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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2022 17:16:44 GMT -5
Did you watch the press conference? If not, all the questions about the hierarchy of power, Chris and Tim's roles, are explained in detail. If you don't believe JM, that's fair too. Of course I did. What was it he said that indicated there was no influence by any of these people? "My Brother, spends most of his time doing evaluations on College Players his grades go into our system and he participates in his draft" that's influence. He also has a "say". He mentioned the HC/GM are the most important people in the building.. I guess that's why they "rushed" the hiring last time. And have fired 3 hcs in how many years.. This is deeper than gm/hc.. lets hope this time around its different. "The only two voices at the end of the day that matter are the GM and head coach". Exact quote.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 17:17:07 GMT -5
Why are they worthless haha? That is based on absolutely nothing. Chris Mara has been scouting for like 40 years...you know there is a chance he's good at it. No one gets picked without the GM and coach agreeing. Two most important people in the org, how it's always been since George and Bill. Don't know why that's hard for people. Why would they have randomly changed it after winning 4 superbowls with that framework? Come 2012, John Mara decided "my brother should run this from the shadows, he's actually terrible, but he's my brother and I'm gonna listen to him above all else, and if he says it than I'll overrule my GM and head coach." What seems more likely? That or, you know, what was said in the presser. If you have not noticed since he took over the good evaluations have been few and far between. Is he the only voice on things, no obviously not but John will not allow Chris and the others to be disregarded nor will John allow Chris and the cronies to be reassigned or replaced. It's a reach. There is no logical connection. You're taking a series of results and applying them where you want. You think John Mara wants to lose this much? Did you watch that press conference? de-fea-ted. Said "it's the most embarassed he has ever been." He's been around the team his entire life. If his brother were really the problem, you don't think they would have had that discussion by now? Or wait, where are we moving the goal posts to next? "Chris has just kept convincing him!"
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 17:18:06 GMT -5
This whole thing doesn't need a boogeyman. John mara has hired a bad GM and three bad head coaches. The process seems to be different, so that could be a good sign. Maybe, because of that, all the candidates are good enough we luck into a good one because he still sucks at evaluating talent, who knows. And that has a positive trickle down effect. Oh please you're not one of the worst orgnizations in football for this long unless you have a serious problem internally. This impact stems more from just a bad GM and three bad HCs... Why was gettlemen hired in the first place? Why did it back fire? Here's a hint.. it wasn't just him pat and joe How is what I just described not the most serious internal problem you could have haha!?! We can't hire the two most important positions on the team well.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 17:18:55 GMT -5
Mara seems to be a classic example of every top executive I've ever seen, everything that goes wrong is always someone elses fault, I know I've said this before but Mara is such a classic example.. He literally took responsibility for everything in the press conference and said he expects no fans to trust him to get it right, and it's the most embarrassed he's ever been. He called it all his fault.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 17:19:50 GMT -5
Of course I did. What was it he said that indicated there was no influence by any of these people? "My Brother, spends most of his time doing evaluations on College Players his grades go into our system and he participates in his draft" that's influence. He also has a "say". He mentioned the HC/GM are the most important people in the building.. I guess that's why they "rushed" the hiring last time. And have fired 3 hcs in how many years.. This is deeper than gm/hc.. lets hope this time around its different. "The only two voices at the end of the day that matter are the GM and head coach". Exact quote. LMAO.. blind leading the blind.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 12, 2022 17:20:46 GMT -5
Mara seems to be a classic example of every top executive I've ever seen, everything that goes wrong is always someone elses fault, I know I've said this before but Mara is such a classic example.. He literally took responsibility for everything in the press conference and said he expects no fans to trust him to get it right, and it's the most embarrassed he's ever been. He called it all his fault. I didn't see the presser but if he said that then I'm proud of him, something I haven't been for a long time...
