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Post by allnygin on Feb 8, 2021 11:50:29 GMT -5
I guess you can say we kinda have a model in place for that.. with peart and lemuiex. Eventually they'll become full fledge starters, but they're not bad in a pinch. Problem is they were more like starters last season. Either way, Luemuiex or Hernadez is not a bad backup piece at G and Peart was serviceable even in his first year at tackle. As you said, you just have to constantly have to draft lineman.. Regardless, most teams don't even have a good offensive line. It's getting harder and harder to find lineman that can deal with these freaks that are out on defense anymore. I think the bucs d would've given KC issues regardless. Yup, the game would've been more competitive, but the result imo would've been the same. That Bucs D played hard yesterday, they were constantly flying towards the ball, absolutely relentless. yeah, I mean don't get me wrong, not discounting what more Mahomes could've done with a legit LT there to protect him just a little bit longer, however, bucs lbers were all over the place undeneath and even if Mahomes had time that secondary wasns't letting anything past them. Bucs D was just playing hot the past couple of weeks, and brady and co were getting better also. I think in a shoot out that offense still would've scored more.. The secondary had no answers for Evans besides basically tackling him before the ball got to him every play. Would've def been a more competitive game, but honestly I think the bucs had KC's number this go around.. At any rate even in a bad game Mahomes still looked incredible.
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 8, 2021 11:52:23 GMT -5
Here's another thing we learned last night.
Everyone tells us that in today's game you must have a mobile quarterback. Well, this image shows the paths of both QB's in last night's Super Bowl. Of course, I fully expect no one needs me to tell them which QB is on the top and which is on the bottom of this image.
Red: complete. White incomplete.
Brady plays behind KCs line last night and he is intensive care right now at Tampa University Hospital contemplating retirement
No doubt. We know first hand what it looks like to have a pocket passer and a terrible line.
But what I take away from yesterday's game is basically what you touched on. It takes a great team effort by everyone, and good luck as well.
Brady is obviously the GOAT but his team rose to the occasion as well.
On the flip side look at Spags. Was Spags a genius DC, or a good one who benefited from having Stray, Osi, and Tuck on his DL?
Football is the ultimate team game, it's never about one guy or one side of the ball. A whole lot has to go right to win that trophy.
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Post by Rangers13 on Feb 8, 2021 11:52:50 GMT -5
Had the Bucs lost to the Packers would we have read about how the Bucs lost so many CBs or how great Rodgers was?
Injuries are part of the game
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Post by thetruth on Feb 8, 2021 11:52:52 GMT -5
Whenever I watch him its all effort, never gives up on a play. Future HoFer in my book. I have no idea what this has to do with what I wrote, but as far as the HOF, it’s certainly a possibility. Like I said he’s in the perfect place. Haha you speak in vast generalities. He's in the perfect place, Tom is in the perfect place. Mahomes was in perfect place last year. Of course they were, they won. To win Championships you need an EDGE threat. But you already know that. Some in this league sadly dont
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Post by thetruth on Feb 8, 2021 11:54:59 GMT -5
Here's another thing we learned last night.
Everyone tells us that in today's game you must have a mobile quarterback. Well, this image shows the paths of both QB's in last night's Super Bowl. Of course, I fully expect no one needs me to tell them which QB is on the top and which is on the bottom of this image.
Red: complete. White incomplete.
A lot of Mahomes whites should have red if the ball hadn't beat up his receivers by hitting them in the face/chest. I think most games look like this for both players, exception being more red for Mahomes.
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Post by Fletch842 on Feb 8, 2021 12:13:22 GMT -5
to be fair, he was not that impactful the first few years. Wait, what? We’re discussing JPP here right? Are we talking about his first few years with us? Because he had 16.5 sacks his 2nd season. Or his first few years in Tampa? His first season with them he had 12.5 sacks. I would take that non impactful play every season. And twice on Sundays. his first few in Tampa. And the 12.5 sacks are really nice, but it didn't help them much, and he missed a large part of year 2. He was terrific this year, and got better as the year went along, no doubt.
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Post by jaymas on Feb 8, 2021 12:26:39 GMT -5
wasnt that upset when he was sent to Tampa. Of course hindsight rewrites the story for me. to be fair, he was not that impactful the first few years. In Tampa? He's had the three most consistent years of his career. Just on the sacks front, he had 12.5 in year one, had 8.5 in only 10 games in year two, and then this year he played very well with 9.5. And that's just sacks, he's played well the entire time in Tampa.
