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Post by thetruth on Jan 10, 2021 17:07:08 GMT -5
The amount that people on these boards overrate Jones and underrate his peers relative to him is shocking. But maybe not surprising? Watson's offence put up almost a TD more than the Giants per game. 25 ppg to 18. Houstons defence gave up 29 ppg to 22 ppg for Giants. Watson in our team would be a problem, we'd have more ppg than ppg against, Watson did this with a very poor supporting cast. Our offence would be great without the need for playmakers and great OL. Much easier and safer than trying to build around an average at best QB Pretty sure more than just QB play went into the Texans scoring vs the Giants scoring. The Texans this season were 18th in scoring. The Giants last year were...18th in scoring. Adding Watson to any trash heap of a team won't make them suddenly amazing. We are not pursuing Watson, because what we would give up is not worth what he would bring to us. Yeah there is no comparing Watsons impact to Daniels, well, unless you're a Giants fans who sees no wrong. Bring up the Houston offence and tell me what talent they have outside of Watson. Kid doesn't need excuses to perform. Thats been reserved for Giants QB's for a long while so I get why you dont see it. We're not pursing Watson because our FO clearly, as evidenced by the last decade, has little idea as to what they're trying to do. Not surprising at all. They'll build around Daniel, release hes not championship calibre regardless of talent around him, and move on in a few years or double down with a long term contract.
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 10, 2021 17:14:07 GMT -5
I would give up 1st Round picks for the next 2-3 years for Watson without hesitation However, it is other teams who are far more desperate for a QB than us so they will be some insane offers for him if they do decide to trade him Early in this thread I said three 1sts and three 2nds...Watson is a monster, and some team would part with that kind of exchange, in my opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 17:17:04 GMT -5
I would give up 1st Round picks for the next 2-3 years for Watson without hesitation However, it is other teams who are far more desperate for a QB than us so they will be some insane offers for him if they do decide to trade him Early in this thread I said three 1sts and three 2nds...Watson is a monster, and some team would part with that kind of exchange, in my opinion. Indy would do it in a heartbeat. Their team is pretty much set for the next 3 years
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 10, 2021 17:22:17 GMT -5
Pretty sure more than just QB play went into the Texans scoring vs the Giants scoring. The Texans this season were 18th in scoring. The Giants last year were...18th in scoring. Adding Watson to any trash heap of a team won't make them suddenly amazing. We are not pursuing Watson, because what we would give up is not worth what he would bring to us. Yeah there is no comparing Watsons impact to Daniels, well, unless you're a Giants fans who sees no wrong. Bring up the Houston offence and tell me what talent they have outside of Watson. Kid doesn't need excuses to perform. Thats been reserved for Giants QB's for a long while so I get why you dont see it. We're not pursing Watson because our FO clearly, as evidenced by the last decade, has little idea as to what they're trying to do. Not surprising at all. They'll build around Daniel, release hes not championship calibre regardless of talent around him, and move on in a few years or double down with a long term contract. If this happens...and I don't know the cap implications for Houston...some team will look at Watson and do what ever it takes to get him. It will be a massive trade. And you are correct; 100% it won't be the Giants.
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Post by Delicreep on Jan 10, 2021 17:26:36 GMT -5
Early in this thread I said three 1sts and three 2nds...Watson is a monster, and some team would part with that kind of exchange, in my opinion. Indy would do it in a heartbeat. Their team is pretty much set for the next 3 years Would Washington? It would be a very Gerry move. Would Pittsburg? Ah...I don't even want to figure all the places that would jump at that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 17:55:24 GMT -5
Indy would do it in a heartbeat. Their team is pretty much set for the next 3 years Would Washington? It would be a very Gerry move. Would Pittsburg? Ah...I don't even want to figure all the places that would jump at that. Teams who wouldnt mind sacrificing multiple years of high draft picks for Watson, imo, are.. Colts, Bears, 49ers, Falcons, Panthers, Lions, Patriots & Broncos Heard reports about Watson willing to drop his no-trade clause only if he goes to Miami in exchange for Tua and multiple picks. That would be crazy.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 10, 2021 19:09:40 GMT -5
Yeah there is no comparing Watsons impact to Daniels, well, unless you're a Giants fans who sees no wrong. Bring up the Houston offence and tell me what talent they have outside of Watson. Kid doesn't need excuses to perform. Thats been reserved for Giants QB's for a long while so I get why you dont see it. We're not pursing Watson because our FO clearly, as evidenced by the last decade, has little idea as to what they're trying to do. Not surprising at all. They'll build around Daniel, release hes not championship calibre regardless of talent around him, and move on in a few years or double down with a long term contract. I am not comparing him to Jones. I am stating I would not give up a bunch of high draft picks for him unless I had a team with all the pieces in tack just waiting for a QB. If I were the Bucs or Saints and my QB retired this year I would trade for Watson. If I were the Jets or Jags I would not trade for him.
