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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 9:57:15 GMT -5
Daniel Jones theory Giants are banking on isn’t what it seems
Is “three” the new “two” when it comes to quarterback development?
From the time Dan Marino was named 1984 NFL MVP in his second season until recently, quarterbacks were expected to make their biggest improvements in Year 2. But the delayed Year 3 breakthroughs of Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield have NFL insiders rethinking the timeline.
The Giants are selling the narrative that fits their plan after Daniel Jones regressed in Year 2. The hopeless alternative is that the window has closed after Jones’ 8-18 record, 62.2 percent completion rate, 221 passing yards per game, 35 touchdowns, 39 turnovers and 84.1 quarterback rating over two seasons.
But has the rule of thumb really changed? One former general manager who believes it has suggested any quarterback introduced to new coaches and a new playbook amid the pandemic-restricted practice rules of 2020 — as Jones was — should get a total do-over in 2021.
Since Father Time didn’t stop, The Post analyzed the first three-year trajectories of the 20 quarterbacks drafted with top-12 picks from 2010-18. Removing five who were bona fide stars after two seasons and five whose third year was a total wash because of missed playing time offers this mixed bag of expectations for Jones: read more
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Post by Kruunch on Jul 10, 2021 13:49:46 GMT -5
Sam Darnold got traded after his third season. Mitch Trubisky 5th year option was declined. Josh Rosen was traded after one season. Teams aren’t hesitating to move on from their high draft pick quarterbacks anymore. The days of grooming them are all but gone.
Daniel Jones is playing for his job this year.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 10, 2021 14:30:11 GMT -5
Each situation stands on its own.
It was a article written to fill space.....like most are.
Every one of those QBs had a different OL, WR, RB, HC, OC, offensive scheme, veteran QB mentorship, strength of schedule, injury issues etc.
Way, way way too complicated to generalize. Nothing magical about year 2 or 3.
Let's simplify it and simply say that if we don't see a real move forward by DJ this year, we need to be in the market for a QB when the season is over.
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Post by TEM on Jul 10, 2021 14:41:27 GMT -5
He'll be fine . He is going to have his 1st 3500+ yard 25+TD season.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2021 14:49:22 GMT -5
Each situation stands on its own. It was a article written to fill space.....like most are. Every one of those QBs had a different OL, WR, RB, HC, OC, offensive scheme, veteran QB mentorship, strength of schedule, injury issues etc. Way, way way too complicated to generalize. Nothing magical about year 2 or 3. Let's simplify it and simply say that if we don't see a real move forward by DJ this year, we need to be in the market for a QB when the season is over.This year is amazingly important for our beloved Giants...winning year or big changes |
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 10, 2021 14:58:11 GMT -5
He'll be fine . He is going to have his 1st 3500+ yard 25+TD season. I'm thinking 4K 31 TDs .. Really bullish that he can be the top QB I thought he could be now that he has weapons and also think the line takes the next step to allow this |
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Post by TEM on Jul 10, 2021 15:05:45 GMT -5
He'll be fine . He is going to have his 1st 3500+ yard 25+TD season. I'm thinking 4K 31 TDs .. Really bullish that he can be the top QB I thought he could be now that he has weapons and also think the line takes the next step to allow this I could see that if the stars are in alignment. He has the weapons this year. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 15:50:11 GMT -5
He'll be fine . He is going to have his 1st 3500+ yard 25+TD season. I'm thinking 4K 31 TDs .. Really bullish that he can be the top QB I thought he could be now that he has weapons and also think the line takes the next step to allow this If all that good stuff happens he will be right around there I think especially if he stays healthy with the extra game. He starts the season against stingy pass defense with Denver have to look into the opponents. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 10, 2021 16:16:20 GMT -5
He'll be fine . He is going to have his 1st 3500+ yard 25+TD season. I'm thinking 4K 31 TDs .. Really bullish that he can be the top QB I thought he could be now that he has weapons and also think the line takes the next step to allow this Not that those numbers are that dynamic in a 17 game schedule It might still be a little more than I expect. Though I would love to see it. It would give me confidence and hope. 4K yds passing is less than 250 a game. 31 TD's is what 71/2 every 4 games ? This is the best chance Jones has had to accomplish this. And for the first time he has a chance to win. Winning and confidence build one another up. If he can reach these numbers and for God's sake lower his turnovers even 1/3 we will be scoring and our/his offense will actually be productive. For the love of God we will be scoring more than 17 pts per game. Now he just has to do it. |
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 10, 2021 16:21:32 GMT -5
One at least has to be concerned by what we've seen from Jones. Last year really wasn't good at all. My God the only big win we had was with Colt McCoy.
