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Post by Morehead State on Dec 17, 2020 14:42:07 GMT -5
Here's another interesting stat.....
Daniel Jones W/L with Saquan Barkley..........1-9 Daniel Jones W/L without Saquan Barkley.....6-8
Daniel Jones has won exactly ONE game in his career with Saquan in the backfield. That was the Washington game last year.
What does this suggest?
Nothing because wins and losses are a team thing. When Eli and OBJ were lighting it up they were scoring points but the defense wasn't good enough this is only the second time since mid 2012 that the defense could hold a lead 2016 and 2020. Special teams also was a huge issue. If all three phases are not giving at least average play your not gonna win a lot. Yes but these numbers are with the exact team in both situations. The exact team with the exact QB. The only difference is the presence of one player.
Again, you draft players to help you win football games, not to create nice stats. These high profile, highly paid RB's need to be fed. Is that always in the interest of winning? Not sure. Are you?
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Post by Kase1 on Dec 17, 2020 14:42:33 GMT -5
Barkley was the one slapping the ball out of Jones' hands? I'm just pointing out facts here. It can be a bazaar coincidence, or maybe there is another explanation.
Could it be that having a guy like Saquan can get you out of your offense and keeps you from stretching the field? Dumping off to Saquan all the time can create pretty stats, but does it really help you win football games? Is that why teams with premier backs almost never win SB's anymore?
I truly don't know the answers to these questions but it's an interesting phenomenon either way.
I thought wins and losses were a team effort, while individual stats were not |
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 17, 2020 14:43:31 GMT -5
Here's another interesting stat.....
Daniel Jones W/L with Saquan Barkley..........1-9 Daniel Jones W/L without Saquan Barkley.....6-8
Daniel Jones has won exactly ONE game in his career with Saquan in the backfield. That was the Washington game last year.
What does this suggest?
Why dont YOU tell us what you think this suggests?? 1. I like it when you're home pounding on keys when there is a snow day. Makes me nostalgic for the old THEE thread days. 2. I don't know what it means but there are possible reasons that I have covered.
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 17, 2020 14:44:00 GMT -5
I'm just pointing out facts here. It can be a bazaar coincidence, or maybe there is another explanation.
Could it be that having a guy like Saquan can get you out of your offense and keeps you from stretching the field? Dumping off to Saquan all the time can create pretty stats, but does it really help you win football games? Is that why teams with premier backs almost never win SB's anymore?
I truly don't know the answers to these questions but it's an interesting phenomenon either way.
I thought wins and losses were a team effort, while individual stats were not Precisely. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 17, 2020 14:44:44 GMT -5
You give these boards too much credit, LOL. One would THINK that everyone here would get the modern offense issue, yet here we are I'd say 80% of the elderly that want to go back to that reside at BBV...where ,surprise,Ed tbe guy that runs that side is a big proponents of this... A few are over with the other riff raff that was tossed from here on that other site The few here stay in hiding until a team plays like this in a big game or a fluke game we have no other choice BUT to play this style No matter what that element does exist,and sadly as a whole our fam base has that rep along with Bears fans that are stuck in prehistoric times in how they want to win football games You can't argue with them I'm no youngster. I think the core principals still are the way you win, but I do subscribe to the modern offenses and defenses. With these new systems you just get to those core principals in a different way kind of like when Bill Walsh told the football world the short passing game is gonna be an extension of the run game, he didn't mean abandon it he meant when they gang up on it find another way where your not putting the ball in jeopardy and still producing first downs and running clock balance. I'm still trying to learn all this new stuff it changes fast lol. |
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Post by jimmieray on Dec 17, 2020 14:49:22 GMT -5
Barkley was the one slapping the ball out of Jones' hands? I'm just pointing out facts here. It can be a bazaar coincidence, or maybe there is another explanation.
Could it be that having a guy like Saquan can get you out of your offense and keeps you from stretching the field? Dumping off to Saquan all the time can create pretty stats, but does it really help you win football games? Is that why teams with premier backs almost never win SB's anymore?
I truly don't know the answers to these questions but it's an interesting phenomenon either way.
I did seriously notice that the handoffs from Jones to Barkley didn't seem as smooth as when Eli was doing it. I also don't think Jones was utilizing Barkley as much or as effectively as Eli had. Of course we're talking about a veteran who was doing those things automatically vs. a rookie working on issues with basics. I don't know where these issues will fall in priority, come their reunion next preseason - it's a long list. |
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Post by jimmieray on Dec 17, 2020 14:51:52 GMT -5
Why dont YOU tell us what you think this suggests?? I like it when you're home pounding on keys when there is a snow day. Makes me nostalgic for the old THEE thread days.
