njsean
Special Teams
Posts: 449
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Post by njsean on May 19, 2021 15:38:40 GMT -5
Had a conversation with a guy at work about this.
Do you think fan bases feel differently about Super Bowls won by late career team switching QBs?
Do you think it feels more special when it’s a home grown or originally drafted boy?
Do you think Tampa cared that it was Brady - a guy who will enter the hall as a patriot - that won them their championship? Would winning it with Winston have felt better?
Obviously Elway’s two wins are more meaningful to Denver than likely any QB in that town could hope - but do you think Peyton’s victory still brings a smile?
Obviously it’s not happening, but if Rodgers came here in and won - I think it wouldn’t satisfy the way it would if DJ did it. Anyone agree or is a championship a championship and you’re just happy regardless?
And then there’s Brees and the Saints. Not originally their guy, but I don’t think they cared. I think they wouldn’t want it any other way. But he was a guy they took a chance on coming off injury. Not a sure thing.
Also interesting that it’s exclusively QB I feel this about. Any other mercenary FA pick up that puts us over the top doesn’t even factor into consideration for how much I relish the victory. Anyway. Bored Wednesday thoughts.
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Post by TCHOF on May 19, 2021 15:44:54 GMT -5
Interesting question ... I think that there is some truth to the fan base feeling differently about Super Bowl wins.
Although I think that would only apply to teams that have multiple SB wins. In other words, they might feel better about the SB win they got with the home-grown QB rather than the one that they got with a mercenary QB.
Teams that achieve their first SB win with a mercenary QB will just be happy to get one.
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Post by Morehead State on May 19, 2021 15:47:11 GMT -5
Interesting question ... I think that there is some truth to the fan base feeling differently about Super Bowl wins. Although I think that would only apply to teams that have multiple SB wins. In other words, they might feel better about the SB win they got with the home-grown QB rather than the one that they got with a mercenary QB. Teams that achieve their first SB win with a mercenary QB will just be happy to get one. I'd rather take my chances with Daniel Jones....or the next guy we draft next year.
It would feel too contrived if we traded for Rodgers or even Wilson. Free agency is one thing, but this wouldn't feel right.
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Post by TCHOF on May 19, 2021 15:51:07 GMT -5
Interesting question ... I think that there is some truth to the fan base feeling differently about Super Bowl wins. Although I think that would only apply to teams that have multiple SB wins. In other words, they might feel better about the SB win they got with the home-grown QB rather than the one that they got with a mercenary QB. Teams that achieve their first SB win with a mercenary QB will just be happy to get one. I'd rather take my chances with Daniel Jones....or the next guy we draft next year.
It would feel too contrived if we traded for Rodgers or even Wilson. Free agency is one thing, but this wouldn't feel right.
The question is would winning with Rodgers be better than not winning with Jones? My answer is yes, but you're right ... it would feel weird. Certainly not comparable to any other SB win.
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Post by McCherry on May 19, 2021 15:52:12 GMT -5
Hometown guy, always. In the case of Brees, he's a Saint. Guy spent his whole career there, didn't really become a standout QB before he left SD. It's different with Brady, He will always be considered a Patriot. I don't think that matters to TB, the Giants are different.
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njsean
Special Teams
Posts: 449
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Post by njsean on May 19, 2021 15:52:27 GMT -5
Teams that achieve their first SB win with a mercenary QB will just be happy to get one. Yeah I agree with this. It made me think of Favre and the Vikings. They would have loved that win had they got it. Wouldn’t have even factored into their mind that they spent most of his career hating him. May have even added to it.
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Post by Morehead State on May 19, 2021 15:53:21 GMT -5
I'd rather take my chances with Daniel Jones....or the next guy we draft next year.
It would feel too contrived if we traded for Rodgers or even Wilson. Free agency is one thing, but this wouldn't feel right.
The question is would winning with Rodgers be better than not winning with Jones? My answer is yes, but you're right ... it would feel weird. Certainly not comparable to any other SB win. It might be slightly better in the short term, but it would feel tainted. Aaron Rodgers ain't a Giant. I don't care if he puts on the uniform. He's just not a Giant.
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Post by Jomo on May 19, 2021 15:56:17 GMT -5
Interesting question ... I think that there is some truth to the fan base feeling differently about Super Bowl wins. Although I think that would only apply to teams that have multiple SB wins. In other words, they might feel better about the SB win they got with the home-grown QB rather than the one that they got with a mercenary QB. Teams that achieve their first SB win with a mercenary QB will just be happy to get one. I'd rather take my chances with Daniel Jones....or the next guy we draft next year.
