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Post by allnygin on Dec 17, 2020 18:16:53 GMT -5
Daniel Jones. Well, he’s not a top QB. But from what I hear, he has no good players on offense. All the top quarterbacks don’t “need” great players. It helps. Jones, for some reason needs all the help he can get to succeed. I said top QBs, not Jones. Of course none of those heroes "need" good offensive players but they all just happen to have them. What a funny coincidence. Jones isn't playing well, maybe because he's having a rough patch or maybe because he's just not good. I don't know yet but I doubt adding a very good WR would change that very much this year. I mean Watson stands the part even though his situation certainly isn't the best. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 17, 2020 18:21:24 GMT -5
Nothing because wins and losses are a team thing. When Eli and OBJ were lighting it up they were scoring points but the defense wasn't good enough this is only the second time since mid 2012 that the defense could hold a lead 2016 and 2020. Special teams also was a huge issue. If all three phases are not giving at least average play your not gonna win a lot. Wait, wins and losses are a TEAM thing so it means nothing, but this thread is displaying how stats are also a TEAM thing... so the point of this thread doesnt mean anything either then? LOL if you say so the point of this thread had nothing to do with wins and losses again your wrong. TEAMs offense defense special teams win games game changers on any side of the ball can help put that unit over the top. don't like the thread don't comment. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 17, 2020 19:02:11 GMT -5
I think most QBs might need that. Maybe for Christmas Jones can ask Santa for new receivers and a healthy Barkley.. How about some legs and accuracy to. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 17, 2020 19:08:15 GMT -5
I said top QBs, not Jones. Of course none of those heroes "need" good offensive players but they all just happen to have them. What a funny coincidence. Jones isn't playing well, maybe because he's having a rough patch or maybe because he's just not good. I don't know yet but I doubt adding a very good WR would change that very much this year. No one ever disputed that top quarterbacks have talent surrounding them. Some great quarterbacks actually make others better.. Who would have thought? Not all of them need a shiny DeAndre Hopkins or a brand new Davante Adams. There a few who make unknowns become known. I don’t know about Daniel Jones either. But I do know he needs a hell a lot more than what we have. Remember Terry Bradshaw throwing balls op for grabs and Stallworth and Swann making him look great those guys were amazing getting up and getting it. QBs need guys who they can trust will win the 50/50 balls. |
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Post by Kruunch on Dec 17, 2020 19:50:11 GMT -5
No one ever disputed that top quarterbacks have talent surrounding them. Some great quarterbacks actually make others better.. Who would have thought? Not all of them need a shiny DeAndre Hopkins or a brand new Davante Adams. There a few who make unknowns become known. I don’t know about Daniel Jones either. But I do know he needs a hell a lot more than what we have. Remember Terry Bradshaw throwing balls op for grabs and Stallworth and Swann making him look great those guys were amazing getting up and getting it. QBs need guys who they can trust will win the 50/50 balls. Is Lynn Swann and Stallworth enough for Jones? Or would he need Jerry Rice too? |
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Post by TheAnalyst on Dec 17, 2020 19:53:33 GMT -5
Wait, wins and losses are a TEAM thing so it means nothing, but this thread is displaying how stats are also a TEAM thing... so the point of this thread doesnt mean anything either then? LOL if you say so the point of this thread had nothing to do with wins and losses again your wrong. TEAMs offense defense special teams win games game changers on any side of the ball can help put that unit over the top. don't like the thread don't comment. No, what I'm saying is you called out Ws and Ls as meaningless (for some reason) and said those are team things, while also saying DJ needs SQB to have good stats which also proves it a team thing if he is dependent on others to have those good stats. Get it? |
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Post by jaymas on Dec 17, 2020 21:05:00 GMT -5
Barkley was the one slapping the ball out of Jones' hands? I'm just pointing out facts here. It can be a bazaar coincidence, or maybe there is another explanation.
Could it be that having a guy like Saquan can get you out of your offense and keeps you from stretching the field? Dumping off to Saquan all the time can create pretty stats, but does it really help you win football games? Is that why teams with premier backs almost never win SB's anymore?
I truly don't know the answers to these questions but it's an interesting phenomenon either way.
