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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 10:07:59 GMT -5
Mike...the Irish one, made an excellent point regarding that no off season as to why Judge rotated the OL. We were still looking at OL this last draft...Gettleman said as much, and both targets being in the 2nd and 3rd, according to the man who pulls the trigger, were chosen before they had a chance. Me as GM?...I'm keeping quiet on any what if scenarios ...let the media speculate. IMHO, we're still in need of a guard...this year, and for certain, next. In my not knowing as much as Judge opinion. That statement also shows O-line was not a priority. If it was. Rashawn Slater or Alijah Vera-Tucker would be a Giant. Even if we still traded down to 20. Christian Darrisaw was there. Slater vs that trade is a tough one...and Vera-Tucker was traded up for. I have to disagree here...Gettleman did that trade and IMHO, a smart deal with the QB still a question for next year and that 1 pick nice insurance. They have their own board so I can't argue with how they graded players...might disagree as a fan, but going to have to trust the scouting department on Toney at 20, vs Christian Darrisaw. I know you liked him as a prospect...and if he is a projected starter, I agree far more value taking any tackle vs receiver. I still disagree that we were not looking interior in rounds 2 and 3....will believe Gettleman as them wanting OL in rounds 2 and 3, and as always happens when drafting BPA vs need ... shit happens and players are taken and thus erased from your own board.
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Post by Sarcasman on Jul 18, 2021 10:08:12 GMT -5
couldn't it be said that most QBs who make it to the NFL might be successful if they had a good supporting cast, I use Trent Dilfer as an example... I think that’s true for many of them. Certainly, more would likely have had better opportunities in the league had they gone into better situations.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 11:04:30 GMT -5
If Jones fallls his face this year and with the next batch of QBs in the draft, the Giants will use the 1st rd picks for someone else's "franchise' QB. Having said that, I believe DJ steps up and proves everyone wrong. 11-6 division title. Call your bookies
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Post by McCherry on Jul 18, 2021 11:10:52 GMT -5
does that mean we will go for a QB with one of our 2 picks in round 1, I know its too early to say yet but the possibility exists... If Jones flops I imagine QB would be on our radar. One of the hidden beauties behind our Rd1 trade this year is the fact we now have two picks to leverage in a trade up if need be. Right now, there is only one QB worthy of that talk, and you’re probably going to need to get to up #1 to get him. Usually the team with that pick isn't giving it up.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 11:34:49 GMT -5
If Jones fallls his face this year and with the next batch of QBs in the draft, the Giants will use the 1st rd picks for someone else's "franchise' QB. Having said that, I believe DJ steps up and proves everyone wrong. 11-6 division title. Call your bookies I've already played a Danny DIME for the Giants winning the superbowl, and another dime over 7 games If the Giants win the superbowl, I win $6,600 bucks...no I don't see that happening, but if Daniel Jones goes franchise, and Barkley is rookie Barkley...those are some interesting odds. I am more inclined that they make the playoffs, and do more then 7 wins...I'm thinking 10.
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Post by TEM on Jul 18, 2021 11:36:07 GMT -5
That statement also shows O-line was not a priority. If it was. Rashawn Slater or Alijah Vera-Tucker would be a Giant. Even if we still traded down to 20. Christian Darrisaw was there. Slater vs that trade is a tough one...and Vera-Tucker was traded up for. I have to disagree here...Gettleman did that trade and IMHO, a smart deal with the QB still a question for next year and that 1 pick nice insurance. They have their own board so I can't argue with how they graded players...might disagree as a fan, but going to have to trust the scouting department on Toney at 20, vs Christian Darrisaw. I know you liked him as a prospect...and if he is a projected starter, I agree far more value taking any tackle vs receiver. I still disagree that we were not looking interior in rounds 2 and 3....will believe Gettleman as them wanting OL in rounds 2 and 3, and as always happens when drafting BPA vs need ... shit happens and players are taken and thus erased from your own board. I am not arguing the trade. In Round 2 he let Samuel Cosmi and Dillon Radunz go untouched . ( both I believed would have been good picks) Don't get me wrong I loved Azeez Ojulari pick. In Round 3 We had pick 71 Who was after Radunz? in that round Jalen Mayfield (pick 68) or Brady Christensen (pick 70) i did not want either of them both slow are as S###. No better than what is on the roster. IMO: I think they were hoping for a McKinney type situation and have OT or OG fall in their lap. That did not happen. Not really targeting O-line but wanting a gift horse.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 11:38:02 GMT -5
If Jones flops I imagine QB would be on our radar. One of the hidden beauties behind our Rd1 trade this year is the fact we now have two picks to leverage in a trade up if need be. Right now, there is only one QB worthy of that talk, and you’re probably going to need to get to up #1 to get him. Usually the team with that pick isn't giving it up. There's 2...possibly 3...by the tape right now Figure 5 by college year over and done....college QB's still have to play a year for the ups ...and downs.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 18, 2021 11:43:48 GMT -5
