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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 28, 2021 18:43:40 GMT -5
Yeah ok, i'm ignoring all context while you're dismissing the entire screwup of not only drafting Barkley and the Eli fiasco but shipping out all the 4/3 personnel on the LOS besides Tomlinson who he just lost. The Bills cleaned up their cap while the Giants have botched theirs up yearly. You actually brought up OBJ? You mean the guy Gettleman resigned and then traded which botched the cap yet again? Ereck Flowers who played decent in DC, went to Miami and was just traded back to DC? He's been more stable than multiple linemen Gettleman has signed and far less costly. Seems you want to applaud Gettleman for trying to win with Eli b/c it wasn't a rebuild, ignore all the DL personnel he moved out, ignore the cap, ignore his kicking @ss everyday mouth, ignore Eli riding the bench north of $20 million, all these idiotic FA signings including Ogletree, etc, the moronic Williams trade and the botched a Head Coach. Yeah, never mind the Browns, Bills and Indy b/c of history before 2011. Ready for that 5th year option for Barkley? A do or die year for Jones already. Gettleman has been horrific and was given a gift of one more life despite not deserving it. Your reading comprehension needs some serious, serious work. I also question your football acumen when you’re suggesting ERECK FLOWERS was a quality piece left behind by Reese. Yes, a journeyman guard. your agenda from the outset was obvious. You’re happy with Gettleman’s work. As far the rest, look in the mirror.
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Post by BlueReign on Apr 28, 2021 18:57:35 GMT -5
Your reading comprehension needs some serious, serious work. I also question your football acumen when you’re suggesting ERECK FLOWERS was a quality piece left behind by Reese. Yes, a journeyman guard. your agenda from the outset was obvious. You’re happy with Gettleman’s work. As far the rest, look in the mirror. I mean, my mirror is reflective of me. I don’t know how it would reflect someone who can’t string together a logical argument. Gettleman gets a bad rap because of lazy analysis from people. His good has outweighed his bad. You continually point to the Saquon pick yet don’t realize attempting to win with Eli was a pre-requisite for getting the GM job. Drafting Saquon was the only move in that regard. Trust me, I didn’t like that pick either. But it seems obvious WHY he did it. Ogletree, poor trade. Omameh, poor signing. He’s made his mistakes. But EVERYONE misses in FA/trades from time to time (though his event track record in FA has been good). He handled OBJ well and I outlined my thoughts behind that. If you want to take umbrage with that, what would you have done with the cap savings from Odell’s contract? Would you have gotten players of the quality of Peppers, Zeitler and Lawrence? Probably not. You’re misconstruing my point that I think you need to believe Gettleman is a good GM. I said in my first post that I understand why people don’t like him. But people like yourself can’t handle someone thinking the opposite. Instead, you conflated your feeling with actual facts and couldn’t understand that the Bills and Giants are on two different timelines. If you want to continue to be obtuse, continue on without me.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 28, 2021 19:04:25 GMT -5
your agenda from the outset was obvious. You’re happy with Gettleman’s work. As far the rest, look in the mirror. I mean, my mirror is reflective of me. I don’t know how it would reflect someone who can’t string together a logical argument. Gettleman gets a bad rap because of lazy analysis from people. His good has outweighed his bad. You continually point to the Saquon pick yet don’t realize attempting to win with Eli was a pre-requisite for getting the GM job. Drafting Saquon was the only move in that regard. Trust me, I didn’t like that pick either. But it seems obvious WHY he did it. Ogletree, poor trade. Omameh, poor signing. He’s made his mistakes. But EVERYONE misses in FA/trades from time to time (though his event track record in FA has been good). He handled OBJ well and I outlined my thoughts behind that. If you want to take umbrage with that, what would you have done with the cap savings from Odell’s contract? Would you have gotten players of the quality of Peppers, Zeitler and Lawrence? Probably not. You’re misconstruing my point that I think you need to believe Gettleman is a good GM. I said in my first post that I understand why people don’t like him. But people like yourself can’t handle someone thinking the opposite. Instead, you conflate your feeling with actual facts and couldn’t understand that the Bills and Giants are on two different timelines. If you want to continue to be obtuse, continue on without me. The Giants should be on the same timeline as the Bills, Browns and Colts. Instead they have 6 wins and questions still everywhere with only a free agent spending spree of backloaded contracts. You should question your own acumen and understanding of the cap being you endorse the comical handling of OBJ.