I don't see him as a great QB that will lift the crappy team around him. If you do that's cool.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 10, 2021 19:12:40 GMT -5
Yeah there is no comparing Watsons impact to Daniels, well, unless you're a Giants fans who sees no wrong. Bring up the Houston offence and tell me what talent they have outside of Watson. Kid doesn't need excuses to perform. Thats been reserved for Giants QB's for a long while so I get why you dont see it. We're not pursing Watson because our FO clearly, as evidenced by the last decade, has little idea as to what they're trying to do. Not surprising at all. They'll build around Daniel, release hes not championship calibre regardless of talent around him, and move on in a few years or double down with a long term contract. I am not comparing him to Jones. I am stating I would not give up a bunch of high draft picks for him unless I had a team with all the pieces in tack just waiting for a QB. If I were the Bucs or Saints and my QB retired this year I would trade for Watson. If I were the Jets or Jags I would not trade for him.
I don't see him as a great QB that will lift the crappy team around him. If you do that's cool.
You dont see Watson lifting a crappy team around him than that is absolutely your right. As incorrect as it may be.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 10, 2021 19:16:50 GMT -5
You dont see Watson lifting a crappy team around him than that is absolutely your right. As incorrect as it may be. Thank you. I guess we will see when it's all said and done but right now he is a QB that just won 4 games. When he starts lifting let me know haha.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 10, 2021 19:46:10 GMT -5
You dont see Watson lifting a crappy team around him than that is absolutely your right. As incorrect as it may be. Thank you. I guess we will see when it's all said and done but right now he is a QB that just won 4 games. When he starts lifting let me know haha. If Daniel Jones had a defence that gave up 29 ppg he may never win a game again. Food for thought. With Watsons defence DJ would Jones would be something close 0-16 this year. Considering, the most points a Daniel Jones led offence put up this past year was a whooping 27 points against the Eagles. A wholesome 17.5 ppg in this day and age. Comedy, lol Watson needs to coach up that defence not to do that. Bum!! We all have opinions. But at least apply some context to yours other than hopes and dreams
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 10, 2021 19:58:32 GMT -5
If Daniel Jones had a defence that gave up 29 ppg he may never win a game again. Food for thought. With Watsons defence DJ would Jones would be something close 0-16 this year. Considering, the most points a Daniel Jones led offence put up this past year was a whooping 27 points against the Eagles. A wholesome 17.5 ppg in this day and age. Comedy, lol Watson needs to coach up that defence not to do that. Bum!! We all have opinions. But at least apply some context to yours other than hopes and dreams The problem is you keep bringing up Daniel Jones. My opinion of Watson has ZERO to do with my opinion of Jones.
