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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 12, 2022 15:26:50 GMT -5
Per John: "My Brother, spends most of his time doing evaluations on College Players his grades go into our system and he participates in his draft" ummm that's called influence "Chris Mara has 0 authority"... yeah okay. This is not good
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 12, 2022 15:27:59 GMT -5
I'm hoping they restructure the whole front office I'm not opposed to Chris having a title and some part time scouting or something. I have also read one rthe years he is pretty solid scout. all i know is the same ppl holding titles of power and influence have been around for this whole shit show year after year. To much of a coincidence for me. I'll wait to see who they get as GM and what happens this offseason, but John Mara and his crew do not get the benefit of the doubt from me at all at this point. I like Mara the man... I haven't liked Mara and his croonies running the giants to this point though either. exactly
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 15:31:37 GMT -5
Per John: "My Brother, spends most of his time doing evaluations on College Players his grades go into our system and he participates in his draft" ummm that's called influence "Chris Mara has 0 authority"... yeah okay. This is not good Beyond not good….these are buffoons owning this team. I’m assuming he believes we’re buying his double talk….or just doesn’t understand the words that are coming out of his own mouth.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 12, 2022 15:37:32 GMT -5
Beyond not good….these are buffoons owning this team. I’m assuming he believes we’re buying his double talk….or just doesn’t understand the words that are coming out of his own mouth. I think he now knows we are all on to him and is on notice that now all blame goes his way if this losing continues He can deflect all he wants but the evidence is overwhelming since 2012 The constant-Fredo and the power structure as is We will see how the process shakes out If none of the names that we see want the job it's obvious
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 12, 2022 15:39:25 GMT -5
shame the media didn't ask John who Chris wanted during the Barkley draft. Then we'll know if the GM makes the call.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 12, 2022 15:39:35 GMT -5
He also missed the part that Chris Mara has 0 authority and it is the GM and coach who have the power. Now maybe they need a productive person with some say in that spot that Chris occupies. I think that's exactly where we’re headed. Certain members of the media want to feed fan frenzy with the Chris Mara "runs the team" theory. Maybe years ago Chris had more of a role, but that has been marginalized. He'll always have a title, but that doesn't mean he has any power. That sounded nothing like what little Pat tweeted, sounded like he got sick of saying the same thing over and over and what he did say sounds like what most of the beat writers that are rational are writing getting info from outside sources.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 12, 2022 15:41:21 GMT -5
shame the media didn't ask John who Chris wanted during the Barkley draft. Then we'll know if the GM makes the call. They don't let people like us (who would have the balls to ask such a question)in at these press conferences
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 12, 2022 15:48:16 GMT -5
I'm hoping they restructure the whole front office I'm not opposed to Chris having a title and some part time scouting or something. I have also read one rthe years he is pretty solid scout. all i know is the same ppl holding titles of power and influence have been around for this whole shit show year after year. To much of a coincidence for me. I'll wait to see who they get as GM and what happens this offseason, but John Mara and his crew do not get the benefit of the doubt from me at all at this point. I like Mara the man... I haven't liked Mara and his croonies running the giants to this point though either. He won't get it from anybody not even me, but I'm not jumping to conclusions right away tho they are doing the right thing with the search spreading a wide net. I think the interview may have been short because they have another interview with candidate this afternoon. I think some of the vet guys like Dorsey and Pioli are gonna get a shot. Pioli maybe not tho they are interviewing guys he hired and trained like Ossenfort and few others I believe. interested to see how much change. At this point I believe him when he says the GM and Coach always had the most say.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2022 15:51:23 GMT -5
Per John: "My Brother, spends most of his time doing evaluations on College Players his grades go into our system and he participates in his draft" ummm that's called influence "Chris Mara has 0 authority"... yeah okay. That's called "evaluation", not authority. Grading players is very different from offering advice or making decisions on major acquisitions. Which has been the claim here about Chris Mara.
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Post by ocgiant on Jan 12, 2022 15:56:18 GMT -5
Without a GM it's all on Mara to answer the media's questions and he is not going to say much at all about the state of affairs with the Giant's org.
