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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 25, 2021 8:27:23 GMT -5
I would say right now if you can get the best at any position to come out in the last 10 15 years which Sewell is for his position you get that card up there with in 5 seconds. Parsons can be the a lot like Devon white. If Smith or Chase Waddle Pittman are there you go with need and value but can't pass on a guy like Sewell. In reality most likely Sewell Smith Pittman and chase possibly will be gone and maybe even Waddle. Problem is, we need WRs more than we need LBs. 5 years ago, sure, let's get Parsons. Not in 2021 though. Parsons was not a great example your right. Even with OT this is a strong draft for tackles unless it's Sewell and there is no Edge worth that pick wouldn't wanna relive the Cedric Jones nightmare again.A trade down is possible if the play making talent isn.t there.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 25, 2021 8:29:25 GMT -5
Problem is, we need WRs more than we need LBs. 5 years ago, sure, let's get Parsons. Not in 2021 though. Parsons was not a great example your right. Even with OT this is a strong draft for tackles unless it's Sewell and there is no Edge worth that pick wouldn't wanna relive the Cedric Jones nightmare again.A trade down is possible if the play making talent isn.t there. With as many needs as we have, we cannot draft for need at 11.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 25, 2021 8:38:59 GMT -5
Parsons was not a great example your right. Even with OT this is a strong draft for tackles unless it's Sewell and there is no Edge worth that pick wouldn't wanna relive the Cedric Jones nightmare again.A trade down is possible if the play making talent isn.t there. With as many needs as we have, we cannot draft for need at 11. Inconvenient truth Linebacker isn't a major need ...especially with all the what looks to be promising youth we have there
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 25, 2021 9:14:16 GMT -5
With as many needs as we have, we cannot draft for need at 11. Inconvenient truth Linebacker isn't a major need ...especially with all the what looks to be promising youth we have there Even so, if they have Parsons as the highest rated guy at 11, they should take him. I doubt that will be the case however, unless the 3WR’s, Pitts and Slater are off the board.
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Post by jmike on Feb 25, 2021 9:39:27 GMT -5
Bateman is bigger with fans than the scouts. He isn't even the 4th best receiver on a lot of big boards. I've seen Toney and Stevenson rated higher. Personally I prefer Marshall and Collins in RD 2 and taking the BPA at 11. Every board is different and I have Bateman @ WR #4 for whatever thats worth. I agree with your opinion on Bateman. But neither of our opinions are really worth much in the grand scheme. I tend to group players rather that give them relative ranks. I have Chase and Smith as my top group. Waddle, Bateman, Toney and Marshall are in the next group. It is early yet, we will learn more about these players as the draft approaches.
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Post by giantlegacy on Feb 25, 2021 9:55:29 GMT -5
Inconvenient truth Linebacker isn't a major need ...especially with all the what looks to be promising youth we have there Even so, if they have Parsons as the highest rated guy at 11, they should take him. I doubt that will be the case however, unless the 3WR’s, Pitts and Slater are off the board. And Surtain
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Post by McCherry on Feb 25, 2021 10:44:57 GMT -5
In the last 2 seasons Robinson has 200 receptions, 2400 yards, 13 TD’s at over 12 yards per catch. That’s as dominant as anyone who’s played the position. Label him what you want, he doesn’t stretch the field, he tears it a new ass. And? Those numbers were inflated because he was their only targetHe never takes over games to the point of the defense having to sell out to stop him He is a notch below Amari Cooper if that and wants to be paid like him(who is also horribly overpaid for his production) Let some other team make this terrible mistake By that logic every team should have a 100-catch receiver. And who was throwing to him? If you're averaging over 6 catches per game at 12 yards per catch, clearly, no defense can match up with you. He may not be a great fit money-wise, but there are no questions about his ability.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 11:42:43 GMT -5
You can have both, or multiples of the same. Toomer, Plax, Smith Jr.. (all possession guys) That was also 14 years ago and Plax was a deep threat that threatened all areas of the field Look how our offense took off to the next level once we got actual.dynamic threats I'm 2009 with Nicks and Manningham and then with Cruz It's a different game now ,all your good offenses have multiple players that can threaten the entire field to force defenses to have to defend them,even Tennessee (which is why Henry had so much room tbis year),which is why if anyone if rather cave Corey Davis and maybe Elkridge day 2 if we can't get one of the big 4. A possession reciever as a starter makes tbe entire offense easier to defend We have different views and thats ok.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 25, 2021 11:45:26 GMT -5
Parsons was not a great example your right. Even with OT this is a strong draft for tackles unless it's Sewell and there is no Edge worth that pick wouldn't wanna relive the Cedric Jones nightmare again.A trade down is possible if the play making talent isn.t there. With as many needs as we have, we cannot draft for need at 11. Agree 100% especially if a prospect that is considered the best to come out at his position in the last 10 or 15 years Sewell is that.also what has to come into account is this is a 3 round deep draft for Tackles and WRs. The reason I had Parsons in there is because he might not be the popular pick but he would be great value at 11 and is multiple can contribute in the pass rush as well as cover a ton of ground against the run and short pass.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 11:49:38 GMT -5