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Post by BlueReign on Apr 28, 2021 19:19:56 GMT -5
I mean, my mirror is reflective of me. I don’t know how it would reflect someone who can’t string together a logical argument. Gettleman gets a bad rap because of lazy analysis from people. His good has outweighed his bad. You continually point to the Saquon pick yet don’t realize attempting to win with Eli was a pre-requisite for getting the GM job. Drafting Saquon was the only move in that regard. Trust me, I didn’t like that pick either. But it seems obvious WHY he did it. Ogletree, poor trade. Omameh, poor signing. He’s made his mistakes. But EVERYONE misses in FA/trades from time to time (though his event track record in FA has been good). He handled OBJ well and I outlined my thoughts behind that. If you want to take umbrage with that, what would you have done with the cap savings from Odell’s contract? Would you have gotten players of the quality of Peppers, Zeitler and Lawrence? Probably not. You’re misconstruing my point that I think you need to believe Gettleman is a good GM. I said in my first post that I understand why people don’t like him. But people like yourself can’t handle someone thinking the opposite. Instead, you conflate your feeling with actual facts and couldn’t understand that the Bills and Giants are on two different timelines. If you want to continue to be obtuse, continue on without me. The Giants should be on the same timeline as the Bills, Browns and Colts. Instead they have 6 wins and questions still everywhere with only a free agent spending spree of backloaded contracts. You should question your own acumen and understanding of the cap being you endorse the comical handling of OBJ. You could’ve just said you didn’t have an answer to my question. Take care. Oh. By the way: Lafreniere sucks. Daigle 2.0.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 28, 2021 19:27:45 GMT -5
The Giants should be on the same timeline as the Bills, Browns and Colts. Instead they have 6 wins and questions still everywhere with only a free agent spending spree of backloaded contracts. You should question your own acumen and understanding of the cap being you endorse the comical handling of OBJ. You could’ve just said you didn’t have an answer to my question. Take care. Oh. By the way: Lafreniere sucks. Daigle 2.0. Sums you up.
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Post by BlueReign on Apr 28, 2021 20:08:17 GMT -5
You could’ve just said you didn’t have an answer to my question. Take care. Oh. By the way: Lafreniere sucks. Daigle 2.0. Sums you up. ... still waiting for that answer. But, you know, ad hominem and such
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Post by Jomo on Apr 28, 2021 20:11:25 GMT -5
I love a good food fight.
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Post by TCHOF on Apr 28, 2021 20:38:00 GMT -5
The Giants may like Paye, but maybe they like him if players X, Y and Z are gone ... we have no idea.
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Post by jmike on Apr 29, 2021 7:36:53 GMT -5
I mean, my mirror is reflective of me. I don’t know how it would reflect someone who can’t string together a logical argument. Gettleman gets a bad rap because of lazy analysis from people. His good has outweighed his bad. You continually point to the Saquon pick yet don’t realize attempting to win with Eli was a pre-requisite for getting the GM job. Drafting Saquon was the only move in that regard. Trust me, I didn’t like that pick either. But it seems obvious WHY he did it. Ogletree, poor trade. Omameh, poor signing. He’s made his mistakes. But EVERYONE misses in FA/trades from time to time (though his event track record in FA has been good). He handled OBJ well and I outlined my thoughts behind that. If you want to take umbrage with that, what would you have done with the cap savings from Odell’s contract? Would you have gotten players of the quality of Peppers, Zeitler and Lawrence? Probably not. You’re misconstruing my point that I think you need to believe Gettleman is a good GM. I said in my first post that I understand why people don’t like him. But people like yourself can’t handle someone thinking the opposite. Instead, you conflate your feeling with actual facts and couldn’t understand that the Bills and Giants are on two different timelines. If you want to continue to be obtuse, continue on without me. The Giants should be on the same timeline as the Bills, Browns and Colts. Instead they have 6 wins and questions still everywhere with only a free agent spending spree of backloaded contracts. You should question your own acumen and understanding of the cap being you endorse the comical handling of OBJ. Unfortunately "should" is not a particularly useful word when reviewing the past. If you'd like to play the "should" game this board will be nothing but a jumbled mess of overlapping alternate histories.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 29, 2021 8:43:41 GMT -5
The Giants should be on the same timeline as the Bills, Browns and Colts. Instead they have 6 wins and questions still everywhere with only a free agent spending spree of backloaded contracts. You should question your own acumen and understanding of the cap being you endorse the comical handling of OBJ. Unfortunately "should" is not a particularly useful word when reviewing the past. If you'd like to play the "should" game this board will be nothing but a jumbled mess of overlapping alternate histories. The Giants had 6 wins last season. The other teams mentioned picked in and around when the Giants selected Barkley. The Giants have had the least amount of success when comparing the teams since that draft. That’s all i objectively know despite whatever angle people are taking.
