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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 16:50:24 GMT -5
exactly then what the **** is he doing as Vice President of Player Evaluation and why is someone better qualified not doing it? Therein lies the rub. Little will change. They will not hire a GM who is not in lock step with what Chris Mara and the other Mara cronies want. Any hopes of that not being the case is foolishness. If this were true, none of these guys would interview. Honestly, people if you're that much in the deep end of this family conspiracy, why would you watch the Giants...if you're convinced nothing will change until the family sells the team. It's really just getting wild up in here.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 16:50:39 GMT -5
Mara says F you to the media ,LOL,good. yeah really stook it to em... meanwhile his franchise has been one of the worst in recent memory.. way to go john.
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mattmeyerbud
Special Teams
in a ball in a dark room crying
Posts: 217
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Post by mattmeyerbud on Jan 12, 2022 16:51:11 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Chris Mara has a reputation around the league as a skilled evaluator. He literally started a company around it that most NFL teams used. We suck, and it sucks. But only here could the owner get on camera, admit everything was his fault, say he doesn't expect anyone to trust that he's going to get it right, but still will try and do so to earn back trust, hire an outside GM like we've all be asking for while not rushing the process, fire the coach no one wanted to keep, and have the GM hire the coach (with a 99.9 percent chance of approving the hire rec.).....and be mad about it. Don't really know what else the guy could do. Really? What company? PFF?
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 16:51:57 GMT -5
Therein lies the rub. Little will change. They will not hire a GM who is not in lock step with what Chris Mara and the other Mara cronies want. Any hopes of that not being the case is foolishness. If this were true, none of these guys would interview. Honestly, people if you're that much in the deep end of this family conspiracy, why would you watch the Giants...if you're convinced nothing will change until the family sells the team. It's really just getting wild up in here. where's the conspiracy, these guys are in important football operations positions.. lol they own some of this shit show.. you ppl blow my mind.
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 16:53:16 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Chris Mara has a reputation around the league as a skilled evaluator. He literally started a company around it that most NFL teams used. We suck, and it sucks. But only here could the owner get on camera, admit everything was his fault, say he doesn't expect anyone to trust that he's going to get it right, but still will try and do so to earn back trust, hire an outside GM like we've all be asking for while not rushing the process, fire the coach no one wanted to keep, and have the GM hire the coach (with a 99.9 percent chance of approving the hire rec.).....and be mad about it. Don't really know what else the guy could do Reassign his brother and other family members to roles not related to personnel or scouting or agree to let the GM to be hired to do it. If that does not happen nothing will change and no GM worth a damn will come on board.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 12, 2022 16:55:30 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Chris Mara has a reputation around the league as a skilled evaluator. He literally started a company around it that most NFL teams used. We suck, and it sucks. But only here could the owner get on camera, admit everything was his fault, say he doesn't expect anyone to trust that he's going to get it right, but still will try and do so to earn back trust, hire an outside GM like we've all be asking for while not rushing the process, fire the coach no one wanted to keep, and have the GM hire the coach (with a 99.9 percent chance of approving the hire rec.).....and be mad about it. Don't really know what else the guy could do Reassign his brother and other family members to roles not related to personnel or scouting. If that does not happen nothing will change and no GM worth a damn will come on board. The whole "Chris Mara factor" has been way overblown. This failure is on Dave, Joe and John Mara.
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Modog
Special Teams
Posts: 1,198
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Post by Modog on Jan 12, 2022 16:56:35 GMT -5
He says a perception has been created by the Media but then says his newphew Tim is one of the most respected person in the building and the coaches, front office staff and General managers GO TO HIM for advice on players.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 16:57:39 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Chris Mara has a reputation around the league as a skilled evaluator. He literally started a company around it that most NFL teams used. We suck, and it sucks. But only here could the owner get on camera, admit everything was his fault, say he doesn't expect anyone to trust that he's going to get it right, but still will try and do so to earn back trust, hire an outside GM like we've all be asking for while not rushing the process, fire the coach no one wanted to keep, and have the GM hire the coach (with a 99.9 percent chance of approving the hire rec.).....and be mad about it. Don't really know what else the guy could do. Really? What company? PFF? It was called prorate, NFL scouting service widely used. This is awhile ago, I'm just saying, I'm fairly certain the guy's reputation around the league is as a good evaluator. Sounds like what he does with the Giants is offer some perspective on players, and in our GM search, perspective on some candidates because he's a good evaluator. None of this is even open to the possibility that he's talented, it just focuses on the last name being Mara and assumes the worst. But no one assumed this when we won games. If his family name means so much, he should have this influence no matter what position he's in. But this "theory" says it only starts when he got is new position...which of course was our 9-7 2012 year "where it all started going wrong." It's the classic conspiracy theory set up, I believe called apophenia where we make connections between actually unrelated things based on feelings or coincidences.
