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Post by vinnie on Jul 21, 2021 20:56:25 GMT -5
Based on not drafting a single O lineman this year, letting Zeitler go and only bringing in Fulton and Harrison to help out the worst O line in the league last year? Yeah, anything would be better than nothing. How is letting some of them go and bringing in more FA’s to compete something they can’t do? How bad are the other 9-10 O linemen that they couldn’t even play over guys who were some of the worst at their position? They dont have "nothing". Last year's group was a few rookies and other young players. They all have more reps under their belt. Why cant the players in this group develop and improve? That's kinda how the NFL is supposed to work right? Get players, develop players and see what happens. I get the frustration but we have to see how it turns out. Problem #1: The entire group was mostly rookies with one “real” veteran who we let go. A good GM would have had a nice mix of vets and young players which he could have had if he didn’t screw it up from the beginning. And when I say vets, I mean good vets, not someone like Solder who opted out but was one of the worst LT’s in the league last time he played (especially considering what they paid him). Problem #2: There is no guarantee that just because they are young that means they’ll improve. See Flowers and Hernandez for further proof. Problem #3 (biggest problem): This is a huge year for our QB, the time to figure out whether DJ is our franchise QB or not is this year, not next year, or the year after. We have the draft capital to draft another top QB next year if we want to, it may be our best spot for years to come. This isn’t the year to roll the dice on a group full of second year linemen who were rated as one of the worst in the league last year and just cross our fingers that they will all be significantly better. Problem #4: Our depth sucks! Great, we have Solder back and what exactly has he done since he’s been here other than commit one of the greatest heists in NFL history by being paid the most ever for impersonating a LT? Sadly, Fulton may be our most solid back up and I think he will be, if he’s not starting outright which leaves Hernandez or Lemieux as the back ups.
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Post by Jomo on Jul 21, 2021 20:57:38 GMT -5
I would love that but most likely any help will come late in camp with a minor trade or picked up as a late cut. Prolly right but I’ll take what I can get, I have a feeling some camp cuts will be better than at least one of our starters, if not two, and one or two of our back ups. I agree. Until proven otherwise I want all the OL options we can find.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 21, 2021 21:08:17 GMT -5
They dont have "nothing". Last year's group was a few rookies and other young players. They all have more reps under their belt. Why cant the players in this group develop and improve? That's kinda how the NFL is supposed to work right? Get players, develop players and see what happens. I get the frustration but we have to see how it turns out. Don't bother with any kind of logic or reasoning here .. I am sick of losing like everyone else but you don't replace rookies with more rookies every year if they aren't an all pro in their first year with no preseason or offseason programs ... And I say this as someone who wanted at least one more player taken in the draft somewhere even just for young death Shit happened and it didn't work out So your content with our back ups? If one or two of our stellar starters gets hurt or just plain suck, you think having a few guys who were the worst at their positions last year as their replacement is satisfactory in such a critical year? Say the O line is below average to bad AGAIN and DJ is under constant pressure therefore not only nullifying Galloday, Toney, etc but also giving the FO and some fans another year of excuses for DJ. Then what? We try to fix the O line again next year and miss out on getting a new QB in a draft, that will most likely be the best chance we have for years, all because the FO didn’t want to play a couple veterans who were better than the 2nd year players we had? Personally, I’d rather bench Lemieux and/or Hernandez and/or Peart and “waste” a year of their careers rather than continue to play them with the hopes that they will improve significantly enough to see what we have in DJ. For the love of God, they could have at least brought in better back ups and/or competition. I’d rather know what we have in DJ this year than what we have in our 2nd year O linemen or Hernandez.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 21, 2021 21:10:58 GMT -5
Well it’s been nice fellas, gotta get up early for work mañana. To be continued….
Hopefully the regular season starts and these O line conversations will all be history!
