sport its the same. Its why they looked the other way so long on the PEDs issue. McGwire, Sosa and Bonds save baseball for a while there. It is always about money with them. Once those players made the league as much money as they could, they were discarded like yesterday's news and MLB tried to wipe them and their stats off the face of the earth. IMO, the players will always be ahead of the testing. They are still using to this day. The PED just hasn't been exposed yet.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 10, 2021 5:34:36 GMT -5
Well, that should shut some people up, at least for today.
Cole goes 6 IP, 5 hits, 2 ERs, 0 BBs, 9 Ks, including Donaldson going 0-3 with 2 Ks vs Cole.
Stanton had a day 3-5 with 2 HRs and 5 Ribs.
Miggy Andujar continues to rake.
|
|
|
Post by Fletch842 on Jun 10, 2021 6:04:51 GMT -5
Well, that should shut some people up, at least for today. Cole goes 6 IP, 5 hits, 2 ERs, 0 BBs, 9 Ks, including Donaldson going 0-3 with 2 Ks vs Cole. Stanton had a day 3-5 with 2 HRs and 5 Ribs. Miggy Andujar continues to rake. can we play the Twins every game the rest of the year? Please?????
|
|
|
Post by Dezzr on Jun 10, 2021 8:45:37 GMT -5
Neither do I honestly. I didn't have too much of an issue with PED usage either,which goes as far back as the 1960's as far as I know. Players will always try to get an edge. It is what it is. I personally find a lot of hypocrisy on these subjects when it comes to MLB and their purists. The biggest issue I have with it is, MLB isn't trying to "clean up the game", they are trying to get more runs scored because they know offense brings viewers. Every sport its the same. Its why they looked the other way so long on the PEDs issue. McGwire, Sosa and Bonds save baseball for a while there. MLB has no clue what they want to do. They juice up the balls, more homeruns, pitchers start bitching. Change the ball back, batters are swinging for the fences and cant hit for shit, they start bitching about pitchers. Now theres talk about moving the mound back. Its a ****ing joke. They dont know how to get more viewers. I say they should give up and accept it. You know who goes to the games and watches them on tv?? The "purests" and the "purests" teaching their kids.If the league keeps playing the analytic game and changing the rules theyll chase them away. Doesnt seem like the league cares
|
|
|
Post by Dezzr on Jun 10, 2021 8:47:29 GMT -5
Well, that should shut some people up, at least for today. Cole goes 6 IP, 5 hits, 2 ERs, 0 BBs, 9 Ks, including Donaldson going 0-3 with 2 Ks vs Cole. Stanton had a day 3-5 with 2 HRs and 5 Ribs. Miggy Andujar continues to rake. After he struck out Donaldson the second time, he struck the next guy out on 3 pitches and walked off the mound likeaaa boss
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 10, 2021 10:04:10 GMT -5
The thing that also bothers me about this doctoring of baseballs crap, and flip flopping by MLB on their stance depending on what way the wind blows, is the fact the hitters are being taught/ trained to hit HRs. Swing big or go home. You want to raise averages? Use the entire field when the defense applies the shift instead of just cranking it into the teeth of the shift. Yankees are perfectly content with a .200 hitter if he hits 30+ HRs. With that, brings a wrath of strikeouts. Thats the bigger issue than pitchers suing a substance IMO. That, and the damn umpires wobbly K-zones. Hitters dont know what a strike is anymore. Ask Judge. He was forced to swing at pitches below his knee caps due to umpires calling it a strike on him for years.