It would feel too contrived if we traded for Rodgers or even Wilson. Free agency is one thing, but this wouldn't feel right.
More than anything else I think it is the amount of time you spend watching a guy grow and develop and succeed that creates the bond. It is not a draftee vs. mercenary thing. It is like putting time into a relationship. Those become the most profound connections versus a one night fling. Memorable maybe but not as satisfying in the end as a long term relationship complete with its ups and downs..
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njsean
Special Teams
Posts: 449
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Post by njsean on May 19, 2021 15:56:23 GMT -5
The question is would winning with Rodgers be better than not winning with Jones? My answer is yes, but you're right ... it would feel weird. Certainly not comparable to any other SB win. It might be slightly better in the short term, but it would feel tainted. Aaron Rodgers ain't a Giant. I don't care if he puts on the uniform. He's just not a Giant. Yeah that’s my feeling. Short term. Like. Does even anyone in Denver smile over Peytons victory and reminisce like Colts fans do? Or do they just enjoy it and it’s over. Hell, even without 42, thinking about 46 still gives me a grin.
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Post by Roswell on May 19, 2021 16:10:01 GMT -5
Let's say Jones suffered an injury in the first game and Rodgers suddenly became a Giant, he'd be a Giant in my eyes. And if they won the SB, after all we've all been thru the last 9 years, I'm not going to say, "Yeah but...they didn't draft him."
If they got Rodgers I think they'd be one of the favorites to go to the Super Bowl in the NFC. That's good enough for me.
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Post by Morehead State on May 19, 2021 16:12:28 GMT -5
It might be slightly better in the short term, but it would feel tainted. Aaron Rodgers ain't a Giant. I don't care if he puts on the uniform. He's just not a Giant. Yeah that’s my feeling. Short term. Like. Does even anyone in Denver smile over Peytons victory and reminisce like Colts fans do? Or do they just enjoy it and it’s over. Hell, even without 42, thinking about 46 still gives me a grin. I think the last Bronco SB win is still a big positive for them because it was the defense that won it for them.
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Post by Morehead State on May 19, 2021 16:14:00 GMT -5
Let's say Jones suffered an injury in the first game and Rodgers suddenly became a Giant, he'd be a Giant in my eyes. And if they won the SB, after all we've all been thru the last 9 years, I'm not going to say, "Yeah but...they didn't draft him." If they got Rodgers I think they'd be one of the favorites to go to the Super Bowl in the NFC. That's good enough for me. He's a Packer. It would be such a sell out to trade for him. At least that's how I feel.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 16:20:32 GMT -5
I don't know...Mark Messier is always an Oiler, but he will always be a NY Ranger, and a God like figure... to every fan who sat in the blue seats for years.
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Post by Morehead State on May 19, 2021 16:24:13 GMT -5
I don't know...Mark Messier is always an Oiler, but he will always be a NY Ranger, and a God like figure... to every fan who sat in the blue seats for years. I think NFL QB is different.
That is the face of the franchise.
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Post by Zimonami on May 19, 2021 16:38:27 GMT -5
What mikedcherry said on the difference between Brady and Brees. Brees is a Saint... Brady is a Mercenary.
In '90 I was thrilled with the SB win, and proud of the great job Hoss did, but I always felt, "I wish it had been Simms". He was our man from '79 when he was drafted, and had a great SB win in '86..... and he brought us to 11-3 in that '90 season. More than anything I knew that 2nd SB win for him would probably be sure entry into the HOF... and I was probably right. If Eli gets in, that 2nd SB win will be the difference.
One more thought... IMO we win the '90 Buffalo SB easy, just like against the Bronco's in '86, if Phil is the QB. No last second melodramatics with "Wide Right".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 16:39:04 GMT -5
I don't know...Mark Messier is always an Oiler, but he will always be a NY Ranger, and a God like figure... to every fan who sat in the blue seats for years. I think NFL QB is different.
That is the face of the franchise.
I believe Mark Messier was the "extreme" face of the franchise, albeit a short amount of time. Gretzky was more of a soldier of fortune IMHO vs Messier...but when you have not won since 1940, that could have made his 94 run that much more special in what he accomplished. Leetch was the face of the franchise his career during that span ...so your point is taken. And yes, the QB will always be the face and the most important player on any team...