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Post by jmike on Apr 29, 2021 9:19:50 GMT -5
Unfortunately "should" is not a particularly useful word when reviewing the past. If you'd like to play the "should" game this board will be nothing but a jumbled mess of overlapping alternate histories. The Giants had 6 wins last season. The other teams mentioned picked in and around when the Giants selected Barkley. The Giants have had the least amount of success when comparing the teams since that draft. That’s all i objectively know despite whatever angle people are taking. I don't see anyone disputing that. Nor do I find it relevant as a reply to my post. But I find people use the word should a lot, particularly my 14 year old nephew when he is upset when something doesn't turn out how he wants. Lots of what should have happened from him. I don't find that looking at what "should" have happened to be particularly useful nor do I find it to be a fruitful endeavor. What happened, happened. I think we can all agree that quite a number of bad decisions and unfortunate results have put the Giants in the position they are now. There are both signs to be hopeful about the recent decision making and concerned because these are many of the same people that made the bad decisions.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 29, 2021 9:26:43 GMT -5
The Giants had 6 wins last season. The other teams mentioned picked in and around when the Giants selected Barkley. The Giants have had the least amount of success when comparing the teams since that draft. That’s all i objectively know despite whatever angle people are taking. I don't see anyone disputing that. Nor do I find it relevant as a reply to my post. But I find people use the word should a lot, particularly my 14 year old nephew when he is upset when something doesn't turn out how he wants. Lots of what should have happened from him. I don't find that looking at what "should" have happened to be particularly useful nor do I find it to be a fruitful endeavor. What happened, happened. I think we can all agree that quite a number of bad decisions and unfortunate results have put the Giants in the position they are now. There are both signs to be hopeful about the recent decision making and concerned because these are many of the same people that made the bad decisions. I find the record objective and relevant.
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Post by BlueReign on Apr 29, 2021 9:29:02 GMT -5
I don't see anyone disputing that. Nor do I find it relevant as a reply to my post. But I find people use the word should a lot, particularly my 14 year old nephew when he is upset when something doesn't turn out how he wants. Lots of what should have happened from him. I don't find that looking at what "should" have happened to be particularly useful nor do I find it to be a fruitful endeavor. What happened, happened. I think we can all agree that quite a number of bad decisions and unfortunate results have put the Giants in the position they are now. There are both signs to be hopeful about the recent decision making and concerned because these are many of the same people that made the bad decisions. I find the record objective and relevant. If records are the be all end all, you surely think the 2016 Giants were better than the 2007 Giants, right? After all, 11>10.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2021 9:29:03 GMT -5
I don't see anyone disputing that. Nor do I find it relevant as a reply to my post. But I find people use the word should a lot, particularly my 14 year old nephew when he is upset when something doesn't turn out how he wants. Lots of what should have happened from him. I don't find that looking at what "should" have happened to be particularly useful nor do I find it to be a fruitful endeavor. What happened, happened. I think we can all agree that quite a number of bad decisions and unfortunate results have put the Giants in the position they are now. There are both signs to be hopeful about the recent decision making and concerned because these are many of the same people that made the bad decisions. I find the record objective and relevant. It's crazy how some fans don't.. This isn't HS or peewee ball and speaking of that where's the resident flag star been?