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Post by Morehead State on Jan 12, 2022 17:21:17 GMT -5
Mara seems to be a classic example of every top executive I've ever seen, everything that goes wrong is always someone elses fault, I know I've said this before but Mara is such a classic example.. He literally took responsibility for everything in the press conference and said he expects no fans to trust him to get it right, and it's the most embarrassed he's ever been. He called it all his fault. As I said before....He looked like a completely broken man. I think he was at least honest in that press conference.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 17:22:57 GMT -5
Why are they worthless haha? That is based on absolutely nothing. Chris Mara has been scouting for like 40 years...you know there is a chance he's good at it. No one gets picked without the GM and coach agreeing. Two most important people in the org, how it's always been since George and Bill. Don't know why that's hard for people. Why would they have randomly changed it after winning 4 superbowls with that framework? Come 2012, John Mara decided "my brother should run this from the shadows, he's actually terrible, but he's my brother and I'm gonna listen to him above all else, and if he says it than I'll overrule my GM and head coach." What seems more likely? That or, you know, what was said in the presser. If you have not noticed since he took over the good evaluations have been few and far between. Is he the only voice on things, no obviously not but John will not allow Chris and the others to be disregarded nor will John allow Chris and the cronies to be reassigned or replaced. I could just as easily say our drafts started getting bad when Marc Ross got more power under Reese, and Reese stopped being so hands on with the draft. Have about as much evidence as you do about Chris Mara. That's why the quote: "the only two people with authority that matters is the GM and the head coach is so important." Everything else is input. Sure maybe there are way too many bad inputs in this org...but a new GM will change that. No evidence one is any worse than the other. That's why we blame the GM and the head coach. Because they have the final say and that's what we see. We can also blame the owner because he hires those guys. None of this is more complicated than that. But if your successful GM gets worse at his job, your GM replacement sucks, and you hire 3 bad head coaches in a row and they together with the GM build a bad roster and have lots of gameplanning or gameday errors because they aren't good coaches...you're not going to be good. We haven't hit on a GM or coach since Jerry Reese ascended to the position in 2007.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 17:24:37 GMT -5
He literally took responsibility for everything in the press conference and said he expects no fans to trust him to get it right, and it's the most embarrassed he's ever been. He called it all his fault. I didn't see the presser but if he said that then I'm proud of him, something I haven't been for a long time... So was I. But to me, he's always been that honest. He just has done a bad job of hiring the two most important roles for this org. And the 2017-2018 GM search was a farce. And not in those words, but he also pointed out how that was rushed last time. The man is recognizing his mistakes and putting them all out there for us to see. that's as much as we can ask for. Now can he do better this time...who freaking knows. I'm encouraged by our GM candidate list.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2022 17:25:11 GMT -5
Hearing he pushed back hard at that question bothers me so so so much. I had a little optimism that change was in the air. He’s just selling change. Buddy, if you’re not willing to turn your lens on yourself and the FO you’ve put together, then you’re being willfully ignorant. I don't think he pushed back hard, at all. He answered the first question directly, calmly, and seemingly with transparency. Video is up on Youtube. Start at the 8-minute mark. Anyone seeing something else is looking for it. He was then asked the question two more times because the media didn't like the answer. They were fishing for a family conspiracy and didn't get it. The line was questions were terrible and a waste of everyone's time. Most of the reporters were looking for clickbait headlines. They asked 3 times in a row the same question about Chris Mara. John couldn't have been any clearer about the fact that Chris Mara has no power in the organization. It wasn't until the last question that a reporter finally asked the only important question and the one everyone wants to know.... "Will the new GM have control over hiring the head coach?"
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 17:26:22 GMT -5
If you have not noticed since he took over the good evaluations have been few and far between. Is he the only voice on things, no obviously not but John will not allow Chris and the others to be disregarded nor will John allow Chris and the cronies to be reassigned or replaced. It's a reach. There is no logical connection. You're taking a series of results and applying them where you want. You think John Mara wants to lose this much? Did you watch that press conference? de-fea-ted. Said "it's the most embarassed he has ever been." He's been around the team his entire life. If his brother were really the problem, you don't think they would have had that discussion by now? Or wait, where are we moving the goal posts to next? "Chris has just kept convincing him!" There was a time where 2 Mara family members hated each others guts. Tim Mara Jr and his uncle Wellington. You think John wants to recreate that nightmare for he and his brother Chris? If Chris speaks John listens and he won't rock that boat no matter what he said to the media which as far as I'm concerned was mixed signals and wishy washy.
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Post by repeatchamps on Jan 12, 2022 17:30:59 GMT -5
I don't think he pushed back hard, at all. He answered the first question directly, calmly, and seemingly with transparency. Video is up on Youtube. Start at the 8-minute mark. Anyone seeing something else is looking for it. He was then asked the question two more times because the media didn't like the answer. They were fishing for a family conspiracy and didn't get it. The line was questions were terrible and a waste of everyone's time. Most of the reporters were looking for clickbait headlines. They asked 3 times in a row the same question about Chris Mara. John couldn't have been any clearer about the fact that Chris Mara has no power in the organization. It wasn't until the last question that a reporter finally asked the only important question and the one everyone wants to know.... "Will the new GM have control over hiring the head coach?" And the answer was yes with ownership approval. Sadly I have lost all hope that the right things will be done.
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 12, 2022 17:34:37 GMT -5
He literally took responsibility for everything in the press conference and said he expects no fans to trust him to get it right, and it's the most embarrassed he's ever been. He called it all his fault. As I said before....He looked like a completely broken man. I think he was at least honest in that press conference. I just watched the presser and he did seem very humble and honest..