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Post by thetruth on Jan 10, 2021 20:03:14 GMT -5
If Daniel Jones had a defence that gave up 29 ppg he may never win a game again. Food for thought. With Watsons defence DJ would Jones would be something close 0-16 this year. Considering, the most points a Daniel Jones led offence put up this past year was a whooping 27 points against the Eagles. A wholesome 17.5 ppg in this day and age. Comedy, lol Watson needs to coach up that defence not to do that. Bum!! We all have opinions. But at least apply some context to yours other than hopes and dreams The problem is you keep bringing up Daniel Jones. My opinion of Watson has ZERO to do with my opinion of Jones. Your opinion of Watsons is apparently strictly W/Ls as you've referenced. Correct? if thats not it. What exactly is your point? I applied context showing you why simply looking at records does not tell you a thing. The Defence and Offence operate separately. Watson absolutely lifted that offense. It was/is horrible without him. Less talent than what Jones and the Giants have to work with. Watson comes here we're playoff calibre with him and the Defence alone
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 10, 2021 20:51:11 GMT -5
Your opinion of Watsons is apparently strictly W/Ls as you've referenced. Correct? if thats not it. What exactly is your point? I applied context showing you why simply looking at records does not tell you a thing. The Defence and Offence operate separately. Watson absolutely lifted that offense. It was/is horrible without him. Less talent than what Jones and the Giants have to work with. Watson comes here we're playoff calibre with him and the Defence alone I thought my point was pretty clear. I don't think Watson is a QB that will take a poor team and make them compete. There for if I were running a poor team I would not give up a ton of draft capital to get him. The 49ers, Bucs and Saints are all teams were I would pursue him (assuming my QB retired). The Jets and Jags are examples of teams where I would not pursue him.
He simply does not WOW me. I think he is good, not great.
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Post by Parademon1 on Jan 11, 2021 6:46:35 GMT -5
Your opinion of Watsons is apparently strictly W/Ls as you've referenced. Correct? if thats not it. What exactly is your point? I applied context showing you why simply looking at records does not tell you a thing. The Defence and Offence operate separately. Watson absolutely lifted that offense. It was/is horrible without him. Less talent than what Jones and the Giants have to work with. Watson comes here we're playoff calibre with him and the Defence alone I thought my point was pretty clear. I don't think Watson is a QB that will take a poor team and make them compete. There for if I were running a poor team I would not give up a ton of draft capital to get him. The 49ers, Bucs and Saints are all teams were I would pursue him (assuming my QB retired). The Jets and Jags are examples of teams where I would not pursue him.
He simply does not WOW me. I think he is good, not great.
Unfortunately, in today's NFL, being a "Good" QB is enough to warrant multi million $$ contracts. Kirk Cousins is a prime example, good QB, but not great & he got paid. Jimmy G in SF is another. None has won anything, but is paid as if they did. Only a handful of great QBs in the game today, the vast majority are good, decent, mediocre or flat out stink. Heck, some get paid from home!
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Post by TEM on Jan 11, 2021 8:13:38 GMT -5
Your opinion of Watsons is apparently strictly W/Ls as you've referenced. Correct? if thats not it. What exactly is your point? I applied context showing you why simply looking at records does not tell you a thing. The Defence and Offence operate separately. Watson absolutely lifted that offense. It was/is horrible without him. Less talent than what Jones and the Giants have to work with. Watson comes here we're playoff calibre with him and the Defence alone I thought my point was pretty clear. I don't think Watson is a QB that will take a poor team and make them compete. There for if I were running a poor team I would not give up a ton of draft capital to get him. The 49ers, Bucs and Saints are all teams were I would pursue him (assuming my QB retired). The Jets and Jags are examples of teams where I would not pursue him.
He simply does not WOW me. I think he is good, not great.
I think a lot of the problem with the Texans is him. IMO: He plays like back ally football. He is the best Athlete on the field and he plays like that. This is the difference I see between him and Maholmes. The KC QB allow the other 10 players to be problem for the DC. Watson doesn't . You do not even have to stop Warson to beat him . Just slow him down, just a bit. He is the only guy you have to game plan against. Because he dominates the offence. The augment can be made he has no defense, weapons......... When he did he put up big numbers ,as was the case this year and the results were 1 playoff win. IMO: there are 2 playbooks for him . The play that is called. And the play he executes.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 11, 2021 8:18:05 GMT -5
Unfortunately, in today's NFL, being a "Good" QB is enough to warrant multi million $$ contracts. Kirk Cousins is a prime example, good QB, but not great & he got paid. Jimmy G in SF is another. None has won anything, but is paid as if they did. Only a handful of great QBs in the game today, the vast majority are good, decent, mediocre or flat out stink. Heck, some get paid from home! Spot on. Those are actually two really good examples to compare him to.