We should all be roasting chestnuts. |
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Post by Morehead State on Dec 17, 2020 14:53:30 GMT -5
I'm just pointing out facts here. It can be a bazaar coincidence, or maybe there is another explanation.
Could it be that having a guy like Saquan can get you out of your offense and keeps you from stretching the field? Dumping off to Saquan all the time can create pretty stats, but does it really help you win football games? Is that why teams with premier backs almost never win SB's anymore?
I truly don't know the answers to these questions but it's an interesting phenomenon either way.
I did seriously notice that the handoffs from Jones to Barkley didn't seem as smooth as when Eli was doing it. I also don't think Jones was utilizing Barkley as much or as effectively as Eli had. Of course we're talking about a veteran who was doing those things automatically vs. a rookie working on issues with basics. I don't know where these issues will fall in priority, come their reunion next preseason - it's a long list. Maybe a truly effective running game requires a guy willing to grind for yards inside instead of trying to break everything outside. He's a dynamic player but when he comes back we have to use him in a RB by committee situation. He needs to be only a part of our running attack.
It would also be nice if he doesn't get our QB killed when he's called on in protection.
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 17, 2020 14:57:59 GMT -5
I did seriously notice that the handoffs from Jones to Barkley didn't seem as smooth as when Eli was doing it. I also don't think Jones was utilizing Barkley as much or as effectively as Eli had. Of course we're talking about a veteran who was doing those things automatically vs. a rookie working on issues with basics. I don't know where these issues will fall in priority, come their reunion next preseason - it's a long list. Maybe a truly effective running game requires a guy willing to grind for yards inside instead of trying to break everything outside. He's a dynamic player but when he comes back we have to use him in a RB by committee situation. He needs to be only a part of our running attack.
It would also be nice if he doesn't get our QB killed when he's called on in protection.
You mean like how Shurmur called 80% a gap up the middle runs and Barkley ran it to where he was supposed to but tbe line got zero push ? |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 17, 2020 14:58:17 GMT -5
Nothing because wins and losses are a team thing. When Eli and OBJ were lighting it up they were scoring points but the defense wasn't good enough this is only the second time since mid 2012 that the defense could hold a lead 2016 and 2020. Special teams also was a huge issue. If all three phases are not giving at least average play your not gonna win a lot. Yes but these numbers are with the exact team in both situations. The exact team with the exact QB. The only difference is the presence of one player.
Again, you draft players to help you win football games, not to create nice stats. These high profile, highly paid RB's need to be fed. Is that always in the interest of winning? Not sure. Are you?
Difference is if we could get the production DJ had last year this year we would have more wins. The defense has grown they are being coordinated by a guy who puts guys in position to succeed that is the difference. As I said all the stats in world aren't gonna win games unless you get them from offense defense and special teams. Funny when OBJ was producing crazy numbers his first 2 years he was Mr everything when Barkely out performed that in his 2 years 2000 all purpose yards double digit TDs and in 12 games gave us 1400 all purpose yards a 7 TDs he's nothing. He is more then a running back period and all players get hurt it happened to OBJ who has been healthy for 2 out of 7 years and is on his second major injury going into his 8th year. It happens to WRs RBs TEs DEs LBs. |
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Post by Dezzr on Dec 17, 2020 14:58:34 GMT -5
Nothing because wins and losses are a team thing. When Eli and OBJ were lighting it up they were scoring points but the defense wasn't good enough this is only the second time since mid 2012 that the defense could hold a lead 2016 and 2020. Special teams also was a huge issue. If all three phases are not giving at least average play your not gonna win a lot. Yes but these numbers are with the exact team in both situations. The exact team with the exact QB. The only difference is the presence of one player. aaand a new head coach, aaaand a new OC, aaaand a new scheme.
Its not the same situation.
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Post by Kase1 on Dec 17, 2020 15:21:42 GMT -5
Why dont YOU tell us what you think this suggests?? 1. I like it when you're home pounding on keys when there is a snow day. Makes me nostalgic for the old THEE thread days. 2. I don't know what it means but there are possible reasons that I have covered.