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 8, 2021 12:27:58 GMT -5
Here's another thing we learned last night.
Everyone tells us that in today's game you must have a mobile quarterback. Well, this image shows the paths of both QB's in last night's Super Bowl. Of course, I fully expect no one needs me to tell them which QB is on the top and which is on the bottom of this image.
Red: complete. White incomplete.
A lot of Mahomes whites should have red if the ball hadn't beat up his receivers by hitting them in the face/chest. I think most games look like this for both players, exception being more red for Mahomes.
Good point. The Chiefs receivers didn't make the big catches yesterday. The Chiefs were also undisciplined yesterday with their bad penalties. Although it looked close to me, going offsides on the punt was unforgivable.
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Post by jaymas on Feb 8, 2021 12:28:42 GMT -5
The Bucs put together the most dominant defense performance in the SB since Seattle against Denver.
But I compare it more to what the Giants did to Brady in 07-08 because that Seahawks defense was an all time one, even if that Denver offense was also an all time one.
The Bucs completely shutdown the best offense in the NFL over the last three years, and while they were solid to very good all year, became elite.
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 8, 2021 12:37:25 GMT -5
The Bucs put together the most dominant defense performance in the SB since Seattle against Denver. But I compare it more to what the Giants did to Brady in 07-08 because that Seahawks defense was an all time one, even if that Denver offense was also an all time one. The Bucs completely shutdown the best offense in the NFL over the last three years, and while they were solid to very good all year, became elite. Not looking to take away anything from the Bucs but KC losing both tackles factored into this game.
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Post by McCherry on Feb 8, 2021 12:43:45 GMT -5
I think fans are way over analyzing the Chiefs offensive line. This is the same defense that sacked Aaron Rodgers 5x the previous game. And their line is arguably the best unit in the league. Give credit where credit is due. That defense came to play.. Mahomes never had a clean pocket, Hill was blanketed all game long, and Lavonte David did a spectacular job locking up Kelce. Todd Bowles deserves a hell of a lot of credit for his game plan. He pretty much said, you aren’t beating us with Hill or Kelce.. Oh, JPP had a great game. To anyone who forgot. We gave him away for BJ Hill and Kyle Lauletta. Bucs got an elite edge rusher, we got a rotational player in Hill and a quarterback who’s on the practice squad in Cleveland. Yeah, we won in that deal.. Defense wins championships. Never more true than last night.
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Post by Sarcasman on Feb 8, 2021 12:45:53 GMT -5
I have no idea what this has to do with what I wrote, but as far as the HOF, it’s certainly a possibility. Like I said he’s in the perfect place. Haha you speak in vast generalities. He's in the perfect place, Tom is in the perfect place. Mahomes was in perfect place last year. Of course they were, they won. To win Championships you need an EDGE threat. But you already know that. Some in this league sadly dont Anything more specific becomes a semantical argument.
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Post by jaymas on Feb 8, 2021 12:53:17 GMT -5
The Bucs put together the most dominant defense performance in the SB since Seattle against Denver. But I compare it more to what the Giants did to Brady in 07-08 because that Seahawks defense was an all time one, even if that Denver offense was also an all time one. The Bucs completely shutdown the best offense in the NFL over the last three years, and while they were solid to very good all year, became elite. Not looking to take away anything from the Bucs but KC losing both tackles factored into this game.
I think this is probably true as well, but that at most will be a footnote in NFL history for this one. I just applauded the game plan, which played out exactly as they must have imagined. With the Bucs offense also a threat to always put up points, Andy Reid (who doesn't really like running the ball anyway) certainly wasn't going to try and run the ball when down by two scores, even though that two deep look was begging for it. Bucs teed off on the heavily skewed passing gameplan of the Chiefs and did it with the buffer the offense gave them. It was just so well done.