He needs vast improvement in 2021.
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 10, 2021 16:23:16 GMT -5
I'm thinking 4K 31 TDs .. Really bullish that he can be the top QB I thought he could be now that he has weapons and also think the line takes the next step to allow this If all that good stuff happens he will be right around there I think especially if he stays healthy with the extra game. He starts the season against stingy pass defense with Denver have to look into the opponents. If Saquon isn't ready to go this game vs Denver it's going to be very hard to beat these guys. Could be the best defense in football. Von Miller and Chubb coming from the ends, they might be better than WFT's Young and Sweat. Denver probably has the best secondary and definitely the 2 best starting safeties. Hopefully our defense comes ready to play and save us. Their QB has a lot to prove also. Unless they get Rodgers then all bets are off. |
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 10, 2021 16:26:14 GMT -5
If all that good stuff happens he will be right around there I think especially if he stays healthy with the extra game. He starts the season against stingy pass defense with Denver have to look into the opponents. If Saquon isn't ready to go this game vs Denver it's going to be very hard to beat these guys. Could be the best defense in football. Von Miller and Chubb coming from the ends, they might be better than WFT's Young and Sweat. Denver probably has the best secondary and definitely the 2 best starting safeties. Hopefully our defense comes ready to play and save us. Their QB has a lot to prove also. Unless they get Rodgers then all bets are off. .....and let's hope their QB isn't Aaron Rodgers. |
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Post by ThatGuyRich on Jul 10, 2021 16:29:21 GMT -5
If Saquon isn't ready to go this game vs Denver it's going to be very hard to beat these guys. Could be the best defense in football. Von Miller and Chubb coming from the ends, they might be better than WFT's Young and Sweat. Denver probably has the best secondary and definitely the 2 best starting safeties. Hopefully our defense comes ready to play and save us. Their QB has a lot to prove also. Unless they get Rodgers then all bets are off. .....and let's hope their QB isn't Aaron Rodgers. Morehead I want you to use all your powers that this doesn't happen to at least after the first game. |
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 10, 2021 16:30:38 GMT -5
.....and let's hope their QB isn't Aaron Rodgers. Morehead I want you to use all your powers that this doesn't happen to at least after the first game. Don't worry. It probably won't happen. |
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Post by TCHOF on Jul 10, 2021 17:23:35 GMT -5
I find Dunleavey to be one of the most annoying Giants writers out there. His voice alone makes you want to bang your head against a wall
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 20:14:32 GMT -5
Each situation stands on its own. It was a article written to fill space.....like most are. Every one of those QBs had a different OL, WR, RB, HC, OC, offensive scheme, veteran QB mentorship, strength of schedule, injury issues etc. Way, way way too complicated to generalize. Nothing magical about year 2 or 3. Let's simplify it and simply say that if we don't see a real move forward by DJ this year, we need to be in the market for a QB when the season is over.
As I see it, he was simply pointing out there is no modern precedent of year 3 being THE make it or break it season, while he gave some examples of QB's that stood out in their second season.
Each situation is different as you said, but the one thing we can agree on is this is Jones' year 2 in the same system and with the same coaches. And this year he didn't have to learn a new offense over Zoom.
In other words, there's reason for optimism.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 20:57:05 GMT -5
Each situation stands on its own. It was a article written to fill space.....like most are. Every one of those QBs had a different OL, WR, RB, HC, OC, offensive scheme, veteran QB mentorship, strength of schedule, injury issues etc. Way, way way too complicated to generalize. Nothing magical about year 2 or 3. Let's simplify it and simply say that if we don't see a real move forward by DJ this year, we need to be in the market for a QB when the season is over.
As I see it, he was simply pointing out there is no modern precedent of year 3 being THE make it or break it season, while he gave some examples of QB's that stood out in their second season.
Each situation is different as you said, but the one thing we can agree on is this is Jones' year 2 in the same system and with the same coaches. And this year he didn't have to learn a new offense over Zoom.
In other words, there's reason for optimism.
I think Jones the riddle will be solved in about 8 months they will have a true idea of what he is as a player and what flaws he has and wether they are fixable and if they want to spend the time fixing him. I believe he has what it takes . |
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 10, 2021 21:14:03 GMT -5
As I see it, he was simply pointing out there is no modern precedent of year 3 being THE make it or break it season, while he gave some examples of QB's that stood out in their second season.