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Post by GameTime on Jul 21, 2021 21:41:01 GMT -5
They dont have "nothing". Last year's group was a few rookies and other young players. They all have more reps under their belt. Why cant the players in this group develop and improve? That's kinda how the NFL is supposed to work right? Get players, develop players and see what happens. I get the frustration but we have to see how it turns out. Problem #1: The entire group was mostly rookies with one “real” veteran who we let go. A good GM would have had a nice mix of vets and young players which he could have had if he didn’t screw it up from the beginning. And when I say vets, I mean good vets, not someone like Solder who opted out but was one of the worst LT’s in the league last time he played (especially considering what they paid him). Problem #2: There is no guarantee that just because they are young that means they’ll improve. See Flowers and Hernandez for further proof. Problem #3 (biggest problem): This is a huge year for our QB, the time to figure out whether DJ is our franchise QB or not is this year, not next year, or the year after. We have the draft capital to draft another top QB next year if we want to, it may be our best spot for years to come. This isn’t the year to roll the dice on a group full of second year linemen who were rated as one of the worst in the league last year and just cross our fingers that they will all be significantly better. Problem #4: Our depth sucks! Great, we have Solder back and what exactly has he done since he’s been here other than commit one of the greatest heists in NFL history by being paid the most ever for impersonating a LT? Sadly, Fulton may be our most solid back up and I think he will be, if he’s not starting outright which leaves Hernandez or Lemieux as the back ups. when are there guarantees in the NFL? Not often. Never said there was. Zeitler's gone. No matter how many times you bash the GM for it he ain't coming back. Like I said its old played news. I am getting myself ready to watch this team take the significant steps to get better. This way I dont have to be miserable until its necessary. Half full Half empty To each his own perspective.
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Post by Martin on Jul 21, 2021 22:27:59 GMT -5
This is a waiting game hopefully it works out but if management screwed this up the trust will be gone at least for me it will.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 21, 2021 23:44:14 GMT -5
They couldn't even beat out the Fultons, Wiggins's or Slades... If they could, they wouldn't be on the street. Incorrect. That’s funny, because minus DeCastro, I looked at the first 4 FA guards available and they all played as many or more snaps than Lemieux and Hernandez and t hey all had better to significantly better PFF grades than Lemieux and all but one had similar or better grades than Hernandez. I got sick of looking after that. So apparently they are on the street and they are better than our two starting guards yet we’re content with what we have. I’m tempted to keep going down the list to see how many more are better as well. This also obviously doesn’t include the FA’s that have already been signed by other teams. You need to get over PFF grades... Ask yourself, why haven't these players been signed by any team in football? Are they all dumb?
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 22, 2021 0:39:51 GMT -5
Incorrect. That’s funny, because minus DeCastro, I looked at the first 4 FA guards available and they all played as many or more snaps than Lemieux and Hernandez and t hey all had better to significantly better PFF grades than Lemieux and all but one had similar or better grades than Hernandez. I got sick of looking after that. So apparently they are on the street and they are better than our two starting guards yet we’re content with what we have. I’m tempted to keep going down the list to see how many more are better as well. This also obviously doesn’t include the FA’s that have already been signed by other teams. You need to get over PFF grades... Ask yourself, why haven't these players been signed by any team in football? Are they all dumb? Hint Because teams are going to now see what tvey have through camp and preseason first,including us
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2021 6:15:12 GMT -5
I didn’t say OT, at least I didn’t mean to, I would look at guards first and then tackles. Pick one, they surely can’t be any worse than some of the worst guards in the league. www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/guard/If they're still unemployed less than a week before camp, they are the worst in the league. Just like Logan Ryan was last season... Oh wait he was much worse being it was a week before the SEASON.. Inconsistent this one is.. Crazy..
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 7:47:12 GMT -5
Incorrect. That’s funny, because minus DeCastro, I looked at the first 4 FA guards available and they all played as many or more snaps than Lemieux and Hernandez and t hey all had better to significantly better PFF grades than Lemieux and all but one had similar or better grades than Hernandez. I got sick of looking after that. So apparently they are on the street and they are better than our two starting guards yet we’re content with what we have. I’m tempted to keep going down the list to see how many more are better as well. This also obviously doesn’t include the FA’s that have already been signed by other teams. You need to get over PFF grades... Ask yourself, why haven't these players been signed by any team in football? Are they all dumb? I knew someone would bring that up and I guarantee if it was the other way around and they were all graded high, people like you would be using those grades to defend Gettleman and the players themselves. I’ll tell you why they haven’t been signed, because most teams are in the business of winning and don’t have GM’s with the size of Gettlemans ego. In other words, those players aren’t good enough for a lot of teams and they are better than anyone we have but Gettleman will refuse to admit he whiffed on the O line for the 4th year in a row.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 7:49:06 GMT -5
You need to get over PFF grades... Ask yourself, why haven't these players been signed by any team in football? Are they all dumb? Hint Because teams are going to now see what tvey have through camp and preseason first,including us Ray Charles can see what we have before pre season. Nothing like being behind the 8 ball instead of being pro active so when they finally do see it, a lot of the better players will already have been signed.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 22, 2021 8:07:12 GMT -5
Hint Because teams are going to now see what tvey have through camp and preseason first,including us Ray Charles can see what we have before pre season. Nothing like being behind the 8 ball instead of being pro active so when they finally do see it, a lot of the better players will already have been signed. which better players are available? After you talk to Ray Charles about the roster maybe get a hold of Nostradamus so he can tell you how the these young players are definitely NOT getting better. Seems to be the opinion that there absolutely no way they improve at all and the NYGs are totally screwed.