Right now, there is only one QB worthy of that talk, and you’re probably going to need to get to up #1 to get him. Usually the team with that pick isn't giving it up. There's 2...possibly 3...by the tape right now Figure 5 by college year over and done....college QB's still have to play a year for the ups ...and downs. I see only 2 IMO Ratler is my favorite...reminds me of Mayfield Howell actually reminds me a bit of Jones if he had a better cast around him but Ratler has more an it factor
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 11:47:51 GMT -5
Slater vs that trade is a tough one...and Vera-Tucker was traded up for. I have to disagree here...Gettleman did that trade and IMHO, a smart deal with the QB still a question for next year and that 1 pick nice insurance. They have their own board so I can't argue with how they graded players...might disagree as a fan, but going to have to trust the scouting department on Toney at 20, vs Christian Darrisaw. I know you liked him as a prospect...and if he is a projected starter, I agree far more value taking any tackle vs receiver. I still disagree that we were not looking interior in rounds 2 and 3....will believe Gettleman as them wanting OL in rounds 2 and 3, and as always happens when drafting BPA vs need ... shit happens and players are taken and thus erased from your own board. I am not arguing the trade. In Round 2 he let Samuel Cosmi and Dillon Radunz go untouched . ( both I believed would have been good picks) Don't get me wrong I loved Azeez Ojulari pick. In Round 3 We had pick 71 Who was after Radunz? in that round Jalen Mayfield (pick 68) or Brady Christensen (pick 70) i did not want either of them both slow are as S###. No better than what is on the roster. IMO: I think they were hoping for a McKinney type situation and have OT or OG fall in their lap. That did not happen. Not really targeting O-line but wanting a gift horse. Well, we now agree a bit more as that is indeed a possibility...I am only going by what Gettleman actually said...and I believe they were targeting IOL...and Mayfield seems more of a potential guard. It's entirely possible they were in a wow, Ojulari is "still" on the board and wanted a lineman they had a late 2 early 3 grade on...and sort of had to take him at that point. It gets tricky playing against 31 other teams and what "your" teams value might suggest in a reach for a player, while that same player could be graded a steal with their scouts in the same spot. Cherry makes a good point in a previous thread, maybe they passed on Slater because they had him strictly as a tackle...and that was their philosophy in regards to Peart...too lean to be a guard, and they feel strongly he is our future tackle. In that case...yeah, we might have gotten too cute in awaiting for a guard to show up in our big board, and bam, he's gone. Still in agreement, this OL is a huge question mark.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 11:52:25 GMT -5
There's 2...possibly 3...by the tape right now Figure 5 by college year over and done....college QB's still have to play a year for the ups ...and downs. I see only 2 IMO Ratler is my favorite...reminds me of Mayfield Howell actually reminds me a bit of Jones if he had a better cast around him but Ratler has more an it factor Was watching that kid at USC a few days ago...forget his name..sounds like a Russian name, lol...he looked fairly good on tape. Ratler makes those throws out of the pocket...lots of them, and accurately. I like him. Big 12 too Hope we go 4-0 so I can spend time watching defensive studs, the Ducks, and that tiny tackle at Alabama as LSU marches back into prominence Last years recruiting class has Notre Dame as the 2nd best overall....Ohio State tops again, but the Crimson Tide at 10
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Post by McCherry on Jul 18, 2021 11:54:47 GMT -5
I am not arguing the trade. In Round 2 he let Samuel Cosmi and Dillon Radunz go untouched . ( both I believed would have been good picks) Don't get me wrong I loved Azeez Ojulari pick. In Round 3 We had pick 71 Who was after Radunz? in that round Jalen Mayfield (pick 68) or Brady Christensen (pick 70) i did not want either of them both slow are as S###. No better than what is on the roster. IMO: I think they were hoping for a McKinney type situation and have OT or OG fall in their lap. That did not happen. Not really targeting O-line but wanting a gift horse. Well, we now agree a bit more as that is indeed a possibility...I am only going by what Gettleman actually said...and I believe they were targeting IOL...and Mayfield seems more of a potential guard. It's entirely possible they were in a wow, Ojulari is "still" on the board and wanted a lineman they had a late 2 early 3 grade on...and sort of had to take him at that point. It gets tricky playing against 31 other teams and what "your" teams value might suggest in a reach for a player, while that same player could be graded a steal with their scouts in the same spot. Cherry makes a good point in a previous thread, maybe they passed on Slater because they had him strictly as a tackle...and that was their philosophy in regards to Peart...too lean to be a guard, and they feel strongly he is our future tackle. In that case...yeah, we might have gotten too cute in awaiting for a guard to show up in our big board, and bam, he's gone. Still in agreement, this OL is a huge question mark. I'm guessing the misses Gettleman was talking about were Vera-Tucker in round 1 and Banks, who went right before we picked in the 2nd. But we did pass up Wyatt Davis in the 3rd and some others later. If the Giants just didn't like any OL after round two, I'm ok with that. I never thought Slater was really an option. Converting a premier LT to G? It just didn't make sense to me.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 18, 2021 11:55:38 GMT -5
