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Post by cdngfan on Aug 30, 2022 15:32:53 GMT -5
The KG thing has been over simplified. To me, this FO and HC aren’t going to take any real heat for keeping KG and seeing what he can contribute this year. In fact it’s in keeping with what they said when they came here. Players and staff will have a chance. The opportunity cost is not giving a UDFA a roster spot. UDFAs lose spots all year every year. There is an emotional push to cut him, there’s very little upside to cutting him, and like the OP pointed out, there is a chance he can contribute this year in a way he hasn’t yet. The truth is cutting KG next year makes alot more sense. It spreads dead money over two years. It’s an actual cap savings to cut him next year. Cutting him to keep someone like Bachman feels good, but Bachman will most likely be on our PS anyway. And there’s a tonne of Bachman’s out there. We can grab the next one. Not entirely true.. If they cut him this year they will have a 10 million cap hit for 23 but if they wait and cut him next year it will be 14 million.. Just according to sportstrac. If he’s cut today (post June 1st), it’s $21 million dead cap hit today ($0 savings relative to his playing cap hit), and $10.2 mill in 23). If he’s released after June 1st next year there’s a $7.9 hit in 2023 ($13.5 savings compared to keeping him), and a $6.8 hit in 2024. All this to say that cutting him today provides more of a “take that!” emotional benefit than anything strategic. He may be better on the field this year than he was last year or this pre season. It’s a lot better for us if he turns into something better than he is right now. The cost of finding out is pretty low. .
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Post by GameTime on Aug 30, 2022 15:33:49 GMT -5
There are plenty of guys who are 6'3 big and who can catch...I can't think of much that separates Golladay from those guys. Other guys his size are faster and run better routes. Seems like Golladay is giving a solid effort for the most part though...I definitely think he is better than what he showed last year. Still has size, hands, ball skills....he's just never going to match the expectations of an 80 million dollar player. 99% of the FAs who are tops at their positions are always over paid and never meet the expectations of their paycheck. We need a bunch of 1st downs and 10 TDs from him. Plus he better block on screens and not be bitch about it......lol
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Post by Fletch842 on Aug 30, 2022 15:37:33 GMT -5
Honestly I'd rather Jones fail going out all guns blazing as opposed to the meekness of the past 2 years Will also show what kind of offense we will have and kind of qb they would hypothetically want to loom for in 3023 Well if Mara is still around in 3023 we'll be definitely looking for a new QB in the Robot Football League (RFL) Archie Manning comes out in a few years. He'll save us if we haven't found redemption before then...
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Aug 30, 2022 16:04:00 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, He sucks…..Carl Banks said as much.
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Post by imgrate on Aug 30, 2022 16:10:47 GMT -5
The KG thing has been over simplified. To me, this FO and HC aren’t going to take any real heat for keeping KG and seeing what he can contribute this year. In fact it’s in keeping with what they said when they came here. Players and staff will have a chance. The opportunity cost is not giving a UDFA a roster spot. UDFAs lose spots all year every year. There is an emotional push to cut him, there’s very little upside to cutting him, and like the OP pointed out, there is a chance he can contribute this year in a way he hasn’t yet. The truth is cutting KG next year makes alot more sense. It spreads dead money over two years. It’s an actual cap savings to cut him next year. Cutting him to keep someone like Bachman feels good, but Bachman will most likely be on our PS anyway. And there’s a tonne of Bachman’s out there. We can grab the next one. Not entirely true.. If they cut him this year they will have a 10 million cap hit for 23 but if they wait and cut him next year it will be 14 million.. Oh hay someone’s been reading my posts
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 30, 2022 16:11:16 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, He sucks…..Carl Banks said as much. You're a southerner....I'm a northerner......I outrank you.
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 30, 2022 16:12:23 GMT -5
Will also show what kind of offense we will have and kind of qb they would hypothetically want to loom for in 3023Talk about a long rebuild! Oops
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 30, 2022 16:13:02 GMT -5
KG is the new EE here... Always have to have one. Unfortunately. Much more costly though.
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Post by Blue Hulk on Aug 30, 2022 16:20:24 GMT -5
He's just a placeholder for Collin Johnson
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 30, 2022 17:02:15 GMT -5
KG is the new EE here... Always have to have one. Unfortunately. Much more costly though. I'd be thrilled if KG put up EE's catch (46)-clutchrate (63%) and TD (3) number from last season.