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Merc
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Post by Merc on Jul 22, 2021 8:30:42 GMT -5
Weber and Peters have been signed.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 9:16:56 GMT -5
Ray Charles can see what we have before pre season. Nothing like being behind the 8 ball instead of being pro active so when they finally do see it, a lot of the better players will already have been signed. which better players are available? After you talk to Ray Charles about the roster maybe get a hold of Nostradamus so he can tell you how the these young players are definitely NOT getting better. Seems to be the opinion that there absolutely no way they improve at all and the NYGs are totally screwed. I never said they won’t get better, they obviously can but that’s not saying much when they were the worst or close to it. How much better, if at all, is the question. Some people also act like it’s a given, I gave examples of players who regressed both as vets and rookies. I already said the first 4 players on the FA link I posted (minus DeCastro) were all better than Lemieux and most were equal to or better than Hernandez. I stopped looking after that. It was in my reply to Cherry, should be on this or the last page. BTW, I was never impressed with Nostradamus Sit around and predict enough will happen and some of it is bound to.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 22, 2021 10:18:32 GMT -5
If they're still unemployed less than a week before camp, they are the worst in the league. Just like Logan Ryan was last season... Oh wait he was much worse being it was a week before the SEASON.. Inconsistent this one is.. Crazy.. Logan Ryan was a top veteran DB looking for a fair contract. It wasn't until he switched to Safety that he ended up signing with us for $7.5M as an immediate starter. There are no Guards out there remotely comparable to that situation. I've never even heard of most of the ones who are available.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 22, 2021 10:39:33 GMT -5
which better players are available? After you talk to Ray Charles about the roster maybe get a hold of Nostradamus so he can tell you how the these young players are definitely NOT getting better. Seems to be the opinion that there absolutely no way they improve at all and the NYGs are totally screwed. I never said they won’t get better, they obviously can but that’s not saying much when they were the worst or close to it. How much better, if at all, is the question. Some people also act like it’s a given, I gave examples of players who regressed both as vets and rookies. I already said the first 4 players on the FA link I posted (minus DeCastro) were all better than Lemieux and most were equal to or better than Hernandez. I stopped looking after that. It was in my reply to Cherry, should be on this or the last page. BTW, I was never impressed with Nostradamus Sit around and predict enough will happen and some of it is bound to. I just wont get all flipped out with what they did or didnt do. The time for that is over for me. Now I am focused on watching these guys progress forward. I am not naïve to think the OL will be a solid unit just because its a year later. They have lots of work and need some luck too.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jul 22, 2021 11:10:26 GMT -5
I never said they won’t get better, they obviously can but that’s not saying much when they were the worst or close to it. How much better, if at all, is the question. Some people also act like it’s a given, I gave examples of players who regressed both as vets and rookies. I already said the first 4 players on the FA link I posted (minus DeCastro) were all better than Lemieux and most were equal to or better than Hernandez. I stopped looking after that. It was in my reply to Cherry, should be on this or the last page. BTW, I was never impressed with Nostradamus Sit around and predict enough will happen and some of it is bound to. I just wont get all flipped out with what they did or didnt do. The time for that is over for me. Now I am focused on watching these guys progress forward. I am not naïve to think the OL will be a solid unit just because its a year later. They have lots of work and need some luck too. People forget we only had 6 picks Yeah we passed in IMO the best o line prospect for us at 11 but at the same time we got an extra 1st and 4th in a much better draft class next year with the potential to cover our asses kn case QB is the only thing holding this team back .. The only guy we could end up with buyers remorse for is potential ths guy Kc took from Tennessee that had blood clit issues that apparently looked good in mini camp(then again every other team passed on him 6 times )
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Post by McCherry on Jul 22, 2021 12:14:40 GMT -5