It's not though. Winning as an outcome has far more factors that go into that outcome than offensive performance as an outcome. The point here is, the offense and Daniel Jones perform better by pretty much every quantifiable mean that exists. But that in no way guarantees winning. I'd think that this year, our winning proves that a much much better defense can carry a bigger impact than a lot of things, Saquon Barkley presence on the offense included. But that's football, great defense of varying kinds will always be a pinnacle thing. So one would think that if you combine that with the better offensive performance a guy like Barkley brings, may even be good for a few more wins, since I'm definitely sure better offensive performance would compliment our much better defense pretty well. |
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Post by TCHOF on Dec 17, 2020 21:08:40 GMT -5
you guys both need to chill... there are like 3 people who maybe want that kind of offense....maybe. We all get the modern offense issue. You give these boards too much credit, LOL. One would THINK that everyone here would get the modern offense issue, yet here we are Need a good QB to have a modern offense |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 17, 2020 21:10:03 GMT -5
Remember Terry Bradshaw throwing balls op for grabs and Stallworth and Swann making him look great those guys were amazing getting up and getting it. QBs need guys who they can trust will win the 50/50 balls. Is Lynn Swann and Stallworth enough for Jones? Or would he need Jerry Rice too? Just them it worked form Badshaw. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 17, 2020 21:20:07 GMT -5
LOL if you say so the point of this thread had nothing to do with wins and losses again your wrong. TEAMs offense defense special teams win games game changers on any side of the ball can help put that unit over the top. don't like the thread don't comment. No, what I'm saying is you called out Ws and Ls as meaningless (for some reason) and said those are team things, while also saying DJ needs SQB to have good stats which also proves it a team thing if he is dependent on others to have those good stats. Get it? But what I meant as a team thing, is it takes three phases special teams offense and defense to be a good team. Barkely or a guy like B Hopkins OBJ or Nick Chubb can help one phase of the offense a multi purpose back he opens space up for WRs and is a threat in the run and pass. For chubb he does the same thing by forcing teams to play 8 man boxes.. These players are not going to win games for there team unless they have good defense and special teams for me team is the whole team. Wins and losses matter but one superstars whether it is a RB WR QB is not going to win with out the rest of the team being good enough. for that matter you can have a WR RB and QB and still not win without a complete team. |
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Post by nick030567 on Dec 17, 2020 21:42:07 GMT -5
They want a slow plodding straight line runner who cant catch and is physically unable to gain more than 5yds. They also want a QB who REFUSES to throw the ball, let alone one who is mobile, that is HERESY . And WR's forget em, they're just overpaid diva's, we dont need them. We need in-line TE blockers who slug down the field and can only run straight line routes IT WORKED IN 1847, IT IS PROVEN, IT WILL WORK IN 2020 you guys both need to chill... there are like 3 people who maybe want that kind of offense....maybe. We all get the modern offense issue. I don't even see anyone that style wants that offense at all lol. I see A LOT more guys wh think you don't need an O-line or running game and that the future is just pass pass pass |
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Post by nick030567 on Dec 17, 2020 21:44:46 GMT -5
Maybe a truly effective running game requires a guy willing to grind for yards inside instead of trying to break everything outside. He's a dynamic player but when he comes back we have to use him in a RB by committee situation. He needs to be only a part of our running attack.
It would also be nice if he doesn't get our QB killed when he's called on in protection.
You mean like how Shurmur called 80% a gap up the middle runs and Barkley ran it to where he was supposed to but tbe line got zero push ? I think you're being fair with 80% lol. I've never watched anything more stubborn or aggravating. Felt like it was 90-95% |
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Post by McCherry on Dec 17, 2020 21:50:57 GMT -5
This is a pointless stat. Saquan was playing on a high ankle sprain and was a shadow of himself for the majority of the 2019 season. Barkley averaged 4.6 yds per carry last year. So what's Wayne Gallman averaging per carry this year? 4.6 yards.
But it's encouraging to know that Barkley's going to return with a wrecked knee and save Jones's future... Got it.