obviously OL was not a priority ( questionable) because you draft BPA mixed with need in a position the NYGs were in last draft. For some reason they saw no OL that was worth it. This decision was based on who they already have, their feelings toward those players and who was available.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 18, 2021 12:02:28 GMT -5
obviously OL was not a priority ( questionable) because you draft BPA mixed with need in a position the NYGs were in last draft. For some reason they saw no OL that was worth it. This decision was based on who they already have, their feelings toward those players and who was available. And they could’ve signed Turner after the draft if they felt they had a hole at Guard.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 12:10:41 GMT -5
Well, we now agree a bit more as that is indeed a possibility...I am only going by what Gettleman actually said...and I believe they were targeting IOL...and Mayfield seems more of a potential guard. It's entirely possible they were in a wow, Ojulari is "still" on the board and wanted a lineman they had a late 2 early 3 grade on...and sort of had to take him at that point. It gets tricky playing against 31 other teams and what "your" teams value might suggest in a reach for a player, while that same player could be graded a steal with their scouts in the same spot. Cherry makes a good point in a previous thread, maybe they passed on Slater because they had him strictly as a tackle...and that was their philosophy in regards to Peart...too lean to be a guard, and they feel strongly he is our future tackle. In that case...yeah, we might have gotten too cute in awaiting for a guard to show up in our big board, and bam, he's gone. Still in agreement, this OL is a huge question mark. I'm guessing the misses Gettleman was talking about were Vera-Tucker in round 1 and Banks, who went right before we picked in the 2nd. But we did pass up Wyatt Davis in the 3rd and some others later. If the Giants just didn't like any OL after round two, I'm ok with that. I never thought Slater was really an option. Converting a premier LT to G? It just didn't make sense to me. Well, Gettleman said in rounds 2, and rounds 3...although Vera-Tucker at 20 would be an insane steal. I know I heard a lot of smoke about Landon Dickerson as the guy the Giants were hoping for in round 2...leader, versatile, smart, huge injury concerns ...round 3?...not a clue, although before draft I heard Mayfield a few times in rumors. Davis really fell off the charts...I liked Aaron Banks although he is exact opposite of zone blocker...still, a good pick lost and any blocker coming from the Irish gets an extra nod of improvement and I'd still expect him to be smart in the second level. I really believe the Giants managed the draft well, but things certainly and obviously did not go their way in regards to having the player they wanted available...that 2nd round trade back said as much.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 18, 2021 12:10:51 GMT -5
obviously OL was not a priority ( questionable) because you draft BPA mixed with need in a position the NYGs were in last draft. For some reason they saw no OL that was worth it. This decision was based on who they already have, their feelings toward those players and who was available. And they could’ve signed Turner after the draft if they felt they had a hole at Guard. also true.. with that said they are gambling with a mediocre hand hoping/counting on getting good cards in the draw.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 12:17:05 GMT -5
obviously OL was not a priority ( questionable) because you draft BPA mixed with need in a position the NYGs were in last draft. For some reason they saw no OL that was worth it. This decision was based on who they already have, their feelings toward those players and who was available. I will agree to disagree...however that Slater 11 pass hurt...but the value for IOL last year was later in the draft...and that's when players are easily snatched up and leave you empty handed. Slater Terrace Marshall Jr. / Moore /D'Wayne Eskridge vs Toney Azeez Ojulari No OL Picks...including a next years 1
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Post by McCherry on Jul 18, 2021 12:17:25 GMT -5
And they could’ve signed Turner after the draft if they felt they had a hole at Guard. also true.. with that said they are gambling with a mediocre hand hoping/counting on getting good cards in the draw. We're trying to project rookies based on rookie performances. Look at Chris Snee or Rich Suebert's career compared to their rookie seasons. I don't think the Giants believe we simply have mediocre talent on the OL and are ok with that. If that's case, the entire franchise effed up big time.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 18, 2021 12:23:34 GMT -5
obviously OL was not a priority ( questionable) because you draft BPA mixed with need in a position the NYGs were in last draft. For some reason they saw no OL that was worth it. This decision was based on who they already have, their feelings toward those players and who was available. I will agree to disagree...however that Slater 11 pass hurt...but the value for IOL last year was later in the draft...and that's when players are easily snatched up and leave you empty handed. Slater Terrace Marshall Jr. / Moore /D'Wayne Eskridge vs Toney Azeez Ojulari No OL Picks...including a next years 1 OL was not a priority. Thats why they made the decisions they made.....no?
