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Post by IrishMike on May 1, 2021 18:51:54 GMT -5
But Mike, who cares what they believe after 3 years of utter failure and lies? If someone told you they were going to fix your plumbing three years ago and they keep tinkering with it but it never gets better, or minimally better, but they say “don’t worry, it will be fixed this year” are you going to suddenly believe them? They didn’t trade Zeitler anyways, Gettleman let him go because he had an absurd contract his final year, which happened to be his worst year, and he had other big FA’s he needed to sign. Who cares what our coaching staff believes? I think all fans should care what they think.
Also Judge has been on this team for just over 1 year, He hasn't had 3 years of utter failure and lies. Honestly you sound crazy to me. You think people running this team are lying to you? Being a plumber and running an NFL franchise are not the same thing. A plumber can just order the part he needs. There is no store that sells OL for NFL teams to go get lol.
Yes, like I said all off season, this team (Joe Judge included) views their OL situation very differently than you and most of the fan base. No sense fighting about it. We will see what happens.
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Post by TEM on May 1, 2021 18:52:34 GMT -5
I agree with they need to gel. I a not a fan of "it was not ignored" or "it was addressed" statements This is just my opinion. If your QB is getting wacked to often, Hurried way too much ...... yeah the line was addressed and wasn't ignored. But it is not showing to be fixed. I am a firm believer that the offensive line needs a conveyor belt of talent. That means drafting them in every draft. ( 1 or 2) That way if one does not work out . You have an influx a of talent every year to be ready to replace the ones that do not meet expectations . I don't agree with this at all. The best offensive lines have stability. The ones whose lineups change every year are always the ones that are not very good. This is the first year that we’re going into where all 5 linemen were here last year. Until that happens . You do not sit on your hands. We are not the same 5 . This was our right side. Zeitler had 99% of the Offensive snaps at RG Fleming had 90% of the snaps at RT.
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Post by Nite on May 1, 2021 18:53:28 GMT -5
Once a Gator always a Gator But yeah seems they made a panic move with Etiene .. This is why though Eli Moore is a similar kind of player he could have taken Should have taken him..first name is Eli
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Post by McCherry on May 1, 2021 19:07:36 GMT -5
I don't agree with this at all. The best offensive lines have stability. The ones whose lineups change every year are always the ones that are not very good. This is the first year that we’re going into where all 5 linemen were here last year. Until that happens . You do not sit on your hands. We are not the same 5 . This was our right side. Zeitler had 99% of the Offensive snaps at RG Fleming had 90% of the snaps at RT. All 5 played last year, they're all familiar with each other. The chemistry is everything. Hernandez is the only one at a new position. Which I think will be better for him on the right side. Adding a rookie from this draft doesn't make us better in the short term. You don't just stockpile drafts picks on the OL. Nobody does that as a successful formula.
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Post by TEM on May 1, 2021 19:29:54 GMT -5
Until that happens . You do not sit on your hands. We are not the same 5 . This was our right side. Zeitler had 99% of the Offensive snaps at RG Fleming had 90% of the snaps at RT. All 5 played last year. They're all familiar with each other. Hernandez is the only one at a new position. Which I think will be better for him on the right side. Adding a rookie from this draft doesn't make us better in the short term. You don't just stockpile drafts picks on the OL. Nobody does that. Lemieux and Peart are are 3rd and 5th round picks . That is a lot of faith with no insurance policy for a guard I am ok with Solder stepping in if needed. If Lemieux is a turnstile as he was last year. Who do you replace him with? At least with a Draft pick used on a guard . We have an option . Outside of Solder . Who is our depth? I'll tell you PS players. If Lemieux sucks we are stuck with him. Or if one of them gets hurt. Using one draft pick gives us option that is not an uber driver . God I hope I am wrong. After solder . this is it Zach Fulton Kenny Wiggins Chad Slade Jackson Barton Kyle Murphy Uber Drivers Don't give me Our O-line is going to be fine. This is our Achilles' heel.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 1, 2021 19:58:50 GMT -5
Imatobebhe didn't get drafted?