1. Its nice to be home making matzoh ball soup, watching netflix, and roasting the herb while my wife has to work from home, LOL. 2. I did not see your reasons you mentioned, I did see someone say maybe it was because SQB slapped the ball out of DJ's hands, is that it? |
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Post by Kase1 on Dec 17, 2020 15:23:42 GMT -5
I like it when you're home pounding on keys when there is a snow day. Makes me nostalgic for the old THEE thread days.
We should all be roasting chestnuts. oh im roasting something alright.....  |
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Post by Kase1 on Dec 17, 2020 15:31:22 GMT -5
I did seriously notice that the handoffs from Jones to Barkley didn't seem as smooth as when Eli was doing it. I also don't think Jones was utilizing Barkley as much or as effectively as Eli had. Of course we're talking about a veteran who was doing those things automatically vs. a rookie working on issues with basics. I don't know where these issues will fall in priority, come their reunion next preseason - it's a long list. Maybe a truly effective running game requires a guy willing to grind for yards inside instead of trying to break everything outside. He's a dynamic player but when he comes back we have to use him in a RB by committee situation. He needs to be only a part of our running attack.
It would also be nice if he doesn't get our QB killed when he's called on in protection.
He is our bell cow, he should be the focal point of our offense because he is CLEARLY the most talented player on offense. Gallman is a hell of a guy to have as a backup but he is not the game breaking back that Barkley is. Suggesting Barkley bounces everything outside is comical, the only times he did that was when the OL got no push and his running lanes got shut down. You suggesting he was afraid to run up the middle or something?? SQB keeps the defense honest, they cant load up with DBs because SQB is always a threat. They also cant stack the box if we have an actual receiving threat. Barkley makes the passing AND run game better |
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 17, 2020 15:32:51 GMT -5
12 games without SQB in the line up 8 TDs 13 INTs 10 games with SQB in the lineup 23 TDs 8 INTs SQB demands the attention of the opponent in the run and pass game his value is beyond what many think. Other players and coaches have little to no impact on the QB's quality of play and more importantly, the team and its record. I learned that here. |
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Post by Kase1 on Dec 17, 2020 15:34:20 GMT -5
I thought wins and losses were a team effort, while individual stats were not Precisely. So then i dont know what you're getting at here.... DJ played better WITH SQB, yet we lose. That could be on the defense, offense, ST, any number of reasons you didnt list because it doesnt fit your narrative that we win more with SQB on the bench or something, i have no idea what you're trying to get at |
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Post by jaymas on Dec 17, 2020 15:34:28 GMT -5
Yeah, he has a significant impact on the offense. His first two years, didn't necessarily produce a lot of wins, and this year we didn't really get a chance to see what effect he was going to have. Guy had 4 carries at a 7. something yds per carry going in the bears game when he tore his acl. Call me crazy, but I think this was the year that his effect on the offense was going to cascade a little further especially considering I think we're a much better coached team from the HC spot. You can even see the difference from game 1 DJ 279 and 2 TDs did throw picks tho. SQB with this OL once it got going would have piled up numbers for sure. Think they need to learn to give wether it is Galmen or who ever a solid block of 10 to 14 carries and SQB can get 15 or so and try to get him some touches in the passing game. Yeah, I want Gallman to continue to get carries when Saquon is back. Tapping into Saquon's true potential in the passing game should be the number one priority. It keeps is wear and tear touches down, thus extending the career of an explosive player, obviously works as a spell like any good 2nd RB should, and honestly opens up the playbook. Barkley's value (and any defense as a 2nd pick) only works if his explosive play potential is also tied to the passing game, and just is elite as a pass catcher overall. Obviously if the guy is hot, keep feeding him carries, but it shouldn't be stubborn and pre-decided. If he has 15 touches in a game and he's fresh, and some of those are huge receptions or huge runs, I think that realizes his value. Thinking of a RB being only worth it, if he workhorses for 6 years taking 350 to 400 carries a year is what actually makes a RB not worth big investment. If we can view it as just another skill position with the potential for big plays that can be deployed in a variety of ways, the value of a RB inherently changes. |
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Post by jimmieray on Dec 17, 2020 15:39:28 GMT -5
We should all be roasting chestnuts. oh im roasting something alright..... I am soooo in need for weed - but as Abe Lincoln once said "Party on dude!" |
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Post by Kase1 on Dec 17, 2020 15:43:14 GMT -5
oh im roasting something alright..... I am soooo in need for weed - but as Abe Lincoln once said "Party on dude!" "Thats L-i-n-C-o-l-n" 'Yea yea yea, i know how to spell Lincoln'  |
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jerky
Special Teams
Posts: 1,065 
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Post by jerky on Dec 17, 2020 16:03:46 GMT -5
We had a terrible offensive line and terrible defense until after Barkley got injured, saying that we lost because he was playing takes some special kind of thinking.