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jay051
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Post by jay051 on Jan 11, 2021 8:47:34 GMT -5
Unfortunately, in today's NFL, being a "Good" QB is enough to warrant multi million $$ contracts. Kirk Cousins is a prime example, good QB, but not great & he got paid. Jimmy G in SF is another. None has won anything, but is paid as if they did. Only a handful of great QBs in the game today, the vast majority are good, decent, mediocre or flat out stink. Heck, some get paid from home! Spot on. Those are actually two really good examples to compare him to. Nah. He's better than Cousins and Jimmy Jesus. He's right below the Mahomes, Rodgers, and Wilson's of the world. The only thing that we are in agreement on is breaking the bank to get him. Give him the personnel Cousins and Jimmy Jesus has and he instantly makes them a contender and who knows might have a ring by now. Watson is a very good quarterback who will continue to get better.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 11, 2021 9:02:21 GMT -5
Nah. He's better than Cousins and Jimmy Jesus. He's right below the Mahomes, Rodgers, and Wilson's of the world. The only thing that we are in agreement on is breaking the bank to get him. Give him the personnel Cousins and Jimmy Jesus has and he instantly makes them a contender and who knows might have a ring by now. Watson is a very good quarterback who will continue to get better. I don't think he is better (right now) than Cousins was at his best. Their numbers are actually extremely close and the eye test looks the same to me. Neither scares me. Yes Watson MIGHT get better, but the same could be said for Pro Bowl 2016 Kirk Cousins. Watson wouldn't be the first player to look good and never take the next step.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 11, 2021 9:32:24 GMT -5
it could happen but I would be amazed if anybody in the Texans organization would be dumb enough to let Watson go, the people here in Houston would be pissed if that happened...
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Jan 12, 2021 14:32:10 GMT -5
There aren’t many NFL teams that want QBs that insist on being involved in choosing a GM and Head Coach.......no matter how good they may be.
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Post by trueblueatnyc on Jan 12, 2021 14:45:45 GMT -5
Nah. He's better than Cousins and Jimmy Jesus. He's right below the Mahomes, Rodgers, and Wilson's of the world. The only thing that we are in agreement on is breaking the bank to get him. Give him the personnel Cousins and Jimmy Jesus has and he instantly makes them a contender and who knows might have a ring by now. Watson is a very good quarterback who will continue to get better. I don't think he is better (right now) than Cousins was at his best. Their numbers are actually extremely close and the eye test looks the same to me. Neither scares me. Yes Watson MIGHT get better, but the same could be said for Pro Bowl 2016 Kirk Cousins. Watson wouldn't be the first player to look good and never take the next step. Not sure how their numbers can be extremely close when Watson is a running threat QB and Cousins is not. Even if you say they are comparable as passers (I think Watson is better), the fact that Watson has that added running dimension that Cousins does not puts him above Cousins. Nevermind that Cousins has been in the league significantly longer than Watson has, so Watson certainly has more room to further improve.