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Post by snyder55 on Jan 12, 2022 17:36:34 GMT -5
Mara seems to be a classic example of every top executive I've ever seen, everything that goes wrong is always someone elses fault, I know I've said this before but Mara is such a classic example.. Congrats on your first post non-Judge related post in months. On to your text target. You politely put me on ignore if you don’t like the truth. I don't have to put you on ignore, just stay away from anything I write here because I'm not interested in your opinion and then you can save your self some time...
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 12, 2022 17:37:20 GMT -5
Congrats on your first post non-Judge related post in months. On to your text target. You politely put me on ignore if you don’t like the truth. I don't have to put you on ignore, just stay away from anything I write here because I'm not interested in your opinion and then you can save your self some time... i deleted it. You can’t help yourself. Find somebody to complain about. Boring as all hell.
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Post by Jomo on Jan 12, 2022 17:48:11 GMT -5
Mara seems to be a classic example of every top executive I've ever seen, everything that goes wrong is always someone elses fault, I know I've said this before but Mara is such a classic example.. He a classic example of a bad one but by my experiences he is not typical CEO. The good ones have strategic vision, courage to lead and confident enough to accept responsibility while repositioning the organization. I have also seen the bad senior executives, most are not CEOs but the next level down.
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Post by imgrate on Jan 12, 2022 17:54:19 GMT -5
I don't have to put you on ignore, just stay away from anything I write here because I'm not interested in your opinion and then you can save your self some time... i deleted it. You can’t help yourself. Find somebody to complain about. Boring as all hell. I mean there's people on this forum that complain about folks in the Giants org. There's people on this forum that complain about people that only complain about folks in the Giants org. There's also people that point out the different types of people on the forum.
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Post by Rangers13 on Jan 12, 2022 17:58:36 GMT -5
i deleted it. You can’t help yourself. Find somebody to complain about. Boring as all hell. I mean there's people on this forum that complain about folks in the Giants org. There's people on this forum that complain about people that only complain about folks in the Giants org. There's also people that point out the different types of people on the forum. some talk about football. Have to sift through the cancel culture to find those posts though.
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Post by jaymas on Jan 12, 2022 18:05:14 GMT -5
It's a reach. There is no logical connection. You're taking a series of results and applying them where you want. You think John Mara wants to lose this much? Did you watch that press conference? de-fea-ted. Said "it's the most embarassed he has ever been." He's been around the team his entire life. If his brother were really the problem, you don't think they would have had that discussion by now? Or wait, where are we moving the goal posts to next? "Chris has just kept convincing him!" There was a time where 2 Mara family members hated each others guts. Tim Mara Jr and his uncle Wellington. You think John wants to recreate that nightmare for he and his brother Chris? If Chris speaks John listens and he won't rock that boat no matter what he said to the media which as far as I'm concerned was mixed signals and wishy washy. We're not going to agree on this. What you're saying here is the same reach as the other stuff. For me I'm seeing a GM search that actually looks comprehensive, and a defeated owner that took 100 percent responsibility for the problems and said he's never been more embarrassed. Really can't ask for more. I hope he gets it right. Recognizing the problems is a big first step.
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Post by Martin on Jan 12, 2022 18:09:45 GMT -5
I will only be convinced with wins not talk about John Mara and his tail between his legs. Time to step back and see if it gets better on the field. None of us can know if this new coming GM/HC team will turn the ship around. There will be negative and positive opinions on this board but IMO the talent evaluation has sucked for 10 years so who ever they pick they have a lot of work to do to make it right. It will take some time to change it to positive.
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Post by DandyDon on Jan 12, 2022 18:37:10 GMT -5
I really don't care about the other family members. JM has been the problem. Let's see if he has truely learned anything and will give the new GM the authority to do his job.
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Post by Martin on Jan 12, 2022 18:49:57 GMT -5
I really don't care about the other family members. JM has been the problem. Let's see if he has truely learned anything and will give the new GM the authority to do his job. He said that the GM and HC are the ones who have the final say unless there are off the field issues. He said this is the way its always been! As you said lets wait because I want to see it not hear it!!
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Post by Fletch842 on Jan 12, 2022 18:56:04 GMT -5
I will only be convinced with wins not talk about John Mara and his tail between his legs. Time to step back and see if it gets better on the field. None of us can know if this new coming GM/HC team will turn the ship around. There will be negative and positive opinions on this board but IMO the talent evaluation has sucked for 10 years so who ever they pick they have a lot of work to do to make it right. It will take some time to change it to positive. well said!!