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 16:57:52 GMT -5
Reassign his brother and other family members to roles not related to personnel or scouting. If that does not happen nothing will change and no GM worth a damn will come on board. The whole "Chris Mara factor" has been way overblown. This failure is on Dave, Joe and John Mara. Why would an outside person take the GM job here if they cannot place their people in the key personnel and scouting roles currently occupied by Chris and the other Mara cronies. It's a lack of control that can only end in disputes and in the end utter and complete failure just like we have seen for years.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 12, 2022 16:58:03 GMT -5
ugh, this isnt surprising to any of us but pretty awful to hear. we can throw stones at all the coaches, roster. and personal of this team, but at its heart its long reeked of mara's uncertainty and ignorance with this teams operation Hearing he pushed back hard at that question bothers me so so so much. I had a little optimism that change was in the air. He’s just selling change. Buddy, if you’re not willing to turn your lens on yourself and the FO you’ve put together, then you’re being willfully ignorant. people at the top rarely ever find any fault with themselves, they look in the mirror and see someone no body else sees...
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 16:59:40 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Chris Mara has a reputation around the league as a skilled evaluator. He literally started a company around it that most NFL teams used. We suck, and it sucks. But only here could the owner get on camera, admit everything was his fault, say he doesn't expect anyone to trust that he's going to get it right, but still will try and do so to earn back trust, hire an outside GM like we've all be asking for while not rushing the process, fire the coach no one wanted to keep, and have the GM hire the coach (with a 99.9 percent chance of approving the hire rec.).....and be mad about it. Don't really know what else the guy could do Reassign his brother and other family members to roles not related to personnel or scouting or agree to let the GM to be hired to do it. If that does not happen nothing will change and no GM worth a damn will come on board. I don't know what you want. The owner of the team literally just said the GM and the head coach make the decisions, and they need to agree. They have all authority, final authority, etc. He also said, no one in his family has extra influence, they are in those positions because they are their chosen professions and have good perspectives. No part of their responsibility has final say over anything (which is obviously intentional because it would look like nepotism). Doesn't mean they don't have valuable insight.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 16:59:50 GMT -5
Reassign his brother and other family members to roles not related to personnel or scouting. If that does not happen nothing will change and no GM worth a damn will come on board. The whole "Chris Mara factor" has been way overblown. This failure is on Dave, Joe and John Mara. This very well may be true, but it does not exonerate any of these guys. They've all failed in one way or another or the giants would not have been this bad of an organization.. the dates all way back to the end of coughlin/reese. This didn't just start with Dave and Joe
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Post by Roswell on Jan 12, 2022 16:59:56 GMT -5
This could easily become a business school case in organizational change management. He just keeps trading out two pieces over and over with the same result for literally 6 years. I obviously hope he makes a great choice at GM, stays out of the way, and gives him the time an protection he needs to fix this. But is the scouting dependent good enough. If not, how long to fix it? Are his family members contributing to the management of this team or just supporting his opinions? Sounds like he doesn’t take criticism well. I just don’t have any confidence in this scenario. The fan base is too impatient and he’s not strong enough at talent evaluation and/or sticking with a plan long enough in the face of fan pressure (McAdoo, Shurmer, Garrett, Judge). Every GM candidate that interviews should make a point of saying “I respect Chris and Tim but my intention would not be to retain them as part of my personnel department. I believe it gives the wrong perception and has potential to put me in awkward and inappropriate situations with you as a non-family member. As family they’ll always enjoy access and a personal relationship with you that I will never have and this could lead to problems if we disagree on a particular course of action regarding a coach, player or organizational decision.” In theory, I agree with this. In reality, it would lead to the shortest interview ever.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 12, 2022 17:00:35 GMT -5
The whole "Chris Mara factor" has been way overblown. This failure is on Dave, Joe and John Mara. Why would an outside person take the GM job here if they cannot place their people in the key personnel and scouting roles currently occupied by Chris and the other Mara cronies. Chris Mara will have NO bearing on a potential GM's decision to come here. Joe Judge would have, and despite your scolding of us who believed he would be fired, he is gone now so that impediment is gone.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 17:01:58 GMT -5
Per John: "My Brother, spends most of his time doing evaluations on College Players his grades go into our system and he participates in his draft" ummm that's called influence "Chris Mara has 0 authority"... yeah okay. It's one grade. Do you realize how many people put grades into the system?