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 18, 2021 12:24:53 GMT -5
I see only 2 IMO Ratler is my favorite...reminds me of Mayfield Howell actually reminds me a bit of Jones if he had a better cast around him but Ratler has more an it factor Was watching that kid at USC a few days ago...forget his name..sounds like a Russian name, lol...he looked fairly good on tape. Ratler makes those throws out of the pocket...lots of them, and accurately. I like him. Big 12 too Hope we go 4-0 so I can spend time watching defensive studs, the Ducks, and that tiny tackle at Alabama as LSU marches back into prominence Last years recruiting class has Notre Dame as the 2nd best overall....Ohio State tops again, but the Crimson Tide at 10 Agreed on all of this Have a winning record over the 1wt 4 games and Jones looking legit and we are scouting other positions (while hopefully the Bears are who we thought they are and allow us to dream of a stud top 7 pick while our mid 20s pick is a major luxury type BPA ) I'm actually hoping for a beast IDL guy with one of our 1sts TBH ..who that is TBD
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Post by GameTime on Jul 18, 2021 12:25:06 GMT -5
also true.. with that said they are gambling with a mediocre hand hoping/counting on getting good cards in the draw. We're trying to project rookies based on rookie performances. Look at Chris Snee or Rich Suebert's career compared to their rookie seasons. I don't think the Giants believe we simply have mediocre talent on the OL and are ok with that. If that's case, the entire franchise effed up big time. projection or whatever you want to call it. They are gambling big time, how big is up to one's perspective, and they hope it works out. I am cool with that but I hope they hit the big hand win the pot
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Post by TEM on Jul 18, 2021 12:28:31 GMT -5
also true.. with that said they are gambling with a mediocre hand hoping/counting on getting good cards in the draw. We're trying to project rookies based on rookie performances. Look at Chris Snee or Rich Suebert's career compared to their rookie seasons. I don't think the Giants believe we simply have mediocre talent on the OL and are ok with that. If that's case, the entire franchise effed up big time. You are forgetting something. We were not a myriad of 6 or less win teams back then. We could eat a few bad seasons and still keep fan moral alive. Right now. We are as desperate as 1981 for changes. If they don't come this year. . We are starting this whole campaign again. It will just keep the circle of pain going. GT is spot on situationally.
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Post by piddy283 on Jul 18, 2021 12:29:31 GMT -5
If Jones flops I imagine QB would be on our radar. One of the hidden beauties behind our Rd1 trade this year is the fact we now have two picks to leverage in a trade up if need be. Right now, there is only one QB worthy of that talk, and you’re probably going to need to get to up #1 to get him. Usually the team with that pick isn't giving it up. I'll take your work on that because I have zero clue about next year's class except for the fact it's supposed to be incredibly deep. I'm banking on us not needing a QB anyway.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 18, 2021 12:44:02 GMT -5
We're trying to project rookies based on rookie performances. Look at Chris Snee or Rich Suebert's career compared to their rookie seasons. I don't think the Giants believe we simply have mediocre talent on the OL and are ok with that. If that's case, the entire franchise effed up big time. You are forgetting something. We were not a myriad of 6 or less win teams back then. We could eat a few bad seasons and still keep fan moral alive. Right now. We are as desperate as 1981 for changes. If they don't come this year. . We are starting this whole campaign again. It will just keep the circle of pain going. GT is spot on situationally. We came off the same problems when that OL was built. Albeit, McKenzie and O'Hara were proven players, moving Diehl to LT was a huge risk. Suebert was coming off a near career ending knee injury. I don't think the Giants underestimate the amount of pressure to win right now after spending $200M, coming off a 6-10 season and questions with their QB. There is no margin for error and if they're wrong they all need to go.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 12:44:31 GMT -5
I will agree to disagree...however that Slater 11 pass hurt...but the value for IOL last year was later in the draft...and that's when players are easily snatched up and leave you empty handed. Slater Terrace Marshall Jr. / Moore /D'Wayne Eskridge vs Toney Azeez Ojulari No OL Picks...including a next years 1 OL was not a priority. Thats why they made the decisions they made.....no? If you are drafting some need, yeah...strange they passed up on what was a deep class. Azeez Ojulari I believe created the no OL mess...no way were they expecting him to be there. I hope the Bulldog plays lights out and we never hear about that knee...