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Post by GameTime on May 1, 2021 20:04:09 GMT -5
Welp, that was interesting... So far we have; - CBs coming out of our asses - A shiny brand new WR that could surprise some folks - A coupla LBs w names I can't pronounce (unless I'm sneezing) - A some picks for next year (good thing) So'k so fa so good...but kiddos we are missing something, just can't put my finger on it.. I am shocked too but I can only surmise that, Judge and company, feels the OL will be good enough. Prior to the draft I was figuring Smith or Slater which ever one they could get and them Parsons as a back up plan. Didnt anticipate the trade back right after Smith was gone.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 1, 2021 20:05:44 GMT -5
Welp, that was interesting... So far we have; - CBs coming out of our asses - A shiny brand new WR that could surprise some folks - A coupla LBs w names I can't pronounce (unless I'm sneezing) - A some picks for next year (good thing) So'k so fa so good...but kiddos we are missing something, just can't put my finger on it.. I am shocked too but I can only surmise that, Judge and company, feels the OL will be good enough. Prior to the draft I was figuring Smith or Slater which ever one they could get and them Parsons as a back up plan. Didnt anticipate the trade back right after Smith was gone. That went poof instantly huh....
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Post by Nite on May 1, 2021 20:08:28 GMT -5
Welp, that was interesting... So far we have; - CBs coming out of our asses - A shiny brand new WR that could surprise some folks - A coupla LBs w names I can't pronounce (unless I'm sneezing) - A some picks for next year (good thing) So'k so fa so good...but kiddos we are missing something, just can't put my finger on it.. I am shocked too but I can only surmise that, Judge and company, feels the OL will be good enough. Prior to the draft I was figuring Smith or Slater which ever one they could get and them Parsons as a back up plan. Didnt anticipate the trade back right after Smith was gone. They may be betting on roster cuts during camps and pre-season. Perhaps some FAs floating around. Hope to heck they have a plan
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Post by GameTime on May 1, 2021 20:08:41 GMT -5
I am shocked too but I can only surmise that, Judge and company, feels the OL will be good enough. Prior to the draft I was figuring Smith or Slater which ever one they could get and them Parsons as a back up plan. Didnt anticipate the trade back right after Smith was gone. That went poof instantly huh.... so pissed at the Smith steal. Like the extra picks, Ojulari, Toney. The other picks I am not up on yet. I guess since they have the green light from the coahcing staff I will not piss and moan about the OL until deemed necessary!!!
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Post by GameTime on May 1, 2021 20:09:53 GMT -5
I am shocked too but I can only surmise that, Judge and company, feels the OL will be good enough. Prior to the draft I was figuring Smith or Slater which ever one they could get and them Parsons as a back up plan. Didnt anticipate the trade back right after Smith was gone. They may be betting on roster cuts during camps and pre-season. Perhaps some FAs floating around. Hope to heck they have a plan They may be showing their plan. Anyone they get from here on out will be camp bodies with maybe one or two hoping to compete.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 1, 2021 20:11:29 GMT -5
That went poof instantly huh.... so pissed at the Smith steal. Like the extra picks, Ojulari, Toney. The other picks I am not up on yet. I guess since they have the green light from the coahcing staff I will not piss and moan about the OL until deemed necessary!!! Yep They said they had guys targeted but they were taken ahead of them And I'm guessing after it happened in the 3rd before the trade up they just litterally punted till UDFA season opened ....
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Post by GameTime on May 1, 2021 20:16:58 GMT -5
so pissed at the Smith steal. Like the extra picks, Ojulari, Toney. The other picks I am not up on yet. I guess since they have the green light from the coahcing staff I will not piss and moan about the OL until deemed necessary!!! Yep They said they had guys targeted but they were taken ahead of them And I'm guessing after it happened in the 3rd before the trade up they just litterally punted till UDFA season opened .... they obviously wanted a playmaker as a priority and then they couldn't pass up Oljilari. Surprised at the 3rd round but DG the value just wasnt there compared to how they graded Ribinson for the defense. DG did say in an interview just because you dont draft for a particular position doesnt mean you are necessarily happy with that position on your roster. Its all about the value on the board.
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Post by Nite on May 1, 2021 20:20:29 GMT -5
And yet I have 66% warning for nothing remotely close to this Shows you how much they love you GL
Also, gotta remember Fbomb is a made guy here..He can get away with stuff you know.. (for some reason I'm in the mood for a cannoli..)
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Post by giantlegacy on May 1, 2021 20:23:42 GMT -5
And yet I have 66% warning for nothing remotely close to this Shows you how much they love you GL
Also, gotta remember Fbomb is a made guy here..He can get away with stuff you know.. (for some reason I'm in the mood for a cannoli..)