Each situation is different as you said, but the one thing we can agree on is this is Jones' year 2 in the same system and with the same coaches. And this year he didn't have to learn a new offense over Zoom.
In other words, there's reason for optimism.
I think Jones the riddle will be solved in about 8 months they will have a true idea of what he is as a player and what flaws he has and wether they are fixable and if they want to spend the time fixing him. I believe he has what it takes . The most likely result is that he continues to be essentially what he's been. Usually after two years there isn't much of a riddle left. We fans are defying history and extending him an usual benefit of the doubt.
Maybe, deep down, we DO know what he is but don't want to admit it yet.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 10, 2021 21:30:17 GMT -5
I think Jones the riddle will be solved in about 8 months they will have a true idea of what he is as a player and what flaws he has and wether they are fixable and if they want to spend the time fixing him. I believe he has what it takes . The most likely result is that he continues to be essentially what he's been. Usually after two years there isn't much of a riddle left. We fans are defying history and extending him an usual benefit of the doubt.
Maybe, deep down, we DO know what he is but don't want to admit it yet.
I want to see him in the same system for 2 years and with better OL and WR play after that I will be more convinced about wether his fumbling issues are fixable wether he actually has issues getting the ball out, his guys were covered most of the time and his best in the backfield and WR were injured the last 2 year in Shep and Barkely, sooner they know the better moving on from a QB isn't what it used to be the sooner the better if they are sure, You sure don't want to be wrong and draft and train someones franchise QB for them. every situation is different Look at Josh Allen he was mess coming into the league but the Bills solidified everything around him he worked hard over came holding the ball and accuracy issues, I think having guys who can get open and catch helped a ton. he has one of the best 3rd down WRs in Beasly and a top 3 outside guy in Diggs to throw it to . |
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Post by Speedman on Jul 10, 2021 21:33:55 GMT -5
I think Jones the riddle will be solved in about 8 months they will have a true idea of what he is as a player and what flaws he has and wether they are fixable and if they want to spend the time fixing him. I believe he has what it takes . The most likely result is that he continues to be essentially what he's been. Usually after two years there isn't much of a riddle left. We fans are defying history and extending him an usual benefit of the doubt.
Maybe, deep down, we DO know what he is but don't want to admit it yet.
The fans wanted to run Simms out of town his first couple of years. I wasn’t watching football in Eli’s first couple of years but since then I heard that the fans felt the same way about Eli as they did Simms early on. |
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Post by Roosevelt on Jul 10, 2021 21:48:16 GMT -5
I think Jones the riddle will be solved in about 8 months they will have a true idea of what he is as a player and what flaws he has and wether they are fixable and if they want to spend the time fixing him. I believe he has what it takes . The most likely result is that he continues to be essentially what he's been. Usually after two years there isn't much of a riddle left. We fans are defying history and extending him an usual benefit of the doubt.
Maybe, deep down, we DO know what he is but don't want to admit it yet.
I'd say he earned the benefit of doubt based on the circumstances.
Now had he missed a final snap of a game because was off doing seifies with fans, there would be no discussion.
This kid deserves a mulligan as much as anyone.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 10, 2021 22:41:53 GMT -5
Each situation stands on its own. It was a article written to fill space.....like most are. Every one of those QBs had a different OL, WR, RB, HC, OC, offensive scheme, veteran QB mentorship, strength of schedule, injury issues etc. Way, way way too complicated to generalize. Nothing magical about year 2 or 3. Let's simplify it and simply say that if we don't see a real move forward by DJ this year, we need to be in the market for a QB when the season is over.
As I see it, he was simply pointing out there is no modern precedent of year 3 being THE make it or break it season, while he gave some examples of QB's that stood out in their second season.
Each situation is different as you said, but the one thing we can agree on is this is Jones' year 2 in the same system and with the same coaches. And this year he didn't have to learn a new offense over Zoom.
In other words, there's reason for optimism.