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Post by Sarcasman on Dec 18, 2020 1:35:41 GMT -5
I said top QBs, not Jones. Of course none of those heroes "need" good offensive players but they all just happen to have them. What a funny coincidence. Jones isn't playing well, maybe because he's having a rough patch or maybe because he's just not good. I don't know yet but I doubt adding a very good WR would change that very much this year. No one ever disputed that top quarterbacks have talent surrounding them. Some great quarterbacks actually make others better.. Who would have thought? Not all of them need a shiny DeAndre Hopkins or a brand new Davante Adams. There a few who make unknowns become known. I don’t know about Daniel Jones either. But I do know he needs a hell a lot more than what we have. I'm not disputing that. QB is the most important position on the field and having a good QB is essential as far as elevating, I agree it's common between individual players. For teams, very very few can do it all the time, many do it some of the time. |
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Post by FundamentallySoundJones on Dec 18, 2020 6:09:20 GMT -5
12 games without SQB in the line up 8 TDs 13 INTs 10 games with SQB in the lineup 23 TDs 8 INTs SQB demands the attention of the opponent in the run and pass game his value is beyond what many think. How many wins with Barkley in? |
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Post by DJones19 on Dec 18, 2020 9:56:47 GMT -5
True. I have an interesting, stat too. Ryan Tannehill's record on a good team vs a bad team: Bad Team: 42-46 Good Team: 16-7 Ryan went from bust to hero and is now easily a top 5-10 QB in the league. Saquon was hobbled last year but still was a great catching balls out of the backfield. Dion Lewis is alright but is no Saquon. Gallman isn't much of a threat to catch the ball. I've been critical on Joe Judge but I like how he emphasizes team and not too much on a player. COVID contributed to the slow start and we lack talent on the offensive side of the ball. |
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Post by giantlegacy on Dec 18, 2020 9:59:51 GMT -5
True. I have an interesting, stat too. Ryan Tannehill's record on a good team vs a bad team: Bad Team: 42-46 Good Team: 16-7 Ryan went from bust to hero and is now easily a top 5-10 QB in the league. Saquon was hobbled last year but still was a great catching balls out of the backfield. Dion Lewis is alright but is no Saquon. Gallman isn't much of a threat to catch the ball. I've been critical on Joe Judge but I like how he emphasizes team and not too much on a player. COVID contributed to the slow start and we lack talent on the offensive side of the ball. Look at Corey Davis this year as well with a really good qb..(he is an UFA and would be a perfect get as he is a dynamic playmaker averaging like 17 yards a catch) |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 18, 2020 11:08:27 GMT -5
12 games without SQB in the line up 8 TDs 13 INTs 10 games with SQB in the lineup 23 TDs 8 INTs SQB demands the attention of the opponent in the run and pass game his value is beyond what many think. How many wins with Barkley in? How many wins did the defense choke up or special teams screwed up or the offense did play up to standard TEAMs that are good in all three phases have wins players contribute to there side of the ball wether it is special teams Offense or defense. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Dec 18, 2020 11:11:49 GMT -5
True. I have an interesting, stat too. Ryan Tannehill's record on a good team vs a bad team: Bad Team: 42-46 Good Team: 16-7 Ryan went from bust to hero and is now easily a top 5-10 QB in the league. Saquon was hobbled last year but still was a great catching balls out of the backfield. Dion Lewis is alright but is no Saquon. Gallman isn't much of a threat to catch the ball. I've been critical on Joe Judge but I like how he emphasizes team and not too much on a player. COVID contributed to the slow start and we lack talent on the offensive side of the ball. We have some folks that have a hard time understanding the concept of if your good in all 3 phases of the game you win players contribute to their side of the ball complimentary ball. If you take the numbers Jones had with SQB and incerthem this year think it might add 2 or 3 more wins. |
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Post by Miked1958 on Dec 19, 2020 11:14:35 GMT -5
12 games without SQB in the line up 8 TDs 13 INTs 10 games with SQB in the lineup 23 TDs 8 INTs SQB demands the attention of the opponent in the run and pass game his value is beyond what many think. Of course he does. Barkley's mere presence dictates the entire focus of opposing defenses. Yes!! If they can land a Devonte Smith or a Jalen Waddle type explosive WR theyd be in business next year. The are right in the right spot to grab one of between 7-10 in the Draft. Youd have SQB running and being a huge threat out of the BF. Then Slayton with the pressure taken off him by one of those elite receivers being a #2 i think he steps up to the next level. |
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