You need to get over PFF grades... Ask yourself, why haven't these players been signed by any team in football? Are they all dumb? I knew someone would bring that up and I guarantee if it was the other way around and they were all graded high, people like you would be using those grades to defend Gettleman and the players themselves. I’ll tell you why they haven’t been signed, because most teams are in the business of winning and don’t have GM’s with the size of Gettlemans ego. In other words, those players aren’t good enough for a lot of teams and they are better than anyone we have but Gettleman will refuse to admit he whiffed on the O line for the 4th year in a row. What I'm saying is that PFF does not tell the whole story. Take Nick Easton for example, a FA Guard released by the Saints this offseason. Multiple injuries through his career. Never played a complete season. Suffered multiple concussions last year. That's why he's unsigned. I'll bet the rest of the Guards in that list are unsigned for similar reasons. Along with the fact that I've never heard of any of them before. You have to look at the whole story, teams aren't looking at PFF ratings.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 22, 2021 12:41:10 GMT -5
I just wont get all flipped out with what they did or didnt do. The time for that is over for me. Now I am focused on watching these guys progress forward. I am not naïve to think the OL will be a solid unit just because its a year later. They have lots of work and need some luck too. People forget we only had 6 picks Yeah we passed in IMO the best o line prospect for us at 11 but at the same time we got an extra 1st and 4th in a much better draft class next year with the potential to cover our asses kn case QB is the only thing holding this team back .. The only guy we could end up with buyers remorse for is potential ths guy Kc took from Tennessee that had blood clit issues that apparently looked good in mini camp(then again every other team passed on him 6 times ) And Solder, Fulton, Harrison aren't too bad in terms of experienced backups. Noone still out there is coming here and beating any of them.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 12:44:09 GMT -5
I never said they won’t get better, they obviously can but that’s not saying much when they were the worst or close to it. How much better, if at all, is the question. Some people also act like it’s a given, I gave examples of players who regressed both as vets and rookies. I already said the first 4 players on the FA link I posted (minus DeCastro) were all better than Lemieux and most were equal to or better than Hernandez. I stopped looking after that. It was in my reply to Cherry, should be on this or the last page. BTW, I was never impressed with Nostradamus Sit around and predict enough will happen and some of it is bound to. I just wont get all flipped out with what they did or didnt do. The time for that is over for me. Now I am focused on watching these guys progress forward. I am not naïve to think the OL will be a solid unit just because its a year later. They have lots of work and need some luck too. You obviously have more control than me. If this wasn’t DG’s 4th year trying to fix his number one priority, if this wasn’t such a big year for our QB, if this wasn’t the entire line and were just one or two players, if they weren’t ranked last or near it in the entire league last year, if we didn’t just invest heavily in WR’s, if we picked up better FA’s and drafted an O lineman…than I wouldn’t be near as emotional.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 12:45:28 GMT -5
Just like Logan Ryan was last season... Oh wait he was much worse being it was a week before the SEASON.. Inconsistent this one is.. Crazy.. Logan Ryan was a top veteran DB looking for a fair contract. It wasn't until he switched to Safety that he ended up signing with us for $7.5M as an immediate starter. There are no Guards out there remotely comparable to that situation. I've never even heard of most of the ones who are available. And the only reason anyone has heard of our O linemen is either because they’re Giants fans or keep up with the worst players for their position in the league,
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 12:49:09 GMT -5
I just wont get all flipped out with what they did or didnt do. The time for that is over for me. Now I am focused on watching these guys progress forward. I am not naïve to think the OL will be a solid unit just because its a year later. They have lots of work and need some luck too. People forget we only had 6 picks Yeah we passed in IMO the best o line prospect for us at 11 but at the same time we got an extra 1st and 4th in a much better draft class next year with the potential to cover our asses kn case QB is the only thing holding this team back .. The only guy we could end up with buyers remorse for is potential ths guy Kc took from Tennessee that had blood clit issues that apparently looked good in mini camp(then again every other team passed on him 6 times And what happens if the O line sucks again and DJ has the 3rd least amount of seconds IN THE LEAGUE, IIRC, to throw the ball? Then we give him another year of excuses and try to fix the O line for the 5the year in a row? We won’t know if the only thing holding this team back is the QB if the O line sucks again, which is my biggest issue with all of this. It may work out but they are taking an awfully big gamble by not having better depth and better starters.