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Jun 10, 2021 10:54:38 GMT -5
The biggest issue I have with it is, MLB isn't trying to "clean up the game", they are trying to get more runs scored because they know offense brings viewers. Every sport its the same. Its why they looked the other way so long on the PEDs issue. McGwire, Sosa and Bonds save baseball for a while there. MLB has no clue what they want to do. They juice up the balls, more homeruns, pitchers start bitching. Change the ball back, batters are swinging for the fences and cant hit for shit, they start bitching about pitchers. Now theres talk about moving the mound back. Its a ****ing joke. They dont know how to get more viewers. I say they should give up and accept it. You know who goes to the games and watches them on tv?? The "purests" and the "purests" teaching their kids.If the league keeps playing the analytic game and changing the rules theyll chase them away. Doesnt seem like the league cares
I don't even care for the strike zone box that they superimpose on the batter, and especially hate when they show it blown up and from different angles. I appreciate how catchers (who have the toughest job on the feild) frame balls, and think strikes should be rewarded in certain instances outside the strike zone. I'll be completely done, once they go to robo umps.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 10, 2021 11:53:37 GMT -5
MLB has no clue what they want to do. They juice up the balls, more homeruns, pitchers start bitching. Change the ball back, batters are swinging for the fences and cant hit for shit, they start bitching about pitchers. Now theres talk about moving the mound back. Its a ****ing joke. They dont know how to get more viewers. I say they should give up and accept it. You know who goes to the games and watches them on tv?? The "purests" and the "purests" teaching their kids.If the league keeps playing the analytic game and changing the rules theyll chase them away. Doesnt seem like the league cares
I don't even care for the strike zone box that they superimpose on the batter, and especially hate when they show it blown up and from different angles. I appreciate how catchers (who have the toughest job on the feild) frame balls, and think strikes should be rewarded in certain instances outside the strike zone. I'll be completely done, once they go to robo umps. Are you ok with a great looking "catch" in football and the receiver playing it off as a catch, that actually hit the ground? If it's not a catch/strike, it's shouldn't be called a catch/strike. Robo umps would be great IMO. Reduce the guessing on applying a rule that changes the outcomes of games. Veteran pitchers should have the same size K zone as a rookie. I do like framing, but it's out of hand and a thing of the past with technology.
|
|
|
Post by jimmieray on Jun 10, 2021 12:08:47 GMT -5
I don't even care for the strike zone box that they superimpose on the batter, and especially hate when they show it blown up and from different angles. I appreciate how catchers (who have the toughest job on the feild) frame balls, and think strikes should be rewarded in certain instances outside the strike zone. I'll be completely done, once they go to robo umps. Are you ok with a great looking "catch" in football and the receiver playing it off as a catch, that actually hit the ground? If it's not a catch/strike, it's shouldn't be called a catch/strike. Robo umps would be great IMO. Reduce the guessing on applying a rule that changes the outcomes of games. Veteran pitchers should have the same size K zone as a rookie. I do like framing, but it's out of hand and a thing of the past with technology. I realize you and others feel different, and get infuriated over calls. I would think a purist would find it part of the game, and understand it all evens out over the stretch of the season. Picking up on how any particular umpire is going to call the strike zone adds an extra aspect to each game.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 10, 2021 21:37:34 GMT -5
Interesting point of view
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jun 11, 2021 9:21:54 GMT -5
Interesting point of view I agree 100% he is making the same point I made.
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Jun 11, 2021 9:38:55 GMT -5
Interesting point of view I agree 100% he is making the same point I made. I've heard this argument before and it seems to be common among MLB hitters. They know better than we fans. It may have some merit.
What bothers me is that everyone knows everyone is doing it and the umps just ask pitchers not to make it obvious. If this is accepted practice (however unspoken) and hitters are OK with it, then they should just allow it and control it.
|
|
|
Post by TEM on Jun 11, 2021 9:46:02 GMT -5
I agree 100% he is making the same point I made. I've heard this argument before and it seems to be common among MLB hitters. They know better than we fans. It may have some merit.
What bothers me is that everyone knows everyone is doing it and the umps just ask pitchers not to make it obvious. If this is accepted practice (however unspoken) and hitters are OK with it, then they should just allow it and control it.
Make it a standard grip agent league wide.
|
|
|
Post by giantlegacy on Jun 11, 2021 10:06:01 GMT -5
I've heard this argument before and it seems to be common among MLB hitters. They know better than we fans. It may have some merit.
What bothers me is that everyone knows everyone is doing it and the umps just ask pitchers not to make it obvious. If this is accepted practice (however unspoken) and hitters are OK with it, then they should just allow it and control it.