He's going to leave it to the new GM where the media focus will be on the new GM and the Giant's plan going forward plus hiring a new HC.
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Post by BigBlueDog42 on Jan 12, 2022 15:56:35 GMT -5
Beyond not good….these are buffoons owning this team. I’m assuming he believes we’re buying his double talk….or just doesn’t understand the words that are coming out of his own mouth. I think he now knows we are all on to him and is on notice that now all blame goes his way if this losing continues He can deflect all he wants but the evidence is overwhelming since 2012 The constant-Fredo and the power structure as is We will see how the process shakes out If none of the names that we see want the job it's obvious The bad decisions started way before 2012 thats when the nucleus of those 2 sperbowl teams reached their expiration date. You don't just get bad overnight it takes 3 to 4 years of bad drafts before those guys lose their prime, it lines up with what I always say 2008 to 2009 was the beginning of the end. now Chris Mara might have something to do with the last 9 years. look back at 2008 and 2009 I don't even remember who they drafted but I will bet they had gotten 1 or 2 players out of each of them.
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Post by Roswell on Jan 12, 2022 15:56:58 GMT -5
shame the media didn't ask John who Chris wanted during the Barkley draft. Then we'll know if the GM makes the call. They don't let people like us (who would have the balls to ask such a question)in at these press conferences We pretty much know the answer to that question. Mara hired DG because he thought he could wring one more trophy out of Eli. DG was willing to go that route. He drafted Barkley because coming out of college, he was the best player at any position in the draft. Barkley delivered as a rookie but the defense and the Oline didn't. And consequently neither did Eli. It is what it is.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 16:00:04 GMT -5
Per John: "My Brother, spends most of his time doing evaluations on College Players his grades go into our system and he participates in his draft" ummm that's called influence "Chris Mara has 0 authority"... yeah okay. That's called "evaluation", not authority. Grading players is very different from offering advice or making decisions on major acquisitions. Which has been the claim here about Chris Mara. all i know is whatever he's doing or lack of doing and whatever affect it's having.. hasn't resulted in much good. again, they do not get the benefit of the doubt from me any longer. They've all been holding high positions in the org and the org has done nothing but fail. If its them or not, doesn't matter to me anymore, bc all I know is this franchise is a shit show and its the same people that still linger that are the only constants. Also being johns brother, entering players into their system that the hc and gm look at with grades by said player, participating in the draft and having a say is definitely influence. Influence has a subtle way of being authoritative.. not saying thats been the case, be he certainly has influence.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 12, 2022 16:04:33 GMT -5
Pat Leonard? lol.
The beat writer on the top of my do-not-listen-to list is Pat.
John said there was little benefit to letting Dave go early because all the top candidates are employed by other teams. Was Pat not listening? Maybe that was his dog barking?
My thoughts on pat are with you. However, "John Mara vehemently pushes back against his family as the problem" Oh really, than what the **** has it been Mr. Mara? The good ol boys are always the same in this equation. BUT i do like where mara's head is at finally allowing them the have full hands on the rooster with no other input except there's at least he says.
What I like about all this is that the discussion about Chris and any other family member has now become a topic that Mara and Tisch have to answer to. Prior to this no one, except those of us on this board, have been talking about this subject and now it's out there and the only way it's going away is for them to start winning.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2022 16:06:22 GMT -5
That's called "evaluation", not authority. Grading players is very different from offering advice or making decisions on major acquisitions. Which has been the claim here about Chris Mara. all i know is whatever he's doing and whatever affect it's having.. hasn't been good. again, they do not get the benefit of the doubt from me any longer. They've all been holding high positions in the org and the org has done nothing but fail. If its them or not, doesn't matter to me anymore, bc all I know is this franchise is a shit show and its the same people that still linger that are the only constants. Is that that hard to believe that Gettleman and Judge were behind the bad personnel decisions? They were just both fired. I don't know why people are obsessed with family conspiracies when the answers are right there.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 16:08:17 GMT -5
all i know is whatever he's doing and whatever affect it's having.. hasn't been good. again, they do not get the benefit of the doubt from me any longer. They've all been holding high positions in the org and the org has done nothing but fail. If its them or not, doesn't matter to me anymore, bc all I know is this franchise is a shit show and its the same people that still linger that are the only constants. Is that that hard to believe that Gettleman and Judge were behind the bad personnel decisions? They were just both fired. I don't know why people are obsessed with family conspiracies when the answers are right there. I'm not saying its a conspiracy. They are involved in the process. It is not much of a leap to assume they were bad with personnel decisions (gettlemen/judge/shurmur) as its not much of a leap to question people in high positions within the franchise who have remained in posistions of power throughout this cycle of shitty football. whatever they are doing or not doing has been a problem. Hence why we are here. This problem has been going on since coughlin/reese and it started before the last sb. The team was on a downward trend they never recovered from.. but only certain ppl remain.