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Post by repeatchamps on May 19, 2021 16:42:11 GMT -5
I don't know...Mark Messier is always an Oiler, but he will always be a NY Ranger, and a God like figure... to every fan who sat in the blue seats for years. I don't know...Mark Messier is always an Oiler, but he will always be a NY Ranger, and a God like figure... to every fan who sat in the blue seats for years. I think NFL QB is different.
That is the face of the franchise.
I agree. While one could argue Messier was the face of the franchise, at the time he was more "a" face of the franchise. As important as Messier's leadership was in landing the 1994 Stanley Cup title, he wasn't the only key face during that time. Leetch and Richter, one can argue, were already the faces of the franchise at that time and were perennial playoff contenders and significant participants well before Messier got here but tis true before Messier they (as a big NY Rangers fan myself, painfully) just could never solve the Penguins nor the Canadiens.
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Post by Nick6475 on May 19, 2021 17:04:24 GMT -5
For me it is about expectations. The Eli SBs were so great and memorable because at the beginning of those two seasons and most of the regular season I did not have hopes they would win anything. Rodgers could never top that because I would expect the Giants to be there if he was the QB.
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Post by Roswell on May 19, 2021 17:06:34 GMT -5
Let's say Jones suffered an injury in the first game and Rodgers suddenly became a Giant, he'd be a Giant in my eyes. And if they won the SB, after all we've all been thru the last 9 years, I'm not going to say, "Yeah but...they didn't draft him." If they got Rodgers I think they'd be one of the favorites to go to the Super Bowl in the NFC. That's good enough for me. He's a Packer. It would be such a sell out to trade for him. At least that's how I feel. He's definitely a Packer. And if he got traded to the Giants, he'd be a Giant. He's never done anything to alienate this fan base so I'd be rooting for him just like I rooted for Simms and Eli. If people put him in the Hoss category, I could see that. And if he delivered a ring or two, he would encourage many converts. Even you.
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Post by Roswell on May 19, 2021 17:08:45 GMT -5
I don't know...Mark Messier is always an Oiler, but he will always be a NY Ranger, and a God like figure... to every fan who sat in the blue seats for years. Great point.
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Post by Roswell on May 19, 2021 17:11:04 GMT -5
I think NFL QB is different.
That is the face of the franchise.
I believe Mark Messier was the "extreme" face of the franchise, albeit a short amount of time. Gretzky was more of a soldier of fortune IMHO vs Messier...but when you have not won since 1940, that could have made his 94 run that much more special in what he accomplished. Leetch was the face of the franchise his career during that span ...so your point is taken. And yes, the QB will always be the face and the most important player on any team... There's some exceptions. I thought LT was the face of the franchise. Mean Joe Greene. Ray Lewis. Vonn Miller.
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Post by GameTime on May 19, 2021 17:16:42 GMT -5
Looks better for in coming vet, Rogers for exampe, and not great for the Giants.
In Tampa its like....Yeah we won but it was with Brady
" * " with a footnote....lol
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njsean
Special Teams
Posts: 449
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Post by njsean on May 19, 2021 17:20:10 GMT -5
What mikedcherry said on the difference between Brady and Brees. Brees is a Saint... Brady is a Mercenary. In '90 I was thrilled with the SB win, and proud of the great job Hoss did, but I always felt, "I wish it had been Simms". He was our man from '79 when he was drafted, and had a great SB win in '86..... and he brought us to 11-3 in that '90 season. More than anything I knew that 2nd SB win for him would probably be sure entry into the HOF... and I was probably right. If Eli gets in, that 2nd SB win will be the difference. One more thought... IMO we win the '90 Buffalo SB easy, just like against the Bronco's in '86, if Phil is the QB. No last second melodramatics with "Wide Right". I think the 90 super bowl still satisfies without Simms because of the necessary “magic” and great defense required to pull it off. Hoss wasn’t brought in to replace Simms - we, as a team, won in spite not because of him. And that’s great and supplies a lasting impact for the fans. Was it a little bittersweet? Sure. But still sweet enough.
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njsean
Special Teams
Posts: 449
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Post by njsean on May 19, 2021 17:21:51 GMT -5
Looks better for in coming vet, Rogers for exampe, and not great for the Giants. In Tampa its like....Yeah we won but it was with Brady " * " with a footnote....lol Exactlyyyy. Brady won his seventh. Not Tampa won its 2nd. Brady fans rejoice. Buccaneer fans - this champagne tastes like ashes. Can we have another?