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 30, 2022 18:02:53 GMT -5
KG is the new EE here... Always have to have one. Unfortunately. Much more costly though. I'd be thrilled if KG put up EE's catch (46)-clutchrate (63%) and TD (3) number from last season. Clutchrate? Is that a PFF stat or something?
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 30, 2022 18:07:49 GMT -5
I'd be thrilled if KG put up EE's catch (46)-clutchrate (63%) and TD (3) number from last season. Clutchrate? Is that a PFF stat or something? No its on a few stats sites. I think its a bad name. All it is is the percentage of balls you catch that are thrown to you. Catches divided by Targets. KG had the 5th lowest in the NFL last season. He was targeted 76 times. He caught 37 balls. That is a 48.7% clutch rate. I think they should call it catch rate.
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Aug 30, 2022 18:10:28 GMT -5
If the only scheme Golladay fits into is "throw it to the covered receiver" then that's even more of a reason he no longer belongs in the NFL. I hope Jones doesn't just start chucking it to him. We have a lot of small fast guys who can get separation and YAC. Golladay can collect his retirement on the bench. We'd be a bette team for it. He won’t….Golladay will not be playing that much and when he does he is never open. Oaches don’t care about how much a player earns for salary. Dabol will play the best WRs which leaves Golladay out. He will start at the beginning of the season…..then quickly be moved to the bench where he belongs.
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Post by vbgiantsfan on Aug 30, 2022 18:12:29 GMT -5
If the only scheme Golladay fits into is "throw it to the covered receiver" then that's even more of a reason he no longer belongs in the NFL. I hope Jones doesn't just start chucking it to him. We have a lot of small fast guys who can get separation and YAC. Golladay can collect his retirement on the bench. We'd be a bette team for it. He won’t….Golladay will not be playing that much and when he does he is never open. If our coaching staff is as good as we hope they are, Golladay shouldn't see much of the field. Hope you're right.
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Aug 30, 2022 18:13:58 GMT -5
He won’t….Golladay will not be playing that much and when he does he is never open. If our coaching staff is as good as we hope they are, Golladay shouldn't see much of the field. Hope you're right. Coaches play to win….Golladay starts week 1……then will quickly be relegated to the pines where he belongs.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 30, 2022 18:14:51 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, KG was targeted 76 times in 14 games last season. That was the most targets on the team. He came away with 37 catches (48.7%)
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southerner
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Post by southerner on Aug 30, 2022 18:21:02 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, KG was targeted 76 times in 14 games last season. That was the most targets on the team. He came away with 37 catches (48.7%) Helen Keller would have a better percentage than that.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 30, 2022 18:23:20 GMT -5
KG was targeted 76 times in 14 games last season. That was the most targets on the team. He came away with 37 catches (48.7%) Helen Keller would have a better percentage than that. Is she available? How much would she want in a contract?
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Post by TheAnalyst on Aug 30, 2022 18:27:22 GMT -5
Clutchrate? Is that a PFF stat or something? No its on a few stats sites. I think its a bad name. All it is is the percentage of balls you catch that are thrown to you. Catches divided by Targets. KG had the 5th lowest in the NFL last season. He was targeted 76 times. He caught 37 balls. That is a 48.7% clutch rate. I think they should call it catch rate. That's definitely catch rate. And that's pretty low.
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Post by DJones19 on Aug 30, 2022 18:38:12 GMT -5
Oddly I feel more confident in KG than I do in Toney.
It's a tough sport...but as of now I feel Toney could get hurt stepping out of bed in the morning...it's frustrating because you can see the potential.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 30, 2022 18:40:10 GMT -5
Oddly I feel more confident in KG than I do in Toney. It's a tough sport...but as of now I feel Toney could get hurt stepping out of bed in the morning...it's frustrating because you can see the potential. I have more faith in KT, Shep, Wandale, and Sills. Slaton and KG are a toss up for me. I felt like CJ was beating KG out for the big WR role.
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Post by Morehead State on Aug 30, 2022 18:43:36 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, KG was targeted 76 times in 14 games last season. That was the most targets on the team. He came away with 37 catches (48.7%) He had crappy QB's throwing to him.