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Post by IrishMike on Jan 12, 2021 15:01:00 GMT -5
Not sure how their numbers can be extremely close when Watson is a running threat QB and Cousins is not. Even if you say they are comparable as passers (I think Watson is better), the fact that Watson has that added running dimension that Cousins does not puts him above Cousins. Nevermind that Cousins has been in the league significantly longer than Watson has, so Watson certainly has more room to further improve. Fair enough, points for Watson for the running aspect of his game. The thing with "more room to improve" is that 2016 the same thing was said about Cousins. That mentality lead to him getting a huge contract. He is not worth it. He is not the QB that will lift your bad team and take them to the next level. That is how I personally feel about Watson. Now he could prove me wrong one day, but as of this moment in time we are waiting for that further improvement.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 12, 2021 16:33:56 GMT -5
Yeah, no. Both have 4 wins this year. Sure as heck wasn't inability from Watson that Houston was floundering. Watson relative to Jones: - 1,880 more yards. Watson led the NFL in Yards - Watson had 2.3 more YPA than Jones. Substantial, but again, Watson led the NFL in this regard - 22 more TDs. Though, TD's were... lets say, not a strength for Jones. - 7 less turnoversWatson did this with talent that was similar to what Jones had supporting him, he lost a top 2 WR in the NFL and still put up the best numbers of his career. A first and Jones? Houston would laugh at the offer. I'd happily give this and next years first along with Jones for a top 5 QB. Now people complaining about the cost, what is more expensive, this transaction (2 firsts and Jones) or 'building' around Jones which is a complete crapshoot? What if one of the building blocks gets hurt? do we write off another season? some food for thought I am curious...what would you, as a Canadian, estimate it would take to get Watson? I dare say there has never been a trade like this before. if the Texans new GM ever traded Watson he would be looking for a job before he even started his new one.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 12, 2021 17:15:20 GMT -5
I don't think he is better (right now) than Cousins was at his best. Their numbers are actually extremely close and the eye test looks the same to me. Neither scares me. Yes Watson MIGHT get better, but the same could be said for Pro Bowl 2016 Kirk Cousins. Watson wouldn't be the first player to look good and never take the next step. Not sure how their numbers can be extremely close when Watson is a running threat QB and Cousins is not. Even if you say they are comparable as passers (I think Watson is better), the fact that Watson has that added running dimension that Cousins does not puts him above Cousins. Nevermind that Cousins has been in the league significantly longer than Watson has, so Watson certainly has more room to further improve. Watson was superior to Cousins by year 3 in every way
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 12, 2021 17:16:28 GMT -5
Early in this thread I said three 1sts and three 2nds...Watson is a monster, and some team would part with that kind of exchange, in my opinion. Indy would do it in a heartbeat. Their team is pretty much set for the next 3 years I think they are in a decent place for now cap space wise,though Nelson,Smith and Lennard are needing contracts soon
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Jan 13, 2021 10:46:16 GMT -5
Now Andre Johnson is getting involved...what a train wreck. I'm trading Watson if I'm Caserio. He's undermined the front office and ownership, he needs to go.
"If I'm @deshaunwatson I will stand my ground," Johnson wrote on Twitter. "The Texans organization is known for wasting players careers. Since Jack Easterby has walk into the building nothing good has happened in/for the organization and for some reason someone can't seem to see what's going on. Pathetic!!!"
The Texans announced last month that Johnson, the team's all-time leading receiver, would serve as an advisor on team's search for a new GM and head coach."
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Post by JoeyCush on Jan 13, 2021 11:03:49 GMT -5
Now Andre Johnson is getting involved...what a train wreck. I'm trading Watson if I'm Caserio. He's undermined the front office and ownership, he needs to go. "If I'm @deshaunwatson I will stand my ground," Johnson wrote on Twitter. "The Texans organization is known for wasting players careers. Since Jack Easterby has walk into the building nothing good has happened in/for the organization and for some reason someone can't seem to see what's going on. Pathetic!!!" The Texans announced last month that Johnson, the team's all-time leading receiver, would serve as an advisor on team's search for a new GM and head coach." I know this might come off ignorant because when Bob McNair said "can't have the inmates running the prison" was in really poor taste and just something you dont say, but I kind of feel like a situation like this is what he was alluding to. Idk who this guy Jack Easterby is but he was there when Watson agreed to the 177M extension in September.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 13, 2021 11:11:34 GMT -5
With so many top 10 picks and no playoff wins since 2011/12 it would be pathetic for the 6-10 Giants to give up a boat load of picks and cap for a QB IMO. The team has little talent as is, little cap space and needs to somehow resign both Defensive linemen, still has no weapons, etc.
Jones is the QB or you draft one as i see it.
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Post by Kruunch on Jan 13, 2021 11:13:15 GMT -5
I am curious...what would you, as a Canadian, estimate it would take to get Watson? I dare say there has never been a trade like this before. if the Texans new GM ever traded Watson he would be looking for a job before he even started his new one. A player of Watsons stature would only be traded by the approval of the owner.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 28, 2021 11:36:30 GMT -5
So much for team leverage.
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