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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2021 13:23:22 GMT -5
He absolutely could be. However, this team looks to be treating this as a trailer situation. We've spent first round picks the past 3 years on HB, LT, QB. Not to mention a high 2nd on a guard. We're still looking to add a WR/TE etc. This screams trailer. Where im not convinced is if what if we have injuries? are we expecting not to win games? i hate that Barkley drafted prior to Jones. Since Jones was drafted the NYGs drafted a LT in round 1. How does that "scream" Trailer?
All QBs need weapons and some need more than others. Jones may never be a bonafide NFL franchise QB and Watson is already. I understand that fact. Because despite a #2 overall RB, a #4 OT, a #23 TE (granted, not perfoming) we're still looking to draft a WR/TE at #11 this year while adding another WR/OT in FA. Thats huge investment in the offence! We ranked #31 this past year with 17.5 ppg. That doesn't reflect the investment we have made in the past 4-5 years on the offensive side
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Post by GameTime on Feb 1, 2021 13:34:15 GMT -5
how is that Jones' fault?
Does he not hit Engram in the hands when Engram drops or deflects the ball to the other team?
Like I said since drafting Jones they have only gone LT in round 1 and draft no WRs last year and only one in 2019.
Your trailer argument is unfounded in regards to Jones as far as the draft goes.
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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2021 13:43:22 GMT -5
how is that Jones' fault? Does he not hit Engram in the hands when Engram drops or deflects the ball to the other team? Like I said since drafting Jones they have only gone LT in round 1 and draft no WRs last year and only one in 2019. Your trailer argument is unfounded in regards to Jones as far as the draft goes. OK. Engram dropping balls this year doesn't explain why DJ had 11 TDs. Thats putrid. Jones is a trailer, he did a great job this year of showing he needs help. A lot of help. Lets see how he does next year
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Post by GameTime on Feb 1, 2021 13:46:31 GMT -5
how is that Jones' fault? Does he not hit Engram in the hands when Engram drops or deflects the ball to the other team? Like I said since drafting Jones they have only gone LT in round 1 and draft no WRs last year and only one in 2019. Your trailer argument is unfounded in regards to Jones as far as the draft goes. OK. Engram dropping balls this year doesn't explain why DJ had 11 TDs. Thats putrid. Jones is a trailer, he did a grab job this year of showing he needs help. A lot of help. Lets see how he does next year never said he had a great year and was disappointed that he didnt take any steps forward. I referenced the drafts you were talking about in reference to Jones being a "trailer". Bottom line is Watson is established and Jones is not. How much top notch help Jones will ultimately need remains to be seen as well.
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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2021 13:48:12 GMT -5
OK. Engram dropping balls this year doesn't explain why DJ had 11 TDs. Thats putrid. Jones is a trailer, he did a grab job this year of showing he needs help. A lot of help. Lets see how he does next year never said he had a great year and was disappointed that he didnt take any steps forward. I referenced the drafts you were talking about in reference to Jones being a "trailer". Bottom line is Watson is established and Jones is not. How much top notch help Jones will ultimately need remains to be seen as well. And its this establishment as a top 5 QB while being 25 years old is why I would pull the trigger on just about any deal. Its a priceless luxury to have that from your QB position
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 1, 2021 13:49:23 GMT -5
Dan Orlovsky has some bullish advice for Dave Gettleman. With numerous organizations expected to throw their hats in the ring for the Deshaun Watson sweepstakes, Orlovsky says the Giants should be the team to go all-in. “If I was Dave Gettleman of the New York Giants, I would take Daniel Jones, I would take Saquon Barkley and I would take three first-round picks, and I would call Houston and not allow them to get off the phone with me,” the retired Lions quarterback turned NFL analyst said on ESPN’s “Get Up” on Friday. The disgruntled Watson has caused quite the stir of late amid fraying internal relations with the Texans. He formally requested a trade on Thursday after months of frustration with the team’s front office over the decision to trade receiver DeAndre Hopkins, former