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Post by Kruunch on Feb 8, 2021 12:55:54 GMT -5
Wait, what? We’re discussing JPP here right? Are we talking about his first few years with us? Because he had 16.5 sacks his 2nd season. Or his first few years in Tampa? His first season with them he had 12.5 sacks. I would take that non impactful play every season. And twice on Sundays. his first few in Tampa. And the 12.5 sacks are really nice, but it didn't help them much, and he missed a large part of year 2. He was terrific this year, and got better as the year went along, no doubt. If we’re discussing a player who has played very well and it did nothing for the team overall that sounds like our own Leonard Williams. So is it safe to say you feel the exact same way for Williams as you did JPP?
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Post by Nick6475 on Feb 8, 2021 13:00:24 GMT -5
All of the Bucs points scored yesterday were by players who were not on their roster the year before.
Brady Gronk Brown Fournette Succop
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Post by Delicreep on Feb 8, 2021 13:05:23 GMT -5
I think fans are way over analyzing the Chiefs offensive line. This is the same defense that sacked Aaron Rodgers 5x the previous game. And their line is arguably the best unit in the league. Give credit where credit is due. That defense came to play.. Mahomes never had a clean pocket, Hill was blanketed all game long, and Lavonte David did a spectacular job locking up Kelce. Todd Bowles deserves a hell of a lot of credit for his game plan. He pretty much said, you aren’t beating us with Hill or Kelce.. Oh, JPP had a great game. To anyone who forgot. We gave him away for BJ Hill and Kyle Lauletta. Bucs got an elite edge rusher, we got a rotational player in Hill and a quarterback who’s on the practice squad in Cleveland. Yeah, we won in that deal.. Defense wins championships. Never more true than last night. Chiefs scored 9 points...that's the story, right? If you asked a 100 fans before the game if the Chiefs would only score 9 points, 100 would have said you were crazy.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 8, 2021 13:21:18 GMT -5
The Bucs put together the most dominant defense performance in the SB since Seattle against Denver. But I compare it more to what the Giants did to Brady in 07-08 because that Seahawks defense was an all time one, even if that Denver offense was also an all time one. The Bucs completely shutdown the best offense in the NFL over the last three years, and while they were solid to very good all year, became elite. Not looking to take away anything from the Bucs but KC losing both tackles factored into this game.
Don't harsh on people's virtue signaling narrative now with facts (not the person who you just responded to with this this but others)
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 8, 2021 13:22:24 GMT -5
Defense wins championships. Never more true than last night. Chiefs scored 9 points...that's the story, right? If you asked a 100 fans before the game if the Chiefs would only score 9 points, 100 would have said you were crazy. And every one od us downplayed having Remmers and a practice squad OT started bigtime on how that would effect the game
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Post by Roosevelt on Feb 8, 2021 13:31:09 GMT -5
Not looking to take away anything from the Bucs but KC losing both tackles factored into this game.
Don't harsh on people's virtue signaling narrative now with facts (not the person who you just responded to with this this but others)
As someone who loves great defense, and enjoy watching the Bucs in the playoffs; I don't believe there's anyone that expected what we say yesterday. That was a dream game for the Bucs while everything seemed to go wrong for the Cheifs. And I'm not complaining because I wanted the Bucs to win. Turns out there was 4 former Giants playing for the Bucs yesterday.
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Post by McCherry on Feb 8, 2021 13:49:20 GMT -5
Don't harsh on people's virtue signaling narrative now with facts (not the person who you just responded to with this this but others)
As someone who loves great defense, and enjoy watching the Bucs in the playoffs; I don't believe there's anyone that expected what we say yesterday. That was a dream game for the Bucs while everything seemed to go wrong for the Cheifs. And I'm not complaining because I wanted the Bucs to win. Turns out there was 4 former Giants playing for the Bucs yesterday.
The Chiefs receivers couldn't get open. And as well as the Bucs played defense, the Chiefs couldn't and put the Bucs in position to score with killer penalties. Turns the game around when an INT gets called back and the opponent scores a few plays later. The Bucs scored quickly then were up 21-6 by halftime. You didn't feel the Chiefs ever really had a chance after that. You can't expect to constantly fall behind in big games and hope for miracle comebacks. Their magic finally ran out.
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Post by lt56 on Feb 8, 2021 13:56:35 GMT -5
Bucs Defense is just loaded with the best Linebaker Duo in the NFL in David and White who matched up with Kelce perfectly because both can run and cover. JPP, Barrett very Disruptive edge rushers who took advantage of KC Line without Eric Fisher and others who was out with injuries
As for our Line: Thomas, Lemiuex, Gates, Zeitler, Peart we have our Offensive Line going forward we don't need to draft another Lineman with the 11th Pick or anything like that. Maybe add developmental guys later in the draft as well as undrafed Free Agents but we have other holes to fill.