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Post by kerryisdaman on Aug 30, 2022 18:51:27 GMT -5
KG was targeted 76 times in 14 games last season. That was the most targets on the team. He came away with 37 catches (48.7%) He had crappy QB's throwing to him. Who was throwing the ball to KT 68.4% Shep 67.9% Engram 63%
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Post by giantlegacy on Aug 30, 2022 19:04:18 GMT -5
Oddly I feel more confident in KG than I do in Toney. It's a tough sport...but as of now I feel Toney could get hurt stepping out of bed in the morning...it's frustrating because you can see the potential. Unfortunately this is a problem when your body is so jacked like his is
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Post by dvision on Aug 30, 2022 19:21:46 GMT -5
KG is the new EE here... Always have to have one. Unfortunately. Much more costly though. KG hasn't helped us one bit by virtue of never getting open or being oft-injured but it always felt like EE was working for the opponents the way his follies were either turnovers or drops on critical downs... lol. Hopefully KG will never be costly in that manner...
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Post by GameTime on Aug 30, 2022 19:28:09 GMT -5
No reason he cant have a big year
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Post by DandyDon on Aug 30, 2022 19:36:59 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, I don't know if DJ and golloday will have a good season, but I have posted in other threads that he was afraid to throw to him in contested situations for fear of throwing a pick. I think there's validity to that theory. I also think that the constantly bad ol has DJ looking for an open wr more than a big covered guy. I do think he has the arm to throw into those contested situations, but not the confidence. Just MO.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2022 19:49:00 GMT -5
If the only scheme Golladay fits into is "throw it to the covered receiver" then that's even more of a reason he no longer belongs in the NFL. I hope Jones doesn't just start chucking it to him. We have a lot of small fast guys who can get separation and YAC. Golladay can collect his retirement on the bench. We'd be a bette team for it. In the NFL, if you're covered one on one....you're open.I think DJ needs to learn this with KG. Not true The window is smaller, but receivers do get open all the time. Don't compare the NFL to the air raids and spreads of college, we create separation by route running or play calling all the time. Zone and man....watch a little more film and you will see open receivers in the NFL every play, and at times, WIDE open. Golladay also had arm talent, as in a rocket arm ball being thrown to him at Detroit....Jones has at best an average arm, and the pre season games showcased that...short passes to open receivers created by a system. If Jones is going deep, he's going to the receiver open created by a play drawn up...basic to more complex, depending upon coverage. He is not forcing the ball downfield to Golladay....vbgiantsfan is spot on with his assessment. If Jones is throwing into a covered receiver he is not reading the field correctly. Golladay is NOT the type of receiver for Jones, nor this coaching staff. He might help in the red zone, deep in the red zone...but Jones will continue to be a system QB until those vertical reads open themselves up, and he recognizes the coverage...something I personally believe he will not be able to do, and why we will have a new QB next year, one with more arm talent.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 30, 2022 19:51:30 GMT -5
OK...Just a theory. Everyone is all over Kenny Golladay for having a poor season in 2021. But KG has never been a guy who creates separation. He's a guy who makes contested catches....which is a great quality in the NFL. Well DJ clearly has been coached to avoid turnovers since his rookie year. KG not open? Don't throw it to him. But in 2022 it seems he'll be coached to make those throws. My "hope" is that he will become comfortable with KG amid coverage. So my conclusion is that KG will be a great weapon for us this year. Am I rationalizing? Is this wishful thinking? Probably, but it helps me sleep at night, Sleep well, I hope you are right. I saw him fight for a few balls last year but he often pulled off the route. I am not enough of a football coach or psychiatrist to sort it all out. I am betting there won't be an epiphany this year but it would be great if it happened.
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Post by Jomo on Aug 30, 2022 19:53:17 GMT -5
Not entirely true.. If they cut him this year they will have a 10 million cap hit for 23 but if they wait and cut him next year it will be 14 million.. Just according to sportstrac. If he’s cut today (post June 1st), it’s $21 million dead cap hit today ($0 savings relative to his playing cap hit), and $10.2 mill in 23). If he’s released after June 1st next year there’s a $7.9 hit in 2023 ($13.5 savings compared to keeping him), and a $6.8 hit in 2024. All this to say that cutting him today provides more of a “take that!” emotional benefit than anything strategic. He may be better on the field this year than he was last year or this pre season. It’s a lot better for us if he turns into something better than he is right now. The cost of finding out is pretty low. . We don't need "emotional benefits". That is what losing organizations do. Let's see what happens. Let's see if he has any pride in his what he does for a living.
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