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 29, 2021 9:32:20 GMT -5
I find the record objective and relevant. If records are the be all end all, you surely think the 2016 Giants were better than the 2007 Giants, right? After all, 11>10. i do believe there are two fans who post from 6am to 3 am each day who would enjoy conversing with you.
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Post by jmike on Apr 29, 2021 9:40:41 GMT -5
I don't see anyone disputing that. Nor do I find it relevant as a reply to my post. But I find people use the word should a lot, particularly my 14 year old nephew when he is upset when something doesn't turn out how he wants. Lots of what should have happened from him. I don't find that looking at what "should" have happened to be particularly useful nor do I find it to be a fruitful endeavor. What happened, happened. I think we can all agree that quite a number of bad decisions and unfortunate results have put the Giants in the position they are now. There are both signs to be hopeful about the recent decision making and concerned because these are many of the same people that made the bad decisions. I find the record objective and relevant. Again, this is not relevant to my comments. Their record is relevant to their success and their competence. Neither of which looks good over the past few seasons. I don't see anyone disputing that. But my comments were directed at the usefulness of discussing what should have happened. I don't see anyone disputing that.
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Post by BlueReign on Apr 29, 2021 9:45:53 GMT -5
If records are the be all end all, you surely think the 2016 Giants were better than the 2007 Giants, right? After all, 11>10. i do believe there are two fans who post from 6am to 3 am each day who would enjoy conversing with you. Another deflection. You're quite adept at that. Once again, I'll ask you, what would you have done differently than Gettleman? Not drafted Saquon? Not traded for LW? Not traded for Ogletree? Not signed Solder? But surely you would've signed Bradberry, Martinez, Ryan and Golden though, right? Because those moves were so obvious and very popular around these parts. The sum of your argument is essentially this: he made errors that anyone could've/should've seen and his good moves were obvious choices. Did I distill it down properly? Disregard the general approval/excitement of the Solder signing (this is one of those moves that everyone thought was obvious at the time of signing, though I'm sure you didn't) from media, pundits and fans alike. I bet you also knew Deandre Baker was going to go through his tribulations. You really should apply for a GM opening. You're masterful at not only deflections, but your hindsight is second to none.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 29, 2021 9:46:29 GMT -5
I find the record objective and relevant. Again, this is not relevant to my comments. Their record is relevant to their success and their competence. Neither of which looks good over the past few seasons. I don't see anyone disputing that. But my comments were directed at the usefulness of discussing what should have happened. I don't see anyone disputing that. Sticking with the record and what i’ve posted. Not really sure what direction some are going. Seems more subjective with no direction so i’ll give some effort to clarify and then let it go. Debating over the word “should” and how a 14 uses the word is likely not something i’m going to spend too much time on.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 29, 2021 9:51:32 GMT -5
i do believe there are two fans who post from 6am to 3 am each day who would enjoy conversing with you. Another deflection. You're quite adept at that. Once again, I'll ask you, what would you have done differently than Gettleman? Not drafted Saquon? Not traded for LW? Not traded for Ogletree? Not signed Solder? But surely you would've signed Bradberry, Martinez, Ryan and Golden though, right? Because those moves were so obvious and very popular around these parts. The sum of your argument is essentially this: he made errors that anyone could've/should've seen and his good moves were obvious choices. Did I distill it down properly? Disregard the general approval/excitement of the Solder signing (this is one of those moves that everyone thought was obvious at the time of signing, though I'm sure you didn't) from media, pundits and fans alike. I bet you also knew Deandre Baker was going to go through his tribulations. You really should apply for a GM opening. You're masterful at not only deflections, but your hindsight is second to none. i don’t care. It’s the truth, not a deflection. Repeating, justifying, clarifying, etc three years worth of material is not on my radar. Looking forward to the draft and Rangers tonight along with Laf who you think is Daig.