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Post by Roosevelt on Jan 12, 2022 16:12:39 GMT -5
Pat Leonard? lol.
The beat writer on the top of my do-not-listen-to list is Pat.
John said there was little benefit to letting Dave go early because all the top candidates are employed by other teams. Was Pat not listening? Maybe that was his dog barking?
He also missed the part that Chris Mara has 0 authority and it is the GM and coach who have the power. Now maybe they need a productive person with some say in that spot that Chris occupies.
Chris has a scouting background, and I have no problem with him in that role knowing the GM and HC get final say. And I do believe John gave it to us straight. When the Giants drafted Saquon it was very obvious that Chris was not on board with that pick, but clearly Dave and Pat got their guy.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 16:15:59 GMT -5
the one thing I will say about chris as I do not know him personally and I just assume.. but, Banks did speak highly of him and that means something to me as a fan, bc I do respect most of what Banks says.. not all, but most. However,
something stinks in the FO and it has for a long time and its not just John, maybe its chris maybe its not, but its more than just John. Has to be.
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Modog
Special Teams
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Post by Modog on Jan 12, 2022 16:20:11 GMT -5
shame the media didn't ask John who Chris wanted during the Barkley draft. Then we'll know if the GM makes the call. Im more concerned about who wanted Daniel Jones
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Modog
Special Teams
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Post by Modog on Jan 12, 2022 16:21:39 GMT -5
He also missed the part that Chris Mara has 0 authority and it is the GM and coach who have the power. Now maybe they need a productive person with some say in that spot that Chris occupies.
Chris has a scouting background, and I have no problem with him in that role knowing the GM and HC get final say. And I do believe John gave it to us straight. When the Giants drafted Saquon it was very obvious that Chris was not on board with that pick, but clearly Dave and Pat got their guy.
All speculation we will never know. Only if someone from the inside starts talking. But Giants are usually tight lip
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mendy
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Post by mendy on Jan 12, 2022 16:26:12 GMT -5
Mara says F you to the media ,LOL,good.
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nyg2
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Post by nyg2 on Jan 12, 2022 16:26:26 GMT -5
I think it's time that John is finally honest with himself if Chris wasn't his brother he would've been fired when JR was...
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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2022 16:27:50 GMT -5
Is that that hard to believe that Gettleman and Judge were behind the bad personnel decisions? They were just both fired. I don't know why people are obsessed with family conspiracies when the answers are right there. I'm not saying its a conspiracy. They are involved in the process. It is not much of a leap to assume they were bad with personnel decisions (gettlemen/judge/shurmur) as its not much of a leap to question people in high positions within the franchise who have remained in posistions of power throughout this cycle of shitty football. whatever they are doing or not doing has been a problem. Hence why we are here. This problem has been going on since coughlin/reese and it started before the last sb. The team was on a downward trend they never recovered from.. but only certain ppl remain. Did you watch the press conference? If not, all the questions about the hierarchy of power, Chris and Tim's roles, are explained in detail. If you don't believe JM, that's fair too.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 16:39:33 GMT -5
I'm not saying its a conspiracy. They are involved in the process. It is not much of a leap to assume they were bad with personnel decisions (gettlemen/judge/shurmur) as its not much of a leap to question people in high positions within the franchise who have remained in posistions of power throughout this cycle of shitty football. whatever they are doing or not doing has been a problem. Hence why we are here. This problem has been going on since coughlin/reese and it started before the last sb. The team was on a downward trend they never recovered from.. but only certain ppl remain. Did you watch the press conference? If not, all the questions about the hierarchy of power, Chris and Tim's roles, are explained in detail. If you don't believe JM, that's fair too. Of course I did. What was it he said that indicated there was no influence by any of these people? "My Brother, spends most of his time doing evaluations on College Players his grades go into our system and he participates in his draft" that's influence. He also has a "say". He mentioned the HC/GM are the most important people in the building.. I guess that's why they "rushed" the hiring last time. And have fired 3 hcs in how many years.. This is deeper than gm/hc.. lets hope this time around its different.