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Post by McCherry on Jul 18, 2021 12:45:53 GMT -5
Right now, there is only one QB worthy of that talk, and you’re probably going to need to get to up #1 to get him. Usually the team with that pick isn't giving it up. I'll take your work on that because I have zero clue about next year's class except for the fact it's supposed to be incredibly deep. I'm banking on us not needing a QB anyway. I don't really know, just from what I've followed loosely. Many more qualified opinions on college football than mine, but it’s way too early to tell.
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Post by TEM on Jul 18, 2021 13:00:44 GMT -5
You are forgetting something. We were not a myriad of 6 or less win teams back then. We could eat a few bad seasons and still keep fan moral alive. Right now. We are as desperate as 1981 for changes. If they don't come this year. . We are starting this whole campaign again. It will just keep the circle of pain going. GT is spot on situationally. We came off the same problems when that OL was built. Albeit, McKenzie and O'Hara were proven players, moving Diehl to LT was a huge risk. Suebert was coming off a near career ending knee injury. I don't think the Giants underestimate the amount of pressure to win right now after spending $200M, coming off a 6-10 season and questions with their QB. There is no margin for error and if they're wrong they all need to go. I agree. But GT is right the O-line is a huge ?
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Post by GameTime on Jul 18, 2021 13:02:26 GMT -5
OL was not a priority. Thats why they made the decisions they made.....no? If you are drafting some need, yeah...strange they passed up on what was a deep class. Azeez Ojulari I believe created the no OL mess...no way were they expecting him to be there. I hope the Bulldog plays lights out and we never hear about that knee... agreed
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2021 13:19:46 GMT -5
We're trying to project rookies based on rookie performances. Look at Chris Snee or Rich Suebert's career compared to their rookie seasons. I don't think the Giants believe we simply have mediocre talent on the OL and are ok with that. If that's case, the entire franchise effed up big time. You are forgetting something. We were not a myriad of 6 or less win teams back then. We could eat a few bad seasons and still keep fan moral alive. Right now. We are as desperate as 1981 for changes. If they don't come this year. . We are starting this whole campaign again. It will just keep the circle of pain going. GT is spot on situationally. Yeah, going into this year is almost akin for each game being a playoff type game...we have no area for losing more games than we win...as you suggest, as a fan, I can not handle an entire reset ....
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Post by Jomo on Jul 18, 2021 13:34:46 GMT -5
does that mean we will go for a QB with one of our 2 picks in round 1, I know its too early to say yet but the possibility exists... What it means is that we would be in the market for a QB. Whether that is via trade, FA signing or a package of picks to move up the draft order who knows? As an aside, if the guy didn't flop on his face in year 1 and year 2 with those supporting casts, it is hard to envision that happening this year. The MUCH tougher question is: What do we do if he makes a modest step forward and we go 9-7? (which is a much more likely scenario than a flat out flop this year.)
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Post by McCherry on Jul 18, 2021 13:57:20 GMT -5
does that mean we will go for a QB with one of our 2 picks in round 1, I know its too early to say yet but the possibility exists... What it means is that we would be in the market for a QB. Whether that is via trade, FA signing or a package of picks to move up the draft order who knows? As an aside, if the guy didn't flop on his face in year 1 and year 2 with those supporting casts, it is hard to envision that happening this year. The MUCH tougher question is: What do we do if he makes a modest step forward and we go 9-7? (which is a much more likely scenario than a flat out flop this year.) Do you mean 10-7? Or 9-8?
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