Make it a standard grip agent league wide. Exactly
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 11, 2021 10:09:03 GMT -5
I agree 100% he is making the same point I made. I've heard this argument before and it seems to be common among MLB hitters. They know better than we fans. It may have some merit.
What bothers me is that everyone knows everyone is doing it and the umps just ask pitchers not to make it obvious. If this is accepted practice (however unspoken) and hitters are OK with it, then they should just allow it and control it.
He made a good point about the hitters wearing gloves and tac and pine tar on the bats. How would they fair with bare hands? Rarely done, I can think of only a few big names like Jorge Posada or Hunter Pence. I think Wil Meyers is gloveless too. I wanna say Vlad Guerrero Sr didnt as well. Definitely gives the hitter an advantage. Why cant the pitcher?
|
|
|
Post by Morehead State on Jun 11, 2021 10:21:13 GMT -5
I've heard this argument before and it seems to be common among MLB hitters. They know better than we fans. It may have some merit.
What bothers me is that everyone knows everyone is doing it and the umps just ask pitchers not to make it obvious. If this is accepted practice (however unspoken) and hitters are OK with it, then they should just allow it and control it.
He made a good point about the hitters wearing gloves and tac and pine tar on the bats. How would they fair with bare hands? Rarely done, I can think of only a few big names like Jorge Posada or Hunter Pence. I think Wil Meyers is gloveless too. I wanna say Vlad Guerrero Sr didnt as well. Definitely gives the hitter an advantage. Why cant the pitcher? Well to be devil's advocate here....the grip for a pitcher can have a huge difference regarding actual performance. The spin rate changes completely. I slider can now explode with the "substance". With hitters, it doesn't increase your bat speed or help you identify pitches.
In other words, the grip agent can have a profound effect on the actual performance of the pitcher...in very profound ways. It can turn a mediocre pitcher into an all star.
So there IS a difference regarding hitters and pitchers. the affect is far more profound with pitchers.
But I agree that an accepted substance out in the open is probably the best result. They DO allow rosin already. Perhaps a modest material to help grip isn't a bad thing. But you and I know that they will find ways to abuse that as well. So the cycle may continue.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 11, 2021 10:33:47 GMT -5
He made a good point about the hitters wearing gloves and tac and pine tar on the bats. How would they fair with bare hands? Rarely done, I can think of only a few big names like Jorge Posada or Hunter Pence. I think Wil Meyers is gloveless too. I wanna say Vlad Guerrero Sr didnt as well. Definitely gives the hitter an advantage. Why cant the pitcher? Well to be devil's advocate here....the grip for a pitcher can have a huge difference regarding actual performance. The spin rate changes completely. I slider can now explode with the "substance". With hitters, it doesn't increase your bat speed or help you identify pitches.
In other words, the grip agent can have a profound effect on the actual performance of the pitcher...in very profound ways. It can turn a mediocre pitcher into an all star.
So there IS a difference regarding hitters and pitchers. the affect is far more profound with pitchers.
But I agree that an accepted substance out in the open is probably the best result. They DO allow rosin already. Perhaps a modest material to help grip isn't a bad thing. But you and I know that they will find ways to abuse that as well. So the cycle may continue.
While it doesn't help identify pitches, it certainly can increase bat speed. I tried to not use gloves for a little bit in high school and it just felt crazy. Never felt comfortable. Didn't have the same pop off the bat. Plus cold days, the hands rung after hitting the ball of the end of the bat or the handle. I don't have the analytical breakdown of bat speed but I am willing to bet you are wrong there. A better grip on a ball makes you throw harder and spin faster. A better grip on a bat makes you swing harder / faster. Its kinda the same reason why Tom Brady deflated footballs. Better grip in the cold weather in NE. Easier to spin it. And receivers wear gloves making it easier to catch it. Maybe that's it. Maybe they need to invent universally accepted pitching gloves.
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 12, 2021 10:51:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by TheAnalyst on Jun 12, 2021 15:39:43 GMT -5
Ever since the Yankees resigned Hicks and Severino, they have been injured.
Severino was rehabbing... until....
|
|