I'm not referring to F bomb It's the ........ he was responding to
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Post by vinnie on May 1, 2021 20:34:38 GMT -5
Based on what Dave Gettleman has said he would do with this line and what he’s actually done with this line wince he got here, yes I would say I would have handled it better. Laugh all you want but any idiot could see how bad our O line was when he took over yet he still used a second overall pick on a RB with NO O line to run behind. That right there was a clear indication of how bad he is at evaluating O line talent. What was his solution? Set a new record for LT’s salary for a below average LT who never even made a pro bowl but instead, set season records for pressures allowed. And the excuse was “there was no one else” which I’ve already covered how ridiculous that excuse is. He then drafts Hernandez who has sone nothing but regress since his rookie year. I don’t care what the analysis said about Hernandez at the time, that’s why good GM’s find value and not just look at general consensus rankings, any of us could do that. So he failed there as well. The there’s the multiple mistakes like Oma, paying him 15 mil for 3 years and cutting him half way through the season. Halapio, Pulley, not moving Flowers to guard which a lot of people suggested (maybe that was the coach) but it’s been mistake after mistake after mistake. Now we roll into next season with two vets that have more than 1 year experience. Both have regressed and one was benched for a rookie while the other was in the top of the league for pressures allowed last time he played 2 years ago. If Solder isn’t the starter, then we will have 4 of 5 O lineman who it’s their second year and only one has 1st round talent but failed well short of expectations and Gates is good. Then we have Peart, no idea what we have there but he didn’t get a lot of playing time, even considering COVID, and Lemieux who gave up a league high 25 pressures and 10? sacks last year. Don’t forget we have a QB with no pocket presence who has also been under constant pressure since he became a starter and leagues the league in turnovers since 2019. Our defense could have used a little help but our O line needed it more. I would have been happy with just one plug and play guard which could have easily been found in the 2nd or 3rd rounds. Even most people on this site kept hoping and saying we would eventually draft one, but nope. Now we’re going into roll this season with the same players and keep our fingers crossed that they ALL improve even more than at the end of last season which was still well in the bottom 10 of the league. That’s insanity. If we had one good CB, one ok CB and no CB depth but just signed 2 well regarded O lineman in FA and had some O line depth, would it be smart to completely ignore the CB group and spend a few more picks on the O line? I don’t care that they just spent a few picks on the O line last year. As of now, Thomas as been the worst of the big 4 but he may be good. Lemieux was a 5th round pick and is playing like it, maybe even worse considering his pass blocking, Gates is good, Hernandez definitely hasn’t been 2nd round material and we have no idea about Peart but based on the past 3 years of DG’s “priority” I don’t have any faith until he gets out there and proves it. 2nd question) As I said, if we drafted at least one plug and play guard I would have had no problems and they still could have “gelled” but how much are they going to gel anyways from last year when half of them didn’t even play together (Peart, Solder, Hernandez)? The only ones who played together most of the season were Thomas, Lemieux and Gates and one of those is a complete liability. Let me ask you this? We haven’t had a decent O line in over a decade, and when Gettleman took over he said fixing the O line was his first priority which was ~4 years ago. As of last year, they were still bottom ten in the league. Is it your assertion that you trust they know what they’re doing? Would you keep taking your car back to the same mechanic for the same problem for 4 years after he keeps claiming to have fixed it or at some point are you going to be upset and go somewhere else? A simple "yes" would have sufficed. I stopped reading after that. Well perhaps you should have stated you wanted a yes or no question. You’ve asked the same questions so many times, that I tried to clarify and simplify as much as possible which is why it took so long. No wonder you don’t understand, you have a reading comprehension problem and/or are too lazy and disrespectful to read someones reply to a question you asked. Let me dumb this down for you. Will I answer any more of your questions? No.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 20:49:59 GMT -5
so pissed at the Smith steal. Like the extra picks, Ojulari, Toney. The other picks I am not up on yet. I guess since they have the green light from the coahcing staff I will not piss and moan about the OL until deemed necessary!!! Yep They said they had guys targeted but they were taken ahead of them And I'm guessing after it happened in the 3rd before the trade up they just litterally punted till UDFA season opened .... Which proves that they did want to improve the line, and they realize they need to improve the line, and are not in some echo chamber in regards to the OL...value just wan't there and I appreciate the BPA mentality. This at least gives me hope that they still understand the weak guard spot, and unproven RT... They did suggest the Giants inquired about moving up for Pitts, and Sewell...so yeah...they understand they need to improve it.