With as many needs as we have, we cannot draft for need at 11. Agree 100% especially if a prospect that is considered the best to come out at his position in the last 10 or 15 years Sewell is that.also what has to come into account is this is a 3 round deep draft for Tackles and WRs. The reason I had Parsons in there is because he might not be the popular pick but he would be great value at 11 and is multiple can contribute in the pass rush as well as cover a ton of ground against the run and short pass. If Sewell is considered the best to come out at his position in the last 10-15 years there's no way he's there at 11 if we're following 'BPA regardless of need' theory. Parsons as well.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 25, 2021 12:05:31 GMT -5
Agree 100% especially if a prospect that is considered the best to come out at his position in the last 10 or 15 years Sewell is that.also what has to come into account is this is a 3 round deep draft for Tackles and WRs. The reason I had Parsons in there is because he might not be the popular pick but he would be great value at 11 and is multiple can contribute in the pass rush as well as cover a ton of ground against the run and short pass. If Sewell is considered the best to come out at his position in the last 10-15 years there's no way he's there at 11 if we're following 'BPA regardless of need' theory. Parsons as well. Thats why I said if for some freak reason Sewell ends up at 11 you don't think twice done deal WR RD 2 or trade up. I don't think Parsons is the best at his position coming out in the last 5years let alone 10 or 15 but he is a really good player. I would not agree with the pick but I wouldn't be ticked his skilll matches that draft slot and if his head is on straight should be a very good defender for years to come for who ever drafts him.
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 25, 2021 12:09:35 GMT -5
Even so, if they have Parsons as the highest rated guy at 11, they should take him. I doubt that will be the case however, unless the 3WR’s, Pitts and Slater are off the board. And Surtain Not sure that Surtain will be rated higher than Parsons
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 12:12:59 GMT -5
If Sewell is considered the best to come out at his position in the last 10-15 years there's no way he's there at 11 if we're following 'BPA regardless of need' theory. Parsons as well. Thats why I said if for some freak reason Sewell ends up at 11 you don't think twice done deal WR RD 2 or trade up. I don't think Parsons is the best at his position coming out in the last 5years let alone 10 or 15 but he is a really good player. I would not agree with the pick but I wouldn't be ticked his skilll matches that draft slot and if his head is on straight should be a very good defender for years to come for who ever drafts him. Imo, we only make that BPA pick if we sign a WR in the off-season. In theory that's the best move, but if you sign a Galloday or a Robinson are you really passing up on Devonte Smith, Bateman or Waddle at that point? Securing offense for 4-5 years outweighs BPA at this point for me.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 25, 2021 12:31:40 GMT -5
Thats why I said if for some freak reason Sewell ends up at 11 you don't think twice done deal WR RD 2 or trade up. I don't think Parsons is the best at his position coming out in the last 5years let alone 10 or 15 but he is a really good player. I would not agree with the pick but I wouldn't be ticked his skilll matches that draft slot and if his head is on straight should be a very good defender for years to come for who ever drafts him. Imo, we only make that BPA pick if we sign a WR in the off-season. In theory that's the best move, but if you sign a Galloday or a Robinson are you really passing up on Devonte Smith, Bateman or Waddle at that point? Securing offense for 4-5 years outweighs BPA at this point for me. For me any other tackle yes you can get one later if the so desire, but a guy at a premium position that is projected to be in special group of tyron Smith types you don't pass on. There are other WRs and there are several year in and year out Tackles like this don't come along often. Then again the draft is a crap shoot he might bust so might Waddle / Smith or any other prospect. I want playmaker in a bad way but the way you build for sustainable success is not turning down top prospects of the decade. Sewell won't be there so we really don't even have to think about it. If your telling sign or Draft a WR or I say draft enjoy the fruits of a young team on their rookie deals, at the rate colleges produce WRs it is almost not worth paying them unless they are one you groomed .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 12:39:06 GMT -5
Imo, we only make that BPA pick if we sign a WR in the off-season. In theory that's the best move, but if you sign a Galloday or a Robinson are you really passing up on Devonte Smith, Bateman or Waddle at that point? Securing offense for 4-5 years outweighs BPA at this point for me. For me any other tackle yes you can get one later if the so desire, but a guy at a premium position that is projected to be in special group of tyron Smith types you don't pass on. There are other WRs and there are several year in and year out Tackles like this don't come along often. Then again the draft is a crap shoot he might bust so might Waddle / Smith or any other prospect. I want playmaker in a bad way but the way you build for sustainable success is not turning down top prospects of the decade. Sewell won't be there so we really don't even have to think about it. If your telling sign or Draft a WR or I say draft enjoy the fruits of a young team on their rookie deals, at the rate colleges produce WRs it is almost not worth paying them unless they are one you groomed . I respect your pov.. but if you give me Robinson/Galloday & Smith/Waddle/Bateman on 4 year contracts (minimum) I will be ok developing Peart at RT with Saquon running behind him during that time.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Feb 25, 2021 16:14:49 GMT -5