head coach Bill O’Brien’s ineptitude and his lack of input in the hiring of incoming general manager Nick Caserio and head coach David Culley. Watson, 25, was selected No. 12 overall out of Clemson by the Texans in 2017. He has completed 67.8 percent of his passes for 14,539 yards, 104 touchdowns and 36 interceptions through 54 regular season games and would be a coveted asset to many teams across the league. “As a general manager in this moment, if you ever were going to take a swing, this is the swing to take,” Orlovsky said. “As a general manager, the last thing you want to do is look back with regret that we didn’t try hard enough, that we didn’t throw in one extra first-rounder that’s the type of player and person that you’re going to get with Deshaun Watson.” The Texans exercised Watson’s fifth-year option and granted him a four-year, $177.5 million extension with a no-trade clause ahead of the 2020 NFL season which binds him to Houston until 2025. He carries a cap hit of $15.94 million in 2021 with an astronomical $67.14 million dead cap hit according to Spotrac. On Friday, the Texans expressed their unwavering interest in keeping Watson in Houston in spite of the surrounding chaos. “Organizationally, we want to reiterate our commitment to Deshaun Watson,” Caserio said. “We have zero interest in trading the player.” “He is a Houston Texan,” Culley said in his first press conference as head coach. “I want him to be a Houston Texan. The reason I’m in this position today is because I know he’s going to be a Houston Texan.” Orlovsky acknowledges that a team may have to think outside the box to pry Watson away from the Texans, especially in light of the competition from teams in the market for a new signal-caller. The Falcons, Bears, Cowboys, Lions, Saints, Eagles, 49ers, Washington, Broncos, Texans, Colts, Jaguars, Patriots, Jets and Steelers all have question marks at quarterback heading into the 2021 offseason. “What I’m watching is, who as a general manager is going to get creative? How are they going to go get one of the best players in the NFL,” Orlovsky added. “This is the time when you can make your career as a general manager.” The hypothetical scenario laid out would mean moving on from Barkley and Jones, who were the Giants’ first-round picks in back-to-back years. Those two, plus additional draft capital, would be a price many around the league don’t believe the Giants would be willing to pay. Barkley, 23, has missed 17 games since joining the team in 2018 as the No. 2 overall pick. He has 2,344 career rushing yards for 17 touchdowns, as well as 149 catches for 1,219 receiving yards and six receiving touchdowns. Jones, also 23, has completed 62.2 percent of his passes for 5,970 yards, 35 touchdowns and 22 interceptions in 27 appearances across two seasons. nypost.com/2021/01/29/dan-orlovsky-giants-should-go-all-in-on-deshaun-watson-trade/I've always been appropriately reticent when someone would come into my office to convince me that we needed to really "get creative" in order to land a client, close a deal etc...more often than not by the time they left, they were frustrated that we were not gong to get creative enough and I was at once both concerned about his/her intelligence while relieved that we would not be doing something monumentally stupid. Runner up is sharpening the pencil...."we really need to sharpen our pencil if we're going to win this one!" Apparently sharp pencils is code for money losing decision in my business.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 1, 2021 13:56:54 GMT -5
never said he had a great year and was disappointed that he didnt take any steps forward. I referenced the drafts you were talking about in reference to Jones being a "trailer". Bottom line is Watson is established and Jones is not. How much top notch help Jones will ultimately need remains to be seen as well. And its this establishment as a top 5 QB while being 25 years old is why I would pull the trigger on just about any deal. Its a priceless luxury to have that from your QB position yeah....as much as I would dig seeing a home grown drafted QB become the franchise he was intended to be getting Watson would be great.
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 1, 2021 13:59:13 GMT -5
DJ - trailer Watson - truck I would 100% do this trade. Its not like Dave Gettlemens first round picks leave much to be desired. Get a sure thing top 5 QB in Watson that will be here for 10+ years? all day everyday The question is would the Giants FO consider this? the answer is NO. That would admit failure's in 2018 & 2019. We could never do that. So no point in discussing I like the trucks and trailers description. How many QBs do they think are trucks? And which ones are they?