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Post by vinnie on May 1, 2021 20:50:38 GMT -5
Until that happens . You do not sit on your hands. We are not the same 5 . This was our right side. Zeitler had 99% of the Offensive snaps at RG Fleming had 90% of the snaps at RT. All 5 played last year, they're all familiar with each other. The chemistry is everything. Hernandez is the only one at a new position. Which I think will be better for him on the right side. Adding a rookie from this draft doesn't make us better in the short term. You don't just stockpile drafts picks on the OL. Nobody does that as a successful formula. I’m quite sure we could have found a rookie guard who didn’t give up the most pressures and sacks in the league. And what if the O line sucks again this year, do we give DJ another free pass and hope the guys we have improve on their third year? Because according to you, if it sucks again, drafting a rookie next year won’t help anyways. That would leave us trying to find a FA with a tight salary cap and we’ve all seen how stellar DG is at signing overpriced FA’s. Listen, I’m not saying with 100% certainty that the O line will suck. I’m just saying we are very thin on the O line, it was a disaster last year (even at the end of the season it wasn’t good), there are legitimate concerns about every player but Gates, for over 10 years this line has been average to bad, and last but not least this was supposed to be the first positional group fixed 4 years ago and it’s still our weakest. I understand there’s nothing we can do about it but just as some fans get excited and talk about players we drafted when we have no idea how they’ll do, some of are shocked, disappointed and concerned about what our O line will do. Apparently, some people have a problem with that though, it all has to be rainbows and unicorns and ignoring facts.
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Post by jb456 on May 1, 2021 20:53:41 GMT -5
Respectively disagree. The Giants drafted Thomas, Peart and Lemieux in 2020. The draft is a crapshoot and even if only your top 3 picks hit, thats a successful draft. Banking on all 3 of your Oline picks to hit, including a 5th rounder, is negligence. The hit rate for a starter in the 5th on the Oline is about 16 percent. A little more than 1 in 6. If you throw in the fact that Hernandez was never good then you start to understand my logic. Probability and performance are not on the Giants side. We have seen this movie before and know the ending.... I doubt that the Giants are evaluating based on stats. They work with these guys every day and are able to project. It's obvious they have way more confidence in the players they have than the fan base. I mean, we flat out ignored the oline in the draft. That has to tell you something. Joe doesn't strike me as the type of coach who overlooks weakness. I know, that's why this was so shocking. Pretty much every one here wanted the Giants to draft at least 1 guard. Lets be real, forget stats. Thomas looked good by the end of year, Peart flashed and Lemieux wasn't good. Hitting 2 of 3 is very good. The Giants lost a good guard. Wouldn't it be prudent to replace your best guard by far that you lost in FA? Zeitler is way better than Hernandez and a world better than Lemieux. At a minimum, you think they bring in some competition? Im sure there are many more thinking what im writing vs those who think everything is awesome. Oh well, Ive beat beat this dead horse into dust. Im not going to continue stating the obvious. I hope im wrong, I just don't want to see Barkley getting blown up behind the LOS 50 percent of the time and Jones not having time ro throw to these shinny new WRs.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 1, 2021 20:53:51 GMT -5
Yep They said they had guys targeted but they were taken ahead of them And I'm guessing after it happened in the 3rd before the trade up they just litterally punted till UDFA season opened .... Which proves that they did want to improve the line, and they realize they need to improve the line, and are not in some echo chamber in regards to the OL...value just wan't there and I appreciate the BPA mentality. This at least gives me hope that they still understand the weak guard spot, and unproven RT... They did suggest the Giants inquired about moving up for Pitts, and Sewell...so yeah...they understand they need to improve it. My gut tells me they have another move coming Trai Turner is out there We have a glut of mid round picks to pry a guy off a roster that just drafted a guy if we have to I'm not exactly happy we went ofer this draft at this position myself ...
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Post by Miked1958 on May 1, 2021 20:54:32 GMT -5
Well Bama LB Dylan Moses did not get drafted and Urban quickly signed him as an UDFA. Bama beat him enough times to know Saban puts out good talent
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Post by Roosevelt on May 1, 2021 21:22:13 GMT -5
Welp, that was interesting... So far we have; - CBs coming out of our asses - A shiny brand new WR that could surprise some folks - A coupla LBs w names I can't pronounce (unless I'm sneezing) - A some picks for next year (good thing) So'k so fa so good...but kiddos we are missing something, just can't put my finger on it..
It amazes me how the average fan cannot see what the organization and I see.