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Post by McCherry on Jul 22, 2021 12:49:58 GMT -5
Logan Ryan was a top veteran DB looking for a fair contract. It wasn't until he switched to Safety that he ended up signing with us for $7.5M as an immediate starter. There are no Guards out there remotely comparable to that situation. I've never even heard of most of the ones who are available. And the only reason anyone has heard of our O linemen is either because they’re Giants fans or keep up with the worst players for their position in the league, They've also only played one season. Xavier McKinney isn't exactly a household name, either.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 12:52:48 GMT -5
I knew someone would bring that up and I guarantee if it was the other way around and they were all graded high, people like you would be using those grades to defend Gettleman and the players themselves. I’ll tell you why they haven’t been signed, because most teams are in the business of winning and don’t have GM’s with the size of Gettlemans ego. In other words, those players aren’t good enough for a lot of teams and they are better than anyone we have but Gettleman will refuse to admit he whiffed on the O line for the 4th year in a row. What I'm saying is that PFF does not tell the whole story. Take Nick Easton for example, a FA Guard released by the Saints this offseason. Multiple injuries through his career. Never played a complete season. Suffered multiple concussions last year. That's why he's unsigned. I'll bet the rest of the Guards in that list are unsigned for similar reasons. Along with the fact that I've never heard of any of them before. You have to look at the whole story, teams aren't looking at PFF ratings. I agree with that and I almost even stated as much, that I’m sure some of them had valid reasons, not associated with their level of play, for still being FA’s but when we’re talking about replacing or having a suitable back up to the worst players in the league for their position then I find it hard to believe there aren’t some out there without other concerns or the ones that are aren’t worth the risk on a small salary.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 13:02:05 GMT -5
People forget we only had 6 picks Yeah we passed in IMO the best o line prospect for us at 11 but at the same time we got an extra 1st and 4th in a much better draft class next year with the potential to cover our asses kn case QB is the only thing holding this team back .. The only guy we could end up with buyers remorse for is potential ths guy Kc took from Tennessee that had blood clit issues that apparently looked good in mini camp(then again every other team passed on him 6 times ) And Solder, Fulton, Harrison aren't too bad in terms of experienced backups. Noone still out there is coming here and beating any of them. So having a guard who lead the league in sacks given up last year isn’t a bad option? Or having a LT that was 3rd in sacks allowed and close to most pressures allowed last time he played isn’t a bad option? Geez, I really don’t know what else to say. They were literally the worst in the league at their positions and that’s “not bad”? I’d hate to hear who you think IS bad. I would say Lemieux but “he was just a rookie”. I would bring up our veteran back ups but you just said they weren’t “too bad” The one thing that all 3 have in common is they were all the worst in the league at their positions last time they played. I mean, seriously? The back up to the worst guard in the league last year, by most metrics, is the guard who gave up the most sacks in the league last year. The back up tackle to the tackle who gave up the most sacks last year was tied for third in sacks given up and led the league in pressures allowed last time he played. I couldn’t think of a worse scenario, you can’t make this up. You are right about one thing, no one is coming in here and beating any of them because DG won’t allow it, no one else will be coming in and he will live or die by the O line this year (and DJ) the way it is now.
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Post by IrishMike on Jul 22, 2021 16:12:24 GMT -5
Of course not by this team, that means they would have to admit they failed miserably at their jobs. C’mon Mike, do you really want me to dig up the several articles that quote stats and analysts that had this O line ranked last or close to it last year? Valid or not, I’m not interested in excuses. This year they could suck again and I’ll hear “they had a new O line coach, they looked better as the year went on” or “so and so sucked, so it made everyone around him look worse then they really are” or “Lemieux sucked, the O line is only as strong as it’s weakest link, they should have replaced him last year but we had to see if he was the answer or not”. The excuses will never stop if people don’t want them too and personally, after DG’s 3rd year and still being as bad as they were last year, I’ve already heard enough excuses. LOL no one in this organization makes decisions based on how they think the media will view it. What you're saying just does not line up with reality. Dave Gettleman has signed OL that was a mistake and had no issue replacing him half way through a season. There is zero chance they didn't replace players because it would be "admitting they failed miserably".