I am hopeful and optimistic but he needs to flip the script THIS YEAR. Actually there are several examples of later bloomers than year 3 but I have no interest in waiting around for that. |
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Post by SG88 on Jul 10, 2021 22:57:48 GMT -5
Sam Darnold got traded after his third season. Mitch Trubisky 5th year option was declined. Josh Rosen was traded after one season. Teams aren’t hesitating to move on from their high draft pick quarterbacks anymore. The days of grooming them are all but gone. Daniel Jones is playing for his job this year. Agreed 100%. Pretty much everything is in place for Jones to succeed. Continuity in the coaching staff, continuity on the oline, and some of the best weapons in the NFL. If he can't handle his business despite all of this, he will lose his job. |
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jul 11, 2021 8:14:31 GMT -5
Sam Darnold got traded after his third season. Mitch Trubisky 5th year option was declined. Josh Rosen was traded after one season. Teams aren’t hesitating to move on from their high draft pick quarterbacks anymore. The days of grooming them are all but gone. Daniel Jones is playing for his job this year. Why hold up the franchise like they used to they don't have to offenses are designed today for easy transfer from college to pro depending on the coordinator. I think thats why Judge dipped into the college ranks on both offense and defense this past year. Getting his ducks lined up because Graham and Garret might get oppertunities. |
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Post by jaymas on Jul 11, 2021 8:29:09 GMT -5
I think Jones the riddle will be solved in about 8 months they will have a true idea of what he is as a player and what flaws he has and wether they are fixable and if they want to spend the time fixing him. I believe he has what it takes . The most likely result is that he continues to be essentially what he's been. Usually after two years there isn't much of a riddle left. We fans are defying history and extending him an usual benefit of the doubt.
Maybe, deep down, we DO know what he is but don't want to admit it yet.
Tell that to Eli Manning, Ryan Tannehill, Josh Allen, Peyton Manning, Carson Wentz, Baker Mayfield, Brett Favre, etc. There are no standards for this. Two years, three years, doesn't matter. Jones has played 26 games, who he is, is not decided, just like all those other guys. |
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Post by GameTime on Jul 11, 2021 8:38:05 GMT -5
1) The NYGs did not add weapons just for Jones' sake. ALL QBs need these weapons not just Jones. No matter who the QB is/was they would have needed to add to the roster 100%
2) Jones has the tools be very good but has to over come one big major flaw which is pocket awareness. He gets that squared away the rest will fall into place.
3) History shows players can and do improve dramatically. That is not such a rarity.
I have big hope because being negative is useless at this point.
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Post by Morehead State on Jul 11, 2021 9:11:33 GMT -5
The most likely result is that he continues to be essentially what he's been. Usually after two years there isn't much of a riddle left. We fans are defying history and extending him an usual benefit of the doubt.
Maybe, deep down, we DO know what he is but don't want to admit it yet.
I'd say he earned the benefit of doubt based on the circumstances.
Now had he missed a final snap of a game because was off doing seifies with fans, there would be no discussion.
This kid deserves a mulligan as much as anyone.
Well I'm not talking about what anyone deserves. I'm just talking about what we can expect.
I certainly don't dismiss the chance that he will break out this year. My concern is that his problems seem to be about his pocket awareness. In my view that is the root of all his difficulties.
Not sure that is something that can magically fix itself. I'm sure experience can bring some improvement, but it seems that it's something you either have or you don't.
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Post by DandyDon on Jul 11, 2021 10:12:09 GMT -5
How many of the other QBs had their second year in a pandemic with no preseason and with an entirely new coaching staff and scheme?
I agree this is the year DJ needs to shine, but there is no comparison that can be made between his second year and anyone else.
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Post by Martin on Jul 11, 2021 10:23:30 GMT -5
I'd say he earned the benefit of doubt based on the circumstances.
Now had he missed a final snap of a game because was off doing seifies with fans, there would be no discussion.
This kid deserves a mulligan as much as anyone.
Well I'm not talking about what anyone deserves. I'm just talking about what we can expect.
I certainly don't dismiss the chance that he will break out this year. My concern is that his problems seem to be about his pocket awareness. In my view that is the root of all his difficulties.
Not sure that is something that can magically fix itself. I'm sure experience can bring some improvement, but it seems that it's something you either have or you don't.
You would hear the old cliche - The QB hears foot steps! But in todays NFL if the QB hears foot steps he has been sacked. I agree you either have that radar or you don't. I hope DJ has it but so far it doesn't look that way. |
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Post by Martin on Jul 11, 2021 10:27:59 GMT -5
How many of the other QBs had their second year in a pandemic with no preseason and with an entirely new coaching staff and scheme?
I agree this is the year DJ needs to shine, but there is no comparison that can be made between his second year and anyone else. It's a big deal for sure and the spot light is all on him. There will be no excuses with the weapons he has plus year 2 in the same scheme. |
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