We need Edge Rushers on Defense we have to get to the QB! Also need another CB on the other side of Bradberry
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 8, 2021 14:00:04 GMT -5
Bucs Defense is just loaded with the best Linebaker Duo in the NFL in David and White who matched up with Kelce perfectly because both can run and cover. JPP, Barrett very Disruptive edge rushers who took advantage of KC Line without Eric Fisher and others who was out with injuries As for our Line: Thomas, Lemiuex, Gates, Zeitler, Peart we have our Offensive Line going forward we don't need to draft another Lineman with the 11th Pick or anything like that. Maybe add developmental guys later in the draft as well as undrafed Free Agents but we have other holes to fill. We need Edge Rushers on Defense we have to get to the QB! Also need another CB on the other side of Bradberry We had 40 sacks Bucs had 46 I'm not reaching for am edge rusher at 11 that is a high risk this year If anything get a FA to augment our D line (we can create the cap room to bring back both and have room for a Judon or someone) Weapons and O line depth in the draft BPA style
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Post by Delicreep on Feb 8, 2021 14:11:47 GMT -5
As someone who loves great defense, and enjoy watching the Bucs in the playoffs; I don't believe there's anyone that expected what we say yesterday. That was a dream game for the Bucs while everything seemed to go wrong for the Cheifs. And I'm not complaining because I wanted the Bucs to win. Turns out there was 4 former Giants playing for the Bucs yesterday.
The Chiefs receivers couldn't get open. And as well as the Bucs played defense, the Chiefs couldn't and put the Bucs in position to score with killer penalties. Turns the game around when an INT gets called back and the opponent scores a few plays later. The Bucs scored quickly then were up 21-6 by halftime. You didn't feel the Chiefs ever really had a chance after that. You can't expect to constantly fall behind in big games and hope for miracle comebacks. Their magic finally ran out. I felt like if the Chiefs could start the 2nd half with a solid drive...really a textbook Chiefs TD drive, they would have been OK.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 8, 2021 14:15:45 GMT -5
The Chiefs receivers couldn't get open. And as well as the Bucs played defense, the Chiefs couldn't and put the Bucs in position to score with killer penalties. Turns the game around when an INT gets called back and the opponent scores a few plays later. The Bucs scored quickly then were up 21-6 by halftime. You didn't feel the Chiefs ever really had a chance after that. You can't expect to constantly fall behind in big games and hope for miracle comebacks. Their magic finally ran out. I felt like if the Chiefs could start the 2nd half with a solid drive...really a textbook Chiefs TD drive, they would have been OK.  With all that space open underneath and Edwards-Hellaire averaging 7 yards a pop I was fully expecting a 7 minute drive featuring him and underneath stuff with all the backfield action of Hill .. Reid had his worst game since Philly last night
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Post by lt56 on Feb 8, 2021 14:19:01 GMT -5
Bucs Defense is just loaded with the best Linebaker Duo in the NFL in David and White who matched up with Kelce perfectly because both can run and cover. JPP, Barrett very Disruptive edge rushers who took advantage of KC Line without Eric Fisher and others who was out with injuries As for our Line: Thomas, Lemiuex, Gates, Zeitler, Peart we have our Offensive Line going forward we don't need to draft another Lineman with the 11th Pick or anything like that. Maybe add developmental guys later in the draft as well as undrafed Free Agents but we have other holes to fill. We need Edge Rushers on Defense we have to get to the QB! Also need another CB on the other side of Bradberry We had 40 sacks Bucs had 46 I'm not reaching for am edge rusher at 11 that is a high risk this year If anything get a FA to augment our D line (we can create the cap room to bring back both and have room for a Judon or someone) Weapons and O line depth in the draft BPA style Yeah we need more Weapons too I agree with that but again with Lineman you can grab another guy later in the Draft if they feel Peart is not the guy at Right Tackle or if Gates is not the Answer at Center. Unless Penei Sewel somehow drops to #11 NO I don't think we should go Offensive Line yet again in the 1st Round
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Post by McCherry on Feb 8, 2021 14:23:20 GMT -5
The Chiefs receivers couldn't get open. And as well as the Bucs played defense, the Chiefs couldn't and put the Bucs in position to score with killer penalties. Turns the game around when an INT gets called back and the opponent scores a few plays later. The Bucs scored quickly then were up 21-6 by halftime. You didn't feel the Chiefs ever really had a chance after that. You can't expect to constantly fall behind in big games and hope for miracle comebacks. Their magic finally ran out. I felt like if the Chiefs could start the 2nd half with a solid drive...really a textbook Chiefs TD drive, they would have been OK. Maybe, but I felt they needed to score before the half when they failed to convert that 3rd down.