This coaching staff has faith in the OL. You don't have to agree, that's fine, but it's a fact that they have faith in them. If they didn't then we would have done more than sign Fulton and draft no one. At some point we have to develop players, if we can't do that then nothing else really matters. Each of our OL were very good at run blocking last year, lets build on that and see what we can get out of these guys.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 17:23:39 GMT -5
Of course not by this team, that means they would have to admit they failed miserably at their jobs. C’mon Mike, do you really want me to dig up the several articles that quote stats and analysts that had this O line ranked last or close to it last year? Valid or not, I’m not interested in excuses. This year they could suck again and I’ll hear “they had a new O line coach, they looked better as the year went on” or “so and so sucked, so it made everyone around him look worse then they really are” or “Lemieux sucked, the O line is only as strong as it’s weakest link, they should have replaced him last year but we had to see if he was the answer or not”. The excuses will never stop if people don’t want them too and personally, after DG’s 3rd year and still being as bad as they were last year, I’ve already heard enough excuses. LOL no one in this organization makes decisions based on how they think the media will view it. What you're saying just does not line up with reality. Dave Gettleman has signed OL that was a mistake and had no issue replacing him half way through a season. There is zero chance they didn't replace players because it would be "admitting they failed miserably".
This coaching staff has faith in the OL. You don't have to agree, that's fine, but it's a fact that they have faith in them. If they didn't then we would have done more than sign Fulton and draft no one. At some point we have to develop players, if we can't do that then nothing else really matters. Each of our OL were very good at run blocking last year, lets build on that and see what we can get out of these guys.
Of course they don’t make decisions based on how they think the media will view it because if they did they might actually have a winning season for once. They march to the beat of their own, out dated, egotistical, broken drum. Perhaps I should have been more clear, when was the last time DG replaced an O lineman he drafted with another player he didn’t draft? Peart was never named the starter for most games and he would be the only exception. Plus, the fact that you somewhat acknowledge how many players have been rotated through this O line under DG and how many he has replaced after being GM for 4 years speaks volumes about his lack of “eye” for good linemen which was supposed to be his forte. I seriously doubt there has been as many linemen rotated through an O line on any team in the past 4 years, that wasn’t due to retirement or serious injury, as there has been with the Giants under DG. Even more impressive than that is with all the changes he’s made, he’s managed to keep them rated as one of the worst O lines in the league each year! Bravo Dave, bravo! I agree we need to develop players, we also need to find out what we have at QB. Which is more important, trying to develop a 2nd year O lineman who may or may not suck and have no adequate back ups or have some decent vets and figure out what we have in our rookie QB’s third year while we have 2 first round draft picks next year? I’m going with the latter. Plus, most competent GM’s don’t “develop” and entire O line made up of nothing but 1st or 2nd year players at the same time, that’s ass backwards but it’s also how he built this team so I can’t say I’m surprised. As far as the coaches and FO having faith in the players…I understand there’s a love affair some of you have with Judge but I’ve been listening to that same excuse for 10+ years and our O line has sucked every year but it’s been the worst ever under Gettleman. Nah, I’m not having faith in the coaches or FO getting the O line right until I actually see some results and 10 years of failure is what has caused that.
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Post by IrishMike on Jul 22, 2021 19:43:32 GMT -5
Of course they don’t make decisions based on how they think the media will view it because if they did they might actually have a winning season for once. They march to the beat of their own, out dated, egotistical, broken drum. Perhaps I should have been more clear, when was the last time DG replaced an O lineman he drafted with another player he didn’t draft? Peart was never named the starter for most games and he would be the only exception. Plus, the fact that you somewhat acknowledge how many players have been rotated through this O line under DG and how many he has replaced after being GM for 4 years speaks volumes about his lack of “eye” for good linemen which was supposed to be his forte. I seriously doubt there has been as many linemen rotated through an O line on any team in the past 4 years, that wasn’t due to retirement or serious injury, as there has been with the Giants under DG. Even more impressive than that is with all the changes he’s made, he’s managed to keep them rated as one of the worst O lines in the league each year! Bravo Dave, bravo! I agree we need to develop players, we also need to find out what we have at QB. Which is more important, trying to develop a 2nd year O lineman who may or may not suck and have no adequate back ups or have some decent vets and figure out what we have in our rookie QB’s third year while we have 2 first round draft picks next year? I’m going with the latter. Plus, most competent GM’s don’t “develop” and entire O line made up of nothing but 1st or 2nd year players at the same time, that’s ass backwards but it’s also how he built this team so I can’t say I’m surprised. As far as the coaches and FO having faith in the players…I understand there’s a love affair some of you have with Judge but I’ve been listening to that same excuse for 10+ years and our O line has sucked every year but it’s been the worst ever under Gettleman. Nah, I’m not having faith in the coaches or FO getting the O line right until I actually see some results and 10 years of failure is what has caused that. Sorry man I can't take you serious if that is how you honestly think.