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 16:43:18 GMT -5
He also missed the part that Chris Mara has 0 authority and it is the GM and coach who have the power. Now maybe they need a productive person with some say in that spot that Chris occupies. exactly then what the **** is he doing as Vice President of Player Evaluation and why is someone better qualified not doing it? Therein lies the rub. Little will change. They will not hire a GM who is not in lock step with what Chris Mara and the other Mara cronies want. Any hopes of that not being the case is foolishness.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 12, 2022 16:46:07 GMT -5
exactly then what the **** is he doing as Vice President of Player Evaluation and why is someone better qualified not doing it? Therein lies the rub. Little will change. They will not hire a GM who is not in lock step with what Chris Mara and the other Mara cronies want. Any hopes of that not being the case is foolishness. Thus 75% of these candidates are gone..especially the good ones We get a leftover,4 more years of ancient prehistoric Giants way gooberball
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 16:46:47 GMT -5
Therein lies the rub. Little will change. They will not hire a GM who is not in lock step with what Chris Mara and the other Mara cronies want. Any hopes of that not being the case is foolishness. Thus 75% of these candidates are gone..especially the good ones We get a leftover,4 more years of ancient prehistoric Giants way gooberball Exactly. Might as well just promote Abrams.
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Post by giantlegacy on Jan 12, 2022 16:46:51 GMT -5
Mara says F you to the media ,LOL,good. So you are OK with the status quote of the past 8 years?
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te88
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Post by te88 on Jan 12, 2022 16:47:37 GMT -5
Unfortunately for passive/casual fans who make in my mind would make up a large portion of any teams fan base is always quick to jump to the loose ends, bc they are whats obvious. Fans are always going to cry about HCs/GMs first bc its what they know. What they don't know is the scouting department, the people in charge of that depeartment, the owners, and all the other good stuff hidden behind the scenes There will be heat on the new hc and GM season two if it looks bad, just the way it is, but we can only hope mara has learned from his prior lessons. It appears hes going in the right direction with the gm.. well have to see how it all shakes out. This could easily become a business school case in organizational change management. He just keeps trading out two pieces over and over with the same result for literally 6 years. I obviously hope he makes a great choice at GM, stays out of the way, and gives him the time an protection he needs to fix this. But is the scouting dependent good enough. If not, how long to fix it? Are his family members contributing to the management of this team or just supporting his opinions? Sounds like he doesn’t take criticism well. I just don’t have any confidence in this scenario. The fan base is too impatient and he’s not strong enough at talent evaluation and/or sticking with a plan long enough in the face of fan pressure (McAdoo, Shurmer, Garrett, Judge). Every GM candidate that interviews should make a point of saying “I respect Chris and Tim but my intention would not be to retain them as part of my personnel department. I believe it gives the wrong perception and has potential to put me in awkward and inappropriate situations with you as a non-family member. As family they’ll always enjoy access and a personal relationship with you that I will never have and this could lead to problems if we disagree on a particular course of action regarding a coach, player or organizational decision.”
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 16:48:59 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Chris Mara has a reputation around the league as a skilled evaluator. He literally started a company around it that most NFL teams used.
We suck, and it sucks. But only here could the owner get on camera, admit everything was his fault, say he doesn't expect anyone to trust that he's going to get it right, but still will try and do so to earn back trust, hire an outside GM like we've all be asking for while not rushing the process, fire the coach no one wanted to keep, and have the GM hire the coach (with a 99.9 percent chance of approving the hire rec.).....and be mad about it.
Don't really know what else the guy could do.
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