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 19:05:18 GMT -5
I will only be convinced with wins not talk about John Mara and his tail between his legs. Time to step back and see if it gets better on the field. None of us can know if this new coming GM/HC team will turn the ship around. There will be negative and positive opinions on this board but IMO the talent evaluation has sucked for 10 years so who ever they pick they have a lot of work to do to make it right. It will take some time to change it to positive. at the end of the day that's all that matters. Fact is, if this org didn't royally **** up so many times in recent years, none of us would have to talk about the "problems" we see with it. Hopefully this new gm hire and his HC and their program are the start of winning. Can't take much more of this shitty ****ing football. The team fielded this past season wasn't even close to NFL standard (the offense) I should say.
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Post by SG88 on Jan 12, 2022 19:10:02 GMT -5
I will only be convinced with wins not talk about John Mara and his tail between his legs. Time to step back and see if it gets better on the field. None of us can know if this new coming GM/HC team will turn the ship around. There will be negative and positive opinions on this board but IMO the talent evaluation has sucked for 10 years so who ever they pick they have a lot of work to do to make it right. It will take some time to change it to positive. at the end of the day that's all that matters. Fact is, if this org didn't royally **** up so many times in recent years, none of us would have to talk about the "problems" we see with it. Hopefully this new gm hire and his HC and their program are the start of winning. Can't take much more of this shitty ****ing football. The team fielded this past season wasn't even close to NFL standard (the offense) I should say. As long as there is a real plan of attack, I am willing to be patient. Even if we don't see it in the win column initially, I want to know what kind of team they are. One of the issues with the Giants of the past decade is that there appeared to be no plan and the teams didn't have an identity.
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mendy
Starter
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Post by mendy on Jan 12, 2022 19:13:46 GMT -5
Mara says F you to the media ,LOL,good. So you are OK with the status quote of the past 8 years? Where did I say that? The fan base wanted Gettlemen and Judge gone, they wanted the new GM to hire the Coach all are being done as the fans wanted . For the fan base to cry saying it's the same old Giants becuase an Owner doesn't publicly fire his brother or relinquish his position is Ludacris . Again this pound of flesh the fans are demanding will not happen and they need to stop .Nothing I have said means I'm happy with the way things have gone but DG is gone JJ is gone and Ownership is looking outside the Giants family for the next GM, fans need to stop the crying.
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Post by McCherry on Jan 12, 2022 19:13:50 GMT -5
I really don't care about the other family members. JM has been the problem. Let's see if he has truely learned anything and will give the new GM the authority to do his job.That's all that matters to me. For years, we've been saying we should go outside for a GM and give them control. He’s doing that, I don't see the sense in continuing to complain and harp on mistakes of the past.
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Post by allnygin on Jan 12, 2022 19:16:10 GMT -5
at the end of the day that's all that matters. Fact is, if this org didn't royally **** up so many times in recent years, none of us would have to talk about the "problems" we see with it. Hopefully this new gm hire and his HC and their program are the start of winning. Can't take much more of this shitty ****ing football. The team fielded this past season wasn't even close to NFL standard (the offense) I should say. As long as there is a real plan of attack, I am willing to be patient. Even if we don't see it in the win column initially, I want to know what kind of team they are. One of the issues with the Giants of the past decade is that there appeared to be no plan and the teams didn't have an identity. I"m with you on that. I'm optimistic Mara may have learned some lessons here. Excited to see who they can bring in as GM and see how this all unfolds.
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Post by Martin on Jan 12, 2022 19:28:53 GMT -5
I really don't care about the other family members. JM has been the problem. Let's see if he has truely learned anything and will give the new GM the authority to do his job.That's all that matters to me. For years, we've been saying we should go outside for a GM and give them control. He’s doing that, I don't see the sense in continuing to complain and harp on mistakes of the past. You need to go back into the past in order to fix the future. Now as far as harping on them to the point of exhaustion yes I agree. But you can't make the same mistake twice. As fans many including myself will complain and after this last season we have all the right!
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Post by cdngfan on Jan 12, 2022 19:32:15 GMT -5
I will only be convinced with wins not talk about John Mara and his tail between his legs. Time to step back and see if it gets better on the field. None of us can know if this new coming GM/HC team will turn the ship around. There will be negative and positive opinions on this board but IMO the talent evaluation has sucked for 10 years so who ever they pick they have a lot of work to do to make it right. It will take some time to change it to positive. Same. I’ve been listening to the talk for 10 years. So much that I don’t believe them, because who could? Some fans appear excited. I envy them. It’s a wide search for a GM, because he’s received nothing but criticism for his pattern of narrow searches. But this is one of the only public decisions he makes that can be evaluated. How many more does he make that we can’t see that are just as bad (or worse)? That’s the problem. Zero confidence in his ability or leadership until he proves otherwise.
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