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Post by thetruth on Feb 1, 2021 14:27:33 GMT -5
DJ - trailer Watson - truck I would 100% do this trade. Its not like Dave Gettlemens first round picks leave much to be desired. Get a sure thing top 5 QB in Watson that will be here for 10+ years? all day everyday The question is would the Giants FO consider this? the answer is NO. That would admit failure's in 2018 & 2019. We could never do that. So no point in discussing I like the trucks and trailers description. How many QBs do they think are trucks? And which ones are they? Oh I like this, in my opinion? Right now, just 5: - Russell Wilson - Aaron Rodgers - Pat Mahomes - D Watson - Tom Brady Potentially trucks one day, but obv still trailers: - Joe Burrow - Justin Herbert
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Post by jaymas on Feb 1, 2021 14:42:42 GMT -5
Truck/trailer is stupid. That is all.
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 1, 2021 14:50:11 GMT -5
I like the trucks and trailers description. How many QBs do they think are trucks? And which ones are they? Oh I like this, in my opinion? Right now, just 5: - Russell Wilson - Aaron Rodgers - Pat Mahomes - D Watson - Tom Brady Potentially trucks one day, but obv still trailers: - Joe Burrow - Justin Herbert I don't know this guy but you and I seem aligned on this summary of NFL QBs. For the record, I agree with your list. It will take years before we can make a judgment on Burrow, Herbert, Allen etc..
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 1, 2021 14:53:50 GMT -5
Truck/trailer is stupid. That is all. Perhaps. But I think it's a much more accurate view of NFL QBs than anything the majority of the football media is selling.
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DJones19
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Post by DJones19 on Feb 1, 2021 15:07:56 GMT -5
Truck/trailer is stupid. That is all. Agreed. The media is fixated on 1 player making all the difference on a team with 53 players. The same media that widely predicted Herbert would be a bust and Dwayne Haskins would be great. I like Daniel Jeremiah though.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 1, 2021 15:13:45 GMT -5
I like the trucks and trailers description. How many QBs do they think are trucks? And which ones are they? Oh I like this, in my opinion? Right now, just 5: - Russell Wilson - Aaron Rodgers - Pat Mahomes - D Watson - Tom Brady Potentially trucks one day, but obv still trailers: - Joe Burrow - Justin Herbert good list but those "trucks" have great talent around them as well.
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Post by GameTime on Feb 1, 2021 15:18:59 GMT -5
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 1, 2021 15:25:07 GMT -5
Oh I like this, in my opinion? Right now, just 5: - Russell Wilson - Aaron Rodgers - Pat Mahomes - D Watson - Tom Brady Potentially trucks one day, but obv still trailers: - Joe Burrow - Justin Herbert good list but those "trucks" have great talent around them as well. True. But I do believe there is a population of QBs that can move the needle on wins each year. If any kind of magical QB exists, those guys (about 10% of all starting QBs) would be called the trucks. Of course the media would also have you believe these guys deliver several wins and even playoff appearances all by themselves, but it's really more like a game or two a season.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Feb 1, 2021 22:28:39 GMT -5
a truck for the offence, which is where he plays. He needs a lot less help than a Daniel Jones, as evidenced by this past year. This is very valuable, how many more first round picks do we need on offence to help Jones perform at an average NFL level? elite? Defensive help is needed. However, Houston averaged 24 ppg and the Giants defence gave up 22 ppg. I think we'd be okay. The Houston team talent is putrid and their OL is worse than the Giants. cant compare the two fairly yet. At this moment in time Jones is clearly not the QB Watson is stats wise and "truck" wise. Maybe in threes years he will be that truck. GT I agree we don't make the trade. I don't think Jones will ever be anywhere near as good as Watson. But we don't make this trade, period. By not making this trade were going to get to keep 2 1st and 2 2nd at the least. That's 4 starters or it's 2-3 starters plus Saquon and Jones. This makes us so much stronger than a great QB with less to work with.