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Post by Zimonami on May 19, 2021 17:25:16 GMT -5
What mikedcherry said on the difference between Brady and Brees. Brees is a Saint... Brady is a Mercenary. In '90 I was thrilled with the SB win, and proud of the great job Hoss did, but I always felt, "I wish it had been Simms". He was our man from '79 when he was drafted, and had a great SB win in '86..... and he brought us to 11-3 in that '90 season. More than anything I knew that 2nd SB win for him would probably be sure entry into the HOF... and I was probably right. If Eli gets in, that 2nd SB win will be the difference. One more thought... IMO we win the '90 Buffalo SB easy, just like against the Bronco's in '86, if Phil is the QB. No last second melodramatics with "Wide Right". I think the 90 super bowl still satisfies without Simms because of the necessary “magic” and great defense required to pull it off. Hoss wasn’t brought in to replace Simms - we, as a team, won in spite not because of him. And that’s great and supplies a lasting impact for the fans. Was it a little bittersweet? Sure. But still sweet enough. Oh, I agree... as I said, I was proud of Hoss. But, the first one ever, and Phil being the MVP of XX!, I wanted it to ba aa 2nd for him. But, it'll always be sweet. I went to it with my 22 yr. old son. It was a total team effort and a great day for OJ Anderson. He mentored Hoss from the moment phil got hurt, and he had a great game for us.. And, what can you say about the D. Belichick's schemes were great, sometimes only having 1 or 2 D linemen on the LOS. That D held the high scoring Bills to 19.
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 19, 2021 17:27:34 GMT -5
I'd be very happy if Rodgers came here and won us a SB.
I'd be very happy if DJ won us a SB.
I'd be very happy if Eli came out of retirement and won us a SB.
I'd be very happy if Tebow came here and won us a SB.
Point being for me, as always, is winning. Don't care who wins it for us.
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Post by DandyDon on May 19, 2021 18:18:25 GMT -5
I'd be very happy if Rodgers came here and won us a SB. I'd be very happy if DJ won us a SB. I'd be very happy if Eli came out of retirement and won us a SB. I'd be very happy if Tebow came here and won us a SB. Point being for me, as always, is winning. Don't care who wins it for us. I agree. But mostly because I know it takes more than a good/great QB to win a ring. If a good QB puts us over the top I see little difference than a good wr or de. Just look at the last Superbowl. Brady obviously made a difference, but Mahomes wasn't ineffective because of Brady. He was ineffective because of the opposing d.
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Post by TheAnalyst on May 19, 2021 18:55:31 GMT -5
I'd be very happy if Rodgers came here and won us a SB. I'd be very happy if DJ won us a SB. I'd be very happy if Eli came out of retirement and won us a SB. I'd be very happy if Tebow came here and won us a SB. Point being for me, as always, is winning. Don't care who wins it for us. I agree. But mostly because I know it takes more than a good/great QB to win a ring. If a good QB puts us over the top I see little difference than a good wr or de. Just look at the last Superbowl. Brady obviously made a difference, but Mahomes wasn't ineffective because of Brady. He was ineffective because of the opposing d. I'd even say he was ineffective because of him losing his 2 starting OTs. Obviously the better your QB is, the more you can slack on talent elsewhere. That said, it will always be a team game. That Bucs team is stacked once again.
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Post by DandyDon on May 19, 2021 19:07:27 GMT -5
I agree. But mostly because I know it takes more than a good/great QB to win a ring. If a good QB puts us over the top I see little difference than a good wr or de. Just look at the last Superbowl. Brady obviously made a difference, but Mahomes wasn't ineffective because of Brady. He was ineffective because of the opposing d. I'd even day he was ineffective because of him losing his 2 starting OTs. Obviously the better your QB is, the more you can slack on talent elsewhere. That said, it will always be a team game. That Bucs team is stacked once again. I think we're saying the same thing. It obviously takes more than a good/great QB.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on May 19, 2021 19:50:39 GMT -5
I don't know. O'J. Anderson was a great RB for the Cards. He made most of his career stats as a Card. Hell he wasn't even a starter on the Giants squad. He was depth. But when he got his chance we fed him the ball over and over that SB run. Otis till this day considers himself a NY Giant. He gets applauded whenever he enters a room to speak to Giant fans as a hero.
Is it just a QB that's different ? Not sure how I would feel, But if Earl Morrow, Craig Morton, or Fran Tarkenton would have won a SB for us it would not be tainted to me.
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