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Post by Sarcasman on May 1, 2021 21:59:54 GMT -5
What OL pick did you want us to make instead of the guys that we drafted? I'm not sure he has an answer. We just drafted 3 olinemen last year. Let them grow together and develop some cohesiveness instead of replacing them. At least that's how I feel about it. I know that I might be in the minority, but I feel that this unit will be good to go this upcoming season. I like that Judge has invested in coaches. He must believe he has the pieces and the leadership to field a good OL. If he's wrong, it's just a repeat of 2012-2020.
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Post by Sarcasman on May 1, 2021 22:03:43 GMT -5
Quote of the draft from BBV "Gettleman has gaslighted the entire fan base this draft,between the trades,taking a smallish WR over an edge,not taking an O lineman,getting an edge rusher at 50 some wanted at 11,congrats " Imagine a NFL GM not telling the press the truth. I'm shocked.
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2021 22:13:09 GMT -5
A simple "yes" would have sufficed. I stopped reading after that. Well perhaps you should have stated you wanted a yes or no question. You’ve asked the same questions so many times, that I tried to clarify and simplify as much as possible which is why it took so long. No wonder you don’t understand, you have a reading comprehension problem and/or are too lazy and disrespectful to read someones reply to a question you asked. Let me dumb this down for you. Will I answer any more of your questions? No. Once you said "yes", there was no need to read any further. Any inkling of credibility was gone in that second. Everything else instantly became just the rantings of a delusional mind. You, yourself, admitted that such a statement was worthy of a laugh. Of which, I can assure you, was had.
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Post by giantlegacy on May 1, 2021 22:41:47 GMT -5
Quote of the draft from BBV "Gettleman has gaslighted the entire fan base this draft,between the trades,taking a smallish WR over an edge,not taking an O lineman,getting an edge rusher at 50 some wanted at 11,congrats " Imagine a NFL GM not telling the press the truth. I'm shocked. Actually Reading between the lines he did We want to add playmakers Didn't get the 2 we were most often linked to but got a clone of sorts of Waddle We are looking at edge rushers Grabbed 2 Open to trade back The clues were all there where we were going Look at the players linked to us..even got one of them in tbe 2nd. Notice what position had nobody linked to us We all wanted Slater...it started to look by last weekend it was going to be an excersise in wishful thinking even if he did fall to us as he did that it wasn't going to happen
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Post by DonnieYen on May 1, 2021 22:47:46 GMT -5
Im Happy with the draft we got A wide reciever two edge rushers and a CB and RB that Running back reminds me of Brandon Jacobs with speed! he is a big guy! Thunder and Lightning part 2!
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Post by Nite on May 1, 2021 23:07:22 GMT -5
Welp, that was interesting... So far we have; - CBs coming out of our asses - A shiny brand new WR that could surprise some folks - A coupla LBs w names I can't pronounce (unless I'm sneezing) - A some picks for next year (good thing) So'k so fa so good...but kiddos we are missing something, just can't put my finger on it..
It amazes me how the average fan cannot see what the organization and I see.
Hey, diddle diddle..
The cat and the fiddle
Winds up in the middle..
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 2, 2021 6:08:25 GMT -5
I'm not sure he has an answer. We just drafted 3 olinemen last year. Let them grow together and develop some cohesiveness instead of replacing them. At least that's how I feel about it. I know that I might be in the minority, but I feel that this unit will be good to go this upcoming season. I like that Judge has invested in coaches. He must believe he has the pieces and the leadership to field a good OL. If he's wrong, it's just a repeat of 2012-2020. I wonder if it's because we drafted 3 last year OR if, like the Patriots who rarely have big name probowl type OLmen, they just use a plug and play theory, which for them is helped tremendously by a quick trigger and brilliant understanding of where to go by Tom Brady.
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Post by GameTime on May 2, 2021 6:14:41 GMT -5
I like that Judge has invested in coaches. He must believe he has the pieces and the leadership to field a good OL. If he's wrong, it's just a repeat of 2012-2020. I wonder if it's because we drafted 3 last year OR if, like the Patriots who rarely have big name probowl type OLmen, they just use a plug and play theory, which for them is helped tremendously by a quick trigger and brilliant understanding of where to go by Tom Brady. I am not sure what Judges OL philosophy is but you cant compare having Brady for a QB because he is the ultimate outlier. Defenses have to worry about Brady more than any other player on the field. Not many teams have that luxury. DG kept talking about "value" in terms of the draft. When asked specifically about the OL he said the value just wasnt there. Maybe Judge agrees with that as well.
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