Watson didn't have help in Houston and as great an effort as he put forth and even over performed he failed there. The same scenario would be taking place all over again here. We would be flailing away without the draft picks to fix it.
We keep adding young pieces especially another top pick this year and the improvement will come. We have just as good a chance to succeed with Jones in the next 3 years as we would with Watson and less top players that are going to be added these next 2 years.
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Post by piddy283 on Feb 2, 2021 7:39:02 GMT -5
DJ - trailer Watson - truck I would 100% do this trade. Its not like Dave Gettlemens first round picks leave much to be desired. Get a sure thing top 5 QB in Watson that will be here for 10+ years? all day everyday The question is would the Giants FO consider this? the answer is NO. That would admit failure's in 2018 & 2019. We could never do that. So no point in discussing This tweet is something I've been saying for nearly 10 years. Teams need to stop paying their QB's like the #1 QB every time their contract comes up. If they're a middle of the pack QB, pay them accordingly or let them walk. There are too many QB's coming out of college these days, and there are too many rules catering to QB's these days, to overpay for one.
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 2, 2021 10:14:33 GMT -5
wouldn't a lot more NFL QBs succeed if they had a better supporting cast around them, its the ones who can make things happen with their own talent that sets them above the ordinary..
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Post by GameTime on Feb 2, 2021 10:44:38 GMT -5
wouldn't a lot more NFL QBs succeed if they had a better supporting cast around them, its the ones who can make things happen with their own talent that sets them above the ordinary.. while this is true look at who Brady and Mahomes have around them. Very good to best in the league talent and far from ordinary.
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giantsalmon
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Post by giantsalmon on Feb 2, 2021 14:43:30 GMT -5
wouldn't a lot more NFL QBs succeed if they had a better supporting cast around them, its the ones who can make things happen with their own talent that sets them above the ordinary.. while this is true look at who Brady and Mahomes have around them. Very good to best in the league talent and far from ordinary. And the winner Sunday will most likely be the team whose defense makes more plays/creates more turnovers. Lots of playmakers on both Ds and its Bowles VS Spags
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Post by Kase1 on Feb 2, 2021 15:05:35 GMT -5
DJ - trailer Watson - truck I would 100% do this trade. Its not like Dave Gettlemens first round picks leave much to be desired. Get a sure thing top 5 QB in Watson that will be here for 10+ years? all day everyday The question is would the Giants FO consider this? the answer is NO. That would admit failure's in 2018 & 2019. We could never do that. So no point in discussing This tweet is something I've been saying for nearly 10 years. Teams need to stop paying their QB's like the #1 QB every time their contract comes up. If they're a middle of the pack QB, pay them accordingly or let them walk. There are too many QB's coming out of college these days, and there are too many rules catering to QB's these days, to overpay for one. Its almost like teams would rather give an average QB a huge deal than admit they made a mistake and drafted the wrong QB. If its not working dont force it, scrap it and start a new
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Post by imgrate on Feb 2, 2021 15:26:00 GMT -5
Barkley drafted prior to Jones. Since Jones was drafted the NYGs drafted a LT in round 1. How does that "scream" Trailer?
All QBs need weapons and some need more than others. Jones may never be a bonafide NFL franchise QB and Watson is already. I understand that fact. Because despite a #2 overall RB, a #4 OT, a #23 TE (granted, not perfoming) we're still looking to draft a WR/TE at #11 this year while adding another WR/OT in FA. Thats huge investment in the offence! We ranked #31 this past year with 17.5 ppg. That doesn't reflect the investment we have made in the past 4-5 years on the offensive side Can't really gauge the numbers you're throwing out. They might sound like alot, but how does our investment in offense compare to other teams in that same timespan?