We are not keeping players because we are scared to admit a mistake. That's ridiculous, especially when you are talking about mid round draft picks.
Why is it so hard to just admit this team (Judge included) thinks more of these OL than you do? Why is it some deep conspiracy theory.
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Post by GameTime on Jul 22, 2021 19:47:13 GMT -5
I just wont get all flipped out with what they did or didnt do. The time for that is over for me. Now I am focused on watching these guys progress forward. I am not naïve to think the OL will be a solid unit just because its a year later. They have lots of work and need some luck too. You obviously have more control than me. If this wasn’t DG’s 4th year trying to fix his number one priority, if this wasn’t such a big year for our QB, if this wasn’t the entire line and were just one or two players, if they weren’t ranked last or near it in the entire league last year, if we didn’t just invest heavily in WR’s, if we picked up better FA’s and drafted an O lineman…than I wouldn’t be near as emotional. Everything you mentioned is/was true. New life and new year vinnie!! Its going to work out!! Been there done that with the angry Giants fan and being emotional. A few holes in the walls to show for it. Now I try not to get so bent so often.
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Post by vinnie on Jul 22, 2021 19:57:00 GMT -5
Of course they don’t make decisions based on how they think the media will view it because if they did they might actually have a winning season for once. They march to the beat of their own, out dated, egotistical, broken drum. Perhaps I should have been more clear, when was the last time DG replaced an O lineman he drafted with another player he didn’t draft? Peart was never named the starter for most games and he would be the only exception. Plus, the fact that you somewhat acknowledge how many players have been rotated through this O line under DG and how many he has replaced after being GM for 4 years speaks volumes about his lack of “eye” for good linemen which was supposed to be his forte. I seriously doubt there has been as many linemen rotated through an O line on any team in the past 4 years, that wasn’t due to retirement or serious injury, as there has been with the Giants under DG. Even more impressive than that is with all the changes he’s made, he’s managed to keep them rated as one of the worst O lines in the league each year! Bravo Dave, bravo! I agree we need to develop players, we also need to find out what we have at QB. Which is more important, trying to develop a 2nd year O lineman who may or may not suck and have no adequate back ups or have some decent vets and figure out what we have in our rookie QB’s third year while we have 2 first round draft picks next year? I’m going with the latter. Plus, most competent GM’s don’t “develop” and entire O line made up of nothing but 1st or 2nd year players at the same time, that’s ass backwards but it’s also how he built this team so I can’t say I’m surprised. As far as the coaches and FO having faith in the players…I understand there’s a love affair some of you have with Judge but I’ve been listening to that same excuse for 10+ years and our O line has sucked every year but it’s been the worst ever under Gettleman. Nah, I’m not having faith in the coaches or FO getting the O line right until I actually see some results and 10 years of failure is what has caused that. Sorry man I can't take you serious if that is how you honestly think.
We are not keeping players because we are scared to admit a mistake. That's ridiculous, especially when you are talking about mid round draft picks.
Why is it so hard to just admit this team (Judge included) thinks more of these OL than you do? Why is it some deep conspiracy theory.
I did admit Judge thinks more of these O linemen then I do, that’s obvious or they wouldn’t be on the team. What I said is that I don’t have faith in the O line just because Judge and the FO do. I’m quite sure every O line we’ve had over the past 10 years, and more specifically the past 4 years under DG, had the coaches support but now I’m supposed to think “well Joe Judge likes them so they must be good enough”? Fool me once, fool me twice….as I said, until I see positive results on the field (which I hope will happen) I’m not going to trust the worst line in the league last year will improve as much as some of you do and I think it’s foolish to not have better competition in camp. If we’re not keeping players because we’re scared to admit we made a mistake then why did we keep Flowers? Why is Solder still on the team? I don’t care if they were under contract or not, aren’t we supposed to be putting the best players on the field regardless of pay or age or who drafted them or where they were drafted? As I said, even if you’re right (which I honestly think there’s a little bit of truth to what both of us think) then Dave Gettleman going through as many O linemen as he has and having one of the worst O lines in the league every year since he’s been here shows how bad he actually is at evaluating O line talent. There’s zero excuse for having a line this bad this far into his career as GM, especially when he publicly announced it was his first priority.
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