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 17:02:35 GMT -5
Reassign his brother and other family members to roles not related to personnel or scouting or agree to let the GM to be hired to do it. If that does not happen nothing will change and no GM worth a damn will come on board. I don't know what you want. The owner of the team literally just said the GM and the head coach make the decisions, and they need to agree. They have all authority, final authority, etc. He also said, no one in his family has extra influence, they are in those positions because they are their chosen professions and have good perspectives. No part of their responsibility has final say over anything (which is obviously intentional because it would look like nepotism). Doesn't mean they don't have valuable insight. Their evaluation skills are worthless more than they have been worthy. Why would I take any grades they put in the system seriously as a GM. However if that's the folks giving the grades the GM is hamstrung because he is forbidden from replacing the owner's brother and family members. If you think a GM will have that control your in la la land.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 17:03:54 GMT -5
ugh, this isnt surprising to any of us but pretty awful to hear. we can throw stones at all the coaches, roster. and personal of this team, but at its heart its long reeked of mara's uncertainty and ignorance with this teams operation Hearing he pushed back hard at that question bothers me so so so much. I had a little optimism that change was in the air. He’s just selling change. Buddy, if you’re not willing to turn your lens on yourself and the FO you’ve put together, then you’re being willfully ignorant. I don't think he pushed back hard, at all. He answered the first question directly, calmly, and seemingly with transparency. Video is up on Youtube. Start at the 8-minute mark. Anyone seeing something else is looking for it. He was then asked the question two more times because the media didn't like the answer. They were fishing for a family conspiracy and didn't get it.
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Post by cdngfan on Jan 12, 2022 17:03:57 GMT -5
Hearing he pushed back hard at that question bothers me so so so much. I had a little optimism that change was in the air. He’s just selling change. Buddy, if you’re not willing to turn your lens on yourself and the FO you’ve put together, then you’re being willfully ignorant. people at the top rarely ever find any fault with themselves, they look in the mirror and see someone no body else sees... Definitely that’s a trait of bad leaders. But there’s a lot of amazing leaders out there that invite constructive feedback. It’s just a relatively modern occurrence (last 30 yrs).
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 17:05:44 GMT -5
Why would an outside person take the GM job here if they cannot place their people in the key personnel and scouting roles currently occupied by Chris and the other Mara cronies. Chris Mara will have NO bearing on a potential GM's decision to come here. Joe Judge would have, and despite your scolding of us who believed he would be fired, he is gone now so that impediment is gone. I ate my crow on Judge. I posted my crow reply yesterday happily. So you feel the GM they'll hire can fire Chris Mara and the other cronies in that department if he wants and John Mara will be fine with it. I thought you were a realist before an optimist!
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 17:05:55 GMT -5
Per John: "My Brother, spends most of his time doing evaluations on College Players his grades go into our system and he participates in his draft" ummm that's called influence "Chris Mara has 0 authority"... yeah okay. It's one grade. Do you realize how many people put grades into the system? Oh yeah... silly me. Great retort. Bravo! No influence at all. I mean shit, its like why even have a Vice President of Player Evaluation then.. So many grades are being put in by scouts, tim, the other chris, mr mara himself, the gm, the media, the fans... This defenitly exonerates a man whos been the VP of one of the most importnat things to a football organization that has largely failed over the past ten years in the department.. well, bc not Chris, or anyone in that department, but really just bc of dave gettlemen and jerry reese/. btw i'm not saying this is chris.. i'm just saying something stinks in the fo and its not just john. GM search appears like its being done right this time.. and not "rushed" which is ironic considering mara said the most important ppl are the GM/HC.. funny he'd rush to hire considering that statment. but yeah..
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 17:06:15 GMT -5
I don't know what you want. The owner of the team literally just said the GM and the head coach make the decisions, and they need to agree. They have all authority, final authority, etc. He also said, no one in his family has extra influence, they are in those positions because they are their chosen professions and have good perspectives. No part of their responsibility has final say over anything (which is obviously intentional because it would look like nepotism). Doesn't mean they don't have valuable insight. There evaluation skills are worthless. Why would I take any grades they put in the system seriously as a GM. However if that's the folks giving the grades the GM is hamstrung because he is forbidden from replacing the owner's brother and family members. If you think a GM will have that control your in la la land. Why are they worthless haha? That is based on absolutely nothing. Chris Mara has been scouting for like 40 years...you know there is a chance he's good at it. No one gets picked without the GM and coach agreeing. Two most important people in the org, how it's always been since George and Bill. Don't know why that's hard for people. Why would they have randomly changed it after winning 4 superbowls with that framework? Come 2012, John Mara decided "my brother should run this from the shadows, he's actually terrible, but he's my brother and I'm gonna listen to him above all else, and if he says it than I'll overrule my GM and head coach." What seems more likely? That or, you know, what was said in the presser.