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mikethenygfan
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Post by mikethenygfan on Feb 2, 2021 16:46:18 GMT -5
DJ - trailer Watson - truck I would 100% do this trade. Its not like Dave Gettlemens first round picks leave much to be desired. Get a sure thing top 5 QB in Watson that will be here for 10+ years? all day everyday The question is would the Giants FO consider this? the answer is NO. That would admit failure's in 2018 & 2019. We could never do that. So no point in discussing Watson is certainly an established top QB already and Jones is not. But the Texans were 4-12 so even a "truck" needs help to win. Its a total team game. we would have been in the playoffs this year with watson as our qb. Watson would change this franchise around idc what we have to give up. Sign and trade tomlinson and peppers and 2 to 3 first round picks and jones.
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mikethenygfan
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Post by mikethenygfan on Feb 2, 2021 16:47:47 GMT -5
how is that Jones' fault? Does he not hit Engram in the hands when Engram drops or deflects the ball to the other team? Like I said since drafting Jones they have only gone LT in round 1 and draft no WRs last year and only one in 2019. Your trailer argument is unfounded in regards to Jones as far as the draft goes. OK. Engram dropping balls this year doesn't explain why DJ had 11 TDs. Thats putrid. Jones is a trailer, he did a great job this year of showing he needs help. A lot of help. Lets see how he does next year jones is a trailer with flat tires at this point. He turns the ball over more then he scores.
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 2, 2021 16:50:28 GMT -5
And its this establishment as a top 5 QB while being 25 years old is why I would pull the trigger on just about any deal. Its a priceless luxury to have that from your QB position yeah....as much as I would dig seeing a home grown drafted QB become the franchise he was intended to be getting Watson would be great. I agree, having Watson would be great but I just think his price would strangle this team for years to come...
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Post by thetruth on Feb 2, 2021 17:00:40 GMT -5
yeah....as much as I would dig seeing a home grown drafted QB become the franchise he was intended to be getting Watson would be great. I agree, having Watson would be great but I just think his price would strangle this team for years to come... I get this line of thinking but you'd have to consider we have a top 5 QB for 10+ years. Heck losing Deandre Hopkins Houston increased/maintained their PPG from 23.9 to 24.0 this past season. Daniel Jones's offence scored 17.5 ppg for perspective, almost 1 TD more per game His offence wasn't very talented and their OL is worse than the Giants. He lead the league in yards. Watson would cover up a lot of holes we dont need to spend multiple first round picks on to.... potentially have a good offence with Jones. I think investing the next 2-3 years building around Jones and that not working will cost the team more in the long run. You have some certainty with Watson, also happens to play the most important position in sports
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Post by bluebuddha on Feb 2, 2021 17:02:18 GMT -5
yeah....as much as I would dig seeing a home grown drafted QB become the franchise he was intended to be getting Watson would be great. I agree, having Watson would be great but I just think his price would strangle this team for years to come... Any Top qb contract will strangle teams. If you could find plug and play qbs every 4 years it would be optimum. If DJ plays lights out this year and next his contract will be bigger than Deshaun's especially considering Allen will get a contract a year before DJ. Dak is still out there too.
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Post by thetruth on Feb 2, 2021 17:03:46 GMT -5
OK. Engram dropping balls this year doesn't explain why DJ had 11 TDs. Thats putrid. Jones is a trailer, he did a great job this year of showing he needs help. A lot of help. Lets see how he does next year jones is a trailer with flat tires at this point. He turns the ball over more then he scores. 39 turnovers to 38 TDs. Correct. Can he improve with weapons, a OL and a great TE? yes. I mean, we should expect that. What is this accomplishing? It's very difficult to build a great OL where you're as good as your weakest link, QB's have to deal with inconsistent play here and show some pocket awareness. Injuries happen at the skill positions and just banking on close to perfection for these position groups around Jones isn't practical. Hoping you dont miss on any acquisitions is also a very a tough sell and not very likely. At least to me.
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Post by snyder55 on Feb 2, 2021 17:08:11 GMT -5
at this point in his pro career Jones is looking like a pretty good college QB who simply can't make the leap up into the pro level, but as I have said Baker Mayfield did it after looking like a flop, so there is hope, isn't there?
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