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 17, 2020 16:19:04 GMT -5
So in other words. He needs great players to succeed. Awesome..
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 17, 2020 17:07:16 GMT -5
12 games without SQB in the line up 8 TDs 13 INTs 10 games with SQB in the lineup 23 TDs 8 INTs SQB demands the attention of the opponent in the run and pass game his value is beyond what many think. Other players and coaches have little to no impact on the QB's quality of play and more importantly, the team and its record. I learned that here. you learned well from some of the top football people in the world he he he. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 17, 2020 17:08:36 GMT -5
So in other words. He needs great players to succeed. Awesome.. I think most QBs might need that. |
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 17, 2020 17:36:34 GMT -5
So in other words. He needs great players to succeed. Awesome.. I think most QBs might need that. Maybe for Christmas Jones can ask Santa for new receivers and a healthy Barkley.. |
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Post by jimmieray on Dec 17, 2020 17:44:45 GMT -5
I think most QBs might need that. Maybe for Christmas Jones can ask Santa for new receivers and a healthy Barkley.. Poor Santa would be like "Oh, another one asking for this - doesn't anyone just want a simple train set any more?" |
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 17, 2020 17:47:48 GMT -5
So in other words. He needs great players to succeed. Awesome.. I think most QBs might need that. Maybe not, I mean list out all the top QBs this year. Hardly any of them have any good players on their rosters. |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 17, 2020 17:54:31 GMT -5
Here's another interesting stat.....
Daniel Jones W/L with Saquan Barkley..........1-9 Daniel Jones W/L without Saquan Barkley.....6-8
Daniel Jones has won exactly ONE game in his career with Saquan in the backfield. That was the Washington game last year.
What does this suggest?
Nothing because wins and losses are a team thing. When Eli and OBJ were lighting it up they were scoring points but the defense wasn't good enough this is only the second time since mid 2012 that the defense could hold a lead 2016 and 2020. Special teams also was a huge issue. If all three phases are not giving at least average play your not gonna win a lot. Wait, wins and losses are a TEAM thing so it means nothing, but this thread is displaying how stats are also a TEAM thing... so the point of this thread doesnt mean anything either then? |
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 17, 2020 17:55:20 GMT -5
I think most QBs might need that. Maybe not, I mean list out all the top QBs this year. Hardly any of them have any good players on their rosters. Daniel Jones. Well, he’s not a top QB. But from what I hear, he has no good players on offense. All the top quarterbacks don’t “need” great players. It helps. Jones, for some reason needs all the help he can get to succeed. |
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 17, 2020 18:03:57 GMT -5
Maybe not, I mean list out all the top QBs this year. Hardly any of them have any good players on their rosters. Daniel Jones. Well, he’s not a top QB. But from what I hear, he has no good players on offense. All the top quarterbacks don’t “need” great players. It helps. Jones, for some reason needs all the help he can get to succeed. I said top QBs, not Jones. Of course none of those heroes "need" good offensive players but they all just happen to have them. What a funny coincidence. Jones isn't playing well, maybe because he's having a rough patch or maybe because he's just not good. I don't know yet but I doubt adding a very good WR would change that very much this year. |
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 17, 2020 18:14:29 GMT -5
Daniel Jones. Well, he’s not a top QB. But from what I hear, he has no good players on offense. All the top quarterbacks don’t “need” great players. It helps. Jones, for some reason needs all the help he can get to succeed. I said top QBs, not Jones. Of course none of those heroes "need" good offensive players but they all just happen to have them. What a funny coincidence. Jones isn't playing well, maybe because he's having a rough patch or maybe because he's just not good. I don't know yet but I doubt adding a very good WR would change that very much this year. No one ever disputed that top quarterbacks have talent surrounding them. Some great quarterbacks actually make others better.. Who would have thought? Not all of them need a shiny DeAndre Hopkins or a brand new Davante Adams. There a few who make unknowns become known. I don’t know about Daniel Jones either. But I do know he needs a hell a lot more than what we have. |
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