For me any other tackle yes you can get one later if the so desire, but a guy at a premium position that is projected to be in special group of tyron Smith types you don't pass on. There are other WRs and there are several year in and year out Tackles like this don't come along often. Then again the draft is a crap shoot he might bust so might Waddle / Smith or any other prospect. I want playmaker in a bad way but the way you build for sustainable success is not turning down top prospects of the decade. Sewell won't be there so we really don't even have to think about it. If your telling sign or Draft a WR or I say draft enjoy the fruits of a young team on their rookie deals, at the rate colleges produce WRs it is almost not worth paying them unless they are one you groomed . I respect your pov.. but if you give me Robinson/Galloday & Smith/Waddle/Bateman on 4 year contracts (minimum) I will be ok developing Peart at RT with Saquon running behind him during that time. Thats the whole thing there is no right or wrong all these options are solid, If that happened I wouldn't be going nuts saying what a fool Gettlemen is there is more then 1 way to skin a cat lol. I think it's to bad Covid came we would have been in the drivers seat this off season, saving 12 mill if we cut solder and another 6 with Tate plus the cap would have been around 210 mil we would of had about 40 mill or more plus next year would be around 110. It sucks for everyone but this really derailed their plans or at least pushed it back a year.
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Post by Kase1 on Feb 25, 2021 17:17:31 GMT -5
After Parsons' off the field allegations, I could see us being off our draft board, ESPECIALLY since the DeAndre Baker fiasco was only last season
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Post by nyg2 on Feb 25, 2021 17:31:32 GMT -5
Seems like an odd hill to die on. Of the big 4, Smith and Waddle actually scare me the most. Bateman isn't even on my radar, although I've started to hear his name from other posters more and more recently. I'll need to brush up. Trading down hasn't been discussed much, but it's not completely out of the question. There are a few players I'd have a hard time passing up, but all things being equal I'm all for trading down. I'm not a big fan of Waddle, he can't run the entire route tree and isn't really a fit in our system, but what are your concerns regarding Devonta Smith? I know some on here want us to reach for any WR, but if the value isn't there and FO doesn't like any prospect at 11, I'd be open to us trading down and acquiring some day 2 picks.
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Post by piddy283 on Feb 26, 2021 0:18:39 GMT -5
Seems like an odd hill to die on. Of the big 4, Smith and Waddle actually scare me the most. Bateman isn't even on my radar, although I've started to hear his name from other posters more and more recently. I'll need to brush up. Trading down hasn't been discussed much, but it's not completely out of the question. There are a few players I'd have a hard time passing up, but all things being equal I'm all for trading down. I'm not a big fan of Waddle, he can't run the entire route tree and isn't really a fit in our system, but what are your concerns regarding Devonta Smith? I know some on here want us to reach for any WR, but if the value isn't there and FO doesn't like any prospect at 11, I'd be open to us trading down and acquiring some day 2 picks. His frame. That's it. I think he's a stud and would ultimately be happy if we took him, but I have real concerns with him holding up. Alabama had legit threats at nearly every position, which spread most defenses thin. In the NFL, Smith is going to be a target. At 165-170lbs, I just don't seem him holding up. Waddle would be the only one of the top 4 offensive weapons I feel would be a reach. In my opinion, he seems like the same "gadget player" awe see every year that never pans out, plus he's coming off an injury. There are better ways to spend the #11 pick.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 4:43:44 GMT -5
Even so, if they have Parsons as the highest rated guy at 11, they should take him. I doubt that will be the case however, unless the 3WR’s, Pitts and Slater are off the board. And Surtain Surtain, depending in his pro day...speed matters.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 4:46:19 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of Waddle, he can't run the entire route tree and isn't really a fit in our system, but what are your concerns regarding Devonta Smith? I know some on here want us to reach for any WR, but if the value isn't there and FO doesn't like any prospect at 11, I'd be open to us trading down and acquiring some day 2 picks. His frame. That's it. I think he's a stud and would ultimately be happy if we took him, but I have real concerns with him holding up. Alabama had legit threats at nearly every position, which spread most defenses thin. In the NFL, Smith is going to be a target. At 165-170lbs, I just don't seem him holding up. Waddle would be the only one of the top 4 offensive weapons I feel would be a reach. In my opinion, he seems like the same "gadget player" awe see every year that never pans out, plus he's coming off an injury. There are better ways to spend the #11 pick. Agreed, there will be scouting departments having the the slim reaper discussion/debate before they pick top ten...he could literally be a WR that slides a bit, unless a team is in love with trophies
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Post by Roswell on Feb 26, 2021 5:32:04 GMT -5
Not sure that Surtain will be rated higher than Parsons As much as I’d love to have a player with Parsons skill set on the Giants, he has red flags that might scare the Giants off since they just got burned by DeAndre Baker. I think he’s off some draft boards. And wouldn’t be surprised if the Giants are one of them. edit - just read ahead and Kase said the exact same thing as me so never mind.