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Post by OrangeGiant on Feb 8, 2021 14:25:45 GMT -5
I felt like if the Chiefs could start the 2nd half with a solid drive...really a textbook Chiefs TD drive, they would have been OK.  With all that space open underneath and Edwards-Hellaire averaging 7 yards a pop I was fully expecting a 7 minute drive featuring him and underneath stuff with all the backfield action of Hill .. Reid had his worst game since Philly last night I have to admit that is a mystery to me. I don't think the Chiefs ever adjusted to the constant pressure on Mahomes and ran plays to offset it. It was like they just kept trying to push the ball down field. I don't think they ran it nearly enough. It was just strange, like watching a different team. I don't see how anyone can think the injuries and shuffled OL didn't play a major role in the loss. Yes the Bucs defense played great, but the Chiefs offense, all full strength, would have scored more points. It is what it is, injuries happen and sometimes it costs you a chance to win a SB
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 8, 2021 14:29:48 GMT -5
With all that space open underneath and Edwards-Hellaire averaging 7 yards a pop I was fully expecting a 7 minute drive featuring him and underneath stuff with all the backfield action of Hill .. Reid had his worst game since Philly last night I have to admit that is a mystery to me. I don't think the Chiefs ever adjusted to the constant pressure on Mahomes and ran plays to offset it. It was like they just kept trying to push the ball down field. I don't think they ran it nearly enough. It was just strange, like watching a different team. I don't see how anyone can think the injuries and shuffled OL didn't play a major role in the loss. Yes the Bucs defense played great, but the Chiefs offense, all full strength, would have scored more points. It is what it is, injuries happen and sometimes it costs you a chance to win a SB injuries and inept coaching on that side of the ball. Same team as the one that won it last year A better defense had the same exact game plan against them last super bowl More talented backs this year
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Post by BlueReign on Feb 8, 2021 14:52:16 GMT -5
With all that space open underneath and Edwards-Hellaire averaging 7 yards a pop I was fully expecting a 7 minute drive featuring him and underneath stuff with all the backfield action of Hill .. Reid had his worst game since Philly last night I have to admit that is a mystery to me. I don't think the Chiefs ever adjusted to the constant pressure on Mahomes and ran plays to offset it. It was like they just kept trying to push the ball down field. I don't think they ran it nearly enough. It was just strange, like watching a different team. I don't see how anyone can think the injuries and shuffled OL didn't play a major role in the loss. Yes the Bucs defense played great, but the Chiefs offense, all full strength, would have scored more points. It is what it is, injuries happen and sometimes it costs you a chance to win a SB Eh, I don't know about adjusting the playbook. Draws, screens and short passes were gobbled up by those LBs so they didn't really have much of ac choice other than Mahomes making magic. As you said, I agree the biggest detriment to the Chiefs last night was the OL. It was simple: DL dominated the OL and TB could drop two safeties every play. Anyone who doesn't see that is blind.
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Post by Fletch842 on Feb 8, 2021 15:14:51 GMT -5
his first few in Tampa. And the 12.5 sacks are really nice, but it didn't help them much, and he missed a large part of year 2. He was terrific this year, and got better as the year went along, no doubt. If we’re discussing a player who has played very well and it did nothing for the team overall that sounds like our own Leonard Williams. So is it safe to say you feel the exact same way for Williams as you did JPP? situations aren't the same. When we let JPP go, he was not playing that great for us. The hand was limiting him. LW is pretty much always available. His game is a bit different than JPP as well. Also, the team situation is not in the same place, so no I don't feel exactly the same way. There certainly is a limit to what I'd be willing to pay (its much easier to determine when not my money of course... ), not like LW is the end all of end alls.
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