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Post by Jomo on Jan 12, 2022 17:08:14 GMT -5
Well even this judge thing has been a bit clunky, and continues to be today, the normal rules are a bit skewed with the giants. to me, it all just speaks to mara's wishy washy-ness. Yes, like why does it take 2 meetings to fire a guy. They wasted a valuable day. More importantly, they look indecisive.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 17:08:54 GMT -5
This whole thing doesn't need a boogeyman. John mara has hired a bad GM and three bad head coaches. The process seems to be different, so that could be a good sign. Maybe, because of that, all the candidates are good enough we luck into a good one because he still sucks at evaluating talent, who knows. And that has a positive trickle down effect.
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 17:09:13 GMT -5
There evaluation skills are worthless. Why would I take any grades they put in the system seriously as a GM. However if that's the folks giving the grades the GM is hamstrung because he is forbidden from replacing the owner's brother and family members. If you think a GM will have that control your in la la land. Why are they worthless haha? That is based on absolutely nothing. Chris Mara has been scouting for like 40 years...you know there is a chance he's good at it. No one gets picked without the GM and coach agreeing. Two most important people in the org, how it's always been since George and Bill. Don't know why that's hard for people. Why would they have randomly changed it after winning 4 superbowls with that framework? Come 2012, John Mara decided "my brother should run this from the shadows, he's actually terrible, but he's my brother and I'm gonna listen to him above all else, and if he says it than I'll overrule my GM and head coach." What seems more likely? That or, you know, what was said in the presser. If you have not noticed since he took over the good evaluations have been few and far between. Is he the only voice on things, no obviously not but John will not allow Chris and the others to be disregarded nor will John allow Chris and the cronies to be reassigned or replaced.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 12, 2022 17:09:54 GMT -5
Chris Mara will have NO bearing on a potential GM's decision to come here. Joe Judge would have, and despite your scolding of us who believed he would be fired, he is gone now so that impediment is gone. I ate my crow on Judge. I posted my crow reply yesterday happily. So you feel the GM they'll hire can fire Chris Mara and the other cronies in that department if he wants and John Mara will be fine with it. I thought you were a realist before an optimist! I didn't see it. Did you apologize for the hurtful things you said to me?
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 17:11:19 GMT -5
I ate my crow on Judge. I posted my crow reply yesterday happily. So you feel the GM they'll hire can fire Chris Mara and the other cronies in that department if he wants and John Mara will be fine with it. I thought you were a realist before an optimist! I didn't see it. Did you apologize for the hurtful things you said to me? I was not trying to be hurtful in any way, not intentionally for sure. I just felt it would take some kind of miracle for it to happen. If I truly offended you, I apologize.
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 12, 2022 17:11:48 GMT -5
I didn't see it. Did you apologize for the hurtful things you said to me? I was not trying to be hurtful in any way, not intentionally for sure. I just felt it would take some kind of miracle for it to happen. If I truly offended you, I apologize. I was joking.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 17:12:38 GMT -5
This whole thing doesn't need a boogeyman. John mara has hired a bad GM and three bad head coaches. The process seems to be different, so that could be a good sign. Maybe, because of that, all the candidates are good enough we luck into a good one because he still sucks at evaluating talent, who knows. And that has a positive trickle down effect. Oh please you're not one of the worst orgnizations in football for this long unless you have a serious problem internally. This impact stems more from just a bad GM and three bad HCs... Why was gettlemen hired in the first place? Why did it back fire? Here's a hint.. it wasn't just him pat and joe
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 17:13:52 GMT -5
I was not trying to be hurtful in any way, not intentionally for sure. I just felt it would take some kind of miracle for it to happen. If I truly offended you, I apologize. I was joking. thegiantsboard.proboards.com/post/619129/threadHere's my crow
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 12, 2022 17:14:01 GMT -5
Mara seems to be a classic example of every top executive I've ever seen, everything that goes wrong is always someone elses fault, I know I've said this before but Mara is such a classic example..
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