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Post by piddy283 on Feb 26, 2021 6:06:43 GMT -5
His frame. That's it. I think he's a stud and would ultimately be happy if we took him, but I have real concerns with him holding up. Alabama had legit threats at nearly every position, which spread most defenses thin. In the NFL, Smith is going to be a target. At 165-170lbs, I just don't seem him holding up. Waddle would be the only one of the top 4 offensive weapons I feel would be a reach. In my opinion, he seems like the same "gadget player" awe see every year that never pans out, plus he's coming off an injury. There are better ways to spend the #11 pick. Agreed, there will be scouting departments having the the slim reaper discussion/debate before they pick top ten...he could literally be a WR that slides a bit, unless a team is in love with trophies The slim reaper......I see exactly what you did there. Well played.
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Post by Fletch842 on Feb 26, 2021 7:13:08 GMT -5
Not sure that Surtain will be rated higher than Parsons As much as I’d love to have a player with Parsons skill set on the Giants, he has red flags that might scare the Giants off since they just got burned by DeAndre Baker. I think he’s off some draft boards. And wouldn’t be surprised if the Giants are one of them. edit - just read ahead and Kase said the exact same thing as me so never mind. the Parson allegations are much different then Baker's. Word was that Baker was lazy, had to be pushed to the max to get him to work, not that he was involved in a violent hazing attack on a younger teammate. Again, these are allegations, who knows what really happened, but they are quite disturbing. Isn't there a former Penn State coach on our staff? He may have better insight into it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 7:26:22 GMT -5
Agreed, there will be scouting departments having the the slim reaper discussion/debate before they pick top ten...he could literally be a WR that slides a bit, unless a team is in love with trophies The slim reaper......I see exactly what you did there. Well played. I can't take credit...that's actually his nickname
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Post by Fletch842 on Feb 26, 2021 10:47:21 GMT -5
The slim reaper......I see exactly what you did there. Well played. I can't take credit...that's actually his nickname I like it!!
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Post by McCherry on Feb 26, 2021 11:15:27 GMT -5
Not sure that Surtain will be rated higher than Parsons As much as I’d love to have a player with Parsons skill set on the Giants, he has red flags that might scare the Giants off since they just got burned by DeAndre Baker. I think he’s off some draft boards. And wouldn’t be surprised if the Giants are one of them. edit - just read ahead and Kase said the exact same thing as me so never mind. The Baker incident may put the Giants in a tough spot, but I wouldn't have a problem taking Parsons based on everything I've read.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2021 14:28:32 GMT -5
Just rewatched Smith’s game vs UGA. Any doubts you have of his size or toughness or whatever should evaporate after watching until the end.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2021 3:38:51 GMT -5
Seems like an odd hill to die on. Of the big 4, Smith and Waddle actually scare me the most. Bateman isn't even on my radar, although I've started to hear his name from other posters more and more recently. I'll need to brush up. Trading down hasn't been discussed much, but it's not completely out of the question. There are a few players I'd have a hard time passing up, but all things being equal I'm all for trading down. I'm not a big fan of Waddle, he can't run the entire route tree and isn't really a fit in our system, but what are your concerns regarding Devonta Smith? I know some on here want us to reach for any WR, but if the value isn't there and FO doesn't like any prospect at 11, I'd be open to us trading down and acquiring some day 2 picks. He can't?...or was not asked to? He can. What actual system do we run? Please x and o me ... How would Waddle not fit into any system, and ours ...you can even o and x me on this
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Post by TCHOF on Feb 27, 2021 14:19:30 GMT -5
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