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Post by jmike on Apr 29, 2021 9:55:50 GMT -5
Again, this is not relevant to my comments. Their record is relevant to their success and their competence. Neither of which looks good over the past few seasons. I don't see anyone disputing that. But my comments were directed at the usefulness of discussing what should have happened. I don't see anyone disputing that. Sticking with the record and what i’ve posted. Not really sure what direction some are going. Seems more subjective with no direction so i’ll give some effort to clarify and then let it go. Debating over the word “should” and how a 14 uses the word is likely not something i’m going to spend too much time on. Well everything we discuss here is opinion. If we wanted to stick to only facts and stats, we wouldn't need a discussion board, just a stat website. Here, you will only see facts and stats listed here. No need to deal with any pesky opinions. www.pro-football-reference.com/
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Post by jmike on Apr 29, 2021 10:00:26 GMT -5
Another deflection. You're quite adept at that. Once again, I'll ask you, what would you have done differently than Gettleman? Not drafted Saquon? Not traded for LW? Not traded for Ogletree? Not signed Solder? But surely you would've signed Bradberry, Martinez, Ryan and Golden though, right? Because those moves were so obvious and very popular around these parts. The sum of your argument is essentially this: he made errors that anyone could've/should've seen and his good moves were obvious choices. Did I distill it down properly? Disregard the general approval/excitement of the Solder signing (this is one of those moves that everyone thought was obvious at the time of signing, though I'm sure you didn't) from media, pundits and fans alike. I bet you also knew Deandre Baker was going to go through his tribulations. You really should apply for a GM opening. You're masterful at not only deflections, but your hindsight is second to none. i don’t care. It’s the truth, not a deflection. Repeating, justifying, clarifying, etc three years worth of material is not on my radar. Looking forward to the draft and Rangers tonight along with Laf who you think is Daig. Giants fan, Rangers fan; a couple of teams that like to beat up their fans with their ineptitude for long stretches between some winning. I'm only a Giants fan of the two, but it has been rough. Well I hope you enjoy both the game and the draft.
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Post by Rangers13 on Apr 29, 2021 10:36:41 GMT -5
Sticking with the record and what i’ve posted. Not really sure what direction some are going. Seems more subjective with no direction so i’ll give some effort to clarify and then let it go. Debating over the word “should” and how a 14 uses the word is likely not something i’m going to spend too much time on. Well everything we discuss here is objective. If we wanted to stick to only facts and stats, we wouldn't need a discussion board, just a stat website. Here, you will only see facts and stats listed here. No need to deal with any pesky opinions. www.pro-football-reference.com/you mean subjective.
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Post by jmike on Apr 29, 2021 10:56:30 GMT -5
Well everything we discuss here is objective. If we wanted to stick to only facts and stats, we wouldn't need a discussion board, just a stat website. Here, you will only see facts and stats listed here. No need to deal with any pesky opinions. www.pro-football-reference.com/ you mean subjective. LOL...yes I did...thank you. I'll correct it.
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Post by Sarcasman on Apr 29, 2021 11:01:51 GMT -5
I find the record objective and relevant. It's crazy how some fans don't.. This isn't HS or peewee ball and speaking of that where's the resident flag star been? If there are 12 objective truths at play and one is asked if 6 of them are valid, the answer is yes despite it being only half of the full set. And since these are all just the opinions of casual fans, there's really no point in challenging that statement even though it is intellectually inconsistent and purposefully leaves out critically important and relevant information. The basic statement of those six items being recognized is unassailably true and therefore the perfect thing to hide behind.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2021 11:11:41 GMT -5
It's crazy how some fans don't.. This isn't HS or peewee ball and speaking of that where's the resident flag star been? If there are 12 objective truths at play and one is asked if 6 of them are valid, the answer is yes despite it being only half of the full set. And since these are all just the opinions of casual fans, there's really no point in challenging that statement even though it is intellectually inconsistent and purposefully leaves out critically important and relevant information. The basic statement of those six items being recognized is unassailably true and therefore the perfect thing to hide behind. This is the NFL where they are paid to win games.. Looks like some of you have decided this to be false.. Thanks for trolling it's very much appreciated!!
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Post by Sarcasman on Apr 29, 2021 11:19:18 GMT -5
If there are 12 objective truths at play and one is asked if 6 of them are valid, the answer is yes despite it being only half of the full set. And since these are all just the opinions of casual fans, there's really no point in challenging that statement even though it is intellectually inconsistent and purposefully leaves out critically important and relevant information. The basic statement of those six items being recognized is unassailably true and therefore the perfect thing to hide behind. This is the NFL where they are paid to win games.. Looks like some of you have decided this to be false.. Thanks for trolling it's very much appreciated!! A differing opinion is not trolling anymore than an irrelevant non sequitur reminding the board that NFL teams are paid to win games is. Just as leaving out objective facts from an analysis may be considered trolling, but actually is usually just innocuous incapacity.
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Post by GameTime on Apr 29, 2021 11:20:25 GMT -5
If there are 12 objective truths at play and one is asked if 6 of them are valid, the answer is yes despite it being only half of the full set. And since these are all just the opinions of casual fans, there's really no point in challenging that statement even though it is intellectually inconsistent and purposefully leaves out critically important and relevant information. The basic statement of those six items being recognized is unassailably true and therefore the perfect thing to hide behind. This is the NFL where they are paid to win games.. Looks like some of you have decided this to be false.. Thanks for trolling it's very much appreciated!! the GMs and caches are paid to ultimately win games but its a crazy path to get there but that is the ultimate goal. The players are paid to make plays and to play their position the best they can. Putting those things together is a tough haul. Doesnt really matter what a fan thinks of their team does it. ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2021 11:23:29 GMT -5
This is the NFL where they are paid to win games.. Looks like some of you have decided this to be false.. Thanks for trolling it's very much appreciated!! A differing opinion is not trolling anymore than an irrelevant non sequitur reminding the board that NFL teams are paid to win games is. Just as leaving out objective facts from an analysis may be considered trolling, but actually is usually just innocuous incapacity. Thanks for continuing with your trolling.. Looks like today is my special day with you.. How blessed am I?? Enjoy the moment and pray the draft pick will be a big contributor to some actual wins..
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Post by Sarcasman on Apr 29, 2021 12:01:47 GMT -5
A differing opinion is not trolling anymore than an irrelevant non sequitur reminding the board that NFL teams are paid to win games is. Just as leaving out objective facts from an analysis may be considered trolling, but actually is usually just innocuous incapacity. Thanks for continuing with your trolling.. Looks like today is my special day with you.. How blessed am I?? Enjoy the moment and pray the draft pick will be a big contributor to some actual wins.. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Post by BlueReign on Apr 29, 2021 12:01:48 GMT -5
Another deflection. You're quite adept at that. Once again, I'll ask you, what would you have done differently than Gettleman? Not drafted Saquon? Not traded for LW? Not traded for Ogletree? Not signed Solder? But surely you would've signed Bradberry, Martinez, Ryan and Golden though, right? Because those moves were so obvious and very popular around these parts. The sum of your argument is essentially this: he made errors that anyone could've/should've seen and his good moves were obvious choices. Did I distill it down properly? Disregard the general approval/excitement of the Solder signing (this is one of those moves that everyone thought was obvious at the time of signing, though I'm sure you didn't) from media, pundits and fans alike. I bet you also knew Deandre Baker was going to go through his tribulations. You really should apply for a GM opening. You're masterful at not only deflections, but your hindsight is second to none. i don’t care. It’s the truth, not a deflection. Repeating, justifying, clarifying, etc three years worth of material is not on my radar. Looking forward to the draft and Rangers tonight along with Laf who you think is Daig. It's ignoring context. I compared Lafreniere to Daigle because it follows your line of thinking; Lafreniere has a much lower PPG than Daigle did in his rookie season, since numbers are everything Lafreniere must be a bust. Or does context only apply when it supports your position? There's not much more for this conversation to go, so consider this my last reply